[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Serph]

Does anyone else think more up B moves should be changed so that they no longer put the user into helpless state? It's always seemed like a bit of an odd mechanic to me, and the likes of Snake and G&W have shown that it works alright.

Obviously some moves should still do it, but I don't see anything wrong with someone like Link not going into helpless when using his spin attack.

 

[ElPanandero]

Yea I guess it could be ok to lose it, but it would have to have limits, like preventing link from also using the hook shot, or other means of recovery/ large marginal movement techniques.

 

[Variable]

The Main thing I'd like them to Add in SBB4 is improve online play.. I mean it's fun, but can be improved greatly, the other thing is add messaging or something so you can talk to the people on your friend roster, and see if they want to play and such.. I kinda get annoyed with this..

As far as characters go I'd like to see some more options, such as Toad, Waluigi, Daisy, etc. (just some options) The characters in brawl are really good, and would definately bring back most of them.

Now to stages, It'd be amazing if we could bring back the hits from SSB64 and Melee, such as Hyrule Castle (The real one, not the lame temple version of melee) and maybe some classics from melee such as fountain of dreams or something.

 

[SmashChu]

what a *****

is what smashchu is

I heard that.

In regards to SmashChu, I sincerely disagree with him on the issue of third party characters but his views on the competitive scene is not one of them. I go back and forth on whether we really need any drastic changes or not, especially when the whole Nintendo Vs. Capcom idea is floating around. While I would like to see some changes to the gameplay to freshen it up, I do not see Nintendo messing with a "tried and true" formula. :\

Glad we agree on something

What you call the "tried and true" formula is up for debate. To me, you lose the formula when the game has lifebars, stages as simply backgrounds, the K.O. method is changed to a traditional one, and DI is gone for good.

Wait, don't you me you go to the formula? If you were to add lifebars, wouldn't that be like most fighting games and then become a formula?

 

[Shorts]

I really dont give a flying fish about who he is owned by. If bomberman is competeing with all the konami characters, which he isnt, he is much more a gaming icon than Snake. What part of "Bomberman is considered one of the first multi-players" dont you understand? Oh and dont forget he has been on every gaming system since the NES! He has fans across the world! Snake in no way compares to Bomberman. Bomberman has been around much longer, was one of the first multi-players ever, and IS a gaming icon.
So take your bomber hate elsewhere

And how exactly does hudson soft being owned by Konami work? Does it work like Hal labs and Nintendo? If so, then I still think he reps Hudson soft.

And yes, "Poor shortie" was well aware of the hudson being owned by konami dilema.

To be honest, most people probably know bomberman. And most dont probably know Castlevenia. I learned of it thru Nsider. And I have only seen a copy of a castlevania game once in wal-mart. Not even in an electronics/gaming store.

I could go to Wal-mart and gamestop and see a bomberman game.

Okay im done

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Bomberman is only five years older than Metal Gear. It is older, but not "much" older.

 

[Big-Cat]

Wait, don't you me you go to the formula? If you were to add lifebars, wouldn't that be like most fighting games and then become a formula?

Can you reword that?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I really dont give a flying fish about who he is owned by. If bomberman is competeing with all the konami characters, which he isnt, he is much more a gaming icon than Snake. What part of "Bomberman is considered one of the first multi-players" dont you understand? Oh and dont forget he has been on every gaming system since the NES! He has fans across the world! Snake in no way compares to Bomberman. Bomberman has been around much longer, was one of the first multi-players ever, and IS a gaming icon.
So take your bomber hate elsewhere

I don't know what level of delusion it requires to think Solid Snake isn't a gaming icon but Bomberman currently is (anyone remember the last time people got excited for a new Bomberman?). You've definitely reached it though.

 

[Shorts]

I don't know what level of delusion it requires to think Solid Snake isn't a gaming icon but Bomberman currently is (anyone remember the last time people got excited for a new Bomberman?). You've definitely reached it though.

Toise, go be rude somewhere else Kay?

And on a side note, im starting a new profile I've had this idiotic name since Nsider, and Shortie doesnt need to brawl because brawl is already out! anyways just fyi!

 

[Cyn]

To be honest, most people probably know bomberman. And most dont probably know Castlevenia. I learned of it thru Nsider. And I have only seen a copy of a castlevania game once in wal-mart. Not even in an electronics/gaming store.

I could go to Wal-mart and gamestop and see a bomberman game.

You must be shrooming. Anyone who knows videogames knows what Castlevania is more than likely. And I used to manage a gamstop, we always had some sort of Castlevania game in stock, usually for DS or GBA, sometimes PS.

Bomberman is iconic, sure........but don't think for one minute that Castlevania is not an iconic series. It sounds to me that you have never really been properly aqainted with the series.

 

[Ke$haOfTheFlies]

You must be shrooming. Anyone who knows videogames knows what Castlevania is more than likely. And I used to manage a gamstop, we always had some sort of Castlevania game in stock, usually for DS or GBA, sometimes PS.

Bomberman is iconic, sure........but don't think for one minute that Castlevania is not an iconic series. It sounds to me that you have never really been properly aqainted with the series.

This, this is true. I havent ever played a Casltevania series. And im not saying its not iconic. Im sure it is. Its just, I was trying to prove a point, thats all

Either way, drug free is the way to be!

And, Sorry but Ive never played any first person shooter its not my thing! I like cute little critters or Magic Princess's
Solid snake, is neither of those.

*Shortiecanbralws New account*

 

[Pieman0920]

When was the last time that Bomberman even got any attention? Was it Bomberman Act Zero? I'm sure he's had games since then, since he's the Pac-Man/Frogger type of character who gets their same game ported to every system out there but with a new little gimmick.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm looking at the balanced brawl changes right now, and I'm really impressed with what they've done. Can't wait til the summer break to try out these revised characters.

 

[Serph]

Yea I guess it could be ok to lose it, but it would have to have limits, like preventing link from also using the hook shot, or other means of recovery/ large marginal movement techniques.

I don't see why they shouldn't be able to use other recovery moves (which would still put them into helpless) afterward - tethers included. Considering how many outrageous recoveries we have in Brawl it wouldn't exactly break the game.

I'd really like them to sort out Ivysaur's recovery, too (faster air speed?). Or at least make him powerful enough that it's worth risking.

 

[ElPanandero]

Well in Brawl+ Ivysaur's recovery was buffed enough where it was actuall a recovery move, simply by taking out the helpless fall state you mentioned...and I suppose with tehter characters, their recovery already blows as it is, so it'd be ok.

 

[Starphoenix]

I'm looking at the balanced brawl changes right now, and I'm really impressed with what they've done. Can't wait til the summer break to try out these revised characters.

If I did not want to crack my Nintendo Wii I would probably be trying it out.

Off-topic:

Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 teaser trailer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIGkAmYLlGI

 

[Big-Cat]

Actually, you don't even need the Homebrew Channel these days to play the mods. You just go into the Stage Builder and the game loads it up for you.

That MvC3 trailer has me very excited. The only characters that I'd kill to see in this game are Viewtiful Joe, Sexy Sylvia, C. Viper, El Fuerte (probably won't happen), Ammy, and Phoenix Wright.

 

[DekuBoy]

Kuma please explain what you mean by loading Stage Builder for mods.

As much as I love MVC games, the roster consistently disappoints me.

 

[Big-Cat]

Well, you have to have the SD card containing the codes. You can get them from the mod websites so that's about it for that.

Afterwards, you load up vBrawl as you normally would. Once the menu screen is up, go to the Stage Builder. You will suddenly see a black screen followed by an interface. Just click on the top one and then bam, you're in whatever mod. This is all done without hacking your Wii so you're safe from it being bricked.

 

[augustoflores]

@recovery, i can see the combatants doing their up b and then their tether grab, if there is no more helpless state then the Meta-Knight will be even more formidable. (not saying you said no more helpless state, ('you' refers to anyone))

(@MvC3: about time, now i don't have to play mugen MvC3. my begging choices are all of the megamans, zero, bass, duo, protoman, Dante (devil may cry), Frank West (dead rising), Nathan Spencer (bionic commando), Soki (onimusha), Ingrid (capcom fighting jam)... silver surfer, ghost rider, deadpool, thor, X-23, the fantastic four. i don't have to beg for the obvious ones)

 

[BBQTV]

Actually, you don't even need the Homebrew Channel these days to play the mods. You just go into the Stage Builder and the game loads it up for you.

That MvC3 trailer has me very excited. The only characters that I'd kill to see in this game are Viewtiful Joe, Sexy Sylvia, C. Viper, El Fuerte (probably won't happen), Ammy, and Phoenix Wright.

as much as i would love phoenix, fransika vonkarma has a bigger chance. did you know they tried to put both of these characters in tastunoko vs capcom?

 

[Pieman0920]

PW characters don't make sense as fighters, especially Phoenix. I don't expect either to be in, especially given comments about how Redfield is supposed to be our indication of what type of Capcom characters will be chosen.

Also, it looks like the FF will not be in this game either, and instead we'll get the Super Skrull....which is completely and totally awesome on so many levels.

Oh yeah, and on topic...uh....How about them...uh...Ice Climbers! How should they be changed for Smash 4....uh...yeah.

 

[BBQTV]

Franziska von Karma could be in cause she has a whip. they could do something with that. phoenix however doesn't have anything. and are you talking about removing ice climbers?

 

[HotWings]

My wish list for SSB4-

#1) More options for stage builder


#2) Every nintendo character made put in SSB4


#3) Faster gameplay.. maybe not as fast as melee but faster than brawl


#4) this would prob be my most wanted... i wish they had a character creation slot to where you could pick attacks from certain characters to use and choose what jump ect. you would want from other character and customize your very own character attacks, jump, look, ect.


#5) I wish that the online play was better as in.. way less lag. Also i wish you could you a mic to talk while playing.. i think that would be useful for double battles online.


#6) Balenced characters. I wish that they would make every character at least almost balenced.


Thats about all i can think of for now.

Oh and does anyone know when there making SSB4 or does anyone know if the game is in the making or not??

 

[BBQTV]

My wish list for SSB4-

#1) More options for stage builder


#2) Every nintendo character made put in SSB4


#3) Faster gameplay.. maybe not as fast as melee but faster than brawl


#4) this would prob be my most wanted... i wish they had a character creation slot to where you could pick attacks from certain characters to use and choose what jump ect. you would want from other character and customize your very own character attacks, jump, look, ect.


#5) I wish that the online play was better as in.. way less lag. Also i wish you could you a mic to talk while playing.. i think that would be useful for double battles online.


#6) Balenced characters. I wish that they would make every character at least almost balenced.


Thats about all i can think of for now.
Oh and does anyone know when there making SSB4 or does anyone know if the game is in the making or not??

its not that i dont care, its just that i dont give a ****.

 

[BBQTV]

sorry i did that for the lulz

 

[Starphoenix]

Afterwards, you load up vBrawl as you normally would. Once the menu screen is up, go to the Stage Builder. You will suddenly see a black screen followed by an interface. Just click on the top one and then bam, you're in whatever mod. This is all done without hacking your Wii so you're safe from it being bricked.

Nice to hear, does this work only for Balanced Brawl or can I do that with other codes like the custom music?

Also for MvC3 I want to see returning:

Captain Commando
Strider Hiryu
Hayato
Megaman
Zero (from TvC)
Tron Bonne
Cable
Omega Red
Thanos
Shuma Gorath

New:

Guy
Rei (Breath of Fire 3)
Edward Falcon

 

[Arcadenik]

Characters I wish to see playable in Marvel vs. Capcom 3

Ryu - the protagonist of Breath of Fire series (it is time Breath of Fire get some love in Vs. Capcom games)
Nina - the winged princess from Breath of Fire series
Deis (Bleu) - the snake-like sorceress from Breath of Fire series
Amaterasu - the white wolf who is the protagonist of Okami (I loved this game on the Wii)
Waka - the flute-playing swordsman from Okami (you fight him several times in Okami)
Sir Arthur - the protagonist from Ghosts 'n Goblins series (it is also time Ghosts 'n Goblins get some love)
Red Arremer (Firebrand) - a recurring antagonist from Ghosts 'n Goblins and the protagonist from Gargoyle's Quest series
Sheep Man - from Mega Man 10 (he is awesome!)

But I bet most of the Capcom newcomers are just Street Fighter characters... as if we didn't get enough of them in MvC2. I really would love to see more Capcom characters that didn't originate in Capcom fighting games, you know, like the characters from Breath of Fire series (a RPG series), Okami series (a 3D action-adventure series), and Ghosts 'n Goblins (a 2D platformer series)?

Wait a minute... why are we discussing Marvel vs. Capcom 3 on a Super Smash Bros. 4 thread?

Back to topic... @ Lv100

How can you expect SSB4 to have balanced characters when you want it to have custom characters? Don't you think that when you create your own custom character, wouldn't you try to give that character best attributes - meaning that character would be broken?

 

[HotWings]

Yeah your right.. i guess all games will always have better characters than others.. not a big problem, i actually like it that way when i think about it.

 

[Big-Cat]

PW characters don't make sense as fighters, especially Phoenix. I don't expect either to be in, especially given comments about how Redfield is supposed to be our indication of what type of Capcom characters will be chosen.

Also, it looks like the FF will not be in this game either, and instead we'll get the Super Skrull....which is completely and totally awesome on so many levels.

Oh yeah, and on topic...uh....How about them...uh...Ice Climbers! How should they be changed for Smash 4....uh...yeah.

Considering that Phoenix was considered for TvC, I wouldn't count him out just yet. It seemed at least one of the issues was how to break up his "Objection!" line since the Japanese line, "Igiari!" is four syllables in kana and also in kanji.

Wait a minute... why are we discussing Marvel vs. Capcom 3 on a Super Smash Bros. 4 thread?

What else is there to discuss? It's not like the mods come in here to make sure we're on topic or anything.

Anyway, I just want Ammy and Squirrel Girl in particular. There's nothing wrong with getting Capcom characters from their fighting games, but I do agree that there needs to be diversity.

 

[Arcadenik]

Squirrel Girl? From Marvel? The mutant who has the power to command squirrels to swarm all over her enemies like Olimar does with his Pikmin? Now, THAT would be hilarious to see in a MvC game. I approve!

 

[SmashChu]

Let's not bring that up. SmashChu's already giving people hell again in one of the threads with his anti-competitive views.

I missed this and I want to comment now.

I wont say something, or something of that caliber, if I don't have a reason to think it. My reason was always looking at the exodus from fighting games. I see that Street Fighter 2 did very well, but none of the other met that level. Why? At the same time, how can we explain why Smash Brothers is doing so well? Well, a big difference is how hard one is and how easy the other is. The other factor is one has a very important competitive community and the other is considered a joke. There may very well be a relation between that.

So my anti-competitive views are not to spite some people but to stop the same thing from happening to Smash. Everyone says "Yeah, Smash needs to be more competitive." I say "No, that's the wrong way. Here is why." Naturally, I get backlash because the one thing everyone dreams about is a competitive Smash, and I rain on their parade. It's not that I'm mean. It's just that that is the smarter route.

Capcom would hate me. If I sat in one of their board meeting, I'd cause a ruckus. I'd tell them to re-evaluate everything they think about fighting games. I'd tell them to kill Street Fighter and from it's ashes to make a new series that will carry the values Street Fighter lost after 2. Most likely, they'd call security. And that's another thing. People hate those that challenge others views. I may very well be right; I have a lot of evidence to back me up. Either way, they don't want to hear that. They want to stop me at all cost. How dare I challenge their world view. People were killed for saying the world was round you know.

That and I am a jerk.

Can you reword that?

I'm saying you said it backwards. Adding health bars is more formulaic, not less.

 

[Pieman0920]

Characters I wish to see playable in Marvel vs. Capcom 3

Ryu - the protagonist of Breath of Fire series (it is time Breath of Fire get some love in Vs. Capcom games)
Nina - the winged princess from Breath of Fire series
Deis (Bleu) - the snake-like sorceress from Breath of Fire series
Amaterasu - the white wolf who is the protagonist of Okami (I loved this game on the Wii)
Waka - the flute-playing swordsman from Okami (you fight him several times in Okami)
Sir Arthur - the protagonist from Ghosts 'n Goblins series (it is also time Ghosts 'n Goblins get some love)
Red Arremer (Firebrand) - a recurring antagonist from Ghosts 'n Goblins and the protagonist from Gargoyle's Quest series
Sheep Man - from Mega Man 10 (he is awesome!)

But I bet most of the Capcom newcomers are just Street Fighter characters... as if we didn't get enough of them in MvC2. I really would love to see more Capcom characters that didn't originate in Capcom fighting games, you know, like the characters from Breath of Fire series (a RPG series), Okami series (a 3D action-adventure series), and Ghosts 'n Goblins (a 2D platformer series)?

Wait a minute... why are we discussing Marvel vs. Capcom 3 on a Super Smash Bros. 4 thread?

Back to topic... @ Lv100

How can you expect SSB4 to have balanced characters when you want it to have custom characters? Don't you think that when you create your own custom character, wouldn't you try to give that character best attributes - meaning that character would be broken?

Actually, it may not be that much of a overblown Street Fighter-fest. One of the major problems with MvC2's roster was the overblown amount of mutants and other X-men related characters. Out of the initial 8 from Marvel though, only one is actually a mutant, and only one other could be argued to be a X-character. SF has about two as of now, but it too may stay on the low side...though I expect one or two more still.

Oh, and we're talking about it because the Super Skrull is using his often forgotten hypnosis powers.

@ Kuma: The "Objection" thing is the only idea anyone's actually got for Phoenix though, so if that doesn't work, that's a huge blow to him. It also doesn't help when the producers of MvC3 have been going on about how Christ Redfield is the type of character we should be expecting for this game.

Anyways, BBQ, I'm not saying the ICs should be removed. I was just trying to stay a bit on topic by discussing them.

I also suppose this could be considered at least slightly on topic due to it allowing us to the discuss the nature of Capcom characters in fighting games, and thus how likely they could be for Smash, and how they would play. The Marvel side though is a bust for trying to make up excuses.

 

[BBQTV]

this thread is dead. its time to stop talking about smash 4. everything thats been said has been said twice. besides i killed the thread when i brought up hitler way back in the thread

 

[DekuBoy]

lolwhut?

Who are you to come here and tell us the thread is dead? We get good discussions going provided new people don't post their crap like 'OMG THEY SHUD ADD SHADOW AMY BIG KNUCKLES etc'.

 

[BBQTV]

am i wrong?

 

[Pieman0920]

Yeah, you're kind of wrong BBQ. The thread's not active 24/7 or anything. Its got its highs and lows. The fact that it hit a low right when MvC3 stuff was released is just a coinicidence.

 

[Big-Cat]

Nice to hear, does this work only for Balanced Brawl or can I do that with other codes like the custom music?

You can do it for Brawl+ which would imply you can do custom music too. Apparently, it's activated from some exploit in Stage Builder's coding.

Squirrel Girl? From Marvel? The mutant who has the power to command squirrels to swarm all over her enemies like Olimar does with his Pikmin? Now, THAT would be hilarious to see in a MvC game. I approve!

Dan Hibiki, eat your heart out!

@ Kuma: The "Objection" thing is the only idea anyone's actually got for Phoenix though, so if that doesn't work, that's a huge blow to him. It also doesn't help when the producers of MvC3 have been going on about how Christ Redfield is the type of character we should be expecting for this game.

I've heard different things in regards to how far they got with him. As for the Chris Redfield thing, I'd like to see the source for that, and that line, if true, can be interpreted in so many ways. He could be talking about projectile characters, realistic characters, violent characters, or something else.

I wont say something, or something of that caliber, if I don't have a reason to think it. My reason was always looking at the exodus from fighting games. I see that Street Fighter 2 did very well, but none of the other met that level. Why? At the same time, how can we explain why Smash Brothers is doing so well? Well, a big difference is how hard one is and how easy the other is. The other factor is one has a very important competitive community and the other is considered a joke. There may very well be a relation between that.

At least you're not making everything you say as a fact with that last sentence.

I won't say that it's all related to difficulty. How many people that any of us know got into Super Smash Bros. because of the Nintendo characters, and how many got into the game because of the two button (actually four at minimum, eight if you count D-Pad) setup?

As for the communities, let me ask you something: Why do you suppose Capcom decided to be mindful of the competitive community and Nintendo doesn't seem to show much support for it? Canceling in Street Fighter II, as I've mentioned in the past, was actually a glitch but Capcom made it an official technique from then on. Compare that to wavedashing, another exploit/glitch, that was tossed aside in Brawl.

SSB(at least for Brawl) is considered a joke, to me at least, because the game is so poorly unbalanced and suffers from major design flaws that can easily be remedied but weren't so we could have a half-***, confusing story mode for single player.

So my anti-competitive views are not to spite some people but to stop the same thing from happening to Smash. Everyone says "Yeah, Smash needs to be more competitive." I say "No, that's the wrong way. Here is why." Naturally, I get backlash because the one thing everyone dreams about is a competitive Smash, and I rain on their parade. It's not that I'm mean. It's just that that is the smarter route.

That and I am a jerk.

Way to contradict yourself buddy. The reasons you present typically stem from the mid-90's decline, not killing the self-esteem of players who think they're the **** until they go online, saying the game was designed specifically for a mode some people don't like, and your opposition to anything remotely complex whatsoever. Of course you're going to be given Hell.

Capcom would hate me. If I sat in one of their board meeting, I'd cause a ruckus. I'd tell them to re-evaluate everything they think about fighting games. I'd tell them to kill Street Fighter and from it's ashes to make a new series that will carry the values Street Fighter lost after 2. Most likely, they'd call security. And that's another thing. People hate those that challenge others views. I may very well be right; I have a lot of evidence to back me up. Either way, they don't want to hear that. They want to stop me at all cost. How dare I challenge their world view. People were killed for saying the world was round you know.

I'd love to see how this new series would carry the values of Street Fighter II. And you know what? Why don't you tell me these "values."

I'm saying you said it backwards. Adding health bars is more formulaic, not less.

No, the Super Smash Bros. series has its own basic design formula. Again, this is a series. It's not a standalone fighting game. The formula has already been applied three times. If it were to add lifebars and such, it would simply become something else.

 

[BBQTV]

i dunno i think im wright

 

[DekuBoy]

That's nice.

And fighting games are all pretty unbalanced. There's no such thing as a perfectly balanced game.

And SSB is considered a joke? That's rich coming from fans of button masher like Tekken or Street Fighter.