I've just scanned over most of the posts on here, so I may sound a bit redundant and annoying, but here we go.
1)
Defining what "Neutral" and "Counterpick" are
I've always been under the mindset that a Neutral was a stage that was static, symmetric, and geometric type of stage. [
By "static" I mean "what the characters can interact with and/or get interacted by stays the same throughout the entirety of the game" so there are no 'interruptions' to or drastic changes in how the players are playing (ie, not like SV's or YI's moving/rotating platforms); by "symmetric" I mean "equa-distance and size of all interactive parts of the stage" in order keep play concentrated on center-stage (ie, not like Corneria or the landscapes changes on PS1); by "geometric" I mean "straight, flat, and squared surfaces to interact with" (ie, not like YS's and YI's edges that dip down).]
However, I can understand and empathize with the need to have Neutral stages that are not a hindrance or help to any of the cast. But the problem we will run into that due to the dynamic nature of the characters in Smash (size, shape, speed, weight, moveset, etc) there will always be stages that - even if slightly - will help or hinder certain characters more than others.
Regardless what I think, or any other random n00b smasher thinks, the only way to solve the defining problem is to have an organized discussion about it (like we're doing now, but more organized) and make a final decision. Not only will this help out how we will select Neutral and Counterpick stages, but it will help out those working on Project M by giving a standard to work with and thus create more/better neutral/competitive stages.
2)
Should we keep/change our Counterpick-ban system?
I think our counterpick system is great! - especially if the counterpicks aren't ridiculous. And everyone working on PM is doing a great job in providing that.
I believe the stage-ban(s) does exactly what some of the community wants in this thread: it eliminates the most hindering (to you) and helpful (to your opponent) stages on the list, and provides a much more 'neutral' (as in, not hindering or helping) set. I think it was Scar that mentioned that we should probably do 2 bans, because there are so many stages, and I agree. But I do think that the community should really communicate how many bans should be allowed, if bans are continued to be allowed.
3)
More on selecting stages
If PM gives and/or the community allows for a good number of Neutrals, I don't see a problem with just going random throughout a set (with or without bans, depending on how many stages it is). This could be completely up to TOs for more fun, lax focused tournaments (like Amateur brackets, or new player tournaments).
And, if that's taken as community standard (even if it's not taken as standard), I have a suggestion: Grandfinals - for (super)regionals, nationals, and internationals - having to play on all the Neutrals (with or without bans, depending on stage count). First stage is random, and they play to the best of [insert how ever many neutral stages there are]. If all the neutrals get played, then they go to counterpicking (stage selector being the one with the least wins, or the one who lost last if there's a tie in wins). But that could get ridiculous, and long. So take that suggestion lightly.
If none of that works out, we could discuss having a set stages for a tournament/bracket-round. I used to watch/play MLG-style Halo, and at every tournament, for every round in the bracket, they would have set exactly what gametypes to play on what maps. We could do the same thing, especially if we have a lot of neutrals.
Example: Early rounds you have to play, in order BF, FD, SV. Then with WF, LF, and GF you set 5 stages to play, each different (or at least different order). This would be especially interesting if the Gym Leader/badge thing that the Melee It On Me guys were talking about ever goes into effect in the future, because then each region could have its own set of stages it used in GF and could be used for Gym Leader challenges.
[For more on the Gym Leader/badges thing, and Melee It On Me, check out the topic on here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=330282]
4)
My Stage List for PM v2.5
This is if we kept the same counterpick/ban system that we do now
Neutrals
Final Destination
Battlefield
Pokemon Stadium 2
Rumble Falls (Teams)
SSE: Jungle (Teams)
(Light) Counterpicks
Dreamland
Yoshi's Island
Yoshi's Story
Fountain of Dreams
Smashville
Norfair
Lylat
Warioware
Green Hill Zone
Dracula's Castle
Rumble Falls (Singles)
SSE: Jungle (Singles)
(Hard) Counterpicks
Metal Cavern
Hyrule Castle
Castle Siege
Pokemon Stadium 1
Rainbow Cruise
Skyloft
Pictochat*
Halberd*
*-easily debatable to be off the list
I don't exactly know what 'Light' and 'Hard' Counterpicks mean for the counterpick system, I just felt the need to differentiate between stages that were hardly off from being Neutral and stages that were very different.
5)
Stage Suggestions
I.
Frigate Orpheon - second form: Removing the platform that goes in and out at the sides, this would be a great addition to the already great list of stages. Would fit nicely into my Light Counterpick category.
II.
Pictochat - without all the 'stuff': I think it would be great to have another flat, platformless stage to add to the list. I don't know the size difference between FD and Picto, but if we could have a smaller stage like FD, it would add more dynamic to stage selection.
Well, there's my 2 cents.
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