Ok, Samuses Metagame is Stale...

[Uffe]

i just know that when us PTs learned how to use nanners against diddy (especially with squirtle who IS better with nanners than diddy) it changed teh match up a lot.

Yeah. When you figure out how to use his Bananas against him, the Diddy Kong main has to think whether he or she wants to use those against you anymore. If they continue to use them and you're able to use them just as effectively against Diddy Kong, then they're better off stopping. It doesn't really change the match up. I mean it might, but I doubt it. It'd just mean you know how to use his tactics against him.

 

[Crystanium]

^ Samus mains are divided on the issue of how to use nanerz vs diddy

some of us insist on fighting WITH them in our hands using b moves, z-air, dash attacks, glide toss -> charge shot stuff, etc..
the rest of us insist that we should throw the banana away and force diddy to have to pull another one out.

That's a false dichotomy on your part, n00b. I use them or throw them out. I'm divided on neither. In fact, you can throw one off if there are two and take the second one.

I agree with both of you probably the most. I think we should all play each other ( I am going to be very little help here) online to see battle styles. if we have numerous battles types our chances of victory rise as we could switch it up at any time and do good with different styles.

Not really. Samus is not equivalent to the rest of the characters, therefore fighting more Samus' to pick up different styles are not going to help. It's like the CPUs picking up what you do, but not knowing when to use what they've picked up from you.

 

[Crystanium]

-ignore post-

 

[Hive]

the problem is that even without bananas diddy still does really well against samus, most ppl don't realize this though.
And carrying around one banana isn't always as useful as you think, it slows down her close range game a lot, and the diddy kong can also throw the other banana at samus in between spams if he knows what he's doing.
idk, diddy kong is just hard for me lol.
I prefer using the bananas now or throwing them on platforms, or just getting used to having them in play....

@irl- squirtle has some pretty sick stuff with bananas! :D

 

[Cherry64]

Yeah, diddy kong is more agile than us in the air and ground. it's like meta knight but less ********.
That's where practice comes in Dryn. if we learn the new things and like them we can practice them out and put them in our own game. CPU's are far stupider than us are they not? we can actually utalize copying someone.

 

[-Crews-]

off of the diddy topic.

imo, in order to improve her metagame a samus main must play as many different chars as they can (given the player is skilled at the char) all the time. because different moves can be used well aganist different chars and vise versa. ex- continually using zair aganigs fast chars like mk, sonic and marth prob isnt the best option seeing as how the landing lag is just enough time for those chars to get in a hit and perhaps start a combo. or like how using excessive spam aganist chars with reflectors isnt the best option. on the other hand, using zair aganist chars like bowser, dk and gannon is teh sheeet. by doing this one must constantly change up their play style which builds a well rounded samus. i think this and not specifically at's will geatly imporve her metagame.

overall, experience is all we need. or in otherwords, time.

 

[LanceStern]

I went to my first competitive tourney today and lost to Diddy Kong. Really tough match.

Then I got past GnW and ran into a Metaknight =/

 

[Crystanium]

I went to my first competitive tourney today and lost to Diddy Kong. Really tough match.

Then I got past GnW and ran into a Metaknight =/

If you got the glide tossing down, it should help you play well enough against Diddy Kong. Once you know how to use Diddy Kong's Banana Peels against him, it doesn't help him out so much.

 

[LanceStern]

He was a better glide tosser than me haha.

I did better against Metaknight than Diddy. Those moves are FAST and outprioritize a lot of Samus' stuff.

 

[Hive]

ouch metaknight is really harsh!
Diddy kong is definitely a hard match lol, but sometimes I can pull off some wins in the beginning if they don't have much samus exp. ^^ Crispytacoz, here in norcal, basically ***** me with diddy though lol when we play lol. Who did you play lance?? ^^

 

[hyperstation]

I thought that dude "hyperstation" posted some pretty cool suggestions about reverse buffereing back on page 1 that no one really responded to... cough cough.

 

[Rhyme]

Hmm...well, my opinion on the banana issue is actually advice from another player. Throw the banana upwards, then camp where you think it's going to land. Keeps Diddy down on bananas and forces him to approach.

not sure how you would play mk mid range though lol that seems like a nado setup to me ^^

If you don't know what you're doing then it definitely can be. At the start of tornado, Samus can use Dtilt/Fsmash to end it, or Zair even when it's going full swing (if you space Zair correctly). I'm generally pretty good at avoiding being caught in tornado.

wait youre saying we should knock them off the stage then go for a spike???

Samus mains really need to stop hiding behind a barrage of projectile and get in the fight. I'm not saying you shouldn't use your projectile and zair to your advantage to land some damage in, either.

The way I see it, there's absolutely no reason to challenge yourself with a close-range fight if your opponent can't handle the long-range one. Brawl is a higly defensive fighter, after all. Plus, Samus isn't exactly one of the better boxers in Brawl. =/

Samus is the most worthless piece of **** ever.

Her metagame won't stop though.

: )

two things to look at for grabs against characters with bad grab trajectories (i think i used wario?):
-(Grab release or dthrow- i can't remember which lol)->fully charged charge shot->dash grab (the cs stuns them enough to grab them if it hits). what's iffy is how likely the person will be able to escape out of the stun animation of the grab, which is hard to test on training with one controller lol ^^ i expect it will be able to be broken out of, what i'm unsure of is how likely it will be. However, i'm fairly sure the cs to grab is almost guaranteed ^^
-dthrow->dash usmash-> possibly screw attack (low percentages)

edit: i hate morph bombs lol (except with recovery and DI, and occassionally to stop nado spams ^^) idk for me it makes her too vulnerable in matches ^^ and they also don't combo well. i (and i think xyro agrees?) definitely prefer other things in that situation. ^^

If that combos when Charge Shot is NOT charged then we may have ourselves an excellent chaingrab. I know the fully charged shot is a guaranteed hit though.

Dthrow->Usmash works if your opponent doesn't try to counter-attack. But at low percentages, I would prefer something like missile/shortZair/(canceled)Uair/(canceled)Fair.

I use bombs for far more than countering tornado spam. You might be surprised how hesitant people become around bombs, even when playing as a fast character. I've had some pretty cool bomb combos in my time.

 

[KingChaos]

off of the diddy topic.

imo, in order to improve her metagame a samus main must play as many different chars as they can (given the player is skilled at the char) all the time. because different moves can be used well aganist different chars and vise versa. ex- continually using zair aganigs fast chars like mk, sonic and marth prob isnt the best option seeing as how the landing lag is just enough time for those chars to get in a hit and perhaps start a combo. or like how using excessive spam aganist chars with reflectors isnt the best option. on the other hand, using zair aganist chars like bowser, dk and gannon is teh sheeet. by doing this one must constantly change up their play style which builds a well rounded samus. i think this and not specifically at's will geatly imporve her metagame.

overall, experience is all we need. or in otherwords, time.

I agree with this and have used this very same idea to make my samus what it is. Just takes trial and error people. Keep at it and space smartly and you'll get it.

 

[Hive]

If you don't know what you're doing then it definitely can be. At the start of tornado, Samus can use Dtilt/Fsmash to end it, or Zair even when it's going full swing (if you space Zair correctly). I'm generally pretty good at avoiding being caught in tornado.

what i meant by this is that playing mid range usually involves zair/missile/spamming for samus. This is what puts her in a nado setup lol, as soon as she leaves the ground mk can use tornado and it will eat through everything except a fully charged (well almost fully) charged shot, unless you hit a zair or super missile on the top corner of the nado, which you'd have to set up before hand, and contnue to rack damage on her before she can hit the ground.
dtlit and fsmash then can't really be used, and often you aren't given enough time anyways to pull them off when you are on the ground unless the mk is stupid and tries to approach with nado from a distance. I still think shielding really is the only thing to do at zair distance. ^^
legitimate mks who know what they are doing with this imo kill samus T.T

 

[Commander_Beef]

You Samus people could try going out offensive 80% of the time and 20% projectile/long range the other, but wait. . .

 

[LanceStern]

I go offensive with my projectiles.

Honestly that's the only way I can really fight MK as well. A LOT of Out-of-shield (OoS) Screw Attacks and spaced zairs and missiles to jab and smash combos.

But honestly, a pro MK can beat Samus. He's just too fast for her. It's suicide to try and spike him too

 

[DelxDoom]

edgeguard Metaknight with zairs and baby charge shots and if you feel like they are going to airdodge, go ahead and nair/dair

sweetspot bair is our best kill move, but it's difficult to hit. It's not like fsmash though, where the range is bad. bair is fast, decent range, but just awkward. needs more bair setups.

 

[LanceStern]

We need to find a way to set up the bair. It has an awekward hitbox and startup lag that gets punished.

 

[hyperstation]

We need to find a way to set up the bair. It has an awekward hitbox and startup lag that gets punished.

Quickturn BAirs ala SaiX. I love this combo vid preview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHbAaGaT5C0

 

[Orichalcum]

Uair worked quite good as a bair setup for me and what about uptilt? Its not that bad of a killing move either

 

[IsmaR]

Besides the above mentioned, D-air on grounded opponents > B-air is always a hawt finisher. It's very situational and hardly works though.

 

[Cherry64]

Quickturn BAirs ala SaiX. I love this combo vid preview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHbAaGaT5C0

Too sexy.

Yeah the quick turn Bair would be a nice addition to our metagame. I just hate how we have to learn a lot about everything to win, while others can pick a char and tie us. It's ********

 

[KingChaos]

hmm well guys I went to C4 Galore and got either 25th or 33rd outta like 90 people( i saw 2 different results one placing me at 25th and one at 33rd..). idk what to think about that umm good for samus or you expect better from me? I did manage to 2-0 everyone in my pool including AlphaZealot, MachineGunNorm, and Toph. Just when i got to brackets I guess i choked...sorry guys. DX

 

[LanceStern]

I can do those, just found out about them in training mode.

But it's not practical for me in matches. Especially when I'm mostly fighting Metaknights and Diddys. They are under the hitbox.

 

[hyperstation]

Too sexy.

Yeah the quick turn Bair would be a nice addition to our metagame. I just hate how we have to learn a lot about everything to win, while others can pick a char and tie us. It's ********

I feel your pain. I main Ganon.

hmm well guys I went to C4 Galore and got either 25th or 33rd outta like 90 people( i saw 2 different results one placing me at 25th and one at 33rd..). idk what to think about that umm good for samus or you expect better from me? I did manage to 2-0 everyone in my pool including AlphaZealot, MachineGunNorm, and Toph. Just when i got to brackets I guess i choked...sorry guys. DX

KingChaos is a rapist...in the BEST way possible. I love yr Samus.

But it's not practical for me in matches. Especially when I'm mostly fighting Metaknights and Diddys. They are under the hitbox.

True, but that doesn't mean it's not practical. That's like saying my UAir (or even BAir for that matter) isn't practical vs those two opponents because they're under the hitbox, which just isn't true. You just have to watch for the set up or set it up yourself. The reason I say this is because BAir is another kill move for Samuses that people don't tend to use. It's usually fresh and it can KO or set up for spikes/ZAir gimps off stage. The prospect of quick turn BAirs with reverse buffered follow-ups seems too sexy to ignore.

 

[0RLY]

*fairs through the thread*

 

[Sago]

yo yo yo this your dawg sago. Im going to dedicate today to samus and furthering her metagame. I play a very melee oriented samus(close range) but i am literaly runing away and spacing the entire time....people get angry. So today i just went ****in crazy and played as agressive as possible and it worked out really well. I threw out random *** nairs and bairs and killed with charge shot off the stage more then a few times at VERY low percents.
I also experimented with RC and though i cant say why i think it is an excellent samus map .
I am also working on a low percent charge blast to spike combo that i got to work once so far.
_sago

 

[Cherry64]

Epicness Sago. I think Samus mains need to effing Aim more missiles off ledge. jump down fire a few missiles and then edge hod. or charge shot or anything. no one has really tested it out and the only thing I actually heard about it was dryn saying how to double missile from the ledge as a good gimping tool.

 

[DelxDoom]

yo yo yo this your dawg sago. Im going to dedicate today to samus and furthering her metagame. I play a very melee oriented samus(close range) but i am literaly runing away and spacing the entire time....people get angry. So today i just went ****in crazy and played as agressive as possible and it worked out really well. I threw out random *** nairs and bairs and killed with charge shot off the stage more then a few times at VERY low percents.
I also experimented with RC and though i cant say why i think it is an excellent samus map .
I am also working on a low percent charge blast to spike combo that i got to work once so far.
_sago

this is what we need
a) being able to switch up between spacing zairs/missiles and close up random throwing out hitboxes and then also precision uair/up b/etc strings
b) gimps
c) stages

yeah a) is the most important. when you go aggro you need to learn when to switch back to spacing zairs when they start trying to patiently punish your mistakes

 

[n00b]

i just used to go aggro in the flashiest manner possible and it used to work out pretty well

but i never claimed to be advancin her metagame, that was just my stee-lo

 

[DelxDoom]

I was actually surprised I responded to Sago's post before n00b did

 

[Sago]

yo yo yo its your boi sago.
So i realized something else... IF someone is obviously going to recover low (especially someone without multiple double Jumps) then you can just drop off the edge and charge shot..it will either kill them or they will airdodge and have a terrible time recovering with your ledge zair technique.