Official SWF Tier List v8

[NickRiddle]

And i assume PoR is 8? So 8, 9, 10, 13?

Sorry.
9, 10, 11, 13.

 

[infiniteV115]

For a game as old as melee, I find it hard to think any character is not "explored". Brawl that might have been true in the first couple of years. And it certainly seemed so when you see how the tier list changed. Now, its pretty much ironed out by now. If a character appears good its going to be the player behind them making the right calls and playing well.

aMSa, therefore you're wrong.
Edit: Lol okay I was really just responding to the first sentence.

Peach has been very explored in NA imo. SlayerZ, Illmatic, Nicole, D. Pch. (lol) (+ Praxis, Eedrees, KOS-MOS back in the day). The other two I'd agree with, however.

Maybe we're differing in how we use the word 'explore' but what I meant was that NA Peaches don't really use Peach properly, and I feel that way about all these Peaches except for SlayerZ (and I guess Eedrees and KOS-MOS cause I know nothing about them). EU (Leon, though now he's NA lul) and Japan (Kie) have definitely explored Peach much more efficiently.

 

[Djent]

Wait, Leon is NA now? lol

And yeah, SlayerZ and Kie (maybe also Leon) are easily a cut above the others even if you "control for" the fact that the old players were active at a time when everyone was worse.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Wait, Leon is NA now? lol

Yeah he just moved to Toronto

 

[Shaya]

People really only discovered the true power of buffering within the last 2-3 years, and characters which haven't really had any meta in that time period are just behind.

 

[Thor]

Marth sucks because he's not Metaknight.
When will I stop having to tell people that god damn.

That's not a reason. Sucks is comparative to the rest of the cast, so if you look at Marth, even if he sucks "compared to Meta Knight" he's still currently 5th on the list for a reason. I'm asking why.

And -Lzr-, just what is Lucario tier? Or rather, what does that mean?

I guess no one (but me?) takes this thread seriously for much of anything because of idiotic statements like "Marth is terrible" because they're not only baseless but usually blatantly false.

Now if you'd said JIGGLYPUFF is terrible... well, no complaints here.

 

[NickRiddle]

Marth really is bad though.

 

[Shaya]

Be warned, discussing Marth amongst plebs is like declaring Jesus is the Sun God to the Roman pagans of 1st century CE.

 

[NickRiddle]

Shaya is my favorite poster in this thread.
He always talks about he's going to school people with Marth and show them how good he is.
Then he played me at SKTAR 2.
Surprisingly, at least to him, I still hold the same opinion.

 

[Shaya]

Shaya is my favorite poster in this thread.
He always talks about he's going to school people with Marth and show them how good he is.
Then he played me at SKTAR 2.
Surprisingly, at least to him, I still hold the same opinion.

I only ever talk about schooling people in future tense towards you. Everything else is always past acquisitions
And it was by no surprise that I didn't shift your opinion, that set didn't shift my opinion on how badly Marth wrecks ZSS either~

I'm also the Australian Seibrik. Play me in a best of 19 pleb.

 

[NickRiddle]

I only ever talk about schooling people in future tense towards you. Everything else is always past acquisitions
And it was by no surprise that I didn't shift your opinion, that set didn't shift my opinion on how badly Marth wrecks ZSS either~

I'm also the Australian Seibrik. Play me in a best of 19 pleb.

$100 BO25 next time you're in this silly country.

 

[Shaya]

100 zimbabwe dollars?

Deal.

 

[Thor]

I mean, Marth doesn't "wreck" anyone decent [grab releases and bottom tier maybe?]. He beats everyone by a slight margin or is even with them except for two characters. So I'd hardly expect him to be considered overpowered or whatever, and he doesn't have an "abuse this" mechanic like other top tiers, but he doesn't have that many bad characteristics, and definitely has a few good ones. (RCO lag is not exactly a good thing, but it's not a deal breaker by any stretch, and he has invincible OoS options plus a high-utility disjointed aerial and approach in fair).

 

[Shaya]

RCO lag actually really is a major deal breaker for Marth. People competent in the match up can abuse that so heavily you have no idea.

 

[Thor]

RCO lag actually really is a major deal breaker for Marth.

It's a problem but it's not a reason to put him in D tier or way down low. It's just something that makes getting off the ledge harder than it should be (by a lot) [and rolling on stage risky].

 

[Shaya]

Sometimes RCO makes me think I main a low tier character.

 

[xDD-Master]

People really only discovered the true power of buffering within the last 2-3 years, and characters which haven't

really had any meta in that time period are just behind.

This is incredebly true!

Sometimes RCO makes me think I main a low tier character.

Use more Fair/Nair while landing

 

[ぱみゅ]

And Uair.
I swear it is pretty underused as a walling option.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Marth loses to Bowser though, hes bad.

 

[Shaya]

This is incredebly true!



Use more Fair/Nair while landing

What's that? You have to land with an aerial? You have close to no other option? How could this ever go wrong? It's turning our -3 aerials on shield into -11 (and that's at the optimal landing, where the timing for this situation isn't very difficult to get used to for easy power shields). It's pretty significant even with us doing our best to negate it.

 

[xDD-Master]

Mix up between fast fall nair/fair and normal. Then also side-B landing, which makes it so that you dont "really" have the Bull**** lag (It carries over to the next landing though)

Also space it at max range (obviously), that will make it a lot harder for people to actually punish marth for his bull**** lag.
Not saying that bull**** isnt extremely sitty, but there are some ways around it.


And something you might didnt consider yet: You can use the bull**** lag as a bait too, because you can be pretty sure that your oppenant will try to go for the bull**** lag punish. If you can successfully predict this, you might get your oppenant where you want him.

Of course there are scenarios where marth will be at a disadvantage almost garuanteed, but you should try to make the best out of it :D! (Baiting people for example)


But yeah, loosing the option to air dodge is pretty ****ty, because you will most likely land and have horrible lag, also cant air dodge to ground to grab anymore, which is good at other times because people want to punish stuff on their shield.

 

[Shaya]

I don't have a real reason to elaborate in this thread. But yes, you can do things. You don't need to sit there typing them to me because I could go into considerable more detail about them. But basically the underlying point remains.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Marth is that character I think is solid, but then I keep being reminded MK exists.

 

[1PokeMastr]

What's that? You have to land with an aerial? You have close to no other option? How could this ever go wrong? It's turning our -3 aerials on shield into -11 (and that's at the optimal landing, where the timing for this situation isn't very difficult to get used to for easy power shields). It's pretty significant even with us doing our best to negate it.

Oh ? What -11 from RCO ?

I'm so sorry for your loss.
Wait, no I'm not.


Try landing with Dk in singles.

If you're an expert, land with Dk.. In doubles, go for it. I'm sure it's not as bad as -11.


#DkbeatsMarthanyway

 

[Shaya]

11 is more than enough to kill anyone. And it's probably worse than that

 

[| Big D |]

I wonder if Leon watched the hockey game today.

 

[M@v]

Marth is that character I think is solid, but then I keep being reminded MK exists.

And ice climbers. Unless Marth is perfect and doesnt make any mistakes, its hard for him. Not MK hard, but hard.

 

[Shaya]

Marth v ICs match up is cheesy.
I don't think Marth loses that [badly]. Its basically 8 minutes on a pogo stick. Or maybe the IC player will try to do something other than dash dance like a desync then Marth will actually kill one of them. Everytime I play it its me literally waiting for them to try to set up a desync. But the smart ICs know that doing anything but that doesn't involve grabbing is going to get them killed. God damn this game.

 

[1PokeMastr]

In the end, you get grabbed.
Die.
Get grabbed.
Die.
Get grabbed.
Die.

I wonder how different they would be with Lucario's traction and Kind Dedede's grab.

 

[Shaya]

Playing the MU enough against quite a few players, including my bff vinnie and delux, it doesn't always end with you getting grabbed.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yeah, just you dying.

 

[xDD-Master]

http://smashboards.com/threads/japanese-video-thread.232920/page-94#post-16394029

Kie just too good *-*

(Also look at the doubles results!)

 

[DeLux]

Marth has a sword.
Even MU imo

 

[infiniteV115]

Wait, Leon is NA now? lol

And yeah, SlayerZ and Kie (maybe also Leon) are easily a cut above the others even if you "control for" the fact that the old players were active at a time when everyone was worse.

I'd personally put Leon's peach at the same level of SlayerZ', if not above it, but I don't really have anything to back that up so I'll leave it at that. But I will say that it's still deceptively good, despite how rarely he opts for Peach instead of Marth.

Regardless I think my point stands that NA hasn't really explored Peach very well. SlayerZ and Leon have for sure, but I think it's fair to say Kie is better than each of them by quite a large margin. Kie is the ideal Peach atm I'd say.

 

[Osennecho]

Marth has a sword.
Even MU imo

Roy---Link--- I mean Ganondorf has a sword. Even MU imo.

 

[Shaya]

He used to say "has a sword, -1 match up"

 

[Osennecho]

Well at least he's improving then. He just needs to change it to +1 for ICs.

 

[PKBeam]

MK has a sword, even matchup.

 

[DeLux]

Even or better*

Sheik has a sword too btw

 

[Z'zgashi]

Thats not a sword its a god damn knife.