Kokomaniac
Smash Journeyman
Why'd they take out absorb lag anyway? My friends yell at me to absorb but they just don't understand the struggle
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OK! Ness Q&A/Social Thread
- Thread starter SinisterB
- Start date
Bryonato
Green Hat
I believe a BR member once said (when this was first brought up on 2.6's release) that it "invalidated" energy based projectiles.
I can certainly understand this logic to a certain extent but IMO I feel that's just encouraging the move to be used as intended.
Idk. Magnet is a tricky subject.
I can certainly understand this logic to a certain extent but IMO I feel that's just encouraging the move to be used as intended.
Idk. Magnet is a tricky subject.
Jechtire
Smash Cadet
Did old magnet have similar properties to a shine?
Also whats the difference between Lucas' and Ness' shines?
Also whats the difference between Lucas' and Ness' shines?
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Zero May Cry
Smash Cadet
PSI Magnet is definitely not worthy of being called a "shine" imo since Ness' magnet comes out so slowly. It's like frame 8 while shine is frame 1. As for the difference in magnet between the Mother bros, Ness' covers his entire body and absorbs from both sides, while Lucas' comes out much faster (frame 3-4?) and is much smaller and is only in front of him.
Kokomaniac
Smash Journeyman
Lucas: more dmg, knocks back behind and up for wave dash follow ups, comes out and ends much much faster, less absorbing reliability
Ness: less dmg, slower in all ways, knockback is tough to predict but mostly pops up and in direction of hit
Ness: less dmg, slower in all ways, knockback is tough to predict but mostly pops up and in direction of hit
Akhenderson
Smash Apprentice
I don't see why it would "invalidate" energy projectiles seeing as how some characters have reflective abilities that would theoretically "invalidate" every projectile.
But that's not the point, we're discussing magnet.
Magnet's start up is slow enough so that a moderate amount of prediction is needed to absorb energy projectiles that could potentially be fatal. This includes stuff like fully charged Aura Sphere, Shadow Ball, Charge Shot, PK Flash (though not very difficult to predict) and Thunder. Even so, the ending lag is enough so that even if you get hit afterwards, the percentage loss will usually outweigh the percentage gained by being hit in combos. Not to mention, these stronger projectiles have longer ending lag, which makes punishing the magnet more difficult.
However, Magnet is fast enough so that common offensive and defensive projectile options are easily absorbed. Common ones are Fireballs, small Shadow Balls, Falco, Wolf and ZSS's Blasters, PK Fire and Freeze, Thunder jolt, and Din's Fire. But contrary to the last one, the ending lag is slow enough so that you can get hit afterwards, resulting in an increase of percentage rather than a percentage loss from absorbing a projectile. These projectiles all have really fast ending lag, making it easier to punish on absorption as well. (Din's Fire is a special case in which Zelda can still attack while the projectile is out.)
With these, the problem with changing magnet's frames I feel is:
1. If the start up is too fast then stronger projectiles will be incredibly detrimental to use against Ness.
2. If the ending lag is too fast and/or jump cancelable then weaker projectiles become obsolete as an approach option.
So how much of magnet do we have to change so that it's not "too fast" or "too slow" as to not completely make projectiles too weak to use against Ness.
Increasing the size of the magnet doesn't really change the predictions needed for strong projectiles, and would still punish weaker approach options that are spaced incorrectly due to the way the hitbox works for the magnet when absorbing something. The only issue is that it might make down throw -> magnet -> fair -> regrab too strong as a combo option because of the added hitbox.
I dunno. That's just my two cents.
Psi Sig
Smash Journeyman
Went to my first tournament today I three stocked a Roy then he went Shiek and destroyed me -_-
also got to play my first Ness ditto it was so much fun fighting another Ness finally, it was close but he came out on top.
It was awesome fighting and talking smash with people out side my group of friends, tonight definitely rekindled my desire to improve, and I will defiantly be going to a lot more tournaments :D
also got to play my first Ness ditto it was so much fun fighting another Ness finally, it was close but he came out on top.
It was awesome fighting and talking smash with people out side my group of friends, tonight definitely rekindled my desire to improve, and I will defiantly be going to a lot more tournaments :D
Psi Sig
Smash Journeyman
Zero May Cry
Smash Cadet
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Zero May Cry
Smash Cadet
http://www.gfycat.com/ReliableGoldenAndeancockoftherock
An in depth GIF on Ness shield pressure. Learn it sheeple
An in depth GIF on Ness shield pressure. Learn it sheeple
Bryonato
Green Hat
dtilt is actually Ness' safest move on shield believe it or not
Zero May Cry
Smash Cadet
Real talk, Bry.
Bryonato
Green Hat
jc has great horizontal range. Jc has a better vertical hitbox
Kokomaniac
Smash Journeyman
Officially gonna start jc grabbing every time
Bryonato
Green Hat
I find JC grab is best if you're trying to catch someone in PKF
Can someone walk me through the R.O.B. match up? The only thing that prevents me from taking first at locals (sans Rolex, who I take to last stock 
) is Ben Grimm playing R.O.B.
He beats Ness in the air, beats PKF. has better range, lives forever, and can't get comboed from d-throw at higher percents. Also, incredibly difficult to ledge guard. Any suggestions on how to play the match up?
) is Ben Grimm playing R.O.B.He beats Ness in the air, beats PKF. has better range, lives forever, and can't get comboed from d-throw at higher percents. Also, incredibly difficult to ledge guard. Any suggestions on how to play the match up?
Sir_Africa
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2014
- Messages
- 57
So in your guys' honest opinion, where would you rate Ness on a tier list in general? And why? A friend of mine says he's been in the top 5 all throughout Smash history and I sincerely beg to differ. Thoughts?
Zero May Cry
Smash Cadet
So I got 4th at a local tournament yesterday. I got some pretty good experience against good Ivysaur, Bowser, Falcon, MK, and Link players. Got knocked out of winners by my own friend's Mewtwo and knocked out of loser's by one of those guys who uses multiple characters and counterpicks based on the stage. I took his MK to last stock (MK gets comboed pretty easy) and then lost to his Link on his second to last stock. Definitely feel like I've improved since the last local so I'm making progress. Shout outs to everyone who's contributed to the MU discussion; I looked over it before I played my matches and kept the advice in mind.
Sir_Africa, I'd say Ness is mid-tier at worst. You need to show your friends the tier lists from the previous Smash games and ask him why he thinks Ness has always been great. Ness' big weakness is his lack of range, so he has no of competing with characters like Marth, who stay very safe and are able to punish many of Ness' pressure options. Ness doesn't have many safe pressure options in general outside of PKF.
Sir_Africa, I'd say Ness is mid-tier at worst. You need to show your friends the tier lists from the previous Smash games and ask him why he thinks Ness has always been great. Ness' big weakness is his lack of range, so he has no of competing with characters like Marth, who stay very safe and are able to punish many of Ness' pressure options. Ness doesn't have many safe pressure options in general outside of PKF.
Bryonato
Green Hat
He's been bottom tier in literally every game except for PM LOL.
IMO in PM he's top 15.
Sir_Africa
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2014
- Messages
- 57
I thought as much. lol. Thank you for the replies.
Kokomaniac
Smash Journeyman
We should get a rough community tier list going
Bryonato
Green Hat
theres a lot of those floating around
Zero May Cry
Smash Cadet
Ness vs. Mewtwo is so difficult, real talk. It's honestly not even worth all the work Ness has to put in to beat that character. It's like the Marth MU but harder
Zero May Cry
Smash Cadet
Favorite Ness combos anyone? I personally love finishing stocks with down air to up air. So verticool
Akhenderson
Smash Apprentice
Double Dair combo. Kills almost anyone that's off stage.
offstage pk fire -> dair. Trying to di out of pk fire? Let's dair you so you smash di out of pk fire, careening to your DEATH.
Also, how do you guys feel about lylat cruise? I've been trying to practice utilizing the stage because no one likes playing it, so it could serve as an unusual counter pick against characters that don't do well against it, but opt to not ban it in favor of other bad maps. (Only because no one likes going to Lylat.) I'd usually counter pick against characters without tether recoveries because lol lylat.
Zero May Cry
Smash Cadet
Literally the best Ness player. Bryonato, Awestin, NZA are frauds compared to this player https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iichY4cKvCw
TerraScythe
Smash Rookie
I really wish there were more uses of PKT2 onstage. Comboing into a PKT tailwhip and then PKT2 as a finisher would be so stylin'.
Shield drop> DJC aerial is silly, every Ness needs to learn to shield drop now. It makes platform camping that much safer.
If they like up-tilt you from below, just do a quick DJC Dair (you have like 25 or some frames to do it out of a shield drop of marth's utilt, for example). if they did an aerial, you can do a rising Uair or dair and combo, or do a quick DJC to start it and platform tech chase, its silly.
If they like up-tilt you from below, just do a quick DJC Dair (you have like 25 or some frames to do it out of a shield drop of marth's utilt, for example). if they did an aerial, you can do a rising Uair or dair and combo, or do a quick DJC to start it and platform tech chase, its silly.
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TerraScythe
Smash Rookie
My opponents hate how they hang in the air so much after a grounded dair, haha.
I personally like: jump -> fair -> magnet -> 2nd jump to quick dair.
Kokomaniac
Smash Journeyman
On a scale from 1-10, how crouch cancelable is dtilt (if at all)? Assume 10+%, mid/lightweight (most of the cast)
Bryonato
Green Hat
an opponent cant cc dtilt if you just keep mashing afaik. gotta mash fast
Psi Sig
Smash Journeyman
Just noticed you got into the backroom congrats Byronato!
Bryonato
Green Hat
thanks got in last tuesday
got in last tuesday
Psi Sig
Smash Journeyman
How did he do that f-smash out of pk2 at 0:26?
Zero May Cry
Smash Cadet
PKT2 has almost no landing lag so you can pretty much do anything out of it.
Psi Sig
Smash Journeyman
Going to my second tournament today, here's to hoping I don't get bodied
Kokomaniac
Smash Journeyman
The key to winning is looking at your opponent and convincing yourself that you are superior and that you are going to win, without confidence you have no edge
Psi Sig
Smash Journeyman
Made it to either losers quarters or one match before, lost a really close 2-1 match to a Roy :D