olimar matchup stage counterpicks: anything you want to fill in not already filled on

[Sky Pirate]

Jigglypuff
Best Neutral-Yoshi's Island
Worst Neutral-Final Destination

Samus
Best Neutral-Final Destination

Bowser
Best Neutral-Battlefield

Discuss. If anyone wants reasons, request them and I'll give them later. Too tired now.

 

[Paranormalsin]

Jigglypuff
Best Neutral-Yoshi's Island
Worst Neutral-Final Destination

Samus
Best Neutral-Final Destination

Bowser
Best Neutral-Battlefield

Discuss. If anyone wants reasons, request them and I'll give them later. Too tired now.

bowsers is quite obvious.
puff i dont understand.
and yeah, samus is just bad, go ZSS and move up the T-list....

 

[Plasma Pikmin]

Yeah, I don't really understand either how Jiggz stages work out like that.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Sorry, mixed those up.
Best Neutral- Final Destination
Worst Neutral-Yoshi's Island

FD is the best because it doesn't allow "under the stage planking" and no platforms limits Jigg's aerial game somewhat.

On second thought, disregard Yoshi's Island. SV is much worse.

And yeah, Samus is really bad but she can't be disregarded completely. Some people REALLY love using her.....

 

[Paranormalsin]

Sorry, mixed those up.
Best Neutral- Final Destination
Worst Neutral-Yoshi's Island

FD is the best because it doesn't allow "under the stage planking" and no platforms limits Jigg's aerial game somewhat.

On second thought, disregard Yoshi's Island. SV is much worse.

And yeah, Samus is really bad but she can't be disregarded completely. Some people REALLY love using her.....

now im really confused, are these best picks AGAINST these characters or best stages for them. cause im sure jigs will do better on BF than any other neutral.

and also bowsers best neutral is BF. so it either contradicts what you have or the puff one does. i dont know, please help with your wording.

 

[ScAtt77]

If anyone doesn't mind explaining, why does Olimar do so good on Luigi's mansion?

 

[Paranormalsin]

If anyone doesn't mind explaining, why does Olimar do so good on Luigi's mansion?

its easy, u-smash is sooo fast, so quick, grab into uthrow into usmash into usmash into usmash and then dsmash....not hard. seeing as grabs are sooo easy to get with olimar, hes always a usmash away from 60+ damage. assuming the opponent doesnt tech anyway. if they tech the cieling, another usmash, if they tech the ground another grab. simple. :D

also, its not luigis mansion., sir, its president olimars white house!

 

[DtJ Hilt]

not to mention the fact that olimar is more difficult to gimp with the ceilings and whatnot. DI'ing up into the ceiling instead of going under it will keep you alive forever. And against certain characters olimar can take advantage of the fact that his pikmin travel through the pillars while other characters' projectiles dont.

Dabuz: If you'd like I could tidy up the charts, and add an extra column to each of them. I could send them to you in a pm or post them in here, either way.

 

[Sky Pirate]

now im really confused, are these best picks AGAINST these characters or best stages for them. cause im sure jigs will do better on BF than any other neutral.

and also bowsers best neutral is BF. so it either contradicts what you have or the puff one does. i dont know, please help with your wording.

Now I'm kind of confused about what you're saying, but I'll give it a shot. ^^;
They're the best and worst AGAINST those characters.
Please explain why you think Battlefield would be better than Smashville for Jiggs.

Ignore what I said about Bowser. I was basing it off of a battle I had where my opponent's clawhopping was hindered by the platforms.

 

[Dabuz]

not to mention the fact that olimar is more difficult to gimp with the ceilings and whatnot. DI'ing up into the ceiling instead of going under it will keep you alive forever. And against certain characters olimar can take advantage of the fact that his pikmin travel through the pillars while other characters' projectiles dont.

Dabuz: If you'd like I could tidy up the charts, and add an extra column to each of them. I could send them to you in a pm or post them in here, either way.

yeah...that would be nice, like i said i really don't have the time or ability to update right now...just fix it up/ add new column and ill put stages in

 

[DtJ Hilt]

So you want "third best counterpick" and "third worst counterpick" in the second and third charts respectively, right? What about the first chart? third best neutral? Or worst neutral?

 

[Paranormalsin]

Now I'm kind of confused about what you're saying, but I'll give it a shot. ^^;
They're the best and worst AGAINST those characters.
Please explain why you think Battlefield would be better than Smashville for Jiggs.

Ignore what I said about Bowser. I was basing it off of a battle I had where my opponent's clawhopping was hindered by the platforms.

my reasoning is that BF has both plats for jigs to move around with and shorter sides, she kills way earlier with WoP or stage spikes. lets face it, jigs can not "hang" with the cast when it comes to ground game. i see it as overall better than smashville where her opponent can out spam her, out ground game her and there is only one platform to work with and the sides are way further out.

now regarding the statement about clawhopping being hindered by platforms. youd be suprised what bowser can do invloving plats. when i get my friend to play some serious matches against me with bowser instead of diddy i will show you what i mean.

 

[Dabuz]

So you want "third best counterpick" and "third worst counterpick" in the second and third charts respectively, right? What about the first chart? third best neutral? Or worst neutral?

yeah, make for neutrals "worst neutral" then make it alternative best/ worse cp (mainly for ones where you can't really say what the best/ worst cp is

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Character           Best Neutral        Second Best Neutral      Third Best Neutral

Bowser              -                   -                        -                  
Captain Falcon      -                   -                        -
Diddy Kong          Battlefield         Yoshi's island           -
Donkey Kong         -                   -                        -
Falco               Battlefield         -                        -
Fox                 -                   -                        -
Ganondorf           Battlefield         -                        -
Ice Climbers        Battlefield         -                        -
Ike                 Battlefield         -                        -
Jigglypuff          -                   -                        -
King DeDeDe         Final Destination   Battlefield              -
Kirby               battlefield         -                        -
Link                Battlefield         -                        -
Lucario             Final destination   -                        -
Lucas               Final Destination   -                        -
Luigi               Final Destination   -                        -
Mario               Yoshi's island(B)   -                        -
Marth               Final Destination   -                        -
Meta Knight         Lylat               Battlefield              -
Mr. Game & Watch    Yoshi's Island (B)  -                        -
Ness                Battlefield         -                        -
Peach               Yoshi's Island (B)  -                        -
Pikachu             Lylat               Battlefield              -
Pit                 Battlefield         -                        -
Pokemon Trainer     Final Destination   -                        -
R.O.B.              Battlefield         -                        -
Samus               -                   -                        -
Sheik               Final Destination   -                        -
Snake               Final Destination   Battlefield              -
Sonic               Final Destination   -                        -
Toon Link           -                   -                        -
Wario               Yoshi's Island      Final Destination        -
Wolf                Lylat Cruise        Battlefield              -
Yoshi               Lylat Cruise        -                        -
Zelda               Final Destination   -                        -
Zelda/Shiek         -                   -                        -
Zero Suit Samus     Final Destination   -                        -

Character           Best Counterpick    Second Counterpick         
Bowser              Luigi's Mansion     -
Captain Falcon      Luigi's Mansion     -
Diddy Kong          Norfair             Luigi's Mansion
Donkey Kong         Lylat Cruise        -
Falco               Battlefield         Luigi's mansion
Fox                 Luigi's Mansion     -
Ganondorf           Luigi's Mansion     Norfair
Ice Climbers        Norfair             Battlefield
Ike                 Luigi's Mansion     -
Jigglypuff          Luigi's Mansion     -
King DeDeDe         Luigi's Mansion     -
Kirby               Luigi's Mansion     -
Link                Luigi's Mansion     -
Lucario             Halberd             -
Lucas               Norfair             Yoshi's Island (B)
Luigi               Luigi's mansion     Halberd
Mario               Pokemon Stadium 1   Lylat
Marth               Luigi's Mansion     Halberd
Meta Knight         Pokemon Stadium 1   Lylat
Mr. Game & Watch    -                   -
Ness                -                   -
Peach               -                   -
Pikachu             Lylat               Luigi mansion
Pit                 Luigi's Mansion     -
Pokemon Trainer     Luigi's Mansion     Final Destination
R.O.B.              Luigi's mansion     Battlefield
Samus               Luigi's Mansion     -
Sheik               Final Destination   -
Snake               Luigi's Mansion     -
Sonic               Norfair             Luigi mansion
Toon Link           Luigi's Mansion     -
Wario               Luigi's Mansion     Frigate orpheon
Wolf                Luigi's Mansion     Lylat Cruise
Yoshi               Lylat Cruise        -
Zelda               Luigi's Mansion     -
Zelda/Shiek         Luigi's Mansion     -
Zero Suit Samus     Final Destination   -

haracter           Worst Counterpick   Second Worst Counterpick      -


Bowser              Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Captain Falcon      Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Diddy Kong          Final destination   -                             
Donkey Kong         Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Falco               Rainbow Cruise      Jungle Japes                             
Fox                 Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Ganondorf           Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Ice Climbers        Final Destination   Rainbow Cruise                             
Ike                 Pirate Ship         Rainbow Cruise                             
Jigglypuff          Frigate Orpheon     Rainbow Cruise                             
King DeDeDe         Rainbow Cruise      Jungle japes                             
Kirby               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Link                Rainbow Cruise      -                                                          
Lucario             Jungle Japes        Frigate orpheon                             
Lucas               Rainbow Cruise      -                                                          
Luigi               Rainbow Cruise      Battlefield                             
Mario               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Marth               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Meta Knight         Rainbow Cruise      Luigi's Mansion                             
Mr. Game & Watch    Rainbow Cruise      Norfair                             
Ness                Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Peach               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Pikachu             Rainbow Cruise      Delphino Plaza                             
Pit                 Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Pokemon Trainer     Rainbow Cruise      -                             
R.O.B.              Rainbow Cruise      Frigate Orpheon                             
Samus               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Sheik               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Snake               Rainbow Cruise      Battlefield                             
Sonic               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Toon Link           Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Wario               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Wolf                Rainbow Cruise      Jungle Japes                             
Yoshi               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Zelda               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Zelda/Shiek         Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Zero Suit Samus     Rainbow Cruise      -

Every two weeks or so give me a list of the stages you'd like to change and i'll edit the chart and either repost it, or edit this post.

 

[Sky Pirate]

my reasoning is that BF has both plats for jigs to move around with and shorter sides, she kills way earlier with WoP or stage spikes. lets face it, jigs can not "hang" with the cast when it comes to ground game. i see it as overall better than smashville where her opponent can out spam her, out ground game her and there is only one platform to work with and the sides are way further out.

now regarding the statement about clawhopping being hindered by platforms. youd be suprised what bowser can do invloving plats. when i get my friend to play some serious matches against me with bowser instead of diddy i will show you what i mean.

Perhaps I'm just inexperienced, but Olimar doesn't exactly need to be "WoP"d to die easily offstage. The opponent just needs to wear out that one jump and grab the edge before he can tether (granted he DOES have a long tether and most attacks send you flying at an upward angle anyway...). Shouldn't Jiggly try to pick a stage with larger boundaries to increase its survivability? It can pretty much come back from anything that doesn't kill it anyway.
And shouldn't Olimar's UpB and Usmash give him superior anti-air on Battlefield? Jiggs can't exactly drill through a platform.

I've never really fought a Bowser that really excels at using platforms to their advantage (except one that tried to block off sections using Fire Breath, but that was still horrible), so if you could get a good video that would be great. The compendium has nothing.
Thank you for organizing and updating that, BTW.

 

[Fino]

I am highly offended by the fact that RC is primarily listed as the worst counterpick for each character... even the likes of bowser >.>


~Fino

 

[Dabuz]

I am highly offended by the fact that RC is primarily listed as the worst counterpick for each character... even the likes of bowser >.>


~Fino

ok, then please tell me a list of who you think should not have worst stage as RC, because i don't feel like going through my reasoning with everyone...even though im starting to thing japes is the worst cp alltogether

hilt: thanks, ill make sure to that whenever i get the chance

 

[Plasma Pikmin]

I always thought that Japes was the worst for most of the characters. RC does have its advantages for Olimar, like early kills on some parts of the stages. Japes is just.......bad. =(

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I don't agree that Japes is the worst stage for olimar against every character though. The best player in our state is a marth main, Xisin. I ran into him in tournament yeterday and although he won the set, I wrecked him on japes :x And I was the one that CP'd it too lol.

You have to be prepared to play really REALLY gay though.

Here's basically what I did. I went to the right platform, and spammed pikmin like crazy. Marth is obviously forced to approach, but that isnt as easy for him as you'd expect. Say he jumps from the middle platform and attempts a fair. I merely ran to the right, and grabbed the ledge. He then had three options

1) Pull back and land back on the middle platform. If he does this, I merely go back to what I was doing before, spamming pikmin.
2) Grab the left ledge of the left platform. I'm then able to pull back from the ledge, throw a pikmin, then regrab without having to tether. there are other ways to get him off using aerials, but it's pikmin dependant and situational on what the marth does off of the ledge
3)Land on the right platform after the aerial. It's obvious what I did if he took this option. I drop from the ledge, use my second jump to uair him from under the platform, then regrab the ledge without having to use tether, allowing me to do this infinitely until he gets the **** off. If he takes this option, he's forced to switch to either option one or two, in which I'll be able to spam more pikmin easily.

But you don't get a kill until like 180%? Just camp your *** off until they're higher than they need to be for a kill. I often dont go for kills until near 200% on japes.

But the water kills you, right?? If you camp the right side well enough, it's extremely difficult for olimar to die. Marth isnt able to space his attacks well to knock you past the blast zone. And if he knocks you into the water, it's extremely easy to live. If you're use to the water, you can usually time your jump out so that you can basically choose which ledge to recover to. The main problem is that once you do recover, you're much more vulnerable to your oppponent.

So if you're not afraid of playing extra gay, and dont care about people hating you and getting pissed, japes really isnt TOO bad for olimar if you're against a character that can't camp you from the middle platform, or get around your planking.

So I... guess i'm kinda encouraging planking :x

 

[Paranormalsin]

I've never really fought a Bowser that really excels at using platforms to their advantage (except one that tried to block off sections using Fire Breath, but that was still horrible), so if you could get a good video that would be great. The compendium has nothing.
Thank you for organizing and updating that, BTW.

hilt and his japes.... /le sigh

anyway, i just told my bowser friend that we will be doing some matches (he mains diddy now with a secondary of bowser) and ill get them uploaded. and youre welcome, took quite some time. :D

 

[Sky Pirate]

That sounds like a somewhat effective method, Hilt.
I would probably get Klaptrap'd every time I tried it, though. XP

 

[Paranormalsin]

That sounds like a somewhat effective method, Hilt.
I would probably get Klaptrap'd every time I tried it, though. XP

its like 8 or so seconds between every clap trap "visit"

 

[Sudai]

Claptrap jumps on the right side at x:x7 and the left side at x:x3 on the timer. Remember that and you should avoid any potential VD.

 

[Fino]

I know for a fact that hilt knows how to play gay
(Remember our last tournament? Or were you too drunk =3)
:X
Needs moar jksies

~Fino

 

[BlackWaltzX]

You can also upair through the -entire stage- of Japes.
This is the first time I'm hearing it's bad for us.

 

[Fino]

You can also upair through the -entire stage- of Japes.
This is the first time I'm hearing it's bad for us.

How do you uair through the middle part?


~Fino

 

[Plasma Pikmin]

I don't feel safe at all UpAiring, I always end up getting in the water or Gatored, but most of the time, it is effective, but we still can't kill on Japes, Usmash takes forever to kill, we can really only use Dsmash, Fsmash, and B/Fthrow to kill. >_>

 

[BlackWaltzX]

Jump out of the water/use second jump.
The killing thing is the same for every character but like.. Ness.

 

[Paranormalsin]

How do you uair through the middle part?


~Fino

im sure he was just referring to the "thickness" of the stage

 

[Sky Pirate]

If I may ask, what makes Battlefield the best neutral against Ike? The Ike I play against (YagamiLight) seems to excel there. He's REALLY jabby.

 

[Dyyne]

Honestly, a lot of the data in this is fairly inaccurate, and was placed there a long long time ago.

The logic behind battlefield is probably that ike is a slow, easily combo'd character, and platforms help with combos. The thing, though, is that ike's massive sword covers so much of the stage, I don't think battlefield would be the best neutral. FD or SV would be, imo.

 

[Aztec Avenger]

Dayum, Olimar hates RC. Although from what I've gathered RC is never on anyone's side.

 

[Sky Pirate]

You just have to tame that ride. Play on it a lot and you'll learn how to use it to your advantage. It's not that bad.

 

[DanGR]

RC is a horrible stage for Oli. It's bad for camping, and it's complete garbage for recovering. It's only good for quick back throw kills at low percents (which won't work on any decent opponent very often), early upsmash kills at the top (which can be avoided if the opponent just runs away during that part), and some obstacles that Oli can throw opponents into for comboing purposes (I'd much rather have a flat stage with some platforms to help combo instead).

The stage is inherently bad for Olimar. >_>

Fino is just... Fino. haha

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Eh, I don't mind the stage too much for certain matchups. But in the majority of them, it's pretty bad. Same goes for Frigate and Japes, imo. And there are a few matchups in which I would possibly CP my opponent to one of the three stage (such as Lucario to RC or Marth to Japes) and actually get somewhat of an advantage. I would put Frigate as a worse stage for olimar than Japes or RC, personally, but I don't see any of the stages completely wrecking Olimar's game (such as, say... Ice Climbers on Norfair, or Pit on Luigi's Mansion). I plan to try the three stages out a lot this weekend at our circuit event. I do not believe the layout messes with Olimar's camping, though.

But defending RC is Fino's job haha. Not really my stage, to be honest. However, expect a few paragraphs on the good things about japes from me after this weekend :D

 

[TEECO]

I dont have to main Olimar to contribute accurate information to these boards right?

RC is a very bad stage for olimar. Being off stage can be a problem on a neutral, but on a constanly moving stage where half of its ledges are ungrabable can really mess Olimar up.

Being a ROB main, I wouldn't hesitate bringing an Olimar here.

 

[Noa.]

TEECO, you being a ROB main, I wouldn't hesitate taking you to Rainbow Cruise. MM $1 at Gigs best 2/3 on rainbow cruise. It's not that bad for Olimar. Or at least me.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

on a constanly moving stage where half of its ledges are ungrabable can really mess Olimar up.

I'm just wondering... why?

I've heard this several times, but to me it doesn't at all seem like a legitimate reason for the stage to be "horrible". Personally, the lack of Olimar having an effective aerial game when compared to most other characters (ROB included), is what makes the stage at all bad for olimar. The only section I can really think of where Olimar's recovery would get ****ed over, to the point in where you'd want to stay the hell away at all costs, is the pendulum phase, the second phase on the right side, away from the walkoffs, where it's easy to get knocked off (however there's often platforms below to SAVE you, if you're careful), and the section right before the pendulum phase. For all other parts, if you're smart, the stage doesn't COMPLETELY ruin olimar. Up Air ***** on the stage. camping against certain characters is more effective, due to their approach options to get around the camp being less effective. It's easy to run from platform to platform and section to section. The top of the stage has walk offs that are good because gimping is pretty much impossible.

Granted, it would be a HORRIBLE choice to fight rob on, and I would definitely ban it in that matchup. So on that point, I agree with you.

 

[Dabuz]

RC is just bad for oli either way, your just...special...i thinkjapes is worse for oli though in matchups like rob though, and frigate is one of olis best stages by far, i normally win when i counterpick it

 

[Dyyne]

How is frigate the best stage? Because you play well on it? That does not support anything, it's only a personal bias. I do **** on lylat, therefore oli blows on it? No. It's not that bad, but it is certainly not one of the best.