Official SWF Matchup Chart v2.0

[Iota]

If Marth is doing it in that kind of situation then he's an idiot. I thought were referring to jiggz being able to punish him when you're high up in juggle/air camp position.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

idk, I just love to land with Uair as Marth

I was referring specifically to this, can't blame me. I even said "uair as he is landing" in my post

Puff can't punish anyone in that situation unless they get greedy (Meta Knight trying to shuttle loop and getting dair'd for it is a common example), which is why uair will never hit, she won't go anywhere near Marth and he doesn't have the mobility to catch her

 

[| Big D |]

Did Pidge just successfully troll you guys?

This post was a bit early.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I knew Pidge wasn't serious, I just felt like talking about something.

 

[ぱみゅ]

lol I did never landed with it when she was grounded or close to the ground, it's a bad option against any character. Mostly when she was too high up.
As I said, nothing serious happened, but it added some pressure to the juggle.

Spoiler

I know she was bad, she started playing Jigglypuff like 2 weeks earlier, and that day we played MANY matches (I could figure stuff things about Jiggz that day, though), me with several characters, she sticked to Puff most of the time.
After a while she started punishing dumb stuff with the tip of Bair (needless to say, it's MUCH longer than it looks), and resting my air/spotdodges after reading them (I never did either of them after that against her)...
So yeah, she would've become a very good player if she (or our entire community for that matter) would've played more.

I was referring specifically to this, can't blame me. I even said "uair as he is landing" in my post

maybe I worded it wrong.
I love to Uair, but I try not to get predictable with it (it is terrible for Marth to get predicted with any non-Fair move).
It's like, I love to jab with Marth, nair with ZSS, or Fmash with DDD, that doesn't mean I do any of them all the time.

 

[Shaya]

he doesn't have the mobility to catch her

You aren't sonic buddy, please reconsider this statement.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

5 jumps, pound, second fastest max air speed in the game, slowest falling speed.

At worst she gets pushed to the ledge, there is no way you're getting a guaranteed hit sorry.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Fastest walk speed, decent dash and aerial speed, and a sword that covers like three times his body.
He is not bad at all at catching people, but he has to be careful with it.

 

[Luco]

Marth's uair is NOT laggy. That's what I land with to avoid RCO lag all the time.

Are you sure? Maybe on the ground but I mean in the air... Oh well, will have to test it out.

 

[Iota]

Marth's uair isn't laggy enough to be punished as long as you don't pull a derp with it.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Fastest walk speed, decent dash and aerial speed, and a sword that covers like three times his body.
He is not bad at all at catching people, but he has to be careful with it.

Problem is he whiffs his mighty sword once and Puff is suddenly on the stage again, if he doesn't swing it at all she can take the ledge with ease.

It's not inconceivable that she'll get hit, it's just unlikely.

 

[Luco]

I just recall him having a bunch of extra frames because he has to flip and that just takes so much time and you can't do anything and you get frustrated: I can't use marth because all his aerials seem so cool when you see an experienced player use them, then you try to and they're laggy and derpy and stupid.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Can Bowser recover if he eats the spike?

yes

yes he can

 

[infiniteV115]

yes

yes I can

Fixed imo.

 

[bubbaking]

@Bubba: Depends on which part of it you land. It's somewhat laggy (like... 8 frames-ish?) in this situation.

It only has 3 frames of lag when you land at the end of the move (I believe this is the autocancel window, but I'm not sure), which is when Marth lands when performing a ledgehopped uair. At least that's where I land when doing it to eliminate my RCO lag. I don't know if RCO adds to its landing lag or not. This is practically unpunishable, although I'm sure the 8 frames of lag it suffers in other situations is very punishable.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Well yeah, I was talking about the late uair specifically

 

[infiniteV115]

Grim Tuesday?
More like, Green Poo-stain amirite

 

[infiniteV115]

Grim Tuesday?
More like, Green Poo-stain amirite

Edit: Accidental double post somehow, I don't mind though ^_^

 

[bubbaking]

This post was a bit early.

Darn! Shame on me...

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Grim Tuesday?
More like, Green Poo-stain amirite

Edit: Accidental double post somehow, I don't mind though ^_^

plz im grimey pubes-day

 

[bubbaking]

5 jumps, pound, second fastest max air speed in the game, slowest falling speed.

At worst she gets pushed to the ledge, there is no way you're getting a guaranteed hit sorry.

Can't Marth frame trap pretty well with his moves? Also, he can easily bait out ADs and punish, since it's hard to actually react to his stuff. Nothing's "guaranteed" of course, but so little in Brawl actually is.

Are you sure? Maybe on the ground but I mean in the air... Oh well, will have to test it out.

I just recall him having a bunch of extra frames because he has to flip and that just takes so much time and you can't do anything and you get frustrated: I can't use marth because all his aerials seem so cool when you see an experienced player use them, then you try to and they're laggy and derpy and stupid.

I already explained myself to Grim, but I was talking about uairs which are landed right after the hitbox.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

He can't frame trap well against Puff, I can't really say anything without this turning into silly theory-craft. There's a video of me playing the MU on Youtube I think, though it's a little old and the Marth wasn't that good then (he's improved a lot since)

 

[Shaya]

I'm real bad.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I didn't mention ledge frame traps, I was talking about
juggling...

I'll play you again now that I actually have Marth experience...? One thing I specifically remember from my playstyle then (a year and a half ago...) was that I was very eager to get back on stage, and I did it the same way every time.

I agree that Marth has the advantage on ledge-Puff though, I said before that the best thing Marth can get on her while she is in the air is forcing her to the ledge iirc

 

[Shaya]

Bleh, my bad I misread things.

!_!

But ledge traps areeeeeee frame traps!

Honestly though, Marth is mobile enough to make a read about the general location of Puff's landing (same thing works for Wario) and wait it out and cover a lot of things with a small repertoire. These things are more indicative as you lose centre stage / get pushed towards a ledge (even if you aren't actually on it).

 

[Grim Tuesday]

That's okay. My writing is pretty vague, I'm out of it most of the time when I post on here lol

I really do want to play you again because I consistently destroy Apollo and Btmans Marths - I realize they aren't "good" but it is something

 

[Seagull Joe]

Even if is hard for to juggle (I don't even know because I've never seen this matchup played at even a mid level), I imagine single hit tippered Uair/Fair are significantly more damaging compared to whatever she can do.

How does she get around his spacing tools?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Marth is bad and Jiggs is even with him.

Falco vs Wolf is +2, if not +3 for Falco. Jebus is absolutely right.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Marth is bad and Jiggs is even with him.

Falco vs Wolf is +2, if not +3 for Falco. Jebus is absolutely right.

O. My mistake.

 

[SoulPech]

Even if is hard for to juggle (I don't even know because I've never seen this matchup played at even a mid level), I imagine single hit tippered Uair/Fair are significantly more damaging compared to whatever she can do.

How does she get around his spacing tools?

Any tippers completely screw up Jiggs in general. The only way to get around his spacing tools is in a diagonal direction after he swings his sword. I also know pound can trade with Marth's Fair (I think it's anywhere from Frame 2-4...I don't remember). Uair is just easy to dodge or avoid the tipper.

Puff is such a great character.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You guys remember how Jigglypuff/Marth works in Melee? Yeah, it's pretty similar but Puff has slightly worse range (so she has to rely more on baits/prediction), doesn't punish as hard (so she needs more correct reads).

Things like "Puff cannot get past fair" sound silly to me for that reason.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

what if marth just doesn't approach and punishes all of her inferior approach options with his amazing zoning capability combined with a far better grab game and good ol' DB and DS? if it works against wario, the most mobile character in the game air wise who is also an incredibly heavy character, why wouldn't work on puff who is the 2nd most mobile air wise and is also the lightest character in the game?

 

[Luco]

Don't worry, I get the feeling I know the answer lol.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Can air release into Uair? I know can, which is a disgustingly early kill.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

No, he can't.

what if marth just doesn't approach and punishes all of her inferior approach options with his amazing zoning capability combined with a far better grab game and good ol' DB and DS? if it works against wario, the most mobile character in the game air wise who is also an incredibly heavy character, why wouldn't work on puff who is the 2nd most mobile air wise and is also the lightest character in the game?

Wario has less range and completely different physics.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

papa mink plz

 

[Iota]

[color="c4b5f"]I wouldn't say we have less range, probably less disjoint but on most moves jiggz is pretty even in range with Wario. We even beat you in range in a few things like f-tilt, jab, and uair. Jiggz technically is faster in the air horizantally wise, so she probably does have a better chance hitting you with bair without clashing, but that requires Marth to make an error in spacing.[/color]

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Wouldn't you need an error in spacing to get hit in any MU? Pretty sure I get what you mean though

 

[Luco]

Wouldn't you need an error in spacing to get hit in any MU? Pretty sure I get what you mean though

Naww, some characters just have the mobility to deal with failed spacing on a technique. For instance (sorry to bring it to my character, just an example), Lucas can use SH retreating PK fire and even if the other char is too far away for it to hit, he'll be fine. If they're too close, they'll probably shield or roll and I think Lucas can punish from there. It takes serious aerial mobility to get past that and punish Lucas as well because you have to FH or SH AD and go from there and he's still going a way back. It's possible but you have to be totally perfect in your punish iirc.

 

[Iota]

Yeah I didn't mean it like that. I'm glad that you got what I meant with it (probably).