Official SWF Tier List v8

[BlueXenon]

Also her projectile gets beat out by anything with a hitbox then puts the enemy in a neutral state while shes still in cooldown.

I think most of metaknight move's do not beat her projectile.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

The problem isnt slow attacks, its slow mobility and cooldown up the *** on everything. Also her projectile gets beat out by anything with a hitbox then puts the enemy in a neutral state while shes still in cooldown. Also her recovery is SUPER easy to beat, she has no approach options, she cant play safe keepaway, the list goes on.

It depends. Typically, ending lag is nullified if your move actually connects and does enough knockback. Zelda has built in punishing moves because these fast moves also have good knockback/damage as well, but not really anything else. For example, attacking her shield from directly above or close by grants her the ability to actually punish stuff as 8 frame OoS option is actually on par with pretty much any character in the game. A similar thing too is possible with shield drop -> dash attack or just straight walk/dash away and dash attack to punish landings or evaded attacks.

The biggest problem to me is the placement that some of these moves get. Dtilt/Dsmash are super short ranged and hard to hit with therefore. Nair is a pseudo-sex-kick, but also possible to SDI out of. You'll probably hit someone on reaction with a Nair if they get on a platform, but they might just get out with minimal damage too.

 

[| Big D |]

I disagree with the notion that switching to Zelda makes the MU better for Shiek.

You're switching from an even MU to a -2 MU, Zelda loses at neutral. Shiek has the means to put Dedede in bad positions and capitalize off of them., Zelda does not. Dedede's dair beats Zelda's upsmash straight up. Dedede has multiple jumps as well as an incredible fast fall to go with it, in other words he has more than enough maneuverability to not get caught. Zelda losing at neutral also means she's going to get put in bad positions more often to get killed as well as eat more damage.

You are honestly much better off staying Shiek and going for edge guards as opposed to switching to Zelda.

 

[Ghostbone]

Well I don't play Sheilda so I'll take everyone's word for it that Zelda's still garbage even in probably the best situation to use her in.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I may be wrong with this one as I don't really play against other DDDs or Zeldas, but I'm pretty sure that if Sheik gets a decent damage lead against DDD (which she should), knocks him out and switches to Zelda, she can deal with the penguin trying to approach much better than at neutral.

Maybe not to give the duo much of an upper hand, but the combo it's definitely better than both alone. *IMO*

 

[Z'zgashi]

Sheik still stops approaches better though. Those needles destroy landings, power shields, rolls/dodges, etc, her mobility makes it easy to stay away, and her moves are just as fast as Zelda's and are overall better. Idk, I just dont really think theres ever a need to go to Zelda outside of maybe like the ICs MU.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Sheik approaches better.
Zelda deals with approaches better, as in, she herself should not approach (hence why the damage advantage is important in this Matchup).

Sheik has not a real way to kill a DDD until absurdly high percentages (200 at least, not even joking), while Zelda can punish a commitment and get the score much earlier.

It's like a lot of people don't understand Sheik's and Zelda's role in the Shielda character.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Lol we understand it, but it almost always isnt worth it. Sure, she has kill power, but it comes at a HUGE price in that you lose a lot of safety and are going into a high risk, high reward character just to land one attack when your opponent knows that exactly what youre doing when you go into her.

 

[Tesh]

DDD can barely defend himself when he is far off stage. Sheik is better at killing him than Zelda (killing him off the top is one tough thing to do anyway).

Sheik actually has stuff that sends people at low angles and DDD can barely even use his aerials because they are soooooooo laggy he will die if he uses too many.

Its far more practical for sheik to hit with a lightning fast kill move near the edge (nair, dsmash, bair) and kill than it is for a top level player to allow zelda to land her 1 option anywhere.

 

[-LzR-]

Idk, I just dont really think theres ever a need to go to Zelda outside of maybe like the ICs MU.

Why would you do that? D:

 

[Rizen]

DDD isn't a hard character to hit with Zelda and Zelda has good power. Her main problem is approaching and damage racking. Transforming into Zelda isn't too bad vs DDD either, he has the worst air speed in the game. Dtilt>Usmash, Bair/Fair, Nair cancel>smash are easy reads when Zelda has higher ground.

IDK Sheik but when DDD's at kill %s and Zelda has the lead DDD's not bad for her.

 

[Z'zgashi]

No one ever said she was bad in that situation, we're just debating whether or not shes better than Sheik in that situation.

@LzR: why not?

 

[Komatik]

Lol we understand it, but it almost always isnt worth it. Sure, she has kill power, but it comes at a HUGE price in that you lose a lot of safety and are going into a high risk, high reward character just to land one attack when your opponent knows that exactly what youre doing when you go into her.

I curse myself every time I accidentally input transform. Would it have been too much to have the game load both Zelda and Sheik into memory at the same time >_<

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yes.

 

[Rizen]

No one ever said she was bad in that situation, we're just debating whether or not shes better than Sheik in that situation.

than it is for a top level player to allow zelda to land her 1 option anywhere.

Zelda's in a good position and Sheik's not a great character either.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Tesh says everything is bad, that doesnt count.

And Sheik is definitely in a good position if shes forcing D3 to approach lol, doesnt matter if shes a great character or not; if this situation was based off which character was better, Sheik would obv be the better choice lol.

And remember, theres a timer in this game, so in order to win, you dont necessarily need to kill, so is the safety, mobility, better keepaway, and ability to poke to slowly kill better than an all in 'land one move to get the kill, or get read/punished and possibly lose the lead', thats the real question.

 

[infiniteV115]

Transforming into Zelda has its advantages imo

 

[Z'zgashi]

LOL down b OP.

I love how it crashed the game; id bet its because no character was loaded for the results screen.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Transforming into Zelda has its advantages imo

We're talking about singles though.

If that happened in singles what would be the result of the match?

 

[Z'zgashi]

Most likely a reset to the same stocks/percentages as before. That or a full reset of that game. Or a DQ for the game against the Sheilda player for 'making the game unplayable' since youre responsible for 'knowing your character and its gamebreaking glitches'.

So basically its up to the TO.

 

[infiniteV115]

Actually I don't think the game would crash because for the game to end that way in singles, either the opponent would have to die or it would go to a timeout. I think from there it's fair to just follow standard procedure (% difference or 1 stock 3 minute rematch in event of tie, assuming LGL hasn't been broken)

 

[Z'zgashi]

It makes the game unplayable though. Just like Bowser's infinite fall glitch, or much more notably, MK IDC. You literally cant hit them, nor can they hit back, during those, so theyre banned, hence when I said:

Or a DQ for the game against the Sheilda player for 'making the game unplayable' since youre responsible for 'knowing your character and its gamebreaking glitches'.

 

[infiniteV115]

Well that depends on how long is considered too long. You literally can't hit opponents that are standing on the respawn platform, are we gonna force people to get down as soon as possible?
This may just be a bit of ignorance on my part but most Zelda transformations I've seen took less time than the max amount of time you can stand on a respawn platform. Is the transformation time consistently longer than this when transforming during the CS stage transformations?

 

[Z'zgashi]

The respawn timer force drops you after a set time, even holding the ledge has an in game timer. The reason things like Sonic homing dash stalling has been considered for ban is due to some characters not being able to do anything about it. When it comes to these things, the player is impossible to hit with ANYTHING for an infinite amount of time.

 

[infiniteV115]

So you're saying the Sheilda transformation lasts forever on CS?

 

[Z'zgashi]

Lol I thought she was infinitely stuck in transform... lmao. Well. if its just a weird ass glitch that makes her transform last ages, I guess I dont see a problem so long as it DOES end.

 

[Ghostbone]

Since homing attack stall was mentioned, you can force sonic to the side of the stage and hit him.

 

[Z'zgashi]

You actually cant, he has time to move sideways in the air enough to not be forced anywhere.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

The respawn timer force drops you after a set time, even holding the ledge has an in game timer. The reason things like Sonic homing dash stalling has been considered for ban is due to some characters not being able to do anything about it. When it comes to these things, the player is impossible to hit with ANYTHING for an infinite amount of time.

Sounds like players of these characters need to stop being scrubs and get better

 

[pidgezero_one]

So is MK overrated now that there were no MKS in top 4 at SKTAR 2? I don't think I'm pro-ban anymore, but more of a "I can go either way and not john about it" kind of guy.


So I met Shaya IRL yesterday, and it was really nice of him not to rip me a new arse hole when I told him who I was. Anyway he seems like a cool dude and I don't like causing grief for cool dudes so I've made the executive decision to stop posting nonsense in this thread. I'm on pretty much everybody's ignore lists anyway so it won't be a big change. I'm moving onto bigger and better things, like

 

[Seagull Joe]

So is MK overrated now that there were no MKS in top 4 at SKTAR 2? I don't think I'm pro-ban anymore, but more of a "I can go either way and not john about it" kind of guy.


So I met Shaya IRL yesterday, and it was really nice of him not to rip me a new arse hole when I told him who I was. Anyway he seems like a cool dude and I don't like causing grief for cool dudes so I've made the executive decision to stop posting nonsense in this thread. I'm on pretty much everybody's ignore lists anyway so it won't be a big change. I'm moving onto bigger and better things, like

D:

You might be one of the best posters on smashboards though...

 

[Tesh]

Meeting a mod IRL can change you that much?

 

[Shaya]

I have that effect on people.

I just do the job. I have enough love and friendship and peace for everyone.

 

[Yink]

D:

You might be one of the best posters on smashboards though...

She is. I'm literally only here because of Stef. She linked me so I could appreciate all of her posting.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Meeting a mod IRL can change you that much?

Hell no. I've been modding **** for 10 years, meeting another one of me isn't that life-defining. I think it was the accent that did it.

****, I broke my pact already. Uhh... So how about that Snake in 2nd place from WFs? Pretty not-deserving-of-5th, right?

 

[Yink]

I have that effect on people.

I just do the job. I have enough love and friendship and peace for everyone.

I kind of want to unlike this but I know the infraction ticket book you have is close by.

 

[Sinister Slush]

The accent.
Always the accent. Nike's excited glees whenever Shaya talked back when he was in TX. Priceless still.

 

[Ghostbone]

So how about that Snake in 2nd place from WFs? Pretty not-deserving-of-5th, right?

Not that I don't think Snake should be higher, but MK's best placing was 5th (with most of the top MKs attending)
MK for 5th place on the tier list?

 

[Tesh]

MK loses to yoshi, pikachu, marth, snake, olimar, diddy kong and ice climbers. I think 5th is too generous for a character with all those bad matchups

 

[Dekillsage]

omg here we go