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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Arcadenik

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I notice when it comes to clones we tend to Ganondorf, but the biggest clone is Toon Link. Why argue about someone whos clone-ish when theres a true blue, well more true green, clone right there. The worst part is, WW had plenty of different items he could have used! Was there even a bow in WW?
Yes. It is called Hero's Bow. There wasn't that many items in TWW. I mean, yes, he could have had the Deku Leaf and the Skull Hammer. But that's it. The rest were mainly bait or the same items the adult Link would use in OOT or TP and there was one item that functioned the same as Nayru's Love. At least Link swapped his Boomerang for the Gale Boomerang so both Links got different boomerangs now.
 

Serph

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I notice when it comes to clones we tend to Ganondorf, but the biggest clone is Toon Link. Why argue about someone whos clone-ish when theres a true blue, well more true green, clone right there. The worst part is, WW had plenty of different items he could have used! Was there even a bow in WW?
Ganondorf being even a semi-clone of Captain Falcon is more outrageous that Toon Link being an almost complete clone of Link.

I do agree that Toon Link should've been handled differently, mind. His special moves should've incorporated things like the Deku Leaf and Skull Hammer.
 

Arcadenik

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Personally, I think Toon Link's specials are fine as is. I main him and he is awesome and his Boomerang is way better than Link's Gale Boomerang. I guess my only gripe is that he doesn't have the floating ability with the Deku Leaf or even Ezlo the bird-hat from The Minish Cap in a similar way Peach floats with her parasol and the fact he doesn't split into four Links with the Four Sword for his Final Smash. THAT would totally cover all the Toon games instead of just TWW.
 

Shorts

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@Arcade

I liked ALL the ideas, most of all the fossil fighters one ^^

And Rosalina was a planned AT, at least thats what Ive read. I think at E3 ppl told blogs everything they saw, and she threw star peices.

My AT ideas:

Daisy: she runs across the stage kicking and slamming into people like she does in Mario Strikers. The way she moves across the stage would be similar to piplup, once she reaches the end, she jumps! Which would make the lot of you happy :p

Slippy Toad:
Once you release him hes airlifted into the background. A scope then comes on screen and he begins to snipe your opponents, screaming in his obnoxious voice "Gotcha!" when he hits someone

Male Protagonist of Magic Starsign:
Once released he will cast some sort of elemental spell, maybe a gaint wave hits the stage pushing ppl off, or a gust of wind prolongs the amount of time you stay in mid-air during a jump, like on the WW boat level in smash.
 

Arcadenik

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Within the Castlevania universe, Simon and Alucard have had the same amount of appearances:

Simon: Castlevania, Castlevania II, Super Castlevania, Haunted Castle (released exclusively for arcade and PS2 in Japan) , he is unlockable for boss mode in Harmony of Dissonance, and lastly Castlevania Judgement.

Alucard: Castlevania III, Symphony of the Night (best Castlevania ever!!!), Aria of Sorrow, Dawn of Sorrow, Castlevania Legends, and finally Castlevania Judgement.

Good choices on the music by the way........
Ahh, but who was chosen to represent the Castlevania series in the Smash Bros. style game, Dream Mix TV World Fighters? Simon Belmont, not Alucard.
 

Cyn

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Ahh, but who was chosen to represent the Castlevania series in the Smash Bros. style game, Dream Mix TV World Fighters? Simon Belmont, not Alucard.
Not trying to start a debate or anything, but against which game is every other new Castlevania game released compared? SotN like 2 out of 3 times.
 

ElPanandero

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I think people wanting him to have a new moveset isn't so much about making him more faithful to his LoZ appearances as it is differentiating him from Captain Falcon. The fact that a character as big as Ganondorf is a clone of someone from a completely different series is ridiculous.

Also, Ganondorf has almost always used weapons in both of his forms.
So the problem with Ganondorf is that his palette choice was Capt Falcon? Not to sound rude, but did anyone even play melee? Ganon and Falcon are so vastly different, it's not even funny. The only strategy they share, is the thunderspike, which is an epic move for anyone. Ganon hits hard, one time, and falcon hits many times with combos and the like. Ganon was bless with a stronger recovery than Falcon, while falcon was given speed. They are very different.

Take Melee Ganon's stats and give them to Brawl Ganon's moveset, buff the priotiy of his hands, and we have a good Ganon. No need to Ike-ify him.
 

augustoflores

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i played melee! i play it more than brawl cause i don't got a wii.
Gdorf he has been luigified already right? i think they want an even more luigification, like brawl luigification although people still say that luigi is still a pseudo clone, thy will never be satisfied with luigis changing, will they?
 

Shorts

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i played melee! i play it more than brawl cause i don't got a wii.
Gdorf he has been luigified already right? i think they want an even more luigification, like brawl luigification although people still say that luigi is still a pseudo clone, thy will never be satisfied with luigis changing, will they?
You cant compare the changes ganondorf has thru to the changes luigi has gone thru. I wouldnt consider luigi a clone. Him and mario have a few of the same moves because for a while all luigi was, was a pallete swap of mario. Luigi has some wiggle room when it comes to this. I dont recall Ganondorf ever being a pallete swap for falcon. I think we will be satisfied when something actually changes for ganon :p

P.s. Bomberman was in Dream Mix tv world fighters :)
 

ElPanandero

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Why does it matter at all why he's a clone. Wanting Ganon to be different from Falcon purely because he has no affiliation with him at all is a stupid ideal. it has no basis other than some silly morale value you carry.
 

augustoflores

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the luigi stuff i spoke of wasn't from my mind. you speak as if i am not aware of the stuff you speak of, i am a researcher (actually an artist but for the time being), i am aware of even more things.

i am not comparing him, the masses are. as well as falco and young/toon link (clones in melee, semi clones in brawl)

go here.
http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Luigified#Semi-clones

(god!! the "You cant" really spikes me the wrong way. it should be "i say you cant")

Gdorf is just going to keep on changing slightly unless he is featured in Zelda Wii. if he isn't in zelda wii, then he will most likely have a brawl luigification and not his own moveset what ever the **** that means since his moves are named after him and not falcon.
 

Arcadenik

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How about just giving him a powerful magic projectile after he executes his Warlock Punch? That way, after he fails to punch the character, he can still try to knock them out with the magic projectile from a distance.
 

Shorts

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In the end, he is a clone. Most people dont like clones. I dont like clones, and thats why I want a change. I think he plays like an obese sun-tanned version of falcon. Hes Ganonfreakingdorf! He is important enough to get his own moveset. I know that if I spent 15 years of my career building a character thats supposed to be feared and all powerful, i would be pretty aggravated if he got half the moves some futuristic Nascar racer has.

You all wouldnt like it if we gave Bowser a slower version of Ness's moveset. No, because that makes no sense, like giving ganon, falcons moveset
 

PF9

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I would like to see all characters from previous installments return (which was one of the few weaknesses of Brawl).

In addition, the following video game characters should join:
Birdo (Mario series)
Bowser Jr. (Mario series)
Daisy (Mario series)
Dusknoir (Pokemon series)
Funky Kong (DK series)
Jill Valentine (Third party/Resident Evil series)
K.K. Slider (Animal Crossing series)
Kappa (Kapp'n?) (can anyone give me info on the character named Kappa if there is one? I made this list a long time ago on my comp and I forgot who he is) (Animal Crossing series?)
King K. Rool (DK series)
Kraid (Metroid series)
Krystal (Star Fox series)
Machamp (Pokemon series)
Mii (Wii series)
Pacman (Third party/Pacman series)
Rayman (Third party/Rayman series)
Ridley (Metroid series)
Rosalina (Mario series)
Tom Nook (Animal Crossing series)
Waluigi (Wario series)
Wart (Mario series)

And this is just an idea, inspired by the Marvel VS. Capcom series, is to add Looney Tunes characters (plus a few others from other WB-owned cartoons) (this also expands on the idea of non-Nintendo owned characters being playable):
Bugs Bunny
Cool Cat
Daffy Duck
Duck Dodgers
Elmer Fudd
Foghorn Leghorn
Gossamer
Granny
Hippety Hopper
Lola Bunny
Marvin the Martian
Mr. Hook
Papa Bear
Pepé Le Pew
Porky Pig
Private Snafu
Ralph Phillips
Road Runner
Rocky and Mugsy
Speedy Gonzales
Sylvester
Tasmanian Devil
Tweety
Wile E. Coyote
Yosemite Sam
(Non LT characters)
Droopy Dog
Popeye (this character actually has a history with Nintendo, so he should definitely be included)
Space Ghost
Thundarr
Yogi Bear

The VG-originated characters should definitely appear.

In addition, here are some suggested new features:
Soundtrack combines popular rock music with video game music and such
Customizable soundtrack (add your own music in with an SD card or a device to connect with an iPod/iPhone/etc.)
"Las Vegas Mode" - watch and bet coins on fights (separated from the wi-fi section, renamed from Spectator Mode and allows you to watch either wi-fi matches or all-AI matches)
Expansion packs - add characters, stages, etc.
"Smash Store" - use as an alternative method to obtain unlockables

Some stage ideas:
Several stages based off some other forgotten, obscure or cult Nintendo games, such as Wario's Woods, Gyromite, Famicom Detective Club, Urban Champion, Balloon Fight, and Sin & Punishment

A stage could be based on the final main area in the original Metroid - Tourian. One of the songs could be a original medley ripped straight from the NES game - similar to the Kid Icarus Original Medley in Brawl's Skyworld stage.

There should also be a stage based on Super Mario Galaxy. In addition to some songs from or based off that game, I would like to see a rock remix of the Bowser stage music from Super Mario 64.

And finally, some Adventure Mode Boss ideas I have:

Nidoking and Nidoqueen - when the two are working in a pair, this would make a great boss battle, especially given how intimidating the two (especially Nidoking) look

Boom-Boom - the miniboss from SMB3 is resurrected from the dead

Kracko - this Kirby boss would be neat to see

King Bulblin - it's not enough for him to be a stage obstacle, I'd like to see him as an Adventure Mode boss in the next game
 

ElPanandero

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the luigi stuff i spoke of wasn't from my mind. you speak as if i am not aware of the stuff you speak of, i am a researcher (actually an artist but for the time being), i am aware of even more things.

i am not comparing him, the masses are. as well as falco and young/toon link (clones in melee, semi clones in brawl)

go here.
http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Luigified#Semi-clones

(god!! the "You cant" really spikes me the wrong way. it should be "i say you cant")

Gdorf is just going to keep on changing slightly unless he is featured in Zelda Wii. if he isn't in zelda wii, then he will most likely have a brawl luigification and not his own moveset what ever the **** that means since his moves are named after him and not falcon.
First off When did I say "You can't" and second of all I was not addressing you specifically, I was addressing "The Masses".

I know what a clone is, and a semi clone, It doesnt matter to me (I actually enjoy clones). But the fact that "The Masses" are ok with Mario/ Lugi or Link/Toon Link being clones instead of Ganon simply because they have an affiliation with their parents is an ideal with no realistic basis. A character is a character.

@Deku
Just because his inspiration comes from another, does not mean that he is not Ganon. He is a spectacular representation of Ganon from the various generations. Ganon always was feresome, powerful, and , but only wielded any given weapon a handful of times. He is in no way being short changed.

@Arcade/Volcanic
While projectile could work for Ganon in theory, it would have to be extraordinarily well done (which we all know wouldn't happen >.>). Ganon is already one of the most defense Brawl characters, and adding something spamable or campy would make him really...well awful to play against. It could replace the Warlock Punch, but I still feel there isn't a way to pull it off

@shortie

If Ness' moves fit Bowser, It'd be ok. You seem to think that Falcon's moves do not fit ganondorf, even though he they both are powerful and strong men. Falcon uses fire but the fire was taken away. Falcon is fast, that was taken away. They fit far better than you give them credit for.
 

Shorts

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Someone pick a new subject, no one is getting anywhere with the Ganon thing.
 

UberMario

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Would PC-to-Whateversystem paintable skins for the characters be a possibility or do you think they couldn't due to perverts? (Kind of like MKDS's problem with emblems)
 

Shorts

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Okay then, where do you think the # of new third parties stands?
Im expecting 2 at the least, but wouldnt be suprised to see as many as 4. It seems that the whole third party situation is a fairly good way to attract new fans. Suda51, the creator of no more heroes, has shown his interest in smash. And BlackMage and Bomberman could benefit greatly by starring in a game that isnt strictly from the wii shop channel.
 

Starphoenix

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Okay then, where do you think the # of new third parties stands?
Im expecting 2 at the least, but wouldnt be suprised to see as many as 4. It seems that the whole third party situation is a fairly good way to attract new fans. Suda51, the creator of no more heroes, has shown his interest in smash. And BlackMage and Bomberman could benefit greatly by starring in a game that isnt strictly from the wii shop channel.
Judging from what Sakurai has stated in the past, the whole process of developing third party characters is very challenging. Beyond the legal limbo alone you are attempting to represent a famous and completely foreign franchise all in one character, stage, and multiple tracks. There is so much history to try and cram into one "box", Sakurai has said it is more difficult then attempting to build a game from the ground up (though that might just be hyperbole). Nintendo opened the door for other characters to be added but no one came through outside of Sega. Sonic the Hedgehog is pretty much guaranteed to return in any future game, Solid Snake is iffy, if for no other reason than that Konami might want to switch to the Castlevania series. Who knows, maybe there could be both?

Keiji Inafune on multiple occasions expressed his interest seeing Megaman in a future iteration of Smash, but is waiting for a call from Nintendo. As stated in the past, I am of the belief that SquareEnix might use the game as a portal to advertise the Dragon Quest series in the West given Nintendo's recent push to help propel the series beyond Japan. Seems rather crazy but Suda51 could get their wish and see Travis Touchdown become playable, but it will be at the expense of keeping the series Wii/Wii2 based. Not to mention the major problem of his game being extremely edgy, even beyond Metal Gear Solid.

Honestly we will be lucky if we get one more series, two is not impossible but highly unlikely.
 

Shorts

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Judging from what Sakurai has stated in the past, the whole process of developing third party characters is very challenging. Beyond the legal limbo alone you are attempting to represent a famous and completely foreign franchise all in one character, stage, and multiple tracks. There is so much history to try and cram into one "box", Sakurai has said it is more difficult then attempting to build a game from the ground up (though that might just be hyperbole). Nintendo opened the door for other characters to be added but no one came through outside of Sega. Sonic the Hedgehog is pretty much guaranteed to return in any future game, Solid Snake is iffy, if for no other reason than that Konami might want to switch to the Castlevania series. Who knows, maybe there could be both?

Keiji Inafune on multiple occasions expressed his interest seeing Megaman in a future iteration of Smash, but is waiting for a call from Nintendo. Though, as stated in the past, I am of the belief that SquareEnix might use the game as a portal to advertise the Dragon Quest series in the West given Nintendo's recent push to help propel the series beyond Japan. Seems rather crazy but Suda51 could get their wish and see Travis Touchdown become playable, but it will be at the expense of keeping the series Wii based. Not to mention the major problem of his game being extremely edgy, even beyond Metal Gear Solid.

Honestly we will be lucky if we get even one more, two is not impossible but highly unlikely.
Do you think Sakurai just didnt want the inclusion of third parties? And do you think once he resigns from doing the smash bros series nintendo will be more willing to jump through the legal "hoops" in search of third party contenders? Unfortunetly we dont truely know if anyone else has been or has ever asked nintendo for a spot in the smash games simply because its not reported. And the fact that nintendo, being the little rascals that they are, are great at keeping things hidden under wraps. Im mean look at pkmn black & white, its due out in like five months! In Japan.

The legal issues hopefully arent as daunting as they seem. I mean Capcom has been jumping through the rings since Street fighter vs X-men. And now look at their fine line-up of vs. series.
Edit: There are ten Capcom vs Games total, 4 MvC games, 4 CvSNK, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, and lastly the overlooked Namco x Capcom Rpg. The legal issues cant be THAT difficult. But hey, I honestly have no clue ^.^"
 

ToiseOfChoice

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Within the Castlevania universe, Simon and Alucard have had the same amount of appearances:

Simon: Castlevania, Castlevania II, Super Castlevania, Haunted Castle (released exclusively for arcade and PS2 in Japan) , he is unlockable for boss mode in Harmony of Dissonance, and lastly Castlevania Judgement.

Alucard: Castlevania III, Symphony of the Night (best Castlevania ever!!!), Aria of Sorrow, Dawn of Sorrow, Castlevania Legends, and finally Castlevania Judgement.

Good choices on the music by the way........
Simon's also been in the MSX2 game, the Sharp X68000 or whatever game, and Chronicles on PS1. And apparently he's been like 10 other Konami games, usually as the only Castlevania character (the only other one who seems to show up is Drac). Even the Judgment cover art is pretty clear with pointing out Simon as the face of the series.


Which is why I said I would hope that fate would smile on me and give me two characters for Castlevania just as FE gets two characters :) Symphony of the Night changed the Castlevania series style of gameplay from level by level format to be open ended play with RPG elements like collecting weapons and items. It was a very important milestone in the Castlevania series which most of its successors have emulated since. So all I can do is hope........
Adding Alucard just because SoTN is all IGA knows how to do doesn't make sense. Adding him because he's popular, sure. Even then he wouldn't come before Simon.



Yeah, barely anyone really takes Cloud seriously as a candidate, especially around here.
He hasn't made a real appearance on a Nintendo system yet, otherwise he'd definitely be SE's guy.
 

Serph

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So the problem with Ganondorf is that his palette choice was Capt Falcon? Not to sound rude, but did anyone even play melee? Ganon and Falcon are so vastly different, it's not even funny. The only strategy they share, is the thunderspike, which is an epic move for anyone. Ganon hits hard, one time, and falcon hits many times with combos and the like. Ganon was bless with a stronger recovery than Falcon, while falcon was given speed. They are very different.

Take Melee Ganon's stats and give them to Brawl Ganon's moveset, buff the priotiy of his hands, and we have a good Ganon. No need to Ike-ify him.
You've missed the point entirely. Nobody is denying that Ganondorf played a different game to Falcon in Melee (and indeed in Brawl), but what does that have to do with sharing almost the exact same moveset? There can be no justification for taking one of Nintendo's biggest villains and basically saying "uh, let's just reskin this totally unrelated character and tweak his attributes". It's sheer laziness.

Also, this whole "he would be like Ike if you gave him a sword" thing is getting really tiresome. As I've already said several times, if they gave Ganondorf a sword then his attacks would be a mixture of swordplay, his current leg-based moves and Flame Choke. He wouldn't use the sword exclusively, and it wouldn't necessarily provide him with the same sort of attacks as Ike.

Using this logic we can assume that for as long as Ike remains in Smash Brothers, we will never see another physically strong swordsman. We could even take it a stage further and say that since Marth and Ike cover all bases when it comes to swordplay, we don't need any more sword users full stop.

Furthermore, even if they didn't give him a sword, there's still no reason for him to be a clone of Falcon. Jab, ftilt, dtilt, usmash, fair and uthrow are currently unique to Ganondorf, so why have the other moves not changed? There's just no excuse for it. I would honestly be happy if they only replaced his A moves (with the exception of the ones mentioned above, plus uair and dair) next time around. Again, if Wolf and Lucas don't have to borrow any A moves from Fox and Ness respectively, then Ganondorf shouldn't have to share his with Falcon.

His B moves aren't even falconized, except for Warlock Punch.
Err, what?

You may not have a problem with Ganondorf being a clone, but others do. It makes a mockery of the character, and the worst part is there's no need for it.
 

ElPanandero

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I don't see how animations somehow make him less important though. If Ganondorf were to have his own motions, but still retained a fighting/Magic theme, would everyone still be in an uproar?

Because I suppose It frankly doesn't matter to me as logn he retains his heavyweigth brawler magician status, if the only thing it needs to change peoples perceptions is changing the way it looks, go for it.

though can we keep down aerial and flame choke? :p
 

UberMario

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Moves that are clearly taken from Captain Falcon's animations:
-Warlock Punch (obviously)
-Flame Choke (Animation has a delay, but it's virtually the same)
-Dark Dive (Different animation, but it behaves virtually identical sans some different speed stats and effects)
-Wizard's Foot (Falcon Kick in slow motion)
-A Punch (Same animation as Captain Falcon's "isn't hitting anything" punch animation, but very slow)
-Up Smash (One of the first sets of frames from Falcon's animation)
-Up Tilt (Same animation, heavily slowed down)
-FSmash (Identical)
-F Tilt (Pretty sure it's near identical)
-DSmash (Identical sans the lack of speed on Ganon's)
-D Tilt (Near the same finishing position, animation plays slightly differently)
-D Aerial (Only differences are the power and effects)

The only moves unique are four of his aerials, which are somewhat similar to Captain Falcon's 64 animations. I don't recall the differences in the grabs and throws.
 

Spaztic Monkey

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To change the subject before the Gannon thing becomes a flame war (he should get his own moveset, though) anyone been thinking about new movesets? For no apparent reason I've been starting on one from Ichigo (I know "He won't get in" blah blah blah). If some others post I'll post the moveset
 

Arcadenik

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New stages for SSB4

Kid Icarus series

Underworld - from the original Kid Icarus, I think this world is very recognizable among most of the players who played the NES game because they are more likely to die in the first three levels than in later levels; I think it could be the new Icicle Mountain and Rumble Falls where it is a vertically scrolling level and I think it makes sense because the majority of the levels in the NES game are vertical

Mario series

Bowser's Castle - I think this is the most requested Mario stage for SSB4 that I think it would be epic if it had several elements from different games; the main stage should be the bridge hanging over the lava pit, complete with the ax on the right side of the bridge, like this, and the bridge would collapse when the ax takes enough damage and it would repair itself eventually like the Bridge of Eldin in Brawl; two platforms over the bridge could be the two chandeliers held by Chain Chomps where Mario battled Bowser in Super Mario RPG, like this, so while the bridge is gone the match can still continue on the chandeliers; a giant Bowser Statue like the one in Mario Kart: Double Dash!! would be in the background where it would move left or right and shoot huge fireballs at the chandeliers; several Podobos would also randomly jump out from the lava pit whether the bridge is repaired or gone; between the chandeliers and the bridge would be a small block that contains a long firebar (like this) that swings around the chandeliers but it appears and disappears occasionally; and finally, the Thwomps would be at both sides of the bridge where they would serve as extra platforms and they would also pound the ground when the characters gets too close to the ends of the bridge (could they be the reason why it is hard to grab the edges of the lava pit when the bridge is gone?)

Mushroom Plains - the first world from New Super Mario Bros. Wii; this one is pretty obvious but I think it could be similar to Kingdom from Melee or Mushroomy Kingdom from Brawl

Rainbow Road - one of the iconic race courses in the Mario Kart series; it could be similar to Mario Circuit but with Chain Chomps sliding along the road and attacking anyone who are in their way like in Mario Kart 64 like this; the 12 kart drivers could be varied instead of just Shy Guys - how about Koopa, Paratroopa, Dry Bones, and Shy Guy (3 of each); you could also fall off the stage unlike Mario Circuit in Brawl where you could just walk offscreen because Rainbow Road is up in the sky; the background could have a nice view of Bowser's Castle in the starry night sky like in Mario Circuit: Super Circuit above the clouds surrounding beautiful towers like the Rainbow Road in Mario Hoops 3-on-3 like this and like this (@ Pieman - so it is not exactly in outer space like a Galaxy stage :p)

Starship Mario - the Mario-shaped planet from Super Mario Galaxy 2; this one is obvious, too, but I think it is a perfect stage to represent the Galaxy games; it could also travel between several Galaxies and we would see them in the ever-changing background

Metroid series

Tourian - we have Brinstar and Norfair from the original Metroid, but there is one more place in the NES game that isn't a stage in Smash yet and that's Tourian; I think it could be interesting as it would be the first stage of the NES game to feature no acid/lava hazards but it would have a different hazard in the form of ring-shaped projectiles that are shot from automated turrets

??? - something from Metroid: Other M, I think this one is very likely but I don't know what location would best represent this game

Zelda series

Spirit Train - from The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks; I would love to see a new cel-shaded Zelda game and it would be the "land of green paint" to Pirate Ship's "sea of blue paint" (I want this one to return in SSB4, please!) and I like to think of it as a Hyrule Tour stage where the battle takes place on top of a moving train as it travels through several locations in New Hyrule

??? - something from Zelda Wii, for the same reasons for ??? from Metroid: Other M
 

Serph

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I don't see how animations somehow make him less important though. If Ganondorf were to have his own motions, but still retained a fighting/Magic theme, would everyone still be in an uproar?
Honestly, if Ganondorf hadn't been a clone of Falcon in Melee, but still fought unarmed, I don't think anyone would be talking about revamping his moveset to incorporate a sword.

I have no problem whatsoever with his style of fighting, and no matter what I wouldn't want to see moves like uair, dair, dash attack and Flame Choke messed with. The key ones for me would be nair, dsmash and utilt. None of which are that great anyway (although nair has speed going for it. They could still come up with something better, though). For specials I'd like to see Warlock Punch and Dark Dive replaced.

-Up Smash (One of the first sets of frames from Falcon's animation)
-F Tilt (Pretty sure it's near identical)
-D Tilt (Near the same finishing position, animation plays slightly differently)
-D Aerial (Only differences are the power and effects)
Ftilt, dtilt and usmash are all unique to Ganon. Dair also has a slightly different animation. (Actually, if you look closely even the most obvious cloned attacks have subtle differences)

I don't know what you mean about four of his aerials being different, either. Fair is the only one.
 

Pieman0920

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In regards to third parties, unless a wild card like one of Sakurai's friends begging for ____ to be included, I only see either 3 or 6. If its 3, I see it as Sonic, Snake, and Mega Man. No Bomber Man. No Pac-Man. Just those three. When I say it could be six though, I am under the impression that its possible for each of those three companies to give two characters over instead of just one. Now if this were to happen, I would hope that the characters were from a different franchise from the ones already given by the companies, so for Konami we could have Simon Belmont, and Capcom we could have Ryu. Still that scenario is fairly unlikely.

Anyways, I'd say that Ganondorf's side special is different enough. Its a grabbing move, and its completely different in the air.
 

Serph

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Sakurai said that when dealing with third parties he also has to take fans who don't feel those characters should be there into consideration. With that in mind I really don't think we'll see many more, if any. I'm thinking four at most (including Snake and Sonic).
 

ElPanandero

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Alright Serph, well I apologize for making assumptions. I'm okay with his moveset animations being altered as long as he retains his unarmed wizard smasher style. I wasn't aware animations had such an effect on people.
 

Serph

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as long as he retains his unarmed wizard smasher style.
That's pretty much what I want as well. I think incorporating a sword into his current fighting style is still viable, but were he to remain a fist fighter I'd have no issues whatsoever. I just think he has more potential whichever way you look at it.

Of course, the addition of Toon Ganondorf would suit both sides... :chuckle:
 

ElPanandero

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I'd be cool with Toon Ganon

And if it came to Ganon weilding a weapon, A trident should hold precedence over a Sword anyday.
 

JOE!

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To change the subject before the Gannon thing becomes a flame war (he should get his own moveset, though) anyone been thinking about new movesets? For no apparent reason I've been starting on one from Ichigo (I know "He won't get in" blah blah blah). If some others post I'll post the moveset
1) GANNON-BANNED

2) Try out the Make-Your-Move threads in the smash workshop, it's all about making movesets for new characters!




on a different note, do you think new effects could be added in the next game?

For example, say for some reason Salamence is a character, and one of his moves is actually his ability: Intimidate.

What this could do is emulate the effect of cutting enemy attack by say, making moves stale 2x as fast and for 2x as long, etc, etc?
 

Shorts

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In regards to third parties, unless a wild card like one of Sakurai's friends begging for ____ to be included, I only see either 3 or 6. If its 3, I see it as Sonic, Snake, and Mega Man. No Bomber Man. No Pac-Man. Just those three. When I say it could be six though, I am under the impression that its possible for each of those three companies to give two characters over instead of just one. Now if this were to happen, I would hope that the characters were from a different franchise from the ones already given by the companies, so for Konami we could have Simon Belmont, and Capcom we could have Ryu. Still that scenario is fairly unlikely.

Anyways, I'd say that Ganondorf's side special is different enough. Its a grabbing move, and its completely different in the air.
The thing is, its increadibly possible that sakurai will not be the leader in the]creation of SSB4. And if Sakurai was didnt like the idea of third parties, which it sounds like he didnt, then its possible that we will see two new third party franchises.
Now, IF there were two new third party characters who do you THINK they would be, and who do you WANT them to be?

Think: Travis Touchdown and Megaman.

Want: Bomberman and Cassandra.
Bomberman has a better chance than Cassandra, i know :)
 
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