Official SWF Matchup Chart v2.0

[bubbaking]

Well this is just my speculation, but it's very similar to DDD's CG. Falco can go for just one more regrab if the opponent is just barely offstage or he can go for the spike right there. If he just goes for the spike and the opponent doesn't SDI, he gets spiked regardless and Falco doesn't have to risk going for a grab that may not have been possible, but he also risks making it easier for the opponent to SDI back onto the stage. However, if he gets that grab, he now has perfect spacing and has made it more difficult for the opponent to SDI back onstage. It's like how DDD's CG can send the opponent just barely off the stage, so we go for one more grab, and in fact, I believe that is the premise of our infinites. This is all just guesswork regarding Falco, though. I don't actually know the answer to that Q for sure.

Edit: Actually, another piece of speculation that I have is that it involves Falco walking for his CG instead of running. As you probably know, Falco can walk for some of his CGs and he can even boost pivot grab for some. All of these things would affect his spacing. For instance, during a CG for which he could do walking grabs, if he does a dash grab, he'd skid more. Again, it's like how we DDDs can vary our spacing during our CGs by switching between dash grabs, SCSGs, and, for the chars we can pull them off on, walking grabs. It's how good DDDs can reliably set up the infinite on chars like Wolf. Again, this is just speculation regarding Falco.

 

[ぱみゅ]

But, DDD can adjust the spacing because he has many CG options:
-If he performs the Dthrow immediatly, the opponents is thrown a shorter distance.
-If he pummels or delays the Dthrow, the opponent is sent a little further.
-DDD, depending on the opponent and Dthrow staleness, can standing regrab, walk regrab, dash regrab, or SKID regrab, all end up with the opponent at different positions, and can finish the CG at virtually any distance from the ledge (again, opponent dependant). I am yet to see a DDD abusing this, but it would be specially important against Wolf and DDD in order to get the ledge infinite.

Does Falco have options like those?

Edit on your Edit: lol yeah, that's pretty much what I was talking about.

 

[bubbaking]

They call me the double ninja...

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Can Falco actually adjust the leght of his CG against opponents with, say, over 15% damage?


lol PSC. I am yet to see someone willingly performing it in-game.

Urrrggghh people calling it PSC. It's a natural mechanic of power shielding we don't need a fancy name

And it's very easy to do it willingly...

 

[bubbaking]

I've seen both the term "PSC" and it's extended name for a while now, so I don't think it's going away anytime soon. Also, I seem to remember John12346 telling me that, to cancel a PS, one must press A first to get out of the PS drop and then he could do whatever he wanted.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

He's been telling you fibs afaik

 

[_Kain_]

You guys wanna complain about elitist attitudes yet none of you are willing to try out any of the things mentioned so you just speculate on what you think/think your right no matter what

I'm telling you SDIing the spike is easy, yet you guys are arguing otherwise. I had 3 instances of the spike being DIed onstage or to the point that you can still recover without dying in video form from my own matches, but why bother lmao. It'll just bring up another pointless arguement about w/e, then blah blah elitist attitude lmao, I don't care since this isn't a problem for me in the Falco MU, unless I'm lazy I'm not gonna be dying from that ****. Then you guys wonder why most top players don't even bother to contribute to begin with, cause all of you think your right lol and are unwilling to digest something that is foreign to what you think. Instead of spouting wrong information why don't you just have someone pick falco, make them CG>spike, wiggle the damn analog stick up and down in the opposite direction of where he is taking you offstage, and see the obvious easy results of how easy it is to DI it back on stage.

Nick Riddle basically pointed out why you will NOT always see it DIed back on stage, because it's better for some characters not too (MK, Pit, ZSS, etc)

Pretty sure Falco shouldn't take anyone all the way to the ledge, cause depending on how close you are to the ledge, the opponent will be to far for the spike to connect. Could be wrong

 

[Mister Eric]

You guys wanna complain about elitist attitudes yet none of you are willing to try out any of the things mentioned so you just speculate on what you think/think your right no matter what

I'm telling you SDIing the spike is easy, yet you guys are arguing otherwise. I had 3 instances of the spike being DIed onstage or to the point that you can still recover without dying in video form from my own matches, but why bother lmao. It'll just bring up another pointless arguement about w/e, then blah blah elitist attitude lmao, I don't care since this isn't a problem for me in the Falco MU, unless I'm lazy I'm not gonna be dying from that ****. Then you guys wonder why most top players don't even bother to contribute to begin with, cause all of you think your right lol and are unwilling to digest something that is foreign to what you think. Instead of spouting wrong information why don't you just have someone pick falco, make them CG>spike, wiggle the damn analog stick up and down in the opposite direction of where he is taking you offstage, and see the obvious easy results of how easy it is to DI it back on stage.

Nick Riddle basically pointed out why you will NOT always see it DIed back on stage, because it's better for some characters not too (MK, Pit, ZSS, etc)

Pretty sure Falco shouldn't take anyone all the way to the ledge, cause depending on how close you are to the ledge, the opponent will be to far for the spike to connect. Could be wrong

qf t

 

[RaptorTEC]

Real talk.

 

[Luco]

You guys wanna complain about elitist attitudes yet none of you are willing to try out any of the things mentioned so you just speculate on what you think/think your right no matter what

That's not entirely true. At least, not everyone. I test stuff out, or if I don't it's usually because i've seen a video. I can honestly admit I don't know that much outside my character, so i'm open minded. That said, i generally test things out when they have some relevance to my character, otherwise I admit I don't know. *not gonna be generalized*

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Who would be on the not SDI in group in total for Falco in terms of the entire cast?

I think Lucario and Link should SDI in always due to one not liking being below stage level and the other cannot recover if he gets spiked, but idk about others other than the ones I know can't recover if they eat the spike.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I think being on the ledge against Falco is much better than eating a free gatling combo on reaction.

But only if you don't plan on jumping back on stage. You can always tech the spike and rol away

 

[ぱみゅ]

tbh, despite being on the ledge is one of the most powerful and safe positions in the game, returning to the stage from there is one of the aspects most characters, if not every character, are bad at.

(props to CJ, a fb talk with him a while ago made me realize that)

 

[bubbaking]

Can Bowser recover if he eats the spike?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Can Bowser recover if he eats the spike?

I don't really know for certain, but based on what I know about bowser's recovery.... I feel like the answer is "hell no"

 

[Luco]

Falco's spike isn't that bad. If Bowser has his second jump, i'm REASONABLY sure he could make it back. If not... it's far riskier then.

 

[John12346]

He's been telling you fibs afaik

Bweh? I took that info right from the source itself, so...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjFQtAubet4

 

[pidgezero_one]

can we talk about the jiggs:marth MU? i think it's +1 jiggs

 

[Luco]

can we talk about the jiggs:marth MU? i think it's +1 jiggs

I know nothing about this MU, nor pretend to.

Oh and I got a new sig, yay.

 

[pidgezero_one]

i like your sig it is pretty cool

they don't call him holla holla get dollamar for no reason

(and by "they" i mean "I")

 

[-LzR-]

But only if you don't plan on jumping back on stage. You can always tech the spike and rol away

Because you are at the ledge, your options are limited to not teching, tech in place or techroll away. Falco can easily react to all of these options and at those % he can go for another dair that sets up for another move like bair or do a gatling combo for great damage. When I SDI the spike I get punished for it almost all the time for it so I only use it when it's better off taking the damage than just dying.
Either way imo a smart Falco will end the cg with a spike before the ledge so he can actually perform some crazy techchasing for much better damage than just lolspike and then he can't do anything anymore.

 

[Luco]

@Bubba: Btw I was online and versing died (uses Falco among others). SDI-ing the spike is actually pretty easy. Then again, I was mashing a little. Okay, maybe a lot.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

can we talk about the jiggs:marth MU? i think it's +1 jiggs

It is definitely -2 Marth's favour

possibly -3 if the Marth true pivots intelligently, though I haven't played against a Marth in that situation

I'll play against Shaya at some point and he'll agree with me

 

[Shaya]

It is definitely +3 marth's favour.

+4 if marth true pivots intelligently.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

sick I'm going to splice's house some time and staying for a few nights

you should conveniently arrive in victoria at the same time and we will fight in a battle

 

[Flayl]

Can Bowser recover if he eats the spike?

If Bowser has his second jump yes.

 

[pidgezero_one]

well i took my friernd's marth to last stock clearly that means the mu is not that bad11!!!!!!!

 

[ぱみゅ]

can we talk about the jiggs:marth MU? i think it's +1 jiggs

y u so silly? it's even, like 70% of Marth's MUs.

Spoiler

or it would be if he didn't have that sword. and fair. and grab. and uair. and yeah...

 

[bubbaking]

Did Pidge just successfully troll you guys?

 

[pidgezero_one]

Am I really the kind of person who would troll?

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Am I really the kind of person who would troll?

Nah, you're the most serious person I know.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

y u so silly? it's even, like 70% of Marth's MUs.

Spoiler

or it would be if he didn't have that sword. and fair. and grab. and uair. and yeah...

Uair is inconsequential, fair is the real threat

 

[bubbaking]

Uair will probably kill Puff pretty darn early, won't it? And it can be sneaked out when landing to cover himself.

 

[Luco]

Uair is an annoying surprise he throws out at high percents that you @.@ at because you were expecting one of his other aerials and was preparing to deal with that instead.

 

[ぱみゅ]

idk, I just love to land with Uair as Marth, it might never hit, but Jiggz couldn't get though it, either.
At least the Jiggz I played never did for like, the 4 games we played.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Uair as he is landing plays right into Puff's bait and punish game, if Puff reads that he will do something he gets bair'd or dash grabbed. So yes Kyokoro, the Puff was bad

It should rarely hit Puff let alone kill her unless she messes up; it isn't that fast and hits in an area Puff avoids like the plague against every character.

 

[Iota]

I don't see Marth getting punished for whiffing a uair. I can see uair rarely hitting a smart Jigglypuff though.

 

[Luco]

His Uair is kinda laggy I suppose, but does Jiggs have the downward aerial mobility to counter and punish him for it?

 

[bubbaking]

Marth's uair is NOT laggy. That's what I land with to avoid RCO lag all the time.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I don't see Marth getting punished for whiffing a uair. I can see uair rarely hitting a smart Jigglypuff though.

She definitely can if he throws it out as he lands.

His Uair is kinda laggy I suppose, but does Jiggs have the downward aerial mobility to counter and punish him for it?

No, she doesn't.

I was talking about Puff being on the ground or very close to it (short hop height) when he uses it.

@Bubba: Depends on which part of it you land. It's somewhat laggy (like... 8 frames-ish?) in this situation.