Official "Who is going to return?" topic

[Johnknight1]

Well I haven't read the other posts (you expect me to read 5 pages?) but here's all I have.

This could've been mixed up with rumor, but I heard that some developers were talking about a 40-deep roster of characters. Now that's quite a few, and unless they're getting a tonne of 3rd party support (eg: Snake), they can't afford to cut many existing characters.

I don't see why Dr Mario should stay. There are minimal differences in the two, and i'm sure that, despite the change in length of the cape/sheet, Bob Money would happily kick arse with the plumber version. I must agree with the trophy text that whether or not you use Mario or Dr Mario is largely based on personal preference. And that quote alone says to me "So we don't actually know why we put him here..."

Falco, i'm also not sure. Maybe if they were to change his move-set around a bit, so it was sort of a Mario/Luigi relationship between him and Fox. I think that'd be worth a second time around.

There's been talk of Roy leaving the ranks this time, and I can see why. Wheras you could change the moves for the Big Blue Bird easily, Roy can't really go anywhere. He could swing his sword a bit differently, but unless he's a much unwanted clone again, I can't see the reason in a return.

Ganondorf just taunted us with his sword-out victory pose, swinging it mightily above his head before slamming it into the ground, purple flames shooting out. He needs...
(I think i'll add some emphasis there..)
NEEDS that sword in his moves this time around. No more slower Captain Falcon with Angry Punch and Frown-Kick, please. We want that big lump of EVIL METAL to wave around.

That's all I have. Beware of my long posts.

That's what I' talking about ^^^! Ganondorf has been taunting us with his sword forever! Let us see him use it in the ultimate showdown with Link. A true showdown between Link and Ganondorf=omg I'll be happy! Plus one with the Wind Waker Link would own as well! Give Ganondorf his sword, but still keep a few of his moves! Make every LOZ fan happy, instead of taunting us!

I believe that Falco might be one of the only characters to stay because of tiers. He's in the top in most common tiers. He should get some tweaking at minimum, as should every single character. I think his A down smash, A up smash, and common A attacks lack originality. I'm pretty sure he's in, and I hope I'm not wrong, though I doubt I will be.

A original moveset for Doc=really hard, though he could be a costume, at best. Hopefulyl he's a trophy, if trophies are in SSB this time around. I don't think it is likely a original moveset is easy at all to make, and is simply extremely difficult to make. The Dr. Mario games appear to be somewhat like Tetris, which makes a original moveset even harder than Capt. Falcon and Fox, who never stepped out of their ships and fought.

Roy might be high in the common tiers, but his moveset is hard to make. It would take more time that a lot of newcomers to make him a lot more original. Still, I don't have a clue as to which way he'll go. I don't think it is smart to say he's as good as in, or as good as gone. It virtually has become almost the equivalance of a coin toss.

I also don't know where I heard the 40+ character thing, but I think it was on some big gaming site. I don't know which one, but I'll have another look around at it to see if it is liable or not. I'll try to tell the people here what I find.

Luigi needs some better moves. He's almost been totally de-cloned, but he still could use a tad (1-4 moves) more of de-cloning. Also that Super Mario 64 example is almost irrelavant, considering he was a playable character in Super Mario 64 DS. Also, he needs to be well more along the average common tier at lest, as oppose mid-low at which he is usually at.

 

[NilliX]

All true. That's another idea me and some mates thought of, and one that's probably been discussed here thoroughly.

The way character costumes change, not just in colour, but overall appearance. As you mentioned, Johnknight, Dr Mario as an alternative costume, or perhaps a Wind Waker version as an alternate get-up for Young Link?
I'm also not too peachy with Wario's current gear, I much like the purple dungarees and yellow shirt more, and I hope that'll be able to change.

Me and friends have also been discussing Super-Brawl as a Special Brawl mode. Super-powered versions of characters...but that's for a different subject post.

 

[Johnknight1]

All true. That's another idea me and some mates thought of, and one that's probably been discussed here thoroughly.

The way character costumes change, not just in colour, but overall appearance. As you mentioned, Johnknight, Dr Mario as an alternative costume, or perhaps a Wind Waker version as an alternate get-up for Young Link?
I'm also not too peachy with Wario's current gear, I much like the purple dungarees and yellow shirt more, and I hope that'll be able to change.

Me and friends have also been discussing Super-Brawl as a Special Brawl mode. Super-powered versions of characters...but that's for a different subject post.

Nah, The Wind Waker Link should replace YLink. He is a pure original. I would like TP Link, however to keep all his old costumes, but also get his new Zora Armor in TP, and maybe even Magic Armor (minus the magic stuff) as alternate costumes.

I think (and am pretty sure) Wario will get his old costume as an alternate costume, and I want to see Mario, Luigi, Wari, and Waluigi if he makes the cut to have each other's costumes (the yellow purple one for Wario). Who doesn't want to play as Wario in Luigi's outfit, or vice versa? That would be funny, Mario=Luigi outfit, Luigi=Wario outfit, Wario=Waluigi outfit, Waluigi=Mario outfit. Or random, ya I'll go with random!

I think diffrent outfits should be more diverse, and maybe more (ex: Bowser and Dk change skin/hair colors, while Kirby and Yoshi come in color variations). Also a good Snake alternate look would be his older version (the upcoming MGS 4: Guns of the Patriots), where he looks like a old man! Also Ganondorf in Link's outfit would be good for a laugh, though I doubt it as a outfit!

 

[NilliX]

Bwahahah! Comedy costumes! Like it! An unlockable feature perhaps?

Do you think G&W will make a return? He seemed like a very high novelty-value player in Melee...but I still think he should make the cut.

The Sausage is brilliant for when someone tries to recover.

Link: "Right...just a bit closer, then I can hookshot the- OH DEAR GOD! MEATS OF HORRORISM!!"

G&W: "Bleep Bleep" (Translation - "You Fail")

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Do you think G&W will make a return? He seemed like a very high novelty-value player in Melee...but I still think he should make the cut.

I feel he SHOULD make the cut as well, but I heard somewhere that him and the IC's were the first to get the axe. :[ sorry

 

[Wrath`]

The ic are one of skuras fovorites i heard,so why would he cut out his favorite?

 

[buddy9246]

* still have to do quick reply >=(*

I dont think its what sakura wants but what everyone else wants.

 

[Wrath`]

Sakurs will do what he wants and we cant change that

 

[FSLMJM]

Luigi is in, no questions asked. The same goes for Bowser, Peach, DK, Yoshi, Zelda, Ness, and Jigglypuff. These characters are too important to Nintendo to get cut.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ness and Jigglypuff have slight changes to be replaced, but I agree that they should come back though. I've no doubt that Luigi will return either, Sakurai only made that comment I think to cause some sort of confusion, and to make sure that it's very unpredictable who stays or who goes...

I still say atleast Dr.Mario, Pichu and Sheik are the most likely characters to be cutted though.

 

[NilliX]

Like HELL Jigglypuff is ever going to get the boot. For the past two games, she's been the reward for sucking your way through 1-player mode, getting on the internet and posting about how your 1337 ski11z got you a Pink Puffball, only to realise that Giga Bowser exists, Crazy Hand wants to play rock, paper, explosions with your face and if you select Zelda and hold A while a match loads, you instantly become a bit better at Melee without requiring any skill!

What a run-on sentence that was. Anyway, face the facts. If Jigglypuff wasn't in Smash, this forum wouldn't even BE here.

(Ignorant and unsupported by voice of opinion) FACT.

 

[W4veMantis]

Yeah, I agree with Nillix. The puff has been in the last two games so I highly doubt they're gonna cut her. I feel the same way about Ness as well. Although, I do agree with Diddy Kong about Doc, Sheik, and Pichu. If they're using TP Link, they're most likely gonna use TP Zelda and that would automatically cut out Sheik.

 

[Rhyme]

I still think only 3D LOZ games' Links have a shot.

The character doesn't have to reside within the third dimension to be up for consideration.

O and Bowserlick, 40+ is confirmed, but I expect 45+ easily.

I believe you would be mistaken, I'd personally be surprised to see more than 40 characters. Some number 32-35 inclusive seems more likely.

And by the way Sakurai even mentioned that Luigi might not return.

Sakurai would say no such thing. Luigi is as much a Mario character as Bowser, and almost as Mario himself.

luigi is going to stay, he's from the original 12, and he's no longer a clone. on top of that, who knows of a game that has mario and bowser, and DOESNT have luigi? im trying to think of one, if anyone knows one, let me know.

A few people beat me to the punch on this. Just to clarify, do you mean games in which Luigi was a playable character? Luigi was not part of Super Mario 64 nor Super Mario Sunshine. While he was in Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door, you could never play as him. There was a badge the player could find later in the game, possibly chapter 7ish, that made you a chubby Mario-esq Luigi(just changed the hue of Mario's cloths and nothing more). You could also talk with Luigi proceding each chapter regarding his "adventures", and he would periodically show up to watch Mario fight. For that matter, I never played Paper Mario for the N64, was Luigi playable in that game?

Luigi may be out for the following reasons.

1. Sakurai said something about Luigi and then added, "if he even returns."
2. Luigi's inclusion seems soley fan based. Meaning he doesn't offer that much uniqueness or originality to the game. On the flip side people will be disappointed if he is not in. (But the question is do you want Luigi occupying another character's spot?)

All in all, I think that if he does return he will either
A) Be extemely different with Mario with perhaps a vacuum based moveset
B) Or be more reminescent to Luigi in the N64 version (slapped into the game at the very end of the process)

Yes, I do want Luigi to occupy the spot of roughly 98% of all characters that Nintendo could possibly choose to add.

But, on a side note, a vacuum related moveset(Luigi's Mansion?) would be an incredibly diverse idea for Nintendo to impliment. I'd be fine with any moveset, from traditional/clonish through uncomprehensibly unique, just so long as Luigi makes it.

I can't, it appears it was in some translation thread, but as an opinion, wereas I thought it was matter of fact (my bad). Apparently no official # of characters was released, and I still feel 40+ is going to happen, easily. Look at the Wii memory and disk memory, it is far better than GC memory and disk memory (plus it's a normal disk, lol!).

O and Super Mario Gaaxy has aliens ('m pretty sure that doesn't include Bowser) abduct Peach, though there was a similar situation with Paper Mario 2, with Bowser still as a main character. (X-Nauts kidnap Peach, and take her to the moon) Then again, I wonder if they will have Luigi tell you weird stories of his "quests" again? Hopefully he isn't slapped last minute again, which he has a good record of that happening to him.

Cough*SPOILER*cough* Plot details precede. I can't wait for the Wii instalment of Paper Mario 2. Hopefully Nintendo will focus more on solid gameplay and less on wiimote functionality, I would hate for them to ruin the old gameplay style.

The new disk and all that extra space could potentially signify nothing more than bulstered graphics or a more in-depth adventure mode, possibly even the extra characters. As far as I am aware, game companies never approach how much memory their disks can support, so added space doesn't necessarily mean anything.

The Sausage is brilliant for when someone tries to recover.

Link: "Right...just a bit closer, then I can hookshot the- OH DEAR GOD! MEATS OF HORRORISM!!"

G&W: "Bleep Bleep" (Translation - "You Fail")

The ic are one of skuras fovorites i heard,so why would he cut out his favorite?

Wrong. It was stated as a side comment within a translation thread that Sakurai tended to favor retro characters because they were fun, unique, and interesting. That doesn't constitute individual favoritizm on any level.

 

[Shieldkrusher]

I'd like to see Roy and Marth return, along with Shiek.

 

[petre]

Like HELL Jigglypuff is ever going to get the boot. For the past two games, she's been the reward for sucking your way through 1-player mode, getting on the internet and posting about how your 1337 ski11z got you a Pink Puffball, only to realise that Giga Bowser exists, Crazy Hand wants to play rock, paper, explosions with your face and if you select Zelda and hold A while a match loads, you instantly become a bit better at Melee without requiring any skill!

What a run-on sentence that was. Anyway, face the facts. If Jigglypuff wasn't in Smash, this forum wouldn't even BE here.

(Ignorant and unsupported by voice of opinion) FACT.

that made me laugh out loud. definitely a fact.

but really, what reason would they have to cut luigi? he's not a clone, he's popular, he has starred in a few games of his own, and he's even a plumber! they'd be crazy to take him out.

 

[Devastlian]

For that matter, I never played Paper Mario for the N64, was Luigi playable in that game?

Nah, he tagged along during the first trip to the castle but when the adventure proper starts he goes back home and waits. After each chapter you can go home and go into the secret basement via your poundy boots and read his diary which was rather personal. :/

Speaking of which...Paper Mario was awesome. We need a VC release. Now-like.

Also, I'm beginning to fall in love with Mewtwo and Zelda, so they should come back. :/

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

My point was that a lot of the bottom tier people aren't as popular and people may not care as much if they go away not necessarily that they will because of that. When it was stated that not everyone was returning instantly Pichu comes to mind as does Dr. Mario seeing as they are lower tier clones. Clones that are low tier are really what you need to look for more is what I'm trying to say I guess.

Doctor Mario is in the Middle Tier...above Mario. The only characters I see in the low and bottom tier that have a high chance of leaving are Pichu, Roy, and Young Link. Mr. G&W...I am not sure about at all. Everyone else is a popular character and has a high chance of returning.

http://www.smashwiki.com/wiki/Tiers

Three characters from the low and bottom tier have been confirmed, one is assumed because he has a stage shown in the trailer, and I doubt they would kick out Zelda or DK. Ness is an icon for the Earthbound series, and he had a cameo in Mother 3 which gives him more importance than the others from the series. Bowser and Mewtwo are villains, so they have a pretty high chance of returning. Luigi has a high chance since he's Mario's brother and has a lot of potential to get different moves. So out of all 14 characters in the low and bottom tier, I only see 3 or 4 leaving, which isn't a lot...unless you think 3 is a lot.

Now, in the middle and higher tier, I only see Sheik and Doctor Mario as possibilities of leaving. Jigglypuff also has a chance of leaving since it no longer has much importance to the series (including the anime). Jigglypuff is mostly popular in Smash now. That makes 3/12 from the middle and higher tiers with a pretty high chance of leaving.

Both sides of the tier list has about the same amount of characters with a somewhat high chance of leaving, if not very high. The only clones with a high chance of returning are Falco and Ganondorf with new movesets. If it's only clones you are talking about, then you are right. But you were talking about the bottom tier. That's all I have to say for now.

 

[Pustulio]

Sakuri will do what he wants and we cant change that

No he will do what the consumer wants because that's how he makes money. If he can make money by cutting someone or by adding someone or say returning someone he will do it because most poeple want to see it.

The whole tier thing was I meant to say like stated in an earlier post of mine is less popular clones will not have as great a chance that's why the whole tier list thing came into the picture because I had an example with Pichu mainly, I said Mewtwo has a good chance because of his uniqueness. (Selective reading, my hell)

Luigi is an interesting topic, I think he has a good chance because of his history in the Mario series and has a couple of his own games like the old PC game Mario's Missing and also Luigi's Mansion. However if he loses popularity and if they run out of use for him (unlikely) he could be cut (unlikely as well).

 

[TGM]

the characters from ssb showed up in ssbm. so i think that those very same ones are 100% sure to be in ssbb. my opinion. the resta re up in the air.

 

[buddy9246]

I'm thinking more of the popular ones are gonna be in. im not sure if they will all return but most should and some should.

 

[MasterGary]

Ok I'm not gonna sit and read all the pages I missed. I just remember some guy posted something about Falco being in it wouldn't do anything to sales or something along those lines. I felt like killing him for insulting Falco like that. Too bad i can't remember the guys name.

 

[buddy9246]

his name is CANARDLY as in you CAN HARDLY TELL WHAT HIS NAME IS. I remember that 2. i think it was the last 2 pages (if you have it on 40 posts / page

 

[Wrath`]

Anyone who disses on roy falco ness or gannon will personaly get there azz whooped by me

 

[MasterGary]

Anyone who disses on roy falco ness or gannon will personaly get there azz whooped by me

I agree with you there except for the part about Ness. Ness doesn't realy intrest me.

 

[buddy9246]

I disagree with all. now I think we need to get back on topic and have TWOK stop posting random garbage on all the threads!

 

[MasterGary]

I disagree with all. now I think we need to get back on topic and have TWOK stop posting random garbage on all the threads!

Buddy for some reason I see you and twok on almost all of the threads that I am regularly on.

 

[Wrath`]

What garbege, Budwiser?

 

[NilliX]

Anyone who disses on roy falco ness or gannon will personaly get there azz whooped by me

Roy's moves bore me. He simply throws his sword around in different directions and I find him quite uninteresting to play as.

Falco, despite having more attacking power and jumping height than Fox, lacks the same reach during recoveries. And even if his blaster has knock-back, the reflector is harder to combo with.

I have no gripe with Ness. Then again I have no praise for him...let me revise this.
*ahem*
I have gripe against Ness! Know why? Well i'll tell you! I don't like Ness because I have no positive points about him! Yes!

Ganondorf, despite insane power and quickness if you use him right, always seems very grumpy and sad. Like a little lost puppy on steroids.


That's all I have to say, and I wouldn't normally groan on about the "faults" these players have, but the challenge was set. And i'm also curious to find out what an "azz" is. Does it sting when you "whoop" it? This Anatomy diagram I have here shows no "azz".

Perhaps a patent is in order! But please, ignore my foolish n00bings, as it were.

 

[buddy9246]

^^ lol nice one nillix

I feel the same way

 

[MasterGary]

Falco, despite having more attacking power and jumping height than Fox, lacks the same reach during recoveries. And even if his blaster has knock-back, the reflector is harder to combo with.

.

You probably just don't have the skill to combo with Falco. If you have the ability to combo and not get sent off the stage so mucht he recovery distance isn't all that bad.

 

[Wrath`]

You know nothing on how to use roy,Im the counter fiend and sword conbing fool,taking out fox

 

[MasterGary]

You know nothing on how to use roy,Im the counter fiend and sword conbing fool,taking out fox

Well you might be able to take out Fox but not Falco

 

[Wrath`]

I will adapt to short hoping drill kicking people.
And i will wait for the right time to counter it.

 

[MasterGary]

I will adapt to short hoping drill kicking people.
And i will wait for the right time to counter it.

You think that's all us Falco's can do? If you do then you have no idea.

 

[NilliX]

You probably just don't have the skill to combo with Falco.

It's not a question of skill, just commitment in learning to use a new character. Especially when I have perfectly good progress under my belt with a certain mammal that Falco was based around, and in my opinion, much better.

 

[buddy9246]

You know nothing on how to use roy,Im the counter fiend and sword conbing fool,taking out fox

you have tried several times and failed at taking out my fox

You think that's all us Falco's can do? If you do then you have no idea.

falco can: drill shine
"bombsoldier" thats what I call it (shine, jump shine, jump drill kick)
plus alot more while all TWOK is: double jump, drill kick, c-stick. he can short hop about 25% and lower with falco.

 

[MasterGary]

It's not a question of skill, just commitment in learning to use a new character. Especially when I have perfectly good progress under my belt with a certain mammal that Falco was based around, and in my opinion, much better.

Good point. But Fox is just barely better than Falco. To me picking Falco and Fox just is a matter of what you like better. Both of them are almost equally good when used right.

 

[buddy9246]

I like fox better because he is fast! for some reason I can't handle slow people. I use sheik, fox, marth, and sometimes jiggly. i do use falco but not often. he is just too slow for me.

 

[MasterGary]

I also use fast people. I use Fox ,Falco C.Falcon and Dr.Mario (for some reason) and I like to play as Mewtwo sometimes just for fun. But for a realy odd reason I want to get good with Mewtwo.

 

[NilliX]

I completely agree. Where Falco doesn't have the (cheapest ever method of) Waveshining helplessly flailing characters into the unknown but seemingly painful realms of "off-screen", e DOES have the illusion-spike. May I say that it's actually the coolest way to get killed in the game? Well I just said it.

That was the one technique I took the time out to perfect. Sure it's an opportunity attack, but it looks hella awesome when you pull one off.

And buddy2946, your character line-up is much the same as mine. I'm also struggling to get good with Marth. He may just swing his blade around, but it's a lot faster than Roy's efforts.