OK! Ness Q&A/Social Thread

[choknater]

someone mentioned m2 being hard but it's not that hard

you have to really assert yourself though. we have answers to each of his approaches and we have to show them early so that m2 doesn't go ham. if he is teleport happy, just know the range and throw out a meaty nair where you think he is gonna teleport. if he likes floating and using bairs and uairs, you can pkf his tail. it's also good against m2's long range tilts in general. shadow balls recover a lot of health when absorbed so those can be discouraged too. his hitboxes may be large, but ours are high duration and meaty, like peach's, so we can use that to our advantage. gotta play lots of defense since his mobility and range are better, but of course, ness' punish game is gdlk and mewtwo is fairly light so it's very manageable

 

[phi1ny3]

How do you make Magnet -> DJC aerials (the biggest culprit is dair) have less "hang time"? It seems that I can usually do nair or fair very close to the ground and fast fall so I don't get as easily punished, but DJC dair out of magnet especially seems to have this small window where you're just handing near the ground with your foot thrown out, and as a result it throws off my l-cancel for the aerial, or even if I do, it becomes easier to punish on block.

 

[Bryonato]

i use tap jump for quick aerials out of mag

 

[Zero May Cry]

I use the X button.

Also, I recently got netplay set up. If anyone wants to play sometime, just hit me up on Anther's netplay ladder. I'm Zero_May_Cry on there. Would love to play with any of you guys.

 

[Kokomaniac]

No I get the same problem for dair, I think you have to delay the ff a bit, like just a split second

 

[GMaster171]

@ Zero May Cry
you in the skype group? would be down to play you when I can

 

[Zero May Cry]

I'm not. How do I get into it? My skype name is thepatriot5000

 

[Kokomaniac]

First, he has to get past...




...the Initiation.

 

[Zero May Cry]

Oh boy

10Okays

 

[GMaster171]

The initiation is accepting my contact request on Skype (or yell at me if you haven't got it).

I withhold the right to add more once you are in tho <3

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

So I played ness a lot in melee, but he was utter trash so I never broke him out in tournaments. Recently I stopped caring how bad he was an did it anyways, since I figured out how to win using just fundamentals and a couple B&B combos, and I did alright. Ness is really bad, though. I was playing ness in AZ after EVO and someone mentioned how much better ness is in PM. I had tried him before (I was in the Alpha PMBR) but didn't like the rising double jump since it clashed with my melee muscle memory. I gave him another shot though, and found he feels practically identical to melee once you get past the rising double jump. But on top of that, he is leagues and leagues better. I've watched some of the best PM ness players so far, but none of them seem to know the finer points of ness' game. I think ness is a serious contender in PM, and I plan to win some chicago tournaments with him to prove it.

 

[Bryonato]

Glad to have you around. Get in to the Ness Skype group and get acquainted.


I personally think Ness is top 15.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Just watch me on the WaveDash Wed stream tonight. You'll be sure to pick up a few things

 

[Bryonato]

I run my own tournaments on Wednesday nights.

Don't get too ahead of yourself, now.

 

[Kokomaniac]

May you perhaps expand on these "finer points of ness" that the rest of us just seemingly aren't getting

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Its hard to explain, mostly just 20XX melee stuff (specific spacing traps and reaction punishes). Also, theres a whole class of combos ness has that I haven't seen anyone using yet. I didn't do PM last night since I have work today, but feel free to check my stuff out on saturday.

 

[Kokomaniac]

Who've you been watching?

 

[Psi Sig]

Finally watched a video of myself playing.....locking myself in a dark cave to practice for a couple weeks.

 

[phi1ny3]

Anyone have some nuances, tips, etc. on the Yoshi MU? I remember Bryonato playing against a pretty good one a couple of times.

 

[Bryonato]

I've played against a bunch of really good Yoshis.

The MU is really weird. First thing you need to know is RESPECT YOSHI. His range, grab game, combo game, etc are all really, really good. Don't think you can go hard aggro. IMO it's best to stay patient, space pkfire/fair and try to bait.
Be wary of chasing him because his pivot grab has really ridiculous range and his throw combos on us are deadly.

If you fight an eggroll-happy Yoshi, Fair is your best friend. Fair will stuff egg every time. Also remember there is no initial hitbox on aerial eggroll.
Don't shield egg. It's incredibly safe on shield. If egg does hit your shield, buffer a roll.
His combo weight is kinda weird so after dthrow imo nair is best as the weakhit will string better than fair which a good yoshi will probably nair out of.

Footstool > Yoshi's recovery

 

[Psi Sig]

anyone try any other brawl mods?

 

[Cuban Pete]

Is this normal?

 

[Toon link is 2cute!]

Sorry if this was answered but
Is his magnet useful? It seems to have potential.

Also, is there a way to escape out of a pk fire? Ive tried it on cpus and they almost always just stay stuck and i get them to like 120% damage super easily, and apparently ive heard that cpus have perfect reaction or something (its a level 9 btw)

 

[Psi Sig]

Magnet is hecka useful check out bryonatos tech thread
http://smashboards.com/threads/upda...ase-and-guide-complete-with-crotchcam.356412/
and pk fire escpae
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzGFooXC-1U

 

[Toon link is 2cute!]

That at guide is a lot to take in O_O

And for pk fire, is it still useful? Also cant you just use another pk fire?
Thanks

 

[Psi Sig]

pk fire is one of Ness' most important moves, because even if they get out you are controlling space. When you hit them they only only have so many options, the people I play with mostly go back so I'll wait for them to get out and then hit them with another. I'm pretty sure that even hit them with 2 pk fires its still easy to get out of, mi not sure can another Ness main clarify.
Yea that guide descended from heaven itself, so much you can do with Ness that I never would've realized

 

[Toon link is 2cute!]

Oh yeah i didnt realize that you are controlling space. Plus you can follow up with many other moves, even another pk fire. And if they come to you, use your bat, then another pk fire, if at low percents.
Most people i play dont know how though so i shoot a bunch of them, then dthrow. Or alternatively, i sweetspot a bat, sometimes even twice, KOing them. I usually use like 5 pk fires. Of course, if they get out, then i guess ill just shoot another. I also like grabbing them so they dont escape then just in case they dont leave the grab, i back throw and juggle them around with pk thunder 1.

Is there a major flaw in that?


Oh and just wondering, what would the difficulty of ness be? And would ness be better than lucas.

 

[Psi Sig]

I always adjust how I play by how good my opponent can get out of pk fire, and I adjust from there, but in general I don't like spamming pk fire from just a playstyle standpoint. I wouldn't know if there's a flaw in that, I'm pretty new here myself. Personally after grabbing out of pk fire I like d-throw, f-air, magnet jump canceled into another aerial. You should check out this thread and see what other Ness' do: http://smashboards.com/threads/say-fuzzy-pickles-ness-video-critique-thread.333004/
and you especially watch Awestin play, that man is incredible.
As for difficulty it can vary, because I think you can play both a very technical Ness, and/or a very space and punish heavy Ness. As you can see from the guide there's alot awesome tech, but I dont think its super demanding like fox.
It's hard to say which is better, you should just play the character that feels good to you, Lucas is more tech heavy than ness though and to see what he can do I'd recommend watching both Pink Fresh and Neon play.

 

[Toon link is 2cute!]

Oh yeah ive seen pink fresh and awestin, they are good
And yeah spamming pk fire probably wont get me too far XD
And thanks for the link


Oh and i just did a quick match with my brother. I tried djc and its way more useful than it seems. And for fun, i followed up with pk fire, to induce rage. (He hates that move) then bat. He always falls for that one.

 

[Psi Sig]

Yea DJC is God sent, and I love how you can choose to do raising aerials by holding the jump button, makes it alot deeper. also lets you raising f-air back on to stage, one of Ness' safest returning options

 

[phi1ny3]

ty Bryonato. Also, does anyone know if Ness' fair hitbox has changed in any ways since Brawl's? Brawl fair is actually pretty huge in range, I remember that retreating fair outranges marth's fair.

 

[Bryonato]

afaik Ness' PM fair is Melee fair

 

[Akhenderson]

I kinda feel bad for making everyone in the gamer's hq place not want to play roy against me because of the down throw chain grab being SO good against him.

I should confirm how many down throws it takes to finally stop working on Roy.

 

[Psi Sig]

yo watching awestin's platform tech chase is fantastic. Definitely using that

 

[phi1ny3]

I kinda feel bad for making everyone in the gamer's hq place not want to play roy against me because of the down throw chain grab being SO good against him.

I should confirm how many down throws it takes to finally stop working on Roy.

You can always throw in a djc uair/fair -> regrab after dthrow at low % for style points.

But that being said, function over form.

 

[the_irish_dude]

SCG | Zeej taking it to Awestin on this great string

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2dytye/awestin_being_served_up_to_scg_zeej_on_a_pk/

 

[Toon link is 2cute!]

(I wanted to put this here. Could this be viable still? Because honestly it was just unexpected for my brother)

Im not exactly sure how i did it but i did a really cool combo on my brother. It was something like

The match started, i used some forward airs and pk fires to approach, got a bit of damage there.

Then i did pk fire>>dthrow>>fair>>>dair, ko ing him. It doesnt seem that good written but it was pretty cool looking!
Ugh if only i saved the replay

 

[Psi Sig]

Then i did pk fire>>dthrow>>fair>>>dair, ko ing him. It doesnt seem that good written but it was pretty cool looking!
Ugh if only i saved the replay

I LOVE FAIR TO DAIR, I haven't gotten it off many times, but its so satisfying

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

fair->dair is good, but it is easy to see coming and can be meteor canceled. If your opponent starts doing this, make sure to mix it in with fair->nair

 

[El_Chavito_Loco]

yeah gonna need some footage to talk that big lol

also I love NZA but McBad (awestin) is pretty much the undisputed best

Join the ness skype group btw.

I'm kind of late but how can I join the Ness Skype group?