Official SWF Matchup Chart v3.0

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Woah, woah...Go home sir, your obviously drunk.

His obviously drunk what?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

In terms of pikas MU chart overall. My opinion has been:
slight disadvantage: Diddy, Olimar, ICs
Neutral : Marth, MK, Peach, ROB, (GW, Lucario, Wario, Kirby)
-others-

I think Olimar and ICs are more than just slight disadvantages and whether you wanna accept it or not ... results clearly back up the claim that MK solidly beats Pikachu.

 

[Laem]

Just noticed this chart has marth vs ICs even
wuuuuuuuut

 

[DeLux]

Marth has a sword, makes sense to me!

 

[Rizen]

The good/bad scale in tiers:
SS: God
S/A+: Uber Broken
A-/B: Hella Broken
C+: Broken
C/C-: Balanced
D: Bad
E: Worse
F: Terrible
http://smashboards.com/threads/official-swf-tier-list-v8.335959/

 

[Komatik]

The good/bad scale in tiers:
SS: God
S/A+: Uber Broken
A-/B: Hella Broken
C+: Broken
C/C-: Balanced
D: Bad
E: Worse
F: Terrible
http://smashboards.com/threads/official-swf-tier-list-v8.335959/

Odd scale, IMHO. Or at least uses the word broken way too damn liberally. Wouldn't Sirlin-style tiering be better? 'cause at least to me S tier implies that something is very horribly wrong, and C Tier doesn't sound "balanced" but rather "lacking". Then again we have pros like Justin Wong using ranks like SSS in freaking Street Fighter 4, which flatly doesn't have an S Tier. There's two characters in A+ and that's it. Such liberal use of S Tier/God tier invalidates the whole meaning of the term. It shouldn't be normal, it should be an indication of severe, severe problems.

S: God tier / Broken / Invalidates the rest of the cast. Prime example ST Akuma.
A: Solid top tier characters.
B: Midtier characters
C: Lacking characters
D: Trash tier, basically unusable.

 

[Rizen]

^I was making a joke
I didn't give the tiers those letters (see the link), I just labeled borderline tier as balanced and worked from there.

 

[Komatik]

Yeah I know, too goddamn many subtiers with their own letter grades for my mental health.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I dont think you guys understand how tier grouping works.

 

[Rizen]

I dont think you guys understand how tier grouping works.

^I was making a joke

Someone needs to close this thread.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I was making a statement that wasnt directly addressing your post. But nonetheless I agree, this thread should be closed, its awful.

 

[NickRiddle]

Close every thread.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Just close the whole website imo

 

[NickRiddle]

CrashBoards

 

[xDD-Master]

kam nie an

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Lucario needs to be bottom tier already.

 

[BaPr]

Pit seems like a pretty balanced character. Me likey

 

[Funkmasterblitz]

I agree Pit is pretty decent.

 

[BaPr]

Poor Ganon. The only even match up is himself.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Poor Ganon. The only even match up is himself.

Ganon loses that MU imo.

 

[infiniteV115]

Poor Ganon. The only even match up is himself.

Yeah he ****ing wrecks everybody else omg someone please ban him

 

[Ghostbone]

Ganon probably goes even with Zelda and Falcon.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Yeah he ****ing wrecks everybody else omg someone please ban him

I am going to Literally configure your phone to autocorrect "your" to "you're" when you aren't looking

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

How would the pikachu matchup with falco fair if remove said chain grab. I believe it is even. Now, what does pichu have to lead into grab? Run up grab/shield grab is all I cab think of.

 

[Shaya]

Well without the chain grab on Pikachu, Falco would do even more abysmally.

Pichu would likely kill himself chain grabbing anyone in the Brawl cast.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Phone hate writing out full things. But, I am wondering falco's ability to avoid being grabbed vs pikachu.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Falco doesn't even do *that* bad against Pikachu. Like, it's +2 Pika with the CG and Falco would go at least even with Pikachu without it.

 

[BaPr]

Why does Pit have a -1 when put against Marth? He has a longer sword which gives him more range in attacks, can (annoyingly) Up B through any of his attacks, has the ability to jump far enough to attack Pit in helpless mode (when using that recovery), and since we use small stages, Pit's arrow isn't much of a problem. I say move it to a -2.

 

[Ghostbone]

Because there's more to the matchup than the range of a few attacks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVA8SSn7BnY
It's not that bad for Pit. Arrows are good for racking up damage, refreshing moves and forcing marth to approach.

And your comment about his recovery is just wrong, pit can easily glide over or under the stage against marth to get to the ledge/on stage (at least when not on Yoshi's Island)

 

[BaPr]

I know he can glide, but I meant is when he is specifically using his Up B to get on stage. And it isn't just a few of his attacks, Pit has worse range than Marth on all his attacks excluding his arrow.

 

[-LzR-]

It's because of you people who think range is everything that people consider Marth a toptier.

 

[Ghostbone]

Link outranges Wario
Link > Wario


On Wario, Marth, and range, why is that matchup still -2 when gluttony can take two sets in a row against Leon.
Like the matchup's perfectly winnable for Wario (he has a bunch of good traits against marth, like how he can air-dodge inside marth easily, juggle with uairs which do ridiculous damage and link into themselves and kill at later %s, killing earlier in general, waft, bike edgeguards, bite stock trades, etc.), 0 or -1 at least.

 

[-LzR-]

Wario is so mobile he makes it really hard for Marth to keep him out. His walls requires precise timing and messing up even slightly means Wario is in your face where your only option is upB.
-2 because fair has good range.

 

[Dekillsage]

Falco wouldn't lose to pikachu if pikachus chaingrab wasn't present. Unless someone can explain to me how pikachu beats falco at neutral, and how hard he hits falco once he's won neutral without it.

It's because of you people who think range is everything that people consider Marth a toptier.

It's great!

Link outranges Wario
Link > Wario


On Wario, Marth, and range, why is that matchup still -2 when gluttony can take two sets in a row against Leon.
Like the matchup's perfectly winnable for Wario (he has a bunch of good traits against marth, like how he can air-dodge inside marth easily, juggle with uairs which do ridiculous damage and link into themselves and kill at later %s, killing earlier in general, waft, bike edgeguards, bite stock trades, etc.), 0 or -1 at least.

Better players will win -2/-1 MUs all the time. It's hard to tell if a match up just isn't as bad as people say it is, or if the players are in different levels of skill.
Also a MU being -2 is never unwinnable, something in the -3 range is more an unwinnable status

 

[-LzR-]

Falco wouldn't lose to pikachu if pikachus chaingrab wasn't present. Unless someone can explain to me how pikachu beats falco at neutral, and how hard he hits falco once he's won neutral without it.

Crawl under lasers = -4 wouldn't play again

 

[Dekillsage]

Snake can do that too. Doesn't help

 

[infiniteV115]

Pretty sure I said this already but Leon thinks the Marth:Wario MU is +1 for Marth, not +2. He said maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe +2 on FD but that's it

 

[pidgezero_one]

The F in Flaoc stands for Free (and also Flaoc)

 

[Funkmasterblitz]

Ganon probably goes even with Zelda and Falcon.

I think both of them have a slight advantage on him.

 

[Ghostbone]

Better players will win -2/-1 MUs all the time. It's hard to tell if a match up just isn't as bad as people say it is, or if the players are in different levels of skill.
Also a MU being -2 is never unwinnable, something in the -3 range is more an unwinnable status

Leon is one of the best Marths out there, when he's getting consistently beaten, I don't see how you can arrive at the conclusion that Marth significantly beats Wario.