Official SWF Matchup Chart v2.0

[KillerAP]

You didn't even pronounce it properly you scrub

jale

 

[SoulPech]

pidgezero,

I need your picture plz. the v7 got locked (copy paste images :'( ) and I need your pic to derail a thread!

 

[Jabejazz]

Yo I got this.

http://imgur.com/Z5u28o9

 

[SoulPech]

Yo I got this.

http://imgur.com/Z5u28o9

you've done god's work. the problem is I can't resize the image. I'll do that when I get off of work.

 

[Tesh]

charts are stupid anyway for something like this.

no matter what you release, a bunch of people are going to spend 200 pages talking about whats wrong with it and a handful of you will defend it with varying levels of stupid arguments.

 

[Luco]

Eh, I like charts as they allow me to think on MUs when i'm going into them.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It can help to let people discuss the differences they have with the MU chart to what they think, nothing wrong with that.

Pointless? meh, I say let people talk about what they want to talk about.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I want to talk about floac

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I want to talk about floac

If you're going to express your desire to move to Toronto, at least do it right, gosh

Anyway Flaoc's only losing matchup imo is Jigglypuff, and Captain Flanoc is even.

Flaoc beats everyone else.

 

[blacktwins13]

Oh umm, well if I do go to BAM it'll be on the 17th or 18th of May but there is suddenly a chance I may not be able to go. If I can't, then i'll be at the october one, which from memory I think is... the 11th/12th? :/

EDIT: Yeah it's 11th-13th of october, that second one. I'll give you guys a heads up which one i'm going to. Maybe with some luck I can make it to both of them!

so luco confirmed for BAM yet?

 

[Luco]

so luco confirmed for BAM yet?

I'm definitely going!

Whether they have livestream is more iffy. If they do, great, if not, ah well you can watch it afterwards. :3

 

[pidgezero_one]

I want to talk about floac

flaoc use phnotasem
flaoc job
Flaoc spam loser a lot.

 

[Luco]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF2qhWJOzYo

Olimar for -1? o.O

 

[NickRiddle]

Logic for ass at the MU. Hold up during dair to not get spiked, and stop falling into ****ing u-smashes.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF2qhWJOzYo

Olimar for -1? o.O

+4 Lucas ezpz

 

[Luco]

Logic for *** at the MU. Hold up during dair to not get spiked, and stop falling into ****ing u-smashes.

Usmashes I can sympathise with but he did get out of several Dairs. Is he expected to get out of every one? Legit question.

 

[Dekillsage]

Usmashes I can sympathise with but he did get out of several Dairs. Is he expected to get out of every one? Legit question.

Yes. You can hold up and you will sdi out of dair unless its only the last hit of dair that hit you and even then you can tech the ground after dair. There is no reason you should get locked by lucas ever

 

[SKID!]

can anyone tell me why marth is even with dk? i feel as though his speed and ability to combo him edges his ridiculous strength. I also feel as though he can counter most of DK's options and that DK has to play more off of reads than marth does. Although marth does have a hard time killing dk, he usually has some fresh moves (due to use of fair, dancing blade and dtilt) so a switch up for the kill (such as a nair or a smash for a punish )wouldnt be too much a problem. Also considering range, they are fairly close i feel as though this should be a +1 in marth's favor 6:4. If im wrong about something dont be afraid to tell me!

 

[Shaya]

DK not back airing while making you play as if he is going to is the main argument for even.
Back air is long ranged and controls a lot of space, but cannot afford to whiff or hit shield (but he's virtually safe until that happens if he's in the air). Reaction speed traps from fast falls keeps Marth in line.

I think marth has a slight advantage though.

 

[NickRiddle]

Usmashes I can sympathise with but he did get out of several Dairs. Is he expected to get out of every one? Legit question.

With that much practice vs. a Lucas... yes.

 

[FirestormNeos]

PICTURE, Y U NO SHOW?

 

[Luco]

Yes. You can hold up and you will sdi out of dair unless its only the last hit of dair that hit you and even then you can tech the ground after dair. There is no reason you should get locked by lucas ever

Even M2K has been put into the lock by Nasty tmk.

With that much practice vs. a Lucas... yes.

By that logic, someone playing as DK will learn not to get grabbed by D3 ever if they play against them enough. I respect that he got Dtilt locked like, thrice(? Could be more but i'm not sure) but a Dtilt lock is exactly like a grab with a few more fallacies - I don't think you can avoid every one all the time.

But I respect that I may indeed be wrong... it just feels like you're assuming Lucas has no tools because he's 'trash tier'. He probably is, who am I to say, but I reckon he has so many gimmicks that a few of them are bound to work occasionally.

=/

 

[~ Gheb ~]

By that logic, someone playing as DK will learn not to get grabbed by D3 ever if they play against them enough.

... no

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

By that logic, someone playing as DK will learn not to get grabbed by D3 ever if they play against them enough.

Actually, to assume that would mean assuming that the player who plays Lucas will never EVER get hit by Dair. EVER.


Under ANY circumstances.

 

[Tikao]

even if you would be able to like dodge everything
think of frame traps ... you can be as good as you want, if you get frame-trapped, you'll get hit

 

[-LzR-]

I can't remember the last time Lucas managed to even hit me with a full dair. That thing doesn't even combo into itself, just hold a direction and boom you are out. So much for the lock.

 

[Luco]

The point is that it's a gimmick haha. It's not expected to work every time or even most of time - but it doesn't need to work all the time, just occasionally.

My brother and I play a heck of a lot. Now granted that we're both low level players, but as long as i'm pulling off the Dairs and my brother knows how to get out, it should theoretically work to some degree right? You'd think it'd never work against my brother. And a lot of the time it doesn't. But really occasionally I just throw it out and he doesn't react or his head's not in the game or he's expecting something else or any number of things and it just connects and puts him in the lock.

He has hundreds upon hundreds, thousands upon thousands of hours against a Lucas main and he still gets hit by it? Like, you'd think if it was THAT much of a gimmick even low level players would be able to adjust to it that well right?

I dunno, i'm low level myself, maybe i'm just really stupid and maybe my brother is too.

But Logic is a high/top player and has a good amount of Lucas experience. Either he's bad at the MU (your opinion, which is totally viable) or Dair to the tilt lock may have some practicality (my view which is also viable). The reason I reckon it's the latter is because Logic has played against PF heaps and until that point would consistently win. you'd think he'd have to be somewhat good at the MU (considering PF has been considered a top 5 Lucas for a long time) to be winning but...

*sigh*

@Mewtwo: Am I reading wrong? The Lucas... will never get hit by Dair? His own? Or wha? Waiitttt.... okay nup i'm confused hehe.

 

[NickRiddle]

Luco, you said that a DK will learn to never get grabbed my a D3 if it learns the MU... He's saying that'd be like people never getting hit by any hit of Lucas's dair.

Also, yes, he SHOULD get out of it 99% of the time. Unless the first two hits miss, you have PLENTY of time to REACT to the dair and DI/tech.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Even M2K has been put into the lock by Nasty tmk.

By that logic, someone playing as DK will learn not to get grabbed by D3 ever if they play against them enough. I respect that he got Dtilt locked like, thrice(? Could be more but i'm not sure) but a Dtilt lock is exactly like a grab with a few more fallacies - I don't think you can avoid every one all the time.

But I respect that I may indeed be wrong... it just feels like you're assuming Lucas has no tools because he's 'trash tier'. He probably is, who am I to say, but I reckon he has so many gimmicks that a few of them are bound to work occasionally.

=/

It's easy to SDI 's Dair unless you're a fast faller. It's hard to avoid grabs when you're a fatass.

But Logic is a high/top player and has a good amount of Lucas experience. Either he's bad at the MU (your opinion, which is totally viable) or Dair to the tilt lock may have some practicality (my view which is also viable). The reason I reckon it's the latter is because Logic has played against PF heaps and until that point would consistently win. you'd think he'd have to be somewhat good at the MU (considering PF has been considered a top 5 Lucas for a long time) to be winning but...

*sigh*

@Mewtwo: Am I reading wrong? The Lucas... will never get hit by Dair? His own? Or wha? Waiitttt.... okay nup i'm confused hehe.

His nerves were getting to him so he didn't hold up. Logic has a tendency to either punish/read hard or randomly get *****. He doesn't really have in betweens.

With , it's actually harder to SDI 's Dair, but I am still able to do it consistently vs Pink Fresh. I never get locked unless he Dairs in an unconventional way or Bair spikes to on stage lock (Harder to pull off of course).

 

[Luco]

Luco, you said that a DK will learn to never get grabbed my a D3 if it learns the MU... He's saying that'd be like people never getting hit by any hit of Lucas's dair.

Also, yes, he SHOULD get out of it 99% of the time. Unless the first two hits miss, you have PLENTY of time to REACT to the dair and DI/tech.

Well I was comparing it to your statement but I think I see what you mean now.

@Seagull: Well another point that stems off what I was saying was that, if he had won against PF so often I wouldn't have expected him to be so nervous. He even played PF in winners finals and knocked him out into losers, you know?

But I suppose close games + seeing PF at GFs + general nerves when you're trying to maintain a positive record against someone made him slip up?

 

[Shouxiao]

Poor Ganon. He has all bad matches with no single advantage.

 

[Luco]

Poor Ganon. He has all bad matches with no single advantage.

He's okay - for some reason all the big ganon mains seem to be content with him where he is - so he's not truly left out or disrespected or anything, he just happens to be bottom tier.

Honestly Puff and Zelda seem to get more disrespect. :3

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

He's okay - for some reason all the big ganon mains seem to be content with him where he is - so he's not truly left out or disrespected or anything, he just happens to be bottom tier.

Honestly Puff and Zelda seem to get more disrespect. :3

That is because they are terrible and deserve the disrespect they get. Unlike gannon. Although jigglypuff is sssssssss+ TIER.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Yes. You can hold up and you will sdi out of dair unless its only the last hit of dair that hit you and even then you can tech the ground after dair. There is no reason you should get locked by lucas ever

tbh by that logic there's no reason you should get by almost anything in this game

 

[Dekillsage]

tbh by that logic there's no reason you should get by almost anything in this game

I didn't say he shouldn't get hit
I said you shouldn't get put into a lock because you have all the options you'd ever need to make it irrelevant.

 

[infiniteV115]

It really isn't that hard to get out of it. I've only played a Lucas twice in bracket in my life. I was able to tech the dair the 2nd time. XD

 

[KillerAP]

It really isn't that hard to get out of it. I've only played a Lucas twice in bracket in my life. I was able to tech the dair the 2nd time. XD

jale

 

[da K.I.D.]

Logically, I would say that people shouldnt be getting dair locked by lucas anymore at all. because you can sdi or tech to get out of it, but at the same time, I still see players at my level or better eating every single hit of pikachus down smash. sooooo idk. i guess its just one of those things where you dont know until somebody tells you. and if youre not told what to do about it, it could be hard to figure out and you might not know.

in the situation at hand. i agree in that nobody good with that much exp against a character should be not DIing out of a move and not teching a move that has so much warning to it.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Watched the Logic vs. FP set. He got hit by 2? usmashes that were both really surprising and clever (to me, anyway). It's no worse than falling into an Ike smash attack or DK anything, so I'll forgive him for that, can't say they wouldn't have hit me. As for the dairs, I counted one that I think eh should have escaped. He hit him with a few others. In most cases, he wasn't hit by the firs thit of dair and only the subsequent hits, which might have again, surprised him or thrown off his timing.

Despite the fact that Logic fell into a few gimmicks, I think you guys are over-reacting to it. PF was lucky that Logic didn't DI out of one or two of his gimmicks, but to be honest PF was playing at an extremely high level that day IMO and I think he'd have won out regardless.

 

[Jaedrik]

Can anyone explain Marth vs Kirby MU to me please? I keep getting bodied by Kirby's insane grab range, every time I try to dancing blade punish he escapes easily or it can't get out in time, and I don't know what to do vs Kirby's Bair and dash attack approaches, and I can handle his fair approach with a nair just fine. Oh, and of course Marth's standard problems with being juggled. I really can't see why it's -1 for Kirby as of now. Er, sorry if this isn't where I should be asking this, I just realized it could belong somewhere else (though I don't know where).