[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

You know, not every character added in a game is based on popularity alone; more often than not, the unexpected choices are unique in playstyle.

 

[mariorocks64]

You know, not every character added in a game is based on popularity alone; more often than not, the unexpected choices are unique in playstyle.

No they are not!!!! "Chokes Olimar to death* jk

We definitely need more unique playstyles along with some more unique B moves Kirby can't have the same copy ability from more than one character!

When is E3?

 

[Shorts]

I think I have our rules for a character to be a good candidate for smash. I'll go look for it because I may prove useful if the conversation moves that way.

Okay, I didn't edit this so i hope you know my writing skills have grown quiet a lot since then. . . 0.0

1. Popularity: If a character is popular, they should have a shot to be discussed about. Whether the character is newer, like the upcoming Golden Sun hero, or older, like Geno, they should be considered. Even if a character has just a cult following (N!GHTS) this too should be enough to be discussed.

2. New Spin: The character should bring a sort of new flavor to smash bros. Even if its as simple as The Pokemon Trainer Way of battling or the team battling system of the ice climbers. The character doesn’t nessicarly have to bring a new way of playing, they could bring unique movesets and also be considered

3. Hero of the game: If the character is a single character representing a whole franchise, it should be the main protagonist. Like how Olimar serves as the lone Pikmin character, we don’t need a bulbax representing Pikmin now do we?

4.Non-generic: The character shouldn’t be a generic enemy (Like a Goomba) or be a “clone” of another character. Along with no copied moves or generic races we do not need a variant of a specific character. For Example, we don’t need fire Mario, Gravity Suit Samus or Dry bones bowser. If though, there is a character of a major reaccuring generic race (Like Green Yoshi, or Original colored toad) they should have rights to be discussed. So The generic races must be, reacurring, and have a specific color/individual to represent them.

5. Regional popularity: If a character is hated in a specific area, this shouldn’t stop us from discussing it/him/her. Just because India may hate Lyndis, doesn’t mean she will not be conversed about!

6. Past fighting: Is irrelevant, the ice climbers never fought in their game. Neither did Dr. Mario, yet he still made it in. The simple fact that Sakuria let “Pacifist” characters into brawl shows this does not matter.

7. Actual anatomy: If the character has no piece of anatomy to grapple, jump ect. Then they should not be brought up. Sorry Tetris block. >.>

8. Third Party rules: The character has to not only have been on a Nintendo platform, but also have good ties and a pleasant relationship with one another. Third parties should only have one SERIES represented with one character. Ex: Final fantasy doesn’t need both Cloud and Moogle.

9. Game amounts: Don’t really matter, so long as the character is popular enough, however more games isn’t a bad thing! Just because a game has twenty Nintendo platform games doesn’t make it a good candidate. However it doesn’t hurt.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Look at what game is rumored to be not only shown at E3, but playable as well:

http://purenintendo.com/2011/04/26/...tm_campaign=Feed:+PureNintendo+(pure+nintendo

If SSB4 is really going to be playable at this year's E3, I might just explode with excitement the minute I confirm it for myself.

While I really want to believe this, unfortunately, I doubt that rumor is true. It's seems a bit too early for even a playable beta version of the game to be temporarily available to E3-goers. I honestly wouldn't expect SSB4 to even begin production until sometime within the year of 2013, maybe late 2012 if we were lucky. I wouldn't expect it to be announced until E3 2014 at the earliest, either.

But if my expectations are wrong, and if SSB4 is playable (at least revealed to be in early development) at this year's E3, it will be the greatest video game news I've heard since the announcement of Brawl (my opinion, of course).

I think I have our rules for a character to be a good candidate for smash. I'll go look for it because I may prove useful if the conversation moves that way.

Okay, I didn't edit this so i hope you know my writing skills have grown quiet a lot since then. . . 0.0

1. Popularity: If a character is popular, they should have a shot to be discussed about. Whether the character is newer, like the upcoming Golden Sun hero, or older, like Geno, they should be considered. Even if a character has just a cult following (N!GHTS) this too should be enough to be discussed.

Agreed with most of this. If a character proves to be popular subject of discussion in SSB candidate debates, they should be taken seriously as a possible candidate. Popularity does indeed play a big part in some character's addition to the roster. It did for characters like Wario and Sonic. I do not agree with the NiGHTs example. I understand what you're trying to say, but personally I would never seriously consider any NiGHTs character as a possibility... at least not right now.

2. New Spin: The character should bring a sort of new flavor to smash bros. Even if its as simple as The Pokemon Trainer Way of battling or the team battling system of the ice climbers. The character doesn’t nessicarly have to bring a new way of playing, they could bring unique movesets and also be considered

Also agreed. Does anyone remember Fatmanonice who used to post here a lot? After tons and TONS of in-depth analysis and research (all of which made perfect sense to me, even though most of it escapes my memory), he concluded that characters that have potential for a unique moveset are more likely to make the cut than a character who would make the cut based on popularity.

3. Hero of the game: If the character is a single character representing a whole franchise, it should be the main protagonist. Like how Olimar serves as the lone Pikmin character, we don’t need a bulbax representing Pikmin now do we?

Agreed, and nothing to add. This does get difficult, however, when the main characters are constantly changing throughout the series. This is seen in series like Fire Emblem.

4.Non-generic: The character shouldn’t be a generic enemy (Like a Goomba) or be a “clone” of another character. Along with no copied moves or generic races we do not need a variant of a specific character. For Example, we don’t need fire Mario, Gravity Suit Samus or Dry bones bowser. If though, there is a character of a major reaccuring generic race (Like Green Yoshi, or Original colored toad) they should have rights to be discussed. So The generic races must be, reacurring, and have a specific color/individual to represent them.

Variants of a specific character should simply be alternate costumes. But when it comes to generic characters, things get a bit controversial. Like you said, Yoshi is a generic character, but he is in the game. I feel that the reason that this is justified is because Yoshi was both playable AND the star/co-star of his Yoshi's Island/Yoshi's Story games. I feel like Toad is an extremely viable candidate as well, I just don't know how to explain the difference between Toad and Goomba when it comes to them being generic characters.... hm.....

5. Regional popularity: If a character is hated in a specific area, this shouldn’t stop us from discussing it/him/her. Just because India may hate Lyndis, doesn’t mean she will not be conversed about!

Yes, I absolutely hate it when a character is automatically ruled out because they aren't popular in a certain region. Although you have to admit, regional popularity did play a part in Jigglypuff's addition....

6. Past fighting: Is irrelevant, the ice climbers never fought in their game. Neither did Dr. Mario, yet he still made it in. The simple fact that Sakuria let “Pacifist” characters into brawl shows this does not matter.

Exactly. Nothing else to add to this.

7. Actual anatomy: If the character has no piece of anatomy to grapple, jump ect. Then they should not be brought up. Sorry Tetris block. >.>

This is extremely true, and is the exact reason why Sakurai never seriously considered adding Sukapon, despite many requests for the character. I do not have the source where Sakurai said this, so don't ask, but I know that I have read it with my own eyes.

8. Third Party rules: The character has to not only have been on a Nintendo platform, but also have good ties and a pleasant relationship with one another. Third parties should only have one SERIES represented with one character. Ex: Final fantasy doesn’t need both Cloud and Moogle.

Exactly. Each third party developer should only be represented with one series (no Sonic and NiGHTs in the same Smash) and each series should only be represented with a single character (No Sonic and Tails/Knuckles/Shadow).

9. Game amounts: Don’t really matter, so long as the character is popular enough, however more games isn’t a bad thing! Just because a game has twenty Nintendo platform games doesn’t make it a good candidate. However it doesn’t hurt.

I somewhat agree with this.... I have nothing else to say about it though.

Comments are in blue. Good list! A few additions though...

How about character familiarity? Characters who are familiar to a large amount of fans, whether or not they are popular, should be considered as well. Toad isn't exactly the most popular character, but he is pretty familiar to most people even outside the gaming realm, and therefore might be seen as a good addition.

Character's time within the series/importance to the series? Toad could also apply to this one... maybe. Characters who have been with a series since it's beginning, or at least long enough to become widely familiar/popular should be considered. Toad has been around forever and is still goin' strong in Mario spin-offs, Mario platformers, Mario RPGs, Mario everything! For lack of a good character example to represent importance to its series, I'll use a character NOT as important. Waluigi. He has been around a while and has a bit of popularity, but he began his career as a worthless filler character to be Luigi's answer to Mario's Wario, and he is still in the same position. A filer character. He shouldn't be seriously considered in my opinion.

And finally, a characters popularity with Sakurai (assuming Sakurai develops SSB4). Once again I don't have the source, but I do remember reading translated words from Sakurai himself, talking about how much he enjoyed the MOTHER/EarthBound series. Honestly, those games are neither familiar nor popular with many people outside the hardcore gaming community. It has three games, the series is dead, and it sold the least copies of any other series in Smash (besides some retro series, probably). And yet, it has TWO character slots... thats more than Metroid! Obviously, Sakurai's preferences play a big part in the additions to the roster.

 

[Starphoenix]

Nevermind...

 

[Pieman0920]

Look at what game is rumored to be not only shown at E3, but playable as well:

http://purenintendo.com/2011/04/26/...tm_campaign=Feed:+PureNintendo+(pure+nintendo

Seems incredibly fake, especially if that's all supposed to go to the Cafe (And I assume it is, since there are Wii/3DS titles that clearly aren't there that should be)

 

[Starphoenix]

Seems incredibly fake, especially if that's all supposed to go to the Cafe (And I assume it is, since there are Wii/3DS titles that clearly aren't there that should be)

Don't forget though, Nintendo could simply announce a bunch of titles that are in development for the system. It doesn't mean they will be playable or even visually seen until the next E3. Nintendo's job is to simply make the system enticing, which doesn't require more then "we have xxxx title in development".

I still want my Dragon Quest representation in Smash Bros. I'll even take a stage alone. Just PLEASE let me fight to this legitimately! http://youtu.be/Y0BfOFI0I80

It truly isn't that far fetched to think this can happen. Dragon Quest IX, VI, and soon to be X are licensed to Nintendo outside of Japan. We also have Rocket Slime 2 coming to the 3DS and Slime is unlockable in Mario Sports Mix. So unlike a certain other RPG franchise Dragon Quest has been the most Nintendo friendly. Need I even go into the DQ mania in Japan? I mean after all the producer for Dragon Quest IX did do an interview with Masahiro Sakurai so...

 

[Pieman0920]

Don't forget though, Nintendo could simply announce a bunch of titles that are in development for the system. It doesn't mean they will be playable or even visually seen until the next E3. Nintendo's job is to simply make the system enticing, which doesn't require more then "we have xxxx title in development".

No, its really incredibly unlikely. Just look at how many first party games are on that list. That's much more than Nintendo has at an E3 for one system. If it was everything, then there may be an off chance, but that's much too much. Plus, more than half of them are playable, or tech demos.

The third party titles also look very suspicious, especially the FFXV thing.

 

[Zerieth]

I'd love to see a new sony one in ssb. Someone from Kingdom hearts (Riku), or failing that at least someone from, oh i dunno, some good fighter game/rpg.

 

[Starphoenix]

No, its really incredibly unlikely. Just look at how many first party games are on that list. That's much more than Nintendo has at an E3 for one system. If it was everything, then there may be an off chance, but that's much too much. Plus, more than half of them are playable, or tech demos.

The third party titles also look very suspicious, especially the FFXV thing.

I didn't say that that list is correct. Please don't misunderstand me. I, personally, don't think we will hear about a sequel this early. I am saying that it is a possibility Nintendo could simply list it as a project.

 

[Pieman0920]

I didn't say that that list is correct. Please don't misunderstand me. I, personally, don't think we will hear about a sequel this early. I am saying that it is a possibility Nintendo could simply list it as a project.

Oh, okay. That's certainly possible. I'm pretty sure they did that with Brawl, in that they announced that there wuold be a Smash like a year before the first trailer was shown, even though they didn't actually give it a name or show anything about it.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Oh, okay. That's certainly possible. I'm pretty sure they did that with Brawl, in that they announced that there wuold be a Smash like a year before the first trailer was shown, even though they didn't actually give it a name or show anything about it.

This is true. In fact, not only was a new Smash (Brawl) announced at E3 2005, but official plans to develop the game hadn't even surfaced yet. Iwata just threw the name out there, hoping that Sakurai would pick up the project and work on it. Apparently, Iwata (along with the majority of the fanbase) just wanted to see a Smash game that took advantage of the Wii's Wi-fi. Sure enough, Sakurai picked up the project and development began in late 2005. As we all know, it wasn't officially announced until E3 2006.

With that said, there is quite a large gap between Melee's release and Brawl's announcement. Sakurai simply wasn't interested in making a new Smash until he realized that if he didn't, he would lose it to another team of developers. So Iwata pretty much pressured him into it.

I expect something like this to happen again. Obviously, Sakurai doesn't seem too interested in a new Smash at the moment, and the only way I see him getting involved in one is if he is once again pressured into the job because some Nintendo executive wants to take advantage of one of cafe's new features with a Smash game.

The MOST we should expect from this year's E3 is another "pressure announcement," like what happened in 2005. Although I still doubt that, and I extremely doubt we'll see a playable Smash Bros. 4 at E3 this year. I'm expecting an official announcement to surface no earlier than E3 2013 or 2014. But, you never know.

 

[DarkShadow20]

Well, there are a few things to back up a SSB4 at this year's E3.

Everything else that site posted about Project Cafe came true.

Sakurai recently tweeted that he'd love to do a game in HD, and I wouldn't doubt he got a dev kit like he did for the 3DS.

About the same amount of time has passed between Brawl's release and now as had passed between Melee's release and Brawl's announcement.

There was only a two year gap in between the first two games.

Since the Gamecube, there's always been a SSB game either released or announced along with a new system.

Kid Icarus Uprising is most likely finished or near finished.


So with all of that, I'd say it's certainly possible we will at least hear an announcement of SSB4 at E3.

 

[ChronoBound]

I personally don't expect any unveil for Smash 4 until E3 2012, or even E3 2013. Like Spydr mentioned, the most I would expect at E3 2011 is an announcement that it is in development (even if it is not).

If there is an unveil as this year's E3 of Smash Bros., I expect it to be something like Nintendo vs. Capcom. If Smash 4 is indeed "Nintendo vs. Capcom" I probably would not speculate on it for the simple reason that there will probably five Nintendo newcomers at most (with massive cuts from Brawl), with most of the "newcomers" being Capcom guys (since half the roster would be Capcom characters).

The reason I think a Nintendo vs. Capcom is has a "plausible" chance of happening at this year's E3 is because Capcoming fightiing series director Yoshinori Ono has a history of running his mouth about things that have not been properly announced yet. Most recently, he said that Super Street Fighter IV 3DS would connect with an a game on an "unannounced platform" that would be unveiled at E3 which pretty much started the snowball on the rumors of Nintendo developing a new console. When Ono, brought up "Nintendo vs. Capcom" he got attacked by Nintendo Ninjas, and had to apologize to Iwata himself. That has me going "hmmmm". Well, we will be finding out in 1.5 months anyway.

http://www.gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=149473
http://www.gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=156778


I personally think Capcom developing a Smash Bros. game would be interesting, but I would not want it to be "Nintendo vs. Capcom" and I would want Sakurai to work on it (though I think Sakurai will be put in charge even if Smash 4 is "Nintendo vs. Capcom"). Like I said earlier, I probably won't be interested if its "Nintendo vs. Capcom" simply because it would mean massive cuts to the existing Smash Bros. roster and possibly only a handful of Nintendo newcomers. I would be interested though if it was just Smash Bros. plus three or four Capcom characters.

Still, I find myself not as interested in the next wave of consoles as I did for the previous two generations. Though, despite this, I am still very curious to see the unveil of Smash 4, and which four or five newcomers he uses to showcase the new game in the series.

I still think we are a year off from this, but nevertheless, the excitement builds. It feels like 2005 all over again in terms of anticipation for the next Smash Bros.

 

[Big-Cat]

In terms of being realistic, you're probably right that we won't hear anything for another year. Of course, there was a two year gap between 64 and Melee and a seven year gap between Melee and Brawl. So, there's no real consistency if you're trying to predict anything. And here are some recent thoughts I've had with SSB4.

• A possible revamp in the series. Therefore, only a few new characters. I think the revamp will be closer to 2D fighters, but only to have some stability in its design. Overall, it'll still feel like Smash controls wise for the most part.
• I think SSB4 will have a better aim for the balance between hardcore and casual. The recent stream of fighters show so visible examples of how to do this, particularly BlazBlue.
• Revamp or not, I don't see a huge boost in characters like Brawl.
• If we get an announcement trailer, we will likely not hear anything for a good while outside of the occasional trailer, interviews, etc.

In regards to Nintendo X Capcom, Ono is notorious for trolling, but part of me really doesn't think it's really in the works, at least not yet. Ono's worrying about Street Fighter X Tekken and Sakurai may or may not still be working on Kid Icarus. Speaking of Sakurai, he needs to get his act together on appealing to people. Looking at Brawl, he was nowhere near achieving a balance like he wanted.

 

[DarkShadow20]

Here's yet another rumor about SSB4:

http://greatgamingcrusade.wordpress...-next-smash-bros-game-to-be-shown-at-e3-2011/

 

[ChronoBound]

In terms of being realistic, you're probably right that we won't hear anything for another year. Of course, there was a two year gap between 64 and Melee and a seven year gap between Melee and Brawl. So, there's no real consistency if you're trying to predict anything. And here are some recent thoughts I've had with SSB4.

• A possible revamp in the series. Therefore, only a few new characters. I think the revamp will be closer to 2D fighters, but only to have some stability in its design. Overall, it'll still feel like Smash controls wise for the most part.
• I think SSB4 will have a better aim for the balance between hardcore and casual. The recent stream of fighters show so visible examples of how to do this, particularly BlazBlue.
• Revamp or not, I don't see a huge boost in characters like Brawl.
• If we get an announcement trailer, we will likely not hear anything for a good while outside of the occasional trailer, interviews, etc.

In regards to Nintendo X Capcom, Ono is notorious for trolling, but part of me really doesn't think it's really in the works, at least not yet. Ono's worrying about Street Fighter X Tekken and Sakurai may or may not still be working on Kid Icarus. Speaking of Sakurai, he needs to get his act together on appealing to people. Looking at Brawl, he was nowhere near achieving a balance like he wanted.

There is little I have to disagree with on your points. However, I can easily see Sakurai further "casualizing" Smash Bros.. I am not a competitive player so I don't care as much, though I am annoyed by the increasing character imbalance. Characters like Ganondorf have no redeeming qualities to them, whereas guys like Meta Knight and Snake have hardly any flaws. And that is simply from looking at the game from a casual perspective.

Also I can see many Smash Bros. fans getting really upset if the roster is not AT LEAST 50 characters (I personally would be not be surprised if it is less than 45). Kuma, what is your idea on "few new characters", less than 12?

If we are get a roster that is 45 characters or less, we could be looking at more cuts from Brawl to Smash 4 than there from Melee to Brawl.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think the fact the imbalance can be seen by casual players can tell you just how imbalanced the game is.

I think people would get upset over different things. Some like me would be upset if Sakurai were to further "casualize" the series to the point that it's a shallow shell of what it used to be. Others would be upset over the lack of single player options (assuming they're removed) and other additional content. Others would be upset over not enough newcomers.

I think seeing 50 characters isn't too unlikely though. I'm just saying not to expect 17 newcomers like with Brawl. 11-12 characters isn't too unrealistic considering that there were 10 characters added for Super Street Fighter IV and 4 more being added for Arcade Edition.

That being said, if the series gets a revamp, be totally prepared for a smaller roster, if not around the same size. With a revamp, the veterans would play much differently from their original counterparts.

 

[Starphoenix]

I think ultimately it is going to come down to the focus Masahiro Sakurai takes with this next game. Brawl was undoubtedly focused on Subspace Emmisary and online (though the latter was pretty shallow in comparison to even so much as Mario Kart Wii. This is only referring to options, latency is a different matter). Every other feature felt like it was "tacked on" and never really fleshed out. In my opinion that was the biggest blunder of Brawl, way too much focus on the single player aspect. Granted, it was fun at first, but most people didn't buy Brawl for it's single player experience. Players bought it for what makes it so fun, the multiplayer, with WiFi being a part of that now.

Balance in Brawl altogether suffered because of priorities, as Chronobound mentioned characters such as Gannondorf are useless in comparison to Metaknight. What is also unbalanced are the stage designs. We have many stages that are unreasonably difficult to play on. Spear Pillar, Rumble Falls, New Pork City due to the shear size, Flat Zone 2, Mario Bros. (though I personally enjoy this stage), 75m, Skyworld and Pictochat are most of the examples that come to mind. This isn't to say every stage has to be some static, Final Destination clone but whoever thought that Palkia reversing your controls was an interesting idea should never touch another battlefield again! In contrast Melee did this better, there were stages that were more dynamic, but outside of a couple (Brinstar Depths and Icicle Mountain) everything else was manageable.

There are lessons to be learned and hopefully the next development team learns from them. Being creative and fresh is one thing, but don't sacrifice balance for it. Fix the character balance, fix the stage balance, focus on improving WiFi, all while delivering more content. [Though more a minor thing it would also be nice to return to a darker menu scheme, just my opinion.] If they do those things then Nintendo won't suffer as much as they have with Brawl.

 

[Norm]

You know I was working earlier today when it finally kicked in new Nintendo system new Smash Bros. So my day has been good all day now lol. I've read a few of the rumor links posted here and I'm certainly hoping for at the very least a Smash Bros announcement at this years E3. I can't see any reason why they wouldn't as Smash Bros Brawl was one of the best sellers on the Wii so there's no real reason for them to not make another. Also if half of the rumors I read in those links comes true it'll be a pretty sweet E3 but I got my doubts on most of them.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I am a pretty casual player myself, and I too became annoyed at the imbalance in the roster. The decrease in weight and the new "floaty" play-styles annoyed me as well, especially since I have mained Samus since the beginning of Melee. She got the worst of the "floatiness."

Unfortunately, I have to agree with ChronoBound. I believe that rather than the series getting more competitive in order to achieve a balance between the two, it will only become more casualized. My primary reasons for believing this rely in the interview with Sakurai where he discussed why Melee's competitive play was too difficult and why we would probably never see a competitive Smash game again.

About Roster size, I don't think anyone should realistically expect to see the same amount of Newcomers we saw in the past couple games. We had 13 in Melee (not counting transformations) and 15 in Brawl (not counting transformations). This isn't only because we might see a revamp, or the focus will be elsewhere, but because honestly, the number of viable candidates are running out. I truly can't imagine many characters getting cut besides Lucario, and still I can't imagine anymore than 45 or 46 characters total being in the game, maybe less than that.

 

[DarkShadow20]

The thing is though, most SSB fans care most about the amount of characters. And with how heavily DLC was requested last time, Sakurai would be dumb not to include it in this game. So even if we only get an initial roster of 40-45 characters, there is still a possibility of more being added with DLC.

 

[Big-Cat]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with ChronoBound. I believe that rather than the series getting more competitive in order to achieve a balance between the two, it will only become more casualized. My primary reasons for believing this rely in the interview with Sakurai where he discussed why Melee's competitive play was too difficult and why we would probably never see a competitive Smash game again.

Melee's competitive play was too difficult in areas it shouldn't have been in in the first place. It's more of his fault than anything else. The biggest offenders are L-Canceling and Perfect Shielding. Both of these can be technically demanding to people AND the most important thing is that you don't have much of a reason to not attempt either one so it's just stuff that learning players have to worry about for no reason.

Sakurai's philosophy is truly contradictory. He wants his games to be beginner friendly, but most of the time he leaves stuff out that you should know about and then there are things that are hard for no reason. The man puts in no effort to give players an introduction beyond the controls.

If the rumors that Cafe is looking to be more core-oriented are true, I think we'll see a return to form or a positive revamp since Sakurai will either be influenced by it or pressured by Iwata and co.

 

[Anth0ny]

I personally think we'll see a teaser trailer for the new Smash at E3, just to build hype.

That Brawl trailer from 2006 certainly did the trick.

 

[Wario Bros.]

What I'd like (either 3DS or Project Cafe)

Characters: (No particular order. If at least 5 get in, I'll be happy)
- The ENTIRE 64/Melee/Brawl cast (I want addition, not subtraction)
- Waluigi
- Dixie Kong
- King. K. Rool
- Krystal
- Little Mac
- Balloon Fighter
- Mii (as a customizable fighter)
- Ray 01
- Bomberman
- Mega Man
- Isaac
- Funky Kong
- Hammer Bro.

Features:
- Melee styled Home-Run Contest
- Everyone have their own Target/Platform stage while also have 5 generic ones (like in Brawl so we can easily compare scores)
- The ability to turn on/off stage hazards
- Move Stamina mode from Special Brawl to normal rules
- Melee Styled Lottery
- Return Board the Platform and Race to the Finish
- Actual DLC
- Better online
- EFFING TRIPPING GONE!
- When battling online, have the ability to fight up to 6 Players like in Multi-Man Melee/Brawl
- Better Stage Builder with more parts, hazards, customizations, and conditions
- Keep Special Brawl and Smash Ball
- Remove Dragoon and Banana Peel (excludes Diddy Kong's B Move)

That all I can think of for now

 

[Shorts]

I feel like anyone who actually thinks sakurai would continue on the path of making games similar to brawl are just, well dumb. The game has gotten bashed terribly by most hardcore fans (Like ourselves) and Sakurai along with the rest of Nintendo would be a bunch of idiots to let him continue, in a Brawl manner, one of their best game series despite all the backlash. If fans want more "competitive" styled smash games, I think we will get one. We may get one similar to melee, or get a game with a brand new feel but one thing is for sure, brawl will not happen again. Worst career move possible.

 

[Rychu]

Brawl is my favorite Smash. I actually hope he makes SSB4 like Brawl.

 

[DarkShadow20]

The "hardcore" fans are a minority though. And Brawl outsold Melee, so I don't see how it would be dumb to continue on that path. That being said, SSB4 will probably have a brand new feel just like Melee and Brawl both did. We won't get one similar to Melee again. I prefer both SSB and SSBB over Melee, so I'm fine with that.

 

[Kantrip]

I think it's safe to say that nobody really likes the random tripping.
I do think that banana tripping and footstools and the revamped airdodge and the lighter feel of brawl added to the casual play that Sakurai is going for and none of those things were that terrible to competitive play either. Increased hitstun to allow for safe followups in the next game along with the removal of random tripping could work towards both the competitive community and Sakurai's casual target audience. Then, whatever unique quirks and speed and pacing they feel like adding to make it another unique game in the series.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

I don't know if anything was ever deduced from this, but...
http://ds.ign.com/articles/100/1000659p1.html
remember this?

 

[Shorts]

I don't know if anything was ever deduced from this, but...
http://ds.ign.com/articles/100/1000659p1.html
remember this?

The person that post's on that twitter channel isn't even a Nintendo Employee, so he basically just made it up. We heard about this last summer actually.

@DarkShadow20 I think it's safe to say sales numbers between the Wii and Gamecube are uncomparable. Nearly 22 Million GC have been sold, and 86 Million Wii's have been sold as of March 31 2011.

The Wii will almost always outsell the GC.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I feel like anyone who actually thinks sakurai would continue on the path of making games similar to brawl are just, well dumb. The game has gotten bashed terribly by most hardcore fans (Like ourselves) and Sakurai along with the rest of Nintendo would be a bunch of idiots to let him continue, in a Brawl manner, one of their best game series despite all the backlash. If fans want more "competitive" styled smash games, I think we will get one. We may get one similar to melee, or get a game with a brand new feel but one thing is for sure, brawl will not happen again. Worst career move possible.

While it would be a bad career move, I can definitely see it happening. Based simply on that interview with Sakurai that I was talking about, it really seems like he is not fond of the idea of another Smash game that is as hardcore as Melee was. I still feel like we'll either get a game similar to Brawl or, unfortunately, even MORE casualized.

However, like Kuma said, hopefully the rumors about the new Nintendo system being geared more toward hardcore and competitive fans are true. That could mean that Sakurai will feel more pressured to make SSB4 more similar to Melee... it could also mean that Sakurai won't develop the game and another team will pick it up and take it in a competitive direction. I still doubt the later happening.

The "hardcore" fans are a minority though. And Brawl outsold Melee, so I don't see how it would be dumb to continue on that path. That being said, SSB4 will probably have a brand new feel just like Melee and Brawl both did. We won't get one similar to Melee again. I prefer both SSB and SSBB over Melee, so I'm fine with that.

I prefer Melee for its fast, competitive gameplay, but like Shortie said, you really can't compare sales between the two games. The Gamecube has sold about 22 million units worldwide, and the Wii has sold about 86 million units worldwide. Melee has sold about 7 million units worldwide, and Brawl has sold about 10 million units worldwide.

If you insist on comparing them, however, then you'll need to look at the sales in proportion to each other. Basically, for about every 9 Wii units sold, one copy Brawl was sold. Now look at Melee... for every 3 Gamecubes sold, about one copy of Melee was sold. So again, if you insist on comparing the sales, you'll see that Melee has sold 3 TIMES as much copies in proportion to Brawl. Granted Melee has been out longer... but don't forget the massive amount of hype Brawl had before release.

Still, I feel like sales don't really matter in this situation... it's the fanbase's reaction that really matters.

I do agree, though, that the game could adopt a completely brand new feel, like both Melee and Brawl did upon their release.

 

[Starphoenix]

Anyone remember this?

Will the single player of SSBB be the same as it was on the GC?
Sakurai: No we're going to try to make a single player mode that they could enjoy more than the GC version.

Miyamoto: This is something Mr. Sakurai and I have disagreed with eachother on for a long time. Mr Sakurai always wanted to have a strong single player game, but I said focus on the multiplayer. He has much more time to develop now, though.

I think Miyamoto had it right all along...

 

[Big-Cat]

More often than not, if Miyamoto says something on game design, he's right on the money.

 

[Jaklub]

If you insist on comparing them, however, then you'll need to look at the sales in proportion to each other. Basically, for about every 9 Wii units sold, one copy Brawl was sold. Now look at Melee... for every 3 Gamecubes sold, about one copy of Melee was sold. So again, if you insist on comparing the sales, you'll see that Melee has sold 3 TIMES as much copies in proportion to Brawl. Granted Melee has been out longer... but don't forget the massive amount of hype Brawl had before release.

Don't forget that at least half of people who got their Wiis buy only Wii Something crap titles.

 

[ryuu seika]

I think Miyamoto had it right all along...

I, on the other hand, am pro single player.
That does not mean that brawl was a good move though. Brawl sacrificed gameplay for a better single player mode, which itself suffered from the cuts made to gameplay in order to create it. Sacrificing the whole in favour of a single part like that is just dumb as it doesn't even please those who wanted only that part.

 

[ChronoBound]

Here are some various thoughts I have been having regarding Smash 4's roster:

Personally, I thinks its very likely that there will be at least double the amount of playable third-party characters as there was in Brawl (so at least 4). Still, I do think that there are a few Nintendo characters left for Smash Bros. that do deserve playable inclusion, especially so if you are looking at series that are not yet represented with a playable character.

Almost every popularly requested character has something going against their chances for playable inclusion. Ridley's chances are hurt due to possibly Sakurai thinking his size can't be changed, possibly wanting to leave him as a boss, or/and thinking Metroid does not need a third playable character. Toad's chances are hurt due to him being one of Peach's special moves and high competition from other Mario characters (Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario), and possibly Sakurai thinking that the Mario series does not need a fifth playable character. Little Mac's chances are hurt due to most of his popularity being Western and "all he can do is punch" (that was the primary reason why Sakurai excluded the Urban Champion from being a playable character in Melee).

Other really deserving characters like K. Rool and Dixie Kong are hurt by their absence from Donkey Kong Country Returns. A second playable F-Zero character is hurt by the fact that there has not been a new F-Zero game since 2004. Krystal is hurt by the fact that there are already three playable characters for the Star Fox series (though despite her high number of requests, I personally don't think she is deserving). Bowser Jr. is hurt by being too similar to Bowser, and Paper Mario possibly due to being "another Mario". No previous lord from the Fire Emblem series stands a chance of being made playable unless their game is remade in the interim between now and Smash 4's development.

Tingle is hurt by how much he is loathed in the West. Isaac (and Golden Sun in general) is hurt by the poor sales performance of the most recent installment to the series. Ray (of Custom Robo) is hurt by there not being a new game in the series since later 2006. Starfy is hurt due to Sakurai possibly holding a grudge against him.

Unlike Melee and Brawl, Smash 4 has no shoe-ins, which makes roster speculation much more difficult this time around.

Besides going crazy with third-party characters (meaning at least half of the newcomers are third-party characters), the only other route that I can see Sakurai going in in terms of newcomer selection for Smash 4 is selecting "series newcomers". Basically, most of the newcomers would be Sheiks, Roys, Ikes, Lucarios, etc. Basically, major characters (probably one-shot) from the most recent release of a particular series. Traditionally, this has been mostly regulated to Pokemon and Fire Emblem (and to a lesser extent Zelda), however, I think there is a very large chance that Sakurai will do this for every other series as well assuming he only has three or four third-party characters in Smash 4's proposed roster.

There is also the much less likely possibility that Sakurai will instead focus most of the newcomer space on lesser Nintendo series that do not even have a playable character. Examples of such series would include Punch-Out, the Wii series, Starfy, Golden Sun, Panel de Pon, and Custom Robo. There is also the possibility that a lot of these "lesser series" could possibly be one-shot retro character like Takamaru or Balloon Fighter.

Also, I think there is a sizable possibility that more characters from Brawl to Smash 4 will be cut than from Melee to Brawl (meaning more than 5). The characters that I think that have a possibility of being cut are Toon Link, ROB, Wolf, Pokemon Trainer (and/or his three Pokemon: Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard), Lucario, Ike, Lucas, Snake, and Sonic. I will explain in a future essay as to why I think these characters have a possibility of facing the chopping block.

As to the roster size, I have recently mention on the Brawl forum that I think expectations on total roster size are set too high by most Smash Bros. fans. Each Smash Bros. game tends to add 12 to 14 characters to the total roster. Sakurai has thrown around the number 50 in relation to Smash 4. His exact quote was this: "'right now we have 39 characters. If I made another and had 50 characters would that make a better game? No." So I think around 50 (more or less) is the HIGHEST that Sakurai is thinking about for Smash 4.

I think there is a high possibility that Smash 4's roster will have less than 45 playable characters (including transformations). If this is the case, then a lot of the Brawl veterans I mentioned earlier will indeed be axed in order to make more room for newcomers.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Wall of text.

I agree with the fact that there are very few Nintendo characters left that deserve playable inclusion, and we're talking in both series already represented and series that have yet to be represented. At least compared to the amount of candidates Sakurai had to work with while coming up with the roster for both Melee and Brawl. Fewer choices should make speculation easier, but like you said, most of these few deserving candidates have something going against them.

I wouldn't be surprised if all Smash games starting with SSB4 (if it is ever released and if the series continues) feature all veterans we have now besides a few that could get cut, plus some one-shot characters from each series that are only there until another one-shot takes their place in the next installment. This has basically been happening with the Fire Emblem and Pokemon series in the last two games, but it could spread to the rest of the series.

I actually disagree that many Brawl newcomers will be cut. The only characters that I wouldn't be surprised to see cut are Lucario, Ike, Sonic, and Snake. All of those are easily explainable. To a lesser extent, I can possibly see Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon being replaced by 2nd generation Pokemon, but I still doubt that. Wolf could be cut if Sakurai decided to introduce Krystal, but again, I have my doubts about that.

 

[M@v]

In terms of characters, I feel they will pick 3rd party characters closely related with nintendo. Then again, Snake kind of broke this rule.

Top 3rd party candidates imo:

Snake and sonic make a return; sonic more likely than snake since sonic is pretty much nintendo now.

Megaman(has a bajillion games on NES)

Sora or Roxas(DS and game boy advance appearances)

Another sonic character

Zero in his megaman zero incarnation(since that whole series was on the DS). His normal form would show up instead if they feel its more recognizable. Hell maybe they could even do a wario style thing with both costumes, that would be pretty awesome.


For the in house characters, my personal in house wishlist would be:
-Krystal
-Saki
-Return of mewtwo and roy
-Midna, would work best if paired with wolf link as one character.

 

[Joeadok]

A Smash 4 would need a classic char. Mike jones, Takamaru, Balloon fighter. Someone nice and retro.