Official SWF Tier List v8

[Rizen]

IMO Lucas is slightly better than low tiers but w/e.
Also PT>Luigi but like I said, I don't really know Luigi.

In chess I prefer White because I have a very strong beginning game and board control. But black can be good at exploiting weak areas in formation and forcing a bad white player to waste moves trying to avoid losses. In my experience it's more preference than anything else.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Luigi is bad. The only thing hes good for is punishing mistakes, but with how slow he is and how hard it is for him to get in, he rarely gets the chance to even punish mistakes when they do happen, and only ends up getting things going if the opponent either goes in way too hard, does something extraordinarily stupid, gets over confident, or is just playing a worse character.

Imo, Low Mid/Low Tier should look something like:
Sheik/Ness/Yoshi/Lucas > PT > Luigi > Samus > Mario/Bowser > Falcon/Link/Jiggs > Zelda > Ganon

 

[Rizen]

^I mostly agree with that. Except PT>Lucas and Mario with Samus.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Luigi is bad. The only thing hes good for is punishing mistakes, but with how slow he is and how hard it is for him to get in, he rarely gets the chance to even punish mistakes when they do happen, and only ends up getting things going if the opponent either goes in way too hard, does something extraordinarily stupid, gets over confident, or is just playing a worse character.

Imo, Low Mid/Low Tier should look something like:
Sheik/Ness/Yoshi/Lucas > PT > Luigi > Samus > Mario/Bowser > Falcon/Link/Jiggs > Zelda > Ganon

Puff is better than Falcon imo

 

[Z'zgashi]

I combined them with slashes which is me basically saying I think those grouped together could be in any order, so saying Puff > Falcon isnt disagreeing with anything I said.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I combined them with slashes which is me basically saying I think those grouped together could be in any order, so saying Puff > Falcon isnt disagreeing with anything I said.

I'm disagreeing with you by saying Puff>Falcon/Link

Really they shouldn't even be on the same level imo

 

[Z'zgashi]

Im not specifically saying theyre on the same level so much as Im saying I dont have an opinion on the order. There could be a massive gap and I just dont know enough to say my opinion completely agrees atm.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Im not specifically saying theyre on the same level so much as Im saying I dont have an opinion on the order. There could be a massive gap and I just dont know enough to say my opinion completely agrees atm.

Fair enough









Puff for SSSSSSSSSSSSS tier

 

[BSP]

If you think one color is better in chess it means you need to practice the other more.

Nah, old people shrink.

I'm wondering why Luigi is above PT and Lucas? It seems like he should be top of low tier. I admit I don't know Luigi very well and he can be just hell when he gets in but is he really better than PT? Maybe Luigi escapes CGs and that boosts him?

Luigi shouldn't be above PT and Lucas, but he shouldn't be in low tier either.

 

[Ghostbone]

Luigi should both be above PT and Lucas, and be low tier.

(imo top of low tier should be Luigi > Lucas > Ness > PT > Yoshi > Jiggs)

It's not like the positioning of anyone below ROB matters anyway.

 

[Delta-cod]

Lol @ Yoshi's position.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Youre right, he should be lower.

 

[Rizen]

Yoshi's definitely better than low tiers.

I'm disagreeing with you by saying Puff>Falcon/Link

Really they shouldn't even be on the same level imo

No way is Jiggz better than Falcon and Link. Looking at match ups alone shows Link does better (if you believe them)
http://smashboards.com/threads/official-swf-matchup-chart-v3-0.338390/
Link has to work really hard for anything but he does have tools to not be completely shutdown.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Why would you believe the official MU chart when it's completely wrong and stupid?

Puff's spread is something like this, going by general consensus
MK: -4 or -3
ICs: -2
Olimar: -3
Diddy: -2
Marth: -2
Falco: -2
Snake: -3

Link and Falcon's are more like this lol
MK: -4
ICs: -3
Olimar: -3 or -4
Diddy: -3 or -4
Marth: -2
Falco: -3 or -4
Snake: -2

Whole different league.

 

[DeLux]

Link is probs -2 with IC imho

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I really can't see any way that could be true in 2013

 

[infiniteV115]

General consensus among whom? @Grim

 

[Grim Tuesday]

intelligent people who post stuff

you don't have to agree with it 100%, just trying to get across the point that it's clearly a better spread than falcon/link

 

[DeLux]

Link has a sword and items

I'm surprised the matchup isn't even or better to be honest

 

[infiniteV115]

I wouldn't be surprised if dthrow --> dtilt on Link killed him at 0% from the middle of FD

 

[DeLux]

That's an exercise in hyperbole

or you're very gullible

 

[Rizen]

Grim what Links have you played?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

None.
And even if I had played a good Link, I'd only be able to comment on the Jigglypuff/Link match-up, and maybe a few others (MK, ICs, G&W, ROB). I'm very confident that I'd win in all of those match-ups though because Link is absolutely horrendous in almost every single way.

 

[DeLux]

He has a sword and items though

 

[Gardex]

Link isn't completely hopeless vs ICs.

Because of, you know, sword and items

 

[Aidebit]

You know who else has a sword and items, and goes arguably even with IC's?

Toon Link.

 

[Gardex]

You know who doesn't have both a sword and items?

Metaknight

 

[Rizen]

TL has a +1 on ICs according to the chart. Link is -2.
Link can do a lot with platform camping and bombs vs ICs including cover landings with bombs, which helps make up for his poor air speed. If Link bans FD, which he should, he always has a way to avoid being on the same level as ICs. ICs still have a decent way to chip at Link's damage %. His sword really isn't too great in this MU although Link can wall with Fair.
The big reasons ICs win +2 is their payoff is so high even with SoPo. Link doesn't have a great way to KO and the MU gets bad when he loses the lead. ICs have a good shot at taking the lead at any point in the MU. ICs have considerably more control in this MU. Loosing Brinstar really sucks for Link too.

None.
And even if I had played a good Link, I'd only be able to comment on the Jigglypuff/Link match-up, and maybe a few others (MK, ICs, G&W, ROB). I'm very confident that I'd win in all of those match-ups though because Link is absolutely horrendous in almost every single way.

The MU chart is good IMO; I could nit-pick a few things but I can't complain. I think if good players play MUs they almost always can agree with a +/-1 at most difference.
You're going to have to accept Link has been PRed in tough regions like NY (Kirinblaze), Rhode Island (LordXav1e, 2nd place) and other places
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/power-rankings-directory-updated-6-9-2013.278504/
and he gets tourney results
http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=118766
And has the MU spread shown
http://smashboards.com/threads/official-swf-matchup-chart-v3-0.338390/
for reasons. You have to respect other character players' experience.
Some people have played him for years and actually learned how to use him. I'm not saying he's good; Link belongs as the 4th or 5th worst character. But he can actually do things and is better than you think. For example if Link was -3 or -4 to Diddy, as you claim, I shouldn't have a SoCal PR Diddy at 154% last stock. It's -2 Link, like the chart shows.

The first time a player plays a really good _________ character main it opens their eyes. I've had my eyes opened and taken a serious beating by many a good player of good and trash characters. I used to think Link had a +2 on Ganon before playing DLA.

The only character who gets more BS than Link is MK.

 

[NickRiddle]

Wifiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Yeah, um, wifi. Suddenly don't care about anything else you said.

 

[Rizen]

^Try playing a good Link and post a video because words are cheap. Sorry but you can't magically know MUs. I only care about experience and I'm not seeing it.

@Nick and Grim I challenge you to post evidence to prove me wrong and yourselves right. You're just covering your own ignorance.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Link is underrated. Bad, but underrated.

Jiggs is just flat-out terrible though. And Yoshi is definitely not too low wtf.

 

[Gardex]

 

[Z'zgashi]

Mario with Samus.

Just now saw this (missed it somehow lol), and I can tell you as someone who plays tons of both Mario and Bowser, they are VERY close to each other in viability, and honestly, I think Bowser is PROBABLY overall a more solid character, but not by much. Maybe Samus/Mario/Bowser could all be grouped together, but idk, I just feel like Samus is a bit better overall (but maybe this is my bias as a Yoshi/Bowser player, since Samus kind of poops on those two).

 

[Grim Tuesday]

^Try playing a good Link and post a video because words are cheap. Sorry but you can't magically know MUs. I only care about experience and I'm not seeing it.

@Nick and Grim I challenge you to post evidence to prove me wrong and yourselves right. You're just covering your own ignorance.

I can't just magic up videos and experience yo

but you shouldn't think that almost beating jebus in a wifi best of 3 is any better than my theorycraft and opinion lol, cause I clicked on that video and saw you starting the match with a charged arrow followed by a running up smash and closed it pretty much straight afterwards

 

[Rizen]

I can't just magic up videos and experience yo

but you shouldn't think that almost beating jebus in a wifi best of 3 is any better than my theorycraft and opinion lol, cause I clicked on that video and saw you starting the match with a charged arrow followed by a running up smash and closed it pretty much straight afterwards

I would take wifi over your offline based on these grand finals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N96ko_YPr5c
The MK SDs at 1:29. He dies by taunting so you rest him 14:32 and he punishes a missed rest by the 1st hit of Ftilt only 13:07 and dies from being Fsmashed for it..

I'm trying not to troll or bash regions and focus on game play. You think Puff is great because your opponents are terrible. This was a grand finals.

_______________
Bottom line is I make the best of a bad situation and I'm a better player for it. There's plenty of offline videos of Link even if my regions terrible at keeping videos. Game play and results vs good people>theory.

I'm sick of this; I'm done. So much ignorant hating. Believe whatever makes you happy.

 

[xDD-Master]

Meanwhile in Japan:

Singles Bracket

1: Kamemushi
2: Misaka
3: Kie
4: Otori
5: Brood
5: Kakera
7: Nietono
7: Daiki
9: Nyanko
9: Shogun
9: Arc (Luminous)
9: Choco
13: Abadango
13: Nariyasu
13: Rain
13: Shoot

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I was sandbagging most of those matches. Notice how i didn't use bananas. That jab gimp was pretty funny. But yeah, link diddy is about -2. He lives for ever and doesn't have to approach

 

[1PokeMastr]

Told you Captain Falcon was viable.

He probably used at least 200 Falcon punches.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Nyanko, aka, the Japanese reincarnation of Will.