I personally don't even feel Delfino should be counterpick seeing that there are walkoff sides (three areas have this problem in the stage) and the issue with the water (Nothing wrong with it, but if there are olimar users, that could result in bad results).
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Official Stage Legality Discussion
- Thread starter Mic_128
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LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME
Smash Champion
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Why are walk-off stages frowned on so much?
You can chaingrab people to death very easily on them.
DAlegendarysamus
Smash Lord
Sure, and I can pick a character like Ness who has a backthrow that ignores weight and just camp there the entire match.
Especially given how this is a camping friendly game, that's such a viable tactic that in tandem with CGs makes the stages hard to keep legal.
Wes, the only CG that you could even discuss banning is D3's. Falco's is easy to predict due to percent restrictions, Yoshi requires his to be anywhere near viable, IC's CGs take a lot of skill, etc. Please, stop talking like a scrub ><
uh oh.
Smashboards needs an FAQ to prevent the death of this thread.
And please stop arguing for positions that the stage list agrees with unless you're issuing a rebuttal to someone who disagrees with the list. It isnt productive.
Since progress on the list for singles seems to have stagnated, i must ask a question.
How do you guys feel about walk-offs in doubles play?
i'm ok with bridge of eldin and green hill zone (checkpoints become much less of a factor in doubles), but i think mario circuit is too small.
Thoughts?
Smashboards needs an FAQ to prevent the death of this thread.
And please stop arguing for positions that the stage list agrees with unless you're issuing a rebuttal to someone who disagrees with the list. It isnt productive.
Since progress on the list for singles seems to have stagnated, i must ask a question.
How do you guys feel about walk-offs in doubles play?
i'm ok with bridge of eldin and green hill zone (checkpoints become much less of a factor in doubles), but i think mario circuit is too small.
Thoughts?
Agreed, because no matter how much you try to stop one from using one tactic, they will always find another to kill you with. Destroy chaingrabbing, they'll use camp grabbing; destroy that, they'll use projectile spamming. The list goes on.
The problem is, people are trying to find ways to ban these things, when people should really be trying to find was to counter these tactics to use to their advantage. The more others complain about these so called "cheap" techniques, the more they will continue to use them to their advantage. If someone really wants it to stop, they must find a way to counter it, neutralizing their tactics.
However, there is no real way to effectively neutralize this is Brawl. Please, give me an unpunishable approach method to Dedede from one of the people he can CG. Show me a way one of them can kill him without ever getting hit. You can't, because this is Brawl. Yes, Marth could CG the hell out of spacies in Melee, but Marth didn't win every tourney, because in Melee there were ways to combat that. There aren't here; you get 2 frames of punishable lag every time you land for Chrissakes. So, the easy way around this is, as opposed to banning a technique, to ban the stages that make the best use of the technique so that it's not a forgone conclusion that, if you're playing one of the CG-able characters and you lose the first match, you'll win when you CP a walkoff and choose D3.
First off, you can punish a character such as Dedede in the following ways.
1. Use a character that focuses on projectile use to put pressure on the oppenent.
2. Use a character that cannot be chaingrabbed (Olimar, Sonic, etc.).
3. If your opponent uses the technique quite frequently, make sure you use plenty of spacing to make sure that you can use any techniques of your choosing (refer to tip #1).
Secondly, I was saying that all stages with a counterpick label should NEVER have walls or walkoffs for the very reason of chaingrabbing. If by instant death of the first match in any given set (best of three, five, etc.), then that must mean the tactics must be raised to outwit the chaingrabbing user.
These our just my personal thoughts on the matter, please correct me if any of the previous statements our incorrect or what-not. ^^
If you win the match, the selection goes in this order:
1) Loser chooses stage
2) Winner chooses character
3) Loser chooses character
Thus, you won't be able to pick your character for D3, just for the level.
The issue is that there's no real way to deal with the ease of shieldgrabbing in this game, especially for characters like D3 who gain a huge advantage when they grab.
1) Loser chooses stage
2) Winner chooses character
3) Loser chooses character
Thus, you won't be able to pick your character for D3, just for the level.
The issue is that there's no real way to deal with the ease of shieldgrabbing in this game, especially for characters like D3 who gain a huge advantage when they grab.
Even if there are walk offs, do the prior to what I mentioned. If you want to play their dirty games, also pick Dedede. If not that, then choose Ness using a Back Throw and camp the side and force the pressure on them by using your supplemented projectiles.
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
This thread really is lacking intelligent conversation hope I'm not adding to the lack of it but what exactly are loops in stages? is it what jigglypuff can do in norfair?
I'm wondering if its really that bad in hanenbow because if its not as big of a problem then it should be a counter pick. It has no hazards the only thing wrong with it is that its a big stage but so is halberd at one point.
I'm wondering if its really that bad in hanenbow because if its not as big of a problem then it should be a counter pick. It has no hazards the only thing wrong with it is that its a big stage but so is halberd at one point.
I said player, not character.
If they are stalling dq them
Avoiding death hazards doesn't make you stop fighting, also every hazard is avoidable.
If you don't want your opponent to get invincibility then don't let them complete the minigame.
Oracle
Smash Master
It does give the player who uses a certain character an advantage.
DQ? What?
Avoiding the hazards does not stop the fighting, but it distracts from it. Besides, they give random advantages to some players, like for example, on pictochat, an ike could hit jiggly with an fsmash at 100%, which would normally kill her, but the flames, which never kill, appear and save her. How is that fair at all?
You can't always just stop the opponent from completing the minigame. It distracts from the fighting.
A loop is where one character can run around basically in a circle, with no chance of any other character chasing him.
Well, with your great argument with lots of supportive evidence, I'm 100% convinced! Also, watch your mouth.
There's no reason to because as long as we ban the walkoffs and wall stages, there not that big of a deal.
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
This also answers everybody else's questions about Mario Circuit: the stage is just an auto-win for chaingrabbers. It's a bit broken, simply because there are 4 places that you can chaingrab your opponent (bottom left, bottom right, top left platform, top right platform), so it's hard to avoid and the only place that you'll stay safe is on the top middle platform, which is the only platform / base platform in the entire stage that doesn't lead off to walk-off blastzones. Only problem is that you can't stay there an entire match because you're just asking to get juggled, and it's very small and you'll get hit by cars.
Stalling is banned in tournaments correct?
Thats not an advantage, the Ike was dumb neough to expect that to kill Jiggly and should have know that Jiggly would be knocked into the flames because of where they were standing at the time, its completely fair.
Distracting the fighting? You don't have to stop and do the minigames, its your choice, if you want the power up do the minigame, no distracting involved there.
TKD+ITA+Mar=
Smash Ace
Stalling is not banned, techniques that promote it are.
MysticKenji
Smash Master
Oracle
Smash Master
Then the hazards limit ike's ability to ko, almost like a ceiling, as long as jiggly stays in a certain area. Besides, there's walls and such to contribute.
It distracts by forcing you to avoid hazards, such as giant feet and mine cars. For the "jump" one, you could get spiked into the ground and then the guy would pitfall you, setting up the spiker.
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
If you guys are arguing about WarioWare, then whoever wants it unbanned can seriously leave this thread and go play in an actual tournament before they try to understand their flawed logic.
Oracle
Smash Master
Nicely put, but I was using generic examples of why some stages are banned because he thinks no stages should be banned. Whatever, he won't change his mind anyways.
Frickin scrubs
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
what thread is this again,because i seriously see nothing left worth discussing if ppl are discussing the ovbiously banned
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
I never thought I'd see the day when someone argued to allow wario ware. next thing we know she is going to want 75m allowed.
Why exactly is hanenbow borderline banned though? I don't see whats so bad about it.
Why exactly is hanenbow borderline banned though? I don't see whats so bad about it.
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
well as far as singles,theres major stalling with fox
camping is NOT an excuse to ban a stage....ever
camping is NOT an excuse to ban a stage....ever
Oracle
Smash Master
Yeah, this thread is kind of pointless, now that dawn has given us what the list will probably be.
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
when will that list actually be out then?
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
There's no specific date yet, but the SBR is almost done with their list, so we can assume it's in the near future.
Oracle
Smash Master
Yay!! It's not going to be the super liberal stage strike system, is it?
*Gasp*
i had no idea they were close to being finished.
Seriously though, it seems that we've gotten as close as we're going to get to a final list.
I think we should start talking about any changes that should be made for doubles.
How do you guys feel about walk offs in team battles?
I'm open to it, if you're being CGed, your teammate can help you out.
I do think mario circuit is too small though
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
well, things like walkoffs,stalling and walls in certain levels for doubles are no problem,so CP examples would be norfair,corneria,haenbow,mabey bridge of eldin.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
what about shadow moses in doubles? I think it could work
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
i doubt it,because if 2 CGERs are on a team,than can trap both opponets on a wal,and even when theyre gone,they can just camp at the edges,so no
Machiavelli.CF
Ivy of the West
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O_O how does jigglypuff ever survive to 100% agains someone like Ike!?
if you got someone to that damage they should die even easier on the second hit...
pc is cp
warioware...hate it...just imagine "TAUNT" one person smacks the other away, taunts quickly then fights again, becomes in(****ing)vincible on the (inbtwn minigame) level, it's so small you cant run from them, so a huge amount of damage isdealt 2 you!
BANNED
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
The camping part could happen in eldin or any walk off but I don't think it would be such a problem since both of them are really far apart you can just attack one together with your partner.
also stages with loops shouldn't be to much of a problem either because you either attack the person who isn't stalling or grab a ledge and have your partner attack him like in norfair you could just ledge hog.
also stages with loops shouldn't be to much of a problem either because you either attack the person who isn't stalling or grab a ledge and have your partner attack him like in norfair you could just ledge hog.
Oracle
Smash Master
Hypothetical example. But still, it could be anyone.
Green Hill Zone is fine for doubles, IMO.
After some experience with a version of the stage strike system (You have two global stage bans, after which you may strike ONE random stage within the first three seconds of the match), I can't say I'm really that opposed to it.
After some experience with a version of the stage strike system (You have two global stage bans, after which you may strike ONE random stage within the first three seconds of the match), I can't say I'm really that opposed to it.
SuperBraxton713
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2008
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- 7
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ojeRtj9GyUY
Perfect example of bad stages. Its not mine, and its based on his thoughs. but still, its pretty accurate.
Perfect example of bad stages. Its not mine, and its based on his thoughs. but still, its pretty accurate.
Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
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- 2,207
You Sir (or madam, as gender is not obvious on the boards) are a genius!
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