OK! Ness Q&A/Social Thread

[Kokomaniac]

Post your name in the thread designated for it

 

[Bryonato]

Said thread is stickied

 

[Zatchiel]

How should I be approaching? I have a very tough time getting in against most of the cast, I'd say.

 

[choknater]

basically full hop, and then do a djc fair. this leads into a grab

while full hopping, judge whether you're too close or too far to apprach

this basic neutral game works against pretty much every character

 

[Kokomaniac]

djc pk fire, djc fair, dash dance mix ups, air stalling with magnets (b reverse magnets while running forward can be really good in particular matchups, but specifically not those where non-energy based projectiles are often out or where there are swords or generally long range sweeping attacks)

 

[Psi Sig]

oh my goodness, i just noticed we got stickes for the forum, it beautiful

 

[Dragrin]

Hey Guys I have been playing ness a while in tourneys up in the sac/roseville area and If possible I would love to be part of this skype ness chat thing. I am always looking for new ways to improve

 

[Dragrin]

Forgot to tell my skype in my last message. Madaraman22

 

[jakeyizle]

So when you're on a platform, it's possible to drop -> double jump -> aerial and land back on the platform. Does this come out faster than a normal DJC aerial or is there any other benefit to doing it?

 

[SinisterB]

sounds like that's in the same vein as using an aerial fast enough to come out before you drop through a platform i.e Falco's bair

test it out and see for yourself. otherwise shield drop -> DJC aerial or plain old DJC aerials are still your best bet

perhaps this would work with shield drops (i don't recall if i have tried this before lol)

 

[Daltonthelou]

What does everyone think about D-throw to reverse bair hitbox? Is it something worth practicing?

 

[GMaster171]

I do that quite often to get them off stage in the correct direction. Knowing how to reverse moves is really useful (I've done reverse fair->uair on bad DI lol)

 

[Boiko]

So when you're on a platform, it's possible to drop -> double jump -> aerial and land back on the platform. Does this come out faster than a normal DJC aerial or is there any other benefit to doing it?

From what I've practiced, it does come out faster than regular DJC on platforms.

 

[TreK]

Hey, Ivy/DK player here, I have a question about Ness.
I have crouch cancelled, then perfect shielded Ness's PK Fire after getting hit by it several times this week end. But I have no idea how I did it and am unable to reproduce it on command unless I'm mashing the shield button, which gives greatly inconsistent results. I know it's possible to CC->shield the PK fire, so it should be possible to delay the shield and perfect shield the next hit instead. The question is how do I do this consistently ?

 

[Boiko]

Hey, Ivy/DK player here, I have a question about Ness.
I have crouch cancelled, then perfect shielded Ness's PK Fire after getting hit by it several times this week end. But I have no idea how I did it and am unable to reproduce it on command unless I'm mashing the shield button, which gives greatly inconsistent results. I know it's possible to CC->shield the PK fire, so it should be possible to delay the shield and perfect shield the next hit instead. The question is how do I do this consistently ?

Are you talking about reflecting the entire pillar so it becomes yours? If so I believe each hit of the pillar on PKF is 12 frames apart, you would need to PS any of those hits in order to reflect the pillar. I'm pretty sure that's correct, but I'm not 100 percent.

 

[TreK]

Yes, but when you try to CC->shield the pillar, you end up shielding too soon and doing a normal shield instead of a perfect shield

 

[the_irish_dude]

So just incase you haven't SCG | Zeej latest highlight
http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/2i0o1u/zeej_ness_doing_a_0death_combo_on_tintos_marth_in/

 

[Boiko]

Yes, but when you try to CC->shield the pillar, you end up shielding too soon and doing a normal shield instead of a perfect shield

So shield later. The pillar doesn't affect your shield timing.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

Any reason to use SHFFL instead of DJCing at all?

 

[GMaster171]

SHFFL covers more vertical range in general, allows you to get more hits of fair easily and gives the the late AC window and the option to retreat rather than being forced to go whichever way you DJC.

 

[UTSmash]

Every time I see any Ness aside from Awestin, they generally spam PK fire like crazy. Ultimately that has created a bad reputation for Ness.

When I'm playing, I always have a guilty conscious when I spam PK fire too much.

Ness's up-b is one of my favorite moves. I have noticed that I use it more than most Ness' do. For medium/slow-fallers, I tend to always throw out an up-b when I can because it's such a safe option (with a few exceptions of course).

Some may argue that any given character can throw out a counter, aerial dodge, or cancelling attack to avoid the up-b. This is a valid argument, if the Ness controlling the up-b let's the orb fly direct to the character.

This option is silly against a smart opponent.

However, I have learned that if you spin the orb right before it collides with a falling opponent, they very rarely avod taking some sort of damage / hitstun.

It's really safe if pulled off correctly. The danger lies in not connecting the orb with something before your enemy gets to you.

As a Ness main, everything about the match-up makes me sad.

Zelda has so many advantages over Ness.

1. F-air is almost never an option because it'll likely end in a lightning kick trade (3% to Zelda, 15-20% to Ness)
2. Zelda's F-air and B-air come out at a faster rate than Ness's B-air but has the same kill potential.
3. Zelda's N-b cancels out Ness's Up-b so edge-guarding becomes extremely easy for Zelda.
4. Zelda's n-b inhibits PK-fire and dash-attack usage.
5. The explosion from Din's fire cannot be absorbed.

Any counter arguments?

I'm not saying that this is the best option. I will only use maybe 5 up-b's per match that are dedicated to aerial harass (and even then only against floaties and medium weight characters). The rest of my air attacks are the latter options. I'm just saying that up-b has more potential than people give it credit for. It's an extremely easy harass option for enemies high to mid-air. It's also great for catching spacies / Ike when they're side-b'ing. In-fact, up-b is my favorite tool to harass an off-stage ike because it overrides Ike's up-b which is usually a hastle to punish.

It's easier said than done. I've taken games off of Grime (ranked 4th best in PM) during tourney, but the match-up just isn't in my favor. :/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjCO1soovOo

This is Grime but unfortunately I have no matches of Grime and I.

Sure it's not hard to dash-dance but with higher level play dash-dance baiting isn't enough. It's about character options.

Nothing directly comes to mind aside from Samus's missiles, luigi's fireballs, and Falco's lasers. Any others?

My roommate and I both play Ness and often team together for doubles. Our team names have been "Sweet Nesstea", "Nessesary punishment", and "the bear Nessecities".

I welcome you to come visit! My tag is Branz. We have weeklies every thursday. You can find us on facebook pretty easliy by simply searching Austin PM weeklies

 

[Phaiyte]

I'm not exactly a hardcore Ness main buuuuuut I'm preeeeetty sure there's better and more effective options in literally every scenario.

bait nB and L2 DJCNair

It's not hard to dash dance lol. I'm not even aware of who that is, though. Videos of those matches?

I'm in Austin frequently to visit a friend and I'm willing to bet I can win against these players. I live near Beaumont.

 

[GMaster171]

Not to be rude, but there was no need to make 5+ threads for topics that all could have been discussed in other threads. Move it to social/matchup thread please

 

[Boiko]

I play with a good Zelda player frequently. I haven't dropped a set to him though. It's a hard match up but I'll break it down in a little while. Be on the lookout for an edit to this post.

 

[Boiko]

Double post, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this problem or could perhaps explain it to me.

Sometimes when I'm recovering with Ness, the PKT will come out and travel the wrong way despite my controller inputs. Example, I'm on the bottom left side of the stage, so I want to hit my bottom left. To do that, I press Up+B and bring the control stick around to the left and up, however, sometimes, the orb will travel to the right, despite my pressing left. Looks like this:
/--o
x

Where x is Ness.... LOL.

It almost always costs me the stock when this happens as I'm not prepared for it.

Has this happened to anyone else or could anyone provide a solution? I haven't been able to recreate it.

 

[NessAtc.]

Double post, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this problem or could perhaps explain it to me.

Sometimes when I'm recovering with Ness, the PKT will come out and travel the wrong way despite my controller inputs. Example, I'm on the bottom left side of the stage, so I want to hit my bottom left. To do that, I press Up+B and bring the control stick around to the left and up, however, sometimes, the orb will travel to the right, despite my pressing left. Looks like this:
/--o
x

Where x is Ness.... LOL.

It almost always costs me the stock when this happens as I'm not prepared for it.

Has this happened to anyone else or could anyone provide a solution? I haven't been able to recreate it.

I've had this happen to me before. It generally happens when you input directions before the PKT is usable. Sometimes at the "GAME!" slowdown, I've PKTed and my PKT comes out to the right because I did it too fast.

 

[Boiko]

I've had this happen to me before. It generally happens when you input directions before the PKT is usable. Sometimes at the "GAME!" slowdown, I've PKTed and my PKT comes out to the right because I did it too fast.

I'll have to test that theory.

 

[Psi Sig]

these new jammies though

 

[NessAtc.]

where are the bumblebee jammies

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Pajamas in doubles is like the best buff Ness ever got, real talk.

 

[ilysm]

So, maybe this isn't the right place to put it, but I wasn't sure I should make a whole new thread. How does everyone do their DJC Nairs? My inputs for other DJC Aerials look something like Y -> Control stick up (I use the control stick to have better control over the direction of the DJC) -> flick the C-Stick -> L-Cancel, etc. But for Nairs I can never seem to get it right. Usually I'll just get an Uair. My ideally polished DJC looks something like the ones in this video (BTW, has anyone ever watched Eli's Ness? It's pretty crazy Does he not play Ness anymore?). Does anyone have a good way of doing the inputs that gives me directional control without sacrificing consistency? Or do I just need to get quicker movement down?

 

[Boiko]

So, maybe this isn't the right place to put it, but I wasn't sure I should make a whole new thread. How does everyone do their DJC Nairs? My inputs for other DJC Aerials look something like Y -> Control stick up (I use the control stick to have better control over the direction of the DJC) -> flick the C-Stick -> L-Cancel, etc. But for Nairs I can never seem to get it right. Usually I'll just get an Uair. My ideally polished DJC looks something like the ones in this video (BTW, has anyone ever watched Eli's Ness? It's pretty crazy Does he not play Ness anymore?). Does anyone have a good way of doing the inputs that gives me directional control without sacrificing consistency? Or do I just need to get quicker movement down?

For DJC nairs I just double tap Y or slide my finger from y to x to a. You can also use the control stick first and then y and then a.

At the time of his activity, Eli was, IMO the best Ness player period. He's not so active anymore but he still plays on Netplay and is currently top of the ladder. I was actually just talking to him.

 

[Bryonato]

i double tap Y for djc nair, personally

 

[Akhenderson]

I double tap X for my djc everything.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Depends. I generally double tap Y, but I use Y and tap jump to do them sometimes as well. The former method offers more control, but the latter allows me to do them a bit lower.

 

[GMaster171]

I do y->up->a for instant nairs. I used to do Y->Y->A but I eventually just grinded out getting to neutral. phast is fun

 

[ilysm]

Yeah, I'm thinking of just grinding out Y -> Up left/up right -> A. It would be better for directional control and close-range spacing fakeouts. I'll also try Up -> Y -> A.

 

[SinisterB]

back from the dead

 

[Kenkoku]

I may be a little late to the discussion, but what does everybody think about the change to PK Fire? My friends used to complain about Ness being broken, and then laughed in my face when the 3.5 changes came out, what with PK Fire not activating on shield anymore. I've also noticed that Reslived at Xanadu hasn't showed up since this change was made. Does it ruin your Ness game significantly, or are you guys adapting well?

Edit: I have been a loyal Ness main since I got into Smash Bros., and didn't find out about PM until just a year ago.

 

[Akhenderson]

It affects the players who use pk fire as a primary way to be a make shift shield pressure option but doesn't affect the players who hit pk fire on opponents that are out of shield.
A majority of my PK Fires hit out of shield anyways so this nerf barely hindered how I played.