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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Shorts

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I still don't like having to vote for pokemon and trainers I don't want.
THAT'S LIFEEEEEE! I understand you don't want to. It issss kind of annoying. But hey, it's thorough and that's why I kept it. Or else if i would have done choose your favorite character, then your favorite combintation. I would get Kanto but with Venasaur, charmeleon, and squirtle. which may not be what we really wanted.

Anyway, when I hit 100 votes, we can bring this up again. Lets move on :)
 

tRoll King

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Looking for a quick top five in teams. Just opinions, doesn't have to be all hurr durr there is no doubles tier list. I know Wario and G&W are pretty good.
 

gantrain05

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all pokemon should be on the same ballot, we don't vote for mario from every mario game, doesn't make sense. pokemon shouldn't have a zillion reps just because there are ten thousand pokemons.
 

majora_787

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God yes. Also I'd support Peppy if it was BitF's Peppy.
They'd both be their own tiers. Do we really want FOUR characters in their own tiers?

Anyway. In all seriousness. Do you know what would be awesome? If SSB4 were announced at e3. I wouldn't care if we had to wait 6-12 months for any OTHER information, and then another 12-18 months before we get it. That would just make my e3. =P
 

mystery_dungeon

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they'd both be their own tiers. Do we really want four characters in their own tiers?
Four? Whose the fourth one? Is it that annoying Kirby?

anyway. In all seriousness. Do you know what would be awesome? If ssb4 were announced at e3. I wouldn't care if we had to wait 6-12 months for any other information, and then another 12-18 months before we get it. That would just make my e3. =p
SSB4 alone would make E3 awesome. But that's why it won't happen. :troll:
 

majora_787

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Four? Whose the fourth one? Is it that annoying Kirby?



SSB4 alone would make E3 awesome. But that's why it won't happen. :troll:
Yeh well. I think it's possible that we'd get the Pikmin-3 sort of details on SSB4 in e3. Then, two and a half years from then we'll have it after it gets delayed 3 times. Haha, no.

Well, Meta is in his own tier on top. Ganondorf is in his own tier on the bottom. BitF Waaweegee would be in the "Waaweegee" tier, and BitF Peppy would be in the "Barrel Roll" tier.
 

Shorts

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I just looked up who Prince Fluff was. And is he an interesting character?

Anyone played Epic Yarn? Does he show anys signs of showing up again?

SSB4 at E3 2011 is wishful thinking D:
 

mystery_dungeon

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Well, Meta is in his own tier on top. Ganondorf is in his own tier on the bottom. BitF Waaweegee would be in the "Waaweegee" tier, and BitF Peppy would be in the "Barrel Roll" tier.
In that case, I demand a fifth tier, with Cranky having it to himself. It can be called "Fourth Wall" tier.

"You kids and your competitive fighting games. When I was younger, the only competition we had was to see who could get the highest score."
 

majora_787

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Lol at 4th wall humor.

Anyway, I dunno if it's too wishful. 2013 sounds like a good time for SSB4 to be coming out-- 5 years after Brawl. And we'd be hearing about it two years before its release, LIKE we did with Brawl.

Then again, if we heard a Pikmin 3 amount of info on it, it'd probably be 3 years. But I have to say, one of the most amusing parts of smash games is when info is coming out on a regular basis and people get to speculate on something that's there.

Then there's when the game comes out, and you get to play it.

I can only pray that there is no STICKER deal. Seriously?

"Here, let's make these items that show up randomly in a match! There will be 700 of them, and you have to collect them all to get 100! Oh, and their spawn rates are random! OH, and how about making it so when you have 699, the 700th sticker is still just as likely to spawn?

And here's a really good plan! Let's make it so people can't grind for stickers by putting a 255 sticker cap on each match before they have to start over!"

>_< Seriously? Seeeeeriously Sakurai? There are only two things I don't like about Brawl. Stickers, and tripping. Now, if they replaced stickers with cards... like in NMH where it's a card with the name and some art on it, that's cool. And if they made a LOTTERY so that you could like input lots of coins until you're guaranteed a new one each time almost? Uber awesome.

End sticker rant. =P
 

mystery_dungeon

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Now, if they replaced stickers with cards... like in NMH where it's a card with the name and some art on it, that's cool.
Cards eh? I wouldn't mind if they went like this

Front (Character Name and art)
Back (Their good point, bad point, like, & dislike (like Mega Man & Bass with those disks))

Example

Wario

Good Point: incredibly strong
Bad Point: selfishly greedy
Likes: money
Dislikes: Mario
 

Arcadenik

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I just looked up who Prince Fluff was. And is he an interesting character?

Anyone played Epic Yarn? Does he show anys signs of showing up again?

SSB4 at E3 2011 is wishful thinking D:

Well, Midna shows no signs of coming back in another Zelda game, especially when she was the one who broke the mirror, guaranteeing that she will never come back to Hyrule. and yet we have many people wanting her to be in Smash as if she is one of the faces of the Zelda series. Go figure. I would rather have Wolf Link over Midna if we had to have a Twilight Princess character.

Prince Fluff is basically the second player's character. If fans don't want two Kirbys but they still want a character who can have an Epic Yarn moveset, Prince Fluff is a good choice.

I actually had a similar idea with collectible cards. They would be like Pokemon Trading Cards. They would have a character's name, their first game appearance, artwork on one side, and their properties on the other side.

I still want the trophies to come back. They are fun to look at and I like to read their descriptions. But the collection should be better than Brawl. I don't like how we only got Twilight Princess and The Wind Water trophies for the Zelda series. There were nothing from Four Swords Adventures, The Minish Cap, the Oracle games, and the pre-N64 games.

Wario and Mother suck. Only Wario, Kat and Ana, Ness, Lucas, Jeff, and Porky? That's it? Come on, I know they have more content than that.
 

Moogi

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I still want the trophies to come back. They are fun to look at and I like to read their descriptions. But the collection should be better than Brawl. I don't like how we only got Twilight Princess and The Wind Water trophies for the Zelda series. There were nothing from Four Swords Adventures, The Minish Cap, the Oracle games, and the pre-N64 games.

Wario and Mother suck. Only Wario, Kat and Ana, Ness, Lucas, Jeff, and Porky? That's it? Come on, I know they have more content than that.
I totally agree with you there. Over 700 trophies and they barely cover certain series. Heck, I was also disappointed when I saw the Fire Emblem trophy collection. What happened to Marth's two games? Better yet... what happened to most of the FE series except for the games Ike was in?
 

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The only thing worse than Stickers is The Subspace Emissary. I think we should definitely bring back a more complicated/interesting v ersion of melee's Adventure mode. Something with a changable path, depending on what you do. I liked melee's adventure.
 

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They'd both be their own tiers. Do we really want FOUR characters in their own tiers?

Anyway. In all seriousness. Do you know what would be awesome? If SSB4 were announced at e3. I wouldn't care if we had to wait 6-12 months for any OTHER information, and then another 12-18 months before we get it. That would just make my e3. =P
It's still too early. Sakurai said that he wasn't even going to think about a possible SSB4 until Project Sora (AKA Kid Icarus: Uprising) was finished. With that being said, the earliest that they'd even begin development for it would be Q4 this year which means that any announcement pertaining to it wouldn't be announced until E3 2012 at the earliest.

God, has it almost been 5 years since Brawl was announced? The fact that I'm about to begin graduate school and it was announced like two weeks before I graduated high school weirds me out spectacularly.

Then again, you have consider how Nintendo seems to have adopted a new policy where new games are announced much later in their development so we may not even hear anything until 2013. I still think that Iwata chose that policy because of how much butthurt there was over Brawl and Twilight Princess because of how much hype both games created.

I just looked up who Prince Fluff was. And is he an interesting character?

Anyone played Epic Yarn? Does he show anys signs of showing up again?

SSB4 at E3 2011 is wishful thinking D:
I have. It's a fun romp but I doubt that it will stand out as one of the major Kirby games. Prince Fluff is the equivalent of Gooey in Kirby's Dreamland 3 so there really aren't that many characteristics that set him aside from Kirby. Besides, Kirby already has enough reps. You have the main three characters already and anything added on top of that would pretty much be overkill.

Add in: I wouldn't be surprized in the least if there was an Epic Yarn stage though and, in fact, I strongly hope one ends up being added.
 

majora_787

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Well, I see it this way... Sakurai doesn't have to make smash if he doesn't want to. I believe that Smash is successful enough that they will lend the series to someone else while Sakurai takes a break, provided Nintendo decides that's necessary.

But yeah, I will agree on the announcement thing...
 

Shorts

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It's still too early. You have the main three characters already and anything added on top of that would pretty much be overkill..
Overkill? That's a harsh word for ONE more character. I think of extra characters as icing on the smash cake. :) Then again, so long as the character is deserving ENOUGH. I mean I wouldnt want the new Mario character to be a koopa, or a Shy Guy. That would be lame.

If you compare Prince Fluff to Midna, I would consider them not really to be a negative addition. Just an addition, not the most important, but still decent. Besides, I believe we have argued that basically all the "needed" or "Important" characters are in. The only way to expand now is More Franchises, and Building up existing ones.

So, basically. I don't like the term overkill for one new character. Ha.

Basically if Sakurai isn't looking at another chance of SSB4 until Project Sora is over, I can see us waiting a decade.... I hope that Nintendo get's some new minds on SSB4. Especially considering that Sakurai is acting so Pessimistic. It makes me mad that he has already admitted defeat in making a game better than melee.
 

Big-Cat

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Again, don't think so much if they're deserving. You have to think of HOW THEY PLAY and if THEY BRING SOMETHING NEW. That's why Megaman's not in MvC3.

I can't say anything on Price Fluff, but Midna can very well bring a new playstyle, possibly being the Dhalsim of Smash.
 

majora_787

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I'm always open to NEW new games. TWEWY? Muramasa? No More Heroes?

Woot, woot. Series continuity is great and all, but you need new coolness too.
 

SmashChu

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Um Project Sora is the name of the developer Sakurai is now with, it's not the codename for the new Kid Icarus game.
Not, it was (Iwata even called it Project Sora before it was revealed

Sora is the name of his studio which is him and another person (agent most likely)

Again, don't think so much if they're deserving. You have to think of HOW THEY PLAY and if THEY BRING SOMETHING NEW. That's why Megaman's not in MvC3.

I can't say anything on Price Fluff, but Midna can very well bring a new playstyle, possibly being the Dhalsim of Smash.
Uhhhh, let's not use Capcom as an example of chosing good rosters. Marvel vs Capcom 3 is full of fillers and the decision to leave out Megaman was stupid to say the least. Sakurai does a much better job picking characters.
 

ToiseOfChoice

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Again, don't think so much if they're deserving. You have to think of HOW THEY PLAY and if THEY BRING SOMETHING NEW. That's why Megaman's not in MvC3.
This ain't MvC3, son! And considering you can make anyone into something new, it's really not the best criteria for adding characters.


So, basically. I don't like the term overkill for one new character. Ha.
It wouldn't be overkill if adding characters was a simple process, if we weren't already somewhat packed in terms of roster size, and if there weren't tons of other characters and series that can provide much better contributions towards the cast.

Also Midna is a terrible character.



I'm a little disappointed that DekuBoy didn't post a link about the new Kirby or that Pandora's Tower game.
 

Big-Cat

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Uhhhh, let's not use Capcom as an example of chosing good rosters. Marvel vs Capcom 3 is full of fillers and the decision to leave out Megaman was stupid to say the least. Sakurai does a much better job picking characters.
Do you know why Megaman was cut? And what are these fillers? Let me know and I'll see if I agree.

And your fanboyism is showing.
This ain't MvC3, son! And considering you can make anyone into something new, it's really not the best criteria for adding characters.
That's not entirely true. If Captain Falcon was a grappler, would that be faithful to his games? Sure, he didn't have anything going into SSB64, but the spirit of the F-Zero games - speed- is in his playstyle.

This is why the choices for specials for Ness and Lucas tick me off. Ness is a tank in his game, but he's nothing of the sort in Smash with his specials. You want to retain the identity of the character in the transition.
 

SmashChu

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Do you know why Megaman was cut? And what are these fillers? Let me know and I'll see if I agree.

And your fanboyism is showing.
Rumors say Megaman was cut because he wasn't unique. The official talk was because they'd have to recreate the character (they are doing that with Jill) and he'd have to have a lot of moves (Dante has 40+)

Here are the fillers. Note that what I'm calling fillers are characters who aren't important on their own or they are lacking compared to a lot of choices.

Trish-No one actually likes her. She's just there
X23-A lot of comic book fans hate her
She Hulk-Hulk with boobs. There are more people from the Fantastic Four who would be better....
Super Skrull-A replacement for the Human Torch. Rather than use a recognizable character, they went for villain you probably don't know (they added him because he could use all the Fantastic Four's moves. Unique=/=good)
MODOK-Comic books are know for their good villains. MODOK is one known for losing. Not a good villian. Also, obscure and too weird
Sentinel-Only added to please tourney guys. No one actually wanted him
Hsien-ko-WAY WAY out of place. She doesn't fit in with the rest of the cast and there was no need for three Darkstalker characters (Viewtiful Joe deserved more characters than what darkstalkers got)

There are likely more on the Capcom side. I'd argue Akuma because Bison was in higher demand and there are some people who don't like him being too close top Ryu, but some people like him.

The big thing I see with the roster is the NEED top put female characters on it. There are fans out there that demand having more female characters, so the developers listen to them and put in characters who are, indeed, women, but who aren't that great and there could have been better characters. Note they added these characters and we didn't get Venom, Gambit, Cyclops, Megaman or Captain Commando, all characters people wanted, have been in the first two, and were important in their respective series. This is the reason I'm glad Sakurai picked Wolf over Krystal.
 

ToiseOfChoice

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That's not entirely true. If Captain Falcon was a grappler, would that be faithful to his games? Sure, he didn't have anything going into SSB64, but the spirit of the F-Zero games - speed- is in his playstyle.
Okay, I'll bite: how does this help the argument that adding characters for playstyle/uniqueness is a better decision than adding characters for the characters themselves?


This is why the choices for specials for Ness and Lucas tick me off. Ness is a tank in his game, but he's nothing of the sort in Smash with his specials. You want to retain the identity of the character in the transition.
Well this is just nitpicking. I like his Smash self compared to EB, and frankly having shields and buffs wouldn't be as fun as just shooting fire and lightning. He can cure himself already anyway.



edit @Chu: sounds like an Arcadenik roster, doh-ho-ho
 

Big-Cat

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@SmashChu

While X-23 and Modok are the most questionable ones, She-Hulk is a completely different character from Hulk. Watch any of the trailers and gameplay videos and you'll see they play nothing alike. From what I can see, this is just your bias against these characters and in favor for other characters based off of your own criteria.

I don't know while Venom would be cut, but my guess for the X-Men characters being cut was to balance representation (4 SF characters against 4 X-Men characters) and to not overpopulate the roster. I'm not touching Megaman. Captain Commando I'm not sure of either.

@Toise
From a gameplay perspective, it's a better decision. Your roster should be diverse so as to appeal to as many people as possible. However, from a fanservice standpoint, you want to add characters for who they are.

Take Megaman: Some of the things he could've done is have a bunch of robot master weapons, but this is taken care of by Dante. You could have weapon switching like Volnutt in TvC, but this is arguably better implemented by Amaterasu. Then you have mass projectile spamming, but Arthur does this. The problem with these, particularly the first one, is that he would be more like a combination of the robot masters and less of himself. At least Super Skrull has the Fantastic 4 powers in canon.

For Ness, you gotta be creative. He's more than stat boosts and healing. PK Flash, Rockin' (functionally the same as PK Fire), Teleport, and Paralysis would do enough justice. Mind you that I just ignored his playstyle, but still.
 

ToiseOfChoice

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Maybe I'm not articulating this as well as I should:

Any character can be modeled (within reason given size/weight) into pretty much any playstyle. This is well established, everyone here knows or should know this, etc.

Why would a character be included or excluded on the grounds that they're automatically "too similar" in gameplay-style (which in Smash hasn't stopped certain characters from being included) when any character can be made into any part of the whole ensemble?


Considering Capcom didn't care to use Mega Man or anything from Monster Hunter, I don't really think we should be looking to them for sound roster advice.
 

Big-Cat

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I know they can be modeled into any playstyle, but I'd like to play a character in a style similar to his games than to be playing as someone only in name. Playing as Peach with slow speed, throwing fireballs, and a Landmaster is not playing Peach to me, but something else named Peach.

And obvious bias is obvious. I'm not saying Capcom and Marvel's decisions are perfect (still confused about the lack of Venom and Strider), but they didn't have to include anything from Monster Hunter because you like it so much. Besides, DLC makes anything possible. Since we're getting Jill Valentine and Shuma-Gorath a month after release (they aren't finished yet), more characters such as Megaman can happen. Also, they said that Phoenix Wright is a possible candidate if they do more DLC characters. Frank West is likely up there too (he's more or less MvC3's Mewtwo).
 

ToiseOfChoice

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I meant "playstyle" as in the overall function of the moveset themselves, the thing I assume you're most interested in. It'd be the difference between being quick/weak/floaty vs. slow/strong/weighted.

If you're talking about aesthetic uniqueness, well that's pretty flexible too, like with Mario and Luigi.
If you're suggesting that we'd be better off with the "unique" characters rather than the more beloved ones though, well nuts to that. People don't like that.


I'm not suggesting they include Mega Man or MH stuff because of me personally (I'm not buying the game anyway), I'm suggesting it because those are two of their biggest series. Not including the main character of one and anything from the other is lunacy. It'd be like having only Luigi and zero Pokemon.
 

DekuBoy

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I'm a little disappointed that DekuBoy didn't post a link about the new Kirby or that Pandora's Tower game.
Sorry, Toise I was at a play.

http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=148727

Here's Kirby. It looks like the Gamecube title that was canned. I'm glad a non-yarn game came out, as the yarn style would be hard to incorporate into Smash.

http://wii.nintendolife.com/news/20...g_is_nintendos_secretive_title_pandoras_tower

And here's their new IP. I guess RPG just due to the style.
 

SmashChu

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edit @Chu: sounds like an Arcadenik roster, doh-ho-ho
oh ho ho, you sly dog!

@Kuma: Before I begin, I for Shuma-gorath, who is also a junk character. He's one that Capcom loves, but has only appeared in 30 comics and isn't popular in the US (for a game targeted here).
@SmashChu

While X-23 and Modok are the most questionable ones, She-Hulk is a completely different character from Hulk. Watch any of the trailers and gameplay videos and you'll see they play nothing alike. From what I can see, this is just your bias against these characters and in favor for other characters based off of your own criteria.
Notice the bold? I've seen her gameplay. Yes, she doesn't play like Hulk. But your missing the point. The point is "Is She Hulk a character that would make people interested in this game?" The answer is no. Most people who only have a passing knowledge of Marvel would just see her as Hulk with boobs. In the same vein, there are other characters they could have added that would be more interesting. She Hulk is in the game because of the "She," part. This isn't how you make a good roster.

The whole point is choosing characters who are good, who should be in the games because they are recognizable and people generally like them.

I don't know while Venom would be cut, but my guess for the X-Men characters being cut was to balance representation (4 SF characters against 4 X-Men characters) and to not overpopulate the roster. I'm not touching Megaman. Captain Commando I'm not sure of either.
Remember they added two X-Men characters no one really likes (X23 and Sentinel). There is room for these characters.
 

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Okay, so basically developers should pander to people who don't read comics (nor play games) and people who don't care about comic book characters (nor video game characters) just as long as these "non-fans" recognize and know who they are, at the very least, when they are making rosters?

Ahh, I see. I guess I understand why Marvel vs. Capcom 2 was popular. It had a huge roster that looked like it was haphazardly put together with tons of characters "non-fans" can recognize and a handful few obscure characters that only the dedicated fans could recognize.

So the Marvel vs. Capcom rosters should always have the following:

Everyone from Super Street Fighter II Turbo (but it is mandatory to have at least Ryu and Chun-Li)
Morrigan, Felicia (because you know, boobs!)
Classic Mega Man (other versions are unacceptable except for maybe Mega Man X)
Any Capcom character who had a major role in a popular (it has to be popular!) game within the last five years
Wolverine
Spider-Man
Captain America
Iron Man
Hulk
Basically any Marvel character who had a major role in a Marvel movie within the last five years (because that is the only way the "non-fans" can recognize them even if the movies are inaccurate)
 

Big-Cat

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If you're talking about aesthetic uniqueness, well that's pretty flexible too, like with Mario and Luigi.
If you're suggesting that we'd be better off with the "unique" characters rather than the more beloved ones though, well nuts to that. People don't like that.
I'm not suggesting this at all. Ideally, you should get the beloved characters in and get them trying to play differently, or at least where it makes sense. I.e., people would be forgiving if Luigi plays similarly to Mario because it's always been that way, but not with Ganondorf being like Capt. Falcon. Then you have your other characters to add because they'd be unique and/or surprise picks like the Ice Climbers.

I'm not suggesting they include Mega Man or MH stuff because of me personally (I'm not buying the game anyway), I'm suggesting it because those are two of their biggest series. Not including the main character of one and anything from the other is lunacy. It'd be like having only Luigi and zero Pokemon.
Is there an actual character in Monster Hunter or is it that type of game where you create your own character?
 

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Something random I thought about last night: what if they decided to go in a completely different graphic direction for SSB4? I was thinking if they did cell shaded 2D like they did with Wario Land: Shake It. That game was like playing a cartoon and I personally think its style would fit very well in the Smash Bros universe.
 

SmashChu

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Okay, so basically developers should pander to people who don't read comics (nor play games) and people who don't care about comic book characters (nor video game characters) just as long as these "non-fans" recognize and know who they are, at the very least, when they are making rosters?

Ahh, I see. I guess I understand why Marvel vs. Capcom 2 was popular. It had a huge roster that looked like it was haphazardly put together with tons of characters "non-fans" can recognize and a handful few obscure characters that only the dedicated fans could recognize.

So the Marvel vs. Capcom rosters should always have the following:

Everyone from Super Street Fighter II Turbo (but it is mandatory to have at least Ryu and Chun-Li)
Morrigan, Felicia (because you know, boobs!)
Classic Mega Man (other versions are unacceptable except for maybe Mega Man X)
Any Capcom character who had a major role in a popular (it has to be popular!) game within the last five years
Wolverine
Spider-Man
Captain America
Iron Man
Hulk
Basically any Marvel character who had a major role in a Marvel movie within the last five years (because that is the only way the "non-fans" can recognize them even if the movies are inaccurate)
Arcadenik, when every anyone says something, you blow it far out of proportion.

First, Marvel vs Capcom 2 was popular to a small group of people. None of Capcom's VS games sell more than a million copies despite having popular properties.

In the US, comic book are all but dead being replaced by mangas (which are fading out as well). The Marvel heros live on in television and movies. The characters that should be added are ones people actually recognize.

@Kuma: Let me restate this. I think we've said a lot but never said why it should be adding who over what.

In the end, most people will deviate towards characters because they like how they play or they are good with them (this is true more so for higher skilled players). This is why Capcom, who makes a lot of fighting games, tries to make everyone unique, so it would make sense to remove Megaman because, in their eyes, no one will play him. However, people are attracted to this game and willing to try it because of who they can play as. So let's take MODOK. MODOK is a very unique character. But, you have to ask, would people play the game for MODOK? Seeing as how he rarely shows up and is a weird flying head thing, I would say not. But characters like Venom, who are very recognizable, will. Characters draw people to this game. Ever wonder why balance is so important to a lot of people? It's because they want to play as their favorite characters. So they will be upset if X sucks.
 

Big-Cat

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Something random I thought about last night: what if they decided to go in a completely different graphic direction for SSB4? I was thinking if they did cell shaded 2D like they did with Wario Land: Shake It. That game was like playing a cartoon and I personally think its style would fit very well in the Smash Bros universe.
I'd like that more than the realistic, washed out look Brawl has. Although, Wario Land Shake It was done with hand drawn sprites. For a cast of 35+ characters, it'd be a of effort to animate these characters compared to using 3D models.

It'd be kind of nice if they combined Brawl's style with 64's cartoony artwork for some kind of hybrid style that could accommodate the different series. Or an entirely different style. Marvel's shown us a combic book style. I wonder what Nintendo could come up with.

@SmashChu
If all you had were just the popular characters that everyone recognized, don't you think it'd be rather boring? But really, I'm tired of arguing with you since you're all about appealing to the lowest common denominator and completely ignoring satisfying any additional niches.
 

SmashChu

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@SmashChu
If all you had were just the popular characters that everyone recognized, don't you think it'd be rather boring? But really, I'm tired of arguing with you since you're all about appealing to the lowest common denominator and completely ignoring satisfying any additional niches.
There is your problem there. Niche implies "small," Focusing on a small segment gets you no where. Focusing on the larger whole is what gets you somewhere. This is why Smash Brothers does well and Marvel vs Capcom does not. Of course, it all boils down to the fact that you want Nintendo to be like Capcom.

The thing is Smash has lesser known characters, but they never dominate the roster. They are added here and there. Pit, for instance, or Ness, Ice Climbers or even the Fire Emblem characters (in the US). But note that they are few and far between.

Even still, a lot of characters they add were well known in the past. Kid Icarus was well known in the days of the NES (Eggplant Wizard and Pit even appeared in Captain N). Outside of Ness, most of the obscure characters would be one that haven't appeared in a while. In Marvel vs Capcom, these would be characters like Arthur and Haggar. They were popular in their own time. Now, they added characters who are just obscure. Smash has only done that with Ness.
 

flyinfilipino

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I don't really know much about MvC, but it looks like they've already included a lot of the most popular characters that people recognize and like. There are lots of big names, and characters that hardcore Marvel fans, hardcore Capcom fans, and fans of MvC2 would enjoy. Plus they added some other characters for flavor and diversity. What's wrong with wanting to broaden the audience with some lesser known characters along with the big names? No one gives a crap about the Ice Climbers or Mr. Game and Watch, but does that mean Brawl's roster is absolute crap?
 

Arcadenik

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And yet I am having difficulty understanding why Smashchu is so dead set against Meowth's inclusion in Smash. Even "non-fans" recognize Meowth because of the anime, too. Go figure. :rolleyes:

People recognize Pikachu because it is the mascot of the Pokemon franchise and is the main star of the anime since the first episode.

People recognize Mewtwo because it was the starring Pokemon of the first Pokemon movie.

People recognize Lucario because of that movie starring Lucario and it was the mascot of the 4th gen.

People recognize Jigglypuff because it was that singing balloon thingy that used to put people to sleep in the old episodes of the anime.

People recognize Pokemon Trainer because Red closely resembles Ash Ketchum of the anime and they recognize Ash's Squirtle and Charizard (not so much with Ivysaur but at least it closely resembles Ash's Bulbasaur). Have we found a loophole in the "no anime" rule? :p

People recognize Pichu because it is a baby Pikachu (rather fitting that it ended up a Pikachu clone in Melee).

People are going to recognize Zoroark because it is the star of that new Pokemon movie starring Zoroark and it seems to be set up as the mascot of the 5th gen.

People recognize Meowth because it is that talking cat who is the third member of Team Rocket and is the second main Pokemon of the anime (after Pikachu) since the second episode.

These few Pokemon actually do stand out from the crowd of 649 Pokemon.
 
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