Official SWF Matchup Chart v3.0

[PKBeam]

I hope you're kidding ; ;

Wolf is so bad

1v1 me ill 99-stock you with wolf

 

[DeLux]

Wolf is pretty broken >_>

 

[PKBeam]

Wolf is pretty broken >_>

Stupid Fsmash.

 

[Shaya]

Well yeah, it is pretty stupid.
If you have a move that is -13 or more on shield, then you're basically ****ed.

 

[PKBeam]

well nair is 0 so suck it wolf.

 

[Desu~]

Really guys, if we want to have an extraordinary match-up chart next time, we should definitively get people like him to analyse everything there is about the game.

 

[PKBeam]

Really guys, if we want to have an extraordinary match-up chart next time, we should definitively get people like him to analyse everything there is about the game.

I can make one for you guise

 

[Deleted member 189823]

What's up with the MU ratios changing before new versions are released?

 

[infiniteV115]

What are you talking about

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

What's up with the MU ratios changing before new versions are released?

If the MU ratios didn't change we wouldn't need to release a new version now would we?

 

[PKBeam]

They're not even ratios anymore...
they're numbers

 

[Deleted member 189823]

If the MU ratios didn't change we wouldn't need to release a new version now would we?

Bowser is -2 with Peach and so is Falco is -2 with ICs, when they were both -1 when this new version came out. Just to point out an example.

This isn't the first time I've seen this done.

 

[infiniteV115]

Falco has been -2 against ICs on all 3 charts. If he was, for whatever reason, initially -1 on the V3 chart but then the image got changed to show -2, then it's definitely because the -1 was a typo/error that they corrected after noticing (ie when the v3 discussions took place, Falco:ICs was left as -2 but then when making the image it was incorrectly listed as -1 so they corrected this after noticing)

I don't even remember ever seeing this be the case but I guess you're claiming Falco was originally -1 against ICs on the v3 chart. Any changes like this that occurred were almost definitely typos/errors (ie the number put on the image did not match the number agreed upon during the v3 discussions)

 

[1PokeMastr]

I thought Falco was +2 against Ice Cribbersa.

 

[Z'zgashi]

ICs **** Falco.

Douglas tho.

 

[KAP22714]

Falco loses to Sopo imo

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Falco sucks. Loses to everyone. Almost as bad as Fox tbh.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I will always wonder why people are so bad at punishing Falco's Illusion.
The only ones that punish it at top level are MKs because they hold Tornado, but that's about it.

 

[Espy Rose]

It's probably because other characters aren't Meta Knight.

 

[-LzR-]

People need to use those meaty moves more and phantasm won't be that much of a problem.

 

[ぱみゅ]

People need to get better at timings.
Phantasm is ridiculously easy to anticipate and punish.

 

[Nemy]

I slowly lose faith in a player when theyre getting hit by, or not punishing, phantasm.

I will say some Falcos are good about not being TOO obvious about it though.

 

[-LzR-]

Phantasm isn't that easy to punish. It's just that 99% of Falcos always do it on the exact same situations and generally being stupidly predictable with it.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Is it stupid if people suck at countering it tho?

 

[Espy Rose]

People need to get better at timings.
Phantasm is ridiculously easy to anticipate and punish.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Desu~]

You just can't really punish an unpredictable phantasm in my book.

 

[Shaya]

Protip(s):
4 different variations of length that are not possible to react to individually
The keen observer may notice that phantasms are being used as a response to reading/reacting to a shield or the opponent inputting an action (such as jumping, spot dodging, etc).

In other words, unless its a situation in which you're forced into it, a good Falco is using it as a cross stage punish to your ****tness, and being **** against Falco is pretty easy when his lasers, rolls, jab and dash attack (and .the buffering of all these things between each other) are ****ing amazing.

tl;dr What espy said, you don't know what you're talking about

 

[Espy Rose]

You forgot to mention spot dodge.

 

[ぱみゅ]

While I agree onstage phantasm is a very viable tool (when not predictable), I was mostly talking about the offstage Phantasm used for recovery. Seriously, Falco runs out of options when recoverying.
A Falco forced to be offstage should not be coming back, at least without some damage.

 

[Espy Rose]

Are you even reading your own posts? I'm seriously doubting that you are even aware of what you're saying.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

While I agree onstage phantasm is a very viable tool (when not predictable), I was mostly talking about the offstage Phantasm used for recovery. Seriously, Falco runs out of options when recoverying.
A Falco forced to be offstage should not be coming back, at least without some damage.

even though he can mix-up between different heights, mix up if he's going for the ledge or not, mix-up the length of the phantasm
+ the fact that sometimes the falco will still have his jump, or be knocked super high, etc...

 

[ぱみゅ]

You can position yourself to cover at least some of the different lengths (unless your character has poor reach/mobility).
React to the activation height (unless you have poor reaction time). This would also cover his option to go to the ledge.
If he has his jump and you're unsure if he'll go to the ledge or the stage, you can throw a move with less than 20 frames of ending lag. (unless you don't have one, if there is any character like that).

Illusion has the Hurtbox BEFORE the Hitbox, almost any well-timed Jab or multi-hit move will beat it.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

then he can just go through you once the hitbox for your move disappears in lieu of ze ledge

face it dude, it's not as easy as you're saaaayiiing

 

[PKBeam]

just read him or try to get him offstage at or below stage height
is that so hard?

 

[Nemy]

It really is as easy as he is saying though. lol.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Yet despite how easy it apparently is, and how

A Falco forced to be offstage should not be coming back, at least without some damage.

we do not see that level of punishment at top level play? how strange

I'm not saying falco has a good recovery, but it's not something you can just react to and auto-beat

 

[Espy Rose]

No, No Grim. It's 100% punishable on reaction each and every time, regardless of your character, the stage, the varieties, and the speed at which it comes out, and everyone who says otherwise is bad.

So says kyo, the pinnacle of Falco's counter-meta.

 

[ぱみゅ]

But it is reactable, it is literally the only option he has offstage except for Fire Falco, which is even worse. Look for the moment he stops mid-air, that's a lot of frames he's stuck in that position.

And I already said your character can be a factor.
Varieties should not be a problem if your character has enough range.
And lol, stages stopped being a factor two years ago.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

mm my falco
or any falco that knows what they're doing

would be pretty cool to see

 

[Shaya]

If you're attempting to prepare to punish Falco's phantasm as a recovery option, you're most often leaving Falco the COMPLETE FREEDOM to just fire bird. There aren't that many (read: MK maybe) characters that can consistently cover both.