[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Sonix442]

My Wish List for SSB4:

Kingdom Hearts Characters and Stages

More Sonic Stages and Characters

 

[Jaklub]

My Wish List for SSB4:

Kingdom Hearts Characters and Stages

More Sonic Stages and Characters

You want fries with that.

no, seriously, this is 99% not going to happen.

 

[UberMario]

On the subject of alternate unlocking methods, I've thought for quite some time that the Ice Climbers should be obtained by Star KOing ones self.

Except that you can only do that on a scrolling stage or if you're Wario/Snake.

Unless, of course, SDs applied like they do in Melee, because Brawl has a habit of giving KOs to people that weren't even the reason for the death.

 

[ryuu seika]

I'm still not entirely sure what "star KOs" actually are. I had assumed that they were the ones where you hit the screen or went into the background that were caused by flying off the top of the screen. This would be possible for the Links, Kirby, Snake, Mr.Game&Watch and probably a few others besides.

 

[BigLord]

AFAIK, Star KOs are exactly that, minus the "hitting the screen" part. I've done that to myself sometimes, hell even jumping towards the upper boundary is possible.

 

[ryuu seika]

Yeah, I've KOed myself in SSB64 jumping as Kirby. I've been careful of that ever since.

 

[GTZ]

so.. next gen console to be announced at e3 or earlier.... looks like ssb4 is a good possibility.. HD would be pretty.. was getting sick of tube tvs anyways.... just think of the potential if nintendo does actually return to the hardcore market... and if indeed game format is blueray, one massive smash bros game may be in the works.... just observations right now... but I have some large faith in nintendo.. its time for a comeback and a smash community comeback too.... there are no tournaments in my area, except for like maybe 1 every 4 months... gas is expensive... it seems dead here... but if a new game comes out... I'd definitely consider rejoining the competitive scene... hello k.rool and other characters that deserve a slot in smash games... megaman cough cough... geno... etc... I'm pumped about this new console... really pumped.. cross our fingers

**comment was random.. yes, but this is a ssb4 discussion and it is pertinent.... and I don't think the 3ds will have a smash game so... yeah... food for thought.. I work at gamestop and everyone is hush hush, but my manager pretty much confirmed it for me too... I called it.. I made a darn bet on it 2 weeks ago, and now this confirmed rumor is here... sweet..

 

[SinnedNogara]

My roster

Next Smash Bros should have 48-54 characters, somewhere in that line.

My newcomer list:


Dixie Kong
King. K Rool
Dark Samus
Eggplant Wizard
Zoroark (to replace Lucario)
Masked Man
Samurai Goroh
Lyndis
(possible Fire Emblem character to replace Ike, a villian from the series would be nice too)
Starfy
Tom Nook
Muddy Mole
Little Mac
Isaac
Ray
Mokka
Andy
Bomberman
Mega Man

 

[shileno]

First, clones should be attires, something like texture hacks do. Mario won't probable get another character, maybe some Assists but I don't see Waluigi, Rosalina or Toad making it. Zelda should get Skullkid, it could be possible because we'll probably see a Majora's Mask remake for 3DS. As for Lucario, it will probably get replaced by Zoroark.

We need:
King K.Rool (DK must have his classic enemy)
Adam Malkovich (better and original than any other Metroid character)
Ridley (He's big yeah, but in Melee we saw a small Ridley)
Zoroark (gen 5 mascot)
Louie (Pikmin 3 is coming)
Ray MK (if Nintendo decides to revive Custom Robo)
Little Mac
Balloon Fighter (probably won't happen but another vintage character would be great)
Matt (Isaac's replacement)
And for third parties, I would invite only one person, Professor Layton. Sonic and Snake can stay. Please don't make Smash Bros a mugen fantasy all star game.

What I really would like to see are different characters in the same characters, like Mario (Mario, Dr.Mario, Paper Mario, Classic Mario) or Link (OoT Link, TP Link, Young Link, Toon Link) or Pokemon Trainer (Red, Ethan, Brendan and why not, Blue (Gary)).

 

[ryuu seika]

@GTZ: I'm fine with HD so long as Nintendo realises that realism isn't the way to go. I want to see more colour schemes like that of Yoshi's Story (oversaturated and vibrant).

 

[Starphoenix]

I can't even imagine what Smash Bros in HD would be like...

 

[Kantrip]

Hopefully something very similar with more crisp and clean backgrounds and animations, along with vibrant colours and crazy stuff.

 

[Starphoenix]

I am thinking in terms of character models. I remember watching the first ever Brawl trailer. When they showed the transition between the Melee models to the current one's, it was so cutting edge. Now my tiny mind can't even envision how much more detail they can pack into Mario's overalls?! Certain things need more detail next time around, like Pokémon, certain effects, menu interface, etc... Stages detail will undoubtedly improve, but for the life of me I can't envision what more they can do with the characters? Maybe Sakurai can finally add the "wear and tear" effect he wanted to? I don't know, since it's removal had more to do with a desire to remove a perceived mature theme upon the game...

I do anticipate how he will push this inevitable game to it's entire capacity. I don't believe he gets enough credit for how much he does with each title?

 

[Shorts]

I am thinking in terms of character models. I remember watching the first ever Brawl trailer. When they showed the transition between the Melee models to the current one's, it was so cutting edge. Now my tiny mind can't even envision how much more detail they can pack into Mario's overalls?! Certain things need more detail next time around, like Pokémon, certain effects, menu interface, etc... Stages detail will undoubtedly improve, but for the life of me I can't envision what more they can do with the characters? Maybe Sakurai can finally add the "wear and tear" effect he wanted to? I don't know, since it's removal had more to do with a desire to remove a perceived mature theme upon the game...

I do anticipate how he will push this inevitable game to it's entire capacity. I don't believe he gets enough credit for how much he does with each title?

He definitely gets credit for trying new things, but some things end up not working. Just like any other project/cepcept in life. I do think we tend to look at all the bad and not give credit to the good.

I agree with the "Mature" effect of wear and Tear. I like my Jigglypuff without black eyes. But the levels could wear and tear? They could break a little from Bombs/Blasts?

 

[BirthNote]

@GTZ: I'm fine with HD so long as Nintendo realises that realism isn't the way to go. I want to see more colour schemes like that of Yoshi's Story (oversaturated and vibrant).

I'd say Nintendo realized that a while ago (Mario, Toon LoZ, DK), so things should be fine.

 

[Big-Cat]

Just because we'll have a more powerful console doesn't mean everything will look realistic. As mentioned, we have Mario and Donkey Kong who still retain a cartoony-ish art style. All HD really means is that the developers have a larger canvas.

Take a look at the promotional Mario art, that's along the lines we'll see for a future Mario game. The increased details can allow for stuff like Mario's overalls being a separate part of Mario (assuming they aren't already) and Peach's dress having naturally moving layers on her dress instead of the painted on look in Brawl.

Now for Smash, I can't say for certain what the art style will be like, but if they do add the wear and tear textures in the next game, expect them to be character specific. Don't expect bloodshot eyes on Jigglypuff, but something you'd see in the Pokemon anime.

 

[ryuu seika]

I'd say Nintendo realized that a while ago (Mario, Toon LoZ, DK), so things should be fine.

Thankyou for the reassurance. They're not quite the extent I was hoping for but the SMG Marios are a lot better than the Brawl one in this respect. So long as they keep it to atleast the SMG level I'll be content.

 

[Neontiger94]

So I think it's safe to assume that SSB4 will maintain the principle of one smash per generation, seeing as that the wii will be pretty much obsolete after this year

 

[Rychu]

Just because we'll have a more powerful console doesn't mean everything will look realistic. As mentioned, we have Mario and Donkey Kong who still retain a cartoony-ish art style. All HD really means is that the developers have a larger canvas.

Take a look at the promotional Mario art, that's along the lines we'll see for a future Mario game. The increased details can allow for stuff like Mario's overalls being a separate part of Mario (assuming they aren't already) and Peach's dress having naturally moving layers on her dress instead of the painted on look in Brawl.

Now for Smash, I can't say for certain what the art style will be like, but if they do add the wear and tear textures in the next game, expect them to be character specific. Don't expect bloodshot eyes on Jigglypuff, but something you'd see in the Pokemon anime.

I agree with this completely. Along those lines, we'd probably see bruises on Pokemon, tearing clothes for LoZ/FE/Snake/Starfox/Captain Falcon(which would be cool to see his helmet torn off)/Earthbound, Scratching on Meta Knights mask, ripped overalls for Mario/Luigi/Wario, Limping DK/Yoshi, bruised up Kirby/D3, and so on. Fully destructable environments would be nice.

 

[Flame Hyenard]

Fully destructable environments would be nice.

This. Beating the crap out of the Animal Crossing characters (if Smashville makes a comeback) would be hilarious, especially if they fight back

 

[Shorts]

Pokemon/Kirby characters would probably get scuffed and dirty, not bruised really.

 

[mariorocks64]

Wear and tear characters was something Nintendo was trying to do in Brawl right? So we should expect that in the next game. when someone said destructible stages, it makes me think of Dragon Ball Z, which makes WIN everywhere. Let's not forget about Olima's cracked shell and maybe fox with a few bald spots.

What if smash had a tag team mode like Marvel vs Capcom 3? Should I elaborate on it?

I want toad to be a character. If anyone objects, I'll be ready to explain.

I also loved both Melee and Brawl. both games coulld merge to form success. Melee's great offensive techniques and combos mixed with Brawl's defense and recovery.

 

[ryuu seika]

I don't think mixing Melee and Brawl would work out well. What gave Brawl the defense and recovery was the lack of combos and the lessened weight.

As for tag teams, I'd rather have a mode that straight up used characters instead of lives, as has been previously suggested.

 

[Big-Cat]

They could give us defensive mechanics for a change instead. Shield's a start, but a standard block alone (ala 2D fighters) would change the game greatly.

 

[augustoflores]

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/094/0/9/Playable_Wasted_Peach_II_by_Twilit_Arawen.jpghttp://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/278/b/e/torn_zelda_quickie_by_twilit_arawen-d306e4m.jpghttp://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/151/9/7/Torn_Daisy_by_Twilit_Arawen.jpghttp://fc05.deviantart.net/fs40/i/2009/018/4/d/Zero_Gravity_by_Twilit_Arawen.jpg
... also, http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/277/1/d/mario_vs__megaman_by_hermesgildo-d3028go.jpghttp://th03.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2010/117/e/a/Mario_vs__Sonic_by_Hermesgildo.jpg
getting in on this wear and tear stuff.

 

[Big-Cat]

Those a pretty neat, but we're never going to see something like that. At most, I think the princesses will get non-revealing tears and dirt. I think Samus' power suit will have cracks on the visor and possibly some electricity crackling. It'd be cool if the Links would pant like they do in the 3D Zelda games when they're idle.

 

[UberMario]

It would never get to that point August, that's pretty much M rated.

On the subject, I'd like to see damage-related idle animations, like Kuma said, but with all of the characters. i.e. Mario would pant like in Super Mario 64 when he has over 100%, Pikachu would have sparks flying out of his cheeks when at or under 25%, etc.

Character changes at different levels would be interesting, too. i.e. Star Fox lasers would start malfunctioning when at 100%, the starter Pokemon get a 50% attack boost at 150%, Mr. Game & Watch always gets a lvl. 9 Judgement when at exactly 7%, 77%, or 777%. Megaman experiences more and more power and recoil from his mega buster the higher above 80% he goes, etc.

 

[Big-Cat]

Stat boosts should be avoided with the exception of Lucario. They can easily be made as unfair comback mechanics

 

[augustoflores]

It would never get to that point August, that's pretty much M rated.

oh puh-lease ubermario, do you actually think that i am an idiot? i hope i am not putting that off with all of my comments. i put those pics up because people were talking about wear and tear and it reminded me of twilit-arawen's torn brawl hacks and awesome drawings.

and on the point of this, i reminded myself of hermesguildo's mario vs. drawings of bloody pulps.

really, it was all for the Lulz. do not underestimate me again.

on a lighter note, if there is another smash in the franchise, i would like for there to be text the way street fighter does right before the match begins.

also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef7kyNVU--c ... y'know, for the lulz.

 

[SUTOruin]

In a new Brawl game I'd love more orchestrated music and for them to make a better online experience for everyone.

I've always wanted the ability to create rooms, join parties, and have RANKS! Competition commenced. Options!

 

[Spydr Enzo]

On the subject of wear and tear, and battle damage effects, anyone remember how Mario's hat could fall off/be stolen in Super Mario 64? Depending on which world you were in, various things like a monkey, a vulture, or a snowman would take your hat and they'd keep it until you got it back.

What if something like that happened in Smash? It wouldn't affect gameplay, but other characters could pick up and throw the hat around. If it was thrown off, it would simply respawn later. If Mario picked it up, he'd instantly put it back on.

It isn't much, but little things like this would make things much more interesting in my eyes.

Just a little addition to the discussion of battle damage effects.

 

[DemonDream]

On the subject of wear and tear, and battle damage effects, anyone remember how Mario's hat could fall off/be stolen in Super Mario 64? Depending on which world you were in, various things like a monkey, a vulture, or a snowman would take your hat and they'd keep it until you got it back.

What if something like that happened in Smash? It wouldn't affect gameplay, but other characters could pick up and throw the hat around. If it was thrown off, it would simply respawn later. If Mario picked it up, he'd instantly put it back on.

It isn't much, but little things like this would make things much more interesting in my eyes.

Just a little addition to the discussion of battle damage effects.

I completely agree!

 

[mariorocks64]

I don't think mixing Melee and Brawl would work out well. What gave Brawl the defense and recovery was the lack of combos and the lessened weight.

As for tag teams, I'd rather have a mode that straight up used characters instead of lives, as has been previously suggested.

darn Nintendo!

What if we kept the melee physics, but have the brawl-esque dodges. I mean, you could still wave dash, but you won't go into the helpless fall state in the air. Keep the melee weight, but improve everyone's recovery specials so they can still have an easier time getting back to the stages. This way, we will have a balance between defense and offense. does this sound good or is there a problem?

I know another way for Mario's hat to come off. When mario taunts (by removing his hat temporarily) someone could hit him with any attack to cause him to drop the hat. And just for lulz, his hat should be flammable, so any fire based move would set the hat on fire. we can imagine the effects from here.

I was thinking of 2 things.

1) this forum needs a SSB4 section. despite having this thread, random people still post threads about SSB4. This is to clear some space.

2) With all the ideas that has been suggested, some of them could be done with the hacks in Brawl. what if someone tries to make SSB4 as another brawl mod? Sure, it won't be the same, but at least our dreams can look real to us.

 

[Shorts]

I sure hope that the wear and tear for the girls isn't just sexification... >.>

*grumbles*

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Here's a new topic that I was thinking about... what do you guys think could be done by developers to keep players from getting bored of the game so quickly?

I was an avid Melee player from the year it came out to the year Brawl came out, and I still play it sometimes. When Brawl came out, I unlocked everything (at least all of the main things like characters, stages, music, etc.), beat the Subspace Emissary, and got bored of the game after about half a year. I think the series could use a few features to increase the replay value and decrease the time in which the player gets bored of the game.

I had two ideas:

1) One reason I think I spent more time playing Melee was because of the more difficult and time-consuming requirements to unlock each character. If you unlocked every character solely by playing Vs. Matches, you'd have to play 1000 Vs. matches. In Brawl, you'd only have to play 450. And their are more characters to unlock. Furthermore, a quick playthrough of the Subspace Emissary could unlock characters rather quickly. For me, it was just to easy. I had every character unlocked within two months, maybe less.

The same difficult conditions should return for a future Smash. One of the biggest elements of the game is unlocking new fighters. If it takes longer to unlock each fighter, then players would spend more time playing the game.

2) Individual story modes should be added for each character that more closely resemble the Adventure Mode from Melee. Melee's Adventure mode was cool, but extremely repetitive. SSE was cool too, but an individual storyline for each character would be better.

Each character has maybe a 10 to 15 minute adventure that contains a simple plot which resembles a plot similar to one found in that character's own games (Mario save Peach from Bowser, or Samus infiltrates a space pirate ship and battles Ridley, etc.) along with enemies and elements from their own games. Maybe all the stories could connect somehow and an adventure mode involving all characters could be unlocked once each individual one was complete. Adventure mode for each character changes as new characters are unlocked (when Bowser Jr. is unlocked, he fights alongside Bowser in Mario's story, or when Samurai Goroh is unlocked, an additional battle stage is added to Captain Falcon's story, etc.)




So what do you think about these ideas? What other things could be done to increase the replay value of a future Smash?

 

[Big-Cat]

Make the online at least Street Fighter caliber features wise. Try to get an infinitely much better net code, because God knows we need it.

 

[ryuu seika]

I'd love more orchestrated music

Stupid orchestration! Music in future smashes should have the proper nostalgic feel to it that Melee's did.

hat stuff...

But Mario is nothing without his hat...

What if we kept the melee physics, but have the brawl-esque dodges. I mean, you could still wave dash, but you won't go into the helpless fall state in the air. Keep the melee weight, but improve everyone's recovery specials so they can still have an easier time getting back to the stages. This way, we will have a balance between defense and offense. does this sound good or is there a problem?

Wavedashing seems like an unrealistic feature that they were right to do away with. While dodging into the floor should be allowed and should cause the player to skid slightly it should not be to that extent. I would also say that apart from Brawl's improvement to Yoshi, the Melee air dodge with no freefall is all that would be required to boost recovery.

this forum needs a SSB4 section. despite having this thread, random people still post threads about SSB4. This is to clear some space.

Agreed but not for your reasons. This is the section for stuff relating to Brawl and SSB4 does not belong here. This has little to do with Brawl and IMO atleast, Brawl has no more to do with it than any other game in the series.

The same difficult conditions should return for a future Smash. One of the biggest elements of the game is unlocking new fighters. If it takes longer to unlock each fighter, then players would spend more time playing the game.

I totally agree. Not only would that keep people playing longer because they had to to unlock the characters, they'd also have more time between each character, meaning they got to know the ones they had that much better. Furthermore, the better you know the game and the better you think you are at it, the more you feel the need to compete with others. In short, the more time you spend unlocking things, the more likely you are to spend time on the game after unlocking those things.

Individual story modes should be added for each character that more closely resemble the Adventure Mode from Melee. Melee's Adventure mode was cool, but extremely repetitive. SSE was cool too, but an individual storyline for each character would be better.

I preferred Adventure to SSE but felt it was lacking in depth and replay value. Making it character specific would make it last so much longer and minor changes based on what you have unlock couldn't possibly be a bad thing for replay value. A story interwoven throughout the Adventures would give extra meaning to the whole thing while also giving players a reason to play them all, forcing players to get good as every character without making it unfun. I definitely agree with that aswell.
I also agree with the idea of a final Adventure for all the characters after the others are complete. To get it to work would require the character specific Adventure modes to all have their own bosses (some such as Mario's and Luigi's would likely share though) so that the true final boss would be reserved for the final adventure.
To get the feel of all the characters working together I would have this final adventure be more subspace based both in terms of the level design and the fact that you would have 5 characters of your choice to use instead of lives.

 

[BirthNote]

Mario's hat.

I think its an ok idea, not good or bad just ok. I think that would be best for joke matches where seriousness doesn't exist. I can see some potential in that.

I was an avid Melee player from the year it came out to the year Brawl came out, and I still play it sometimes. When Brawl came out, I unlocked everything (at least all of the main things like characters, stages, music, etc.), beat the Subspace Emissary, and got bored of the game after about half a year. I think the series could use a few features to increase the replay value and decrease the time in which the player gets bored of the game.

One reason I think I spent more time playing Melee was because of the more difficult and time-consuming requirements to unlock each character. If you unlocked every character solely by playing Vs. Matches, you'd have to play 1000 Vs. matches. In Brawl, you'd only have to play 450. And their are more characters to unlock. Furthermore, a quick playthrough of the Subspace Emissary could unlock characters rather quickly. For me, it was just to easy. I had every character unlocked within two months, maybe less.

I think, other than what Sakurai put on smashbros.com, that the reason why Brawl had characters basically handed to us was because of its massive hype. With Melee you didn't really know who was in the game until you ran into them accidentally--either through the "Challenger Approaching" Screen, hearsay (from others who just unlocked them,etc), or other means. With Brawl, ALOT of people knew about its presence, and the main concern was "Who's in the game?! WHO'S IN THE GAME!?!?"

Many people knew who'd be in the game. Sites had a confirmed list of characters and there were many videos, blogs and threads about them. Since many were aware of who got in, it would be kind of frustrating to jump through Melee-level hoops to get them in. I read on smashbros.com a comment from Sakurai that said the easiest way to get the characters is through Subspace. He mentioned the popularity of the internet, and a possible scenario where someone would be using an unlocked character on Wi-Fi as reasons why the developers made obtaining the characters easy. For Smash 4, if the characters are hard to obtain, then maybe the unlockable characters should remain a mystery.

 

[Shorts]

For Smash 4, if the characters are hard to obtain, then maybe the unlockable characters should remain a mystery.

I think Sakurai should leave the blogging to the fans and not post another Smash Dojo. I preffered reading about people doing insanely in-depth analysis on every tid bit of info we got for other games. Doing that for brawl was, to an extent at least, useless because the confirmation of whether you were right or wrong could be answered with tomorrow's update. I DO think he should use something similar to the original site. He takes viewer's ideas into conisderation and reply's every week. Maybe have seven charcter pictures and some info up their as well.

Mario, Link, Pika, Kirby, Samus, Fox, *Insert Single Newcomer*.

Lastly, we should only start out with a maximum of three newcomers. I feel, and I think you guys can agree, that newcomers should more or less stay unlockable. On the original site the first characters ever posted were Wario, Zero Suit, Snake, Pit, and Meta Knight. (I think, maybe just Wario, Snake and Pit)

 

[ryuu seika]

3rd parties are special in that they have to be shown off to have the desired effect but not knowing who the other newcomers are would be a plus in my mind. One or two newcomers on the starting roster would be ok but getting newcomers should have a sense of discovery about it. Also, 3rd parties should not be on the starting roster under any circumstances IMO, even if they are on the back of the box.