[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[majora_787]

I'm going to put my input here, just because...

Characters who could get cut?

Pokemon Trainer. Actually, his POKEMON to be more precise. I have a feeling his pokemon COULD... as in, he could stay unchanged... be updated to 2nd generation.

Ness. He was going to be replaced by Lucas in Melee, right? He has a possibility, for sure.

Lucario. He's there to represent the 4th generation of pokemon. We'll have someone, probably Zoroark, represent the 5th generation next time around. And before you ask, they picked Pichu to represent 2nd gen. But since he is sort of a joke character, Mewtwo was in too. I'm sure if there were a pokemon like Lucario or Zoroark from the 2nd generation, we wouldn't have had Mewtwo.

Ike. I have a feeling that if there is a new Fire Emblem game, like a NEW new one, Ike could be cut for a new lord. It's not totally out there, it happened to Roy.

Characters who probably won't get cut...

Snake. Snake was put in as a favor. A favor that would have been implimented in MELEE if more time had been available. Taking Snake out would be like asking someone to try your cooking. They give you something that they spent all day making, you take maybe one bite, and just throw it away right there. See a problem?

Sonic, I'm under this impression: He's the most wanted 3rd party there is. Keeping Sonic is probably going to keep the fans happy, generally speaking. But I dunno, he's sort of borderline.

Toon Link. Toon Link is around to represent a sort of alternate Link. Young Link did the same thing, but at the time of Melee there wasn't a gigantic split timeline deal or whatever that is. Now, we do. One clearly represents one side, one clearly represents the other. But at this point, it's kinda Console Link and Handheld Link. That's probably how it'll stay.

R.O.B. WHY on earth do people complain about ROB? Do you seriously hate new and original characters that much? My god... He's like the new Mr. Game & Watch. I doubt he's a one-time deal.

Wolf. He isn't a clone, stop it.

Falco. He isn't... Well, I guess he's a half-clone. But still, stop it.

Lucas. He was about to replace Ness. And he's deffinately not a clone.

Characters I feel could make it...

Zoroark to replace Lucario and represent the 5th generation of Pokemon/
K. Rool, as the main antagonist of the Donkey Kong series.
Ridley, as a main antagonist of the Metroid series.
Bowser Jr., as a secondary antagonist of the Mario series.

And one more thing. Falco? Wolf? Lucas? Ganondorf? THEY AREN'T CLONES. I think some of you people forget what clones are. A clone is two characters with the same frame and moveset. These guys have different playstyles, mostly different movesets. Sharing general specials? That's not a clone. Seriously.

Alright, I'm done. =P That's all I got.

 

[BBQTV]

yeah it's ok to be gay

Spoiler

but it's not ok to be furry

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I actually feel that Mewtwo's chances of returning are greater than Lucario's, if only slightly greater.

The thing about Mewtwo is that his removal was sudden. Most everyone expected Mewtwo to appear in Brawl, so when he didn't it took everyone by surprise. Having something taken away by surprise isn't exactly something anyone would enjoy, and so that is a big part of the backlash in Mewtwo's removal.

But Lucario... see, he's popular and everything. But it seems that most people expect him to be cut, or at least acknowledge that there is a chance. Getting something taken away is no fun, but it's even worse if it's a surprise like Mewtwo was. Lucario's removal wouldn't be much of a surprise.

Basically, Lucario's removal wouldn't be as upsetting as Mewtwo's was, and Mewtwo's return would definitely make up for it anyway.

 

[Dynamite]

I'm going to put my input here, just because...

Characters who could get cut?

Pokemon Trainer. Actually, his POKEMON to be more precise. I have a feeling his pokemon COULD... as in, he could stay unchanged... be updated to 2nd generation.

Ness. He was going to be replaced by Lucas in Melee, right? He has a possibility, for sure.
Lucario. He's there to represent the 4th generation of pokemon. We'll have someone, probably Zoroark, represent the 5th generation next time around. And before you ask, they picked Pichu to represent 2nd gen. But since he is sort of a joke character, Mewtwo was in too. I'm sure if there were a pokemon like Lucario or Zoroark from the 2nd generation, we wouldn't have had Mewtwo.

Ike. I have a feeling that if there is a new Fire Emblem game, like a NEW new one, Ike could be cut for a new lord. It's not totally out there, it happened to Roy.

[Alright, I'm done. =P That's all I got.

Though it's true Lucas was suppose to replace Ness in Melee it didn't happen. Ness has been apart of the smash series since the very beginning. If anything Lucas has a higher chance to be cut than Ness does.
I don't really care for Zoroark but I won't be suprised if he's included. I'd rather see Mewtwo come back. I would like for Mewtwo's smashes to have more knockback and his forward smash needs less lag. His side B move move either needs to be changed entirely or have it become more useful.

 

[Arcadenik]

I wouldn't mind seeing the following characters get removed:

Ness or Lucas
Ike
Snake
Sonic
Pokemon Trainer (including his 1st gen starters)
Jigglypuff
Lucario
Falco or Wolf

On a side note, I personally don't care for furries. They can yiff with other furries or humans for all I care (at least the furries are still humans under those silly fursuits). However, it is definitely never okay to be a zoophile! I mean, seriously? WTF?!

 

[Big-Cat]

Can someone tell me where Sakurai has said that recent characters replace other characters? The only one that this can apply to is Young Link, but I never considered that he was cut. If anything, anything that is guaranteed to be in because it's recent is artstyle (Zelda and Starfox characters for example).

For the cut characters....

Mewtwo and Roy - It's a fact that these two were far in development and may have likely been playable before being shot down, especially Mewtwo. I think these guys will come back, hopefully with Roy and Mewtwo having improved movesets.

Young Link - Like I said, I don't think he was cut, just given an update. Toon Link may be replaced by the newest Child Link.

Dr. Mario - Was one of the Forbidden 7. If anything, he'll make a comeback as an alternate costume.

Pichu - As far as I know, this guy wasn't all well received because he deliberately sucked and he was one of the ones people immediately accepted as being cut.

I think the only ones that may get cut is any of the newcomers that were unlockable.
Lucario - I'm not really sure with this one.
Toon Link - Again, just to be replaced by the newest Child Link artstyle.
Wolf - To make room for Krystal (if her popularity is high enough), but this is under the assumption that they don't make room for four SF characters, and that they will stay at three characters.

 

[majora_787]

Ness stayed because of something involving the game being delayed or cancelled or something. He stayed in Brawl due to time constraints, was what I was told.

Ness or Lucas - If either, it would be Ness.Ike - Only if he gets a fill-in.
Snake - I highly doubt it.
Sonic - I kinda doubt it.
Pokemon Trainer (including his 1st gen starters) - He'd be upgraded.
Jigglypuff - Uhhhmmm... Maybe?
Lucario - Replaced.
Falco or Wolf - Why? There's no good reason for it.

On a side note, I personally don't care for furries. They can yiff with other furries or humans for all I care (at least the furries are still humans under those silly fursuits). However, it is definitely never okay to be a zoophile! I mean, seriously? WTF?!

Snake was in the game by request. It would be like giving someone a christmas present, and they throw it away NEXT christmas because "they stuck around for a year". Sonic is a fan favorite. He got in because fans really REALLY wanted him. I see a problem if he gets removed.

I can't see anyone replacing Jiggs, even if he/she has overstayed just a bit.

Nothing is wrong with Falco or Wolf, especially Wolf. Falco could be made a bit more unique, but still.

 

[Big-Cat]

Ness stayed because of something involving the game being delayed or cancelled or something. He stayed in Brawl due to time constraints, was what I was told.

What happened with Melee was that Lucas was supposed to be in and replace Ness (I might have this little part wrong). However, MOTHER 3 went into development hell and Ness got to stay. As a result, he has cemented his status as a series mainstay.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Though it's true Lucas was suppose to replace Ness in Melee it didn't happen. Ness has been apart of the smash series since the very beginning. If anything Lucas has a higher chance to be cut than Ness does.

Quoted for Truth. I don't think Ness is leaving anytime soon.

I don't really care for Zoroark but I won't be suprised if he's included. I'd rather see Mewtwo come back. I would like for Mewtwo's smashes to have more knockback and his forward smash needs less lag. His side B move move either needs to be changed entirely or have it become more useful.

I wouldn't be surprised either. But why not have both Zoroark and Mewtwo? Five slots is likely for the Pokemon series and the three first generation reps plus Zoroark and the return of Mewtwo seems likely. That means Lucario would get the boot though, for reasons I've explained earlier.

 

[Heartstring]

the thing we're forgetting about the reasons behind the removal of characters in melee, it was because all (except one) were clones of antoher character, and the one that was cut was the lesser known one, the reason mewtwo got cut is beyond me though

i reckon providing there are no clones (and there are no clones, teh closest thing to a clone in brawl is probably falco, he he is definetely cemented in the game) very few will get cut

 

[BBQTV]

uhhhhhh falco is very de-cloned

 

[Heartstring]

uhhhhhh falco is very de-cloned

exactly my point, there is nothing close to a clnoe in brawl

 

[BBQTV]

oh, never mind

 

[Spydr Enzo]

the thing we're forgetting about the reasons behind the removal of characters in melee, it was because all (except one) were clones of antoher character, and the one that was cut was the lesser known one, the reason mewtwo got cut is beyond me though

i reckon providing there are no clones (and there are no clones, teh closest thing to a clone in brawl is probably falco, he he is definetely cemented in the game) very few will get cut

Not exactly...

1) Young Link didn't get cut only because he was a clone, but because his games were becoming out of date and Toon Link (the newer version of Child Link) has had several popular and familiar games arise between Melee and Brawl.

2) Pichu was a joke character and wasn't exactly the mst popular character, that's why he got cut along with the fact that he's a clone. Doctor Mario got cut because of time limitations in Brawl.

3) Roy got cut due to time limitations, as did Mewtwo. They would have been in if it weren't for the inclusion of Ike and Lucario, who at the time were higher priority to Sakurai due to the fact that they represent a more recent generation in their respective series. THAT is also the reason why Mewtwo got cut.

So as you can see, they really din't get cut just because they were clones. If that were the case, we wouldn't have Toon Link, and Roy and Dr. Mario wouldn't have been considered.


In Brawl, the clones have become less of clones and more of semi-clones. They share many similar moves, mostly special moves, but they may be executed in a different manner, or they may have several different moves completely. Also, the closest thing to a clone in Brawl is Toon Link. He shares MANY of Link's standard moves and all of his special moves (though they do vary slightly in some minor way).

But yes, very few characters will get cut. Lucario has the highest chance, and I believe he will be the only cut character.

 

[Arcadenik]

What's the point of having Snake and Sonic? They are not Nintendo characters. I thought Smash was a fighting game with Nintendo characters. There's a reason they are called guests by Sakurai. Guests, you know what that word mean, right?

Jigglypuff... ugh. I'm sick of that Pokemon and I actually main her (honestly). I main her only because I like her moveset, not because I like her character (here's an opposite example, I like Wario for his character but I don't main him because I don't like his moveset). I'm starting to think that no one geninuely likes this Pokemon for itself. I think they only want Jigglypuff to come back for one of these reasons:

- she is one of the original 12 Smash characters
- she was in all three Smash games
- she has an unique moveset and is not a clone
- no one should ever be removed from Smash
- they cannot fathom the notion of a Jigglypuff-less Smash game because removing her is equivalent to dividing by zero

I haven't seen any reasons like:

- she's one of the major mascots of the franchise along with Pikachu, the starters, and the Legendary Pokemon
- she's had some major roles in the Pokemon spin-off games
- she's one of the main characters of the anime/movies
- she's the "flavor of the month" Pokemon of the 1st Gen (if that's even applicable)
- she's one of the most famous/popular Pokemon in the sea of 500+ Pokemon (although this is because she was in Smash)

I'm pretty sure that Jigglypuff was originally removed from Brawl and was added much later only to make the roster bigger along with Toon Link and Wolf (and possibly the majority of the Forbidden Seven). If Jigglypuff was added in SSB4, it won't be because she was one of Sakurai's first choices, it will be because she makes a good back-up filler to make the roster bigger in the last minute along with new clones.

Moving on to the Star Fox roster... there's one good reason why either Falco or Wolf would be removed and her name is Krystal. If Sakurai decides to limit the series at 3 characters but also wants to add a new Star Fox character, one of them has to go to make room for Krystal.

I'm in favor of removing/replacing older characters for newer characters (within reason) because it makes the roster feel fresh and new. Also, keeping the same old characters in sequels pretty much limits the number of newcomers, especially when you have to consider how many characters each series get and how many characters are going to be in the game.

For example, Melee had 25 (26) characters and Brawl has 35 (39) characters. But that doesn't mean Sakurai merely added 10 (13) newcomers in Brawl. No, he removed 5 characters and added 15 (18) newcomers. Some of these newcomers replaced the removed characters such as Lucario and Pokemon Trainer replacing Pichu and Mewtwo, Ike replacing Roy, and Toon Link replacing Young Link and only Dr. Mario didn't get any replacement (unless you want to count Wario since most of us expected him, not Dr. Mario, in Melee).

This is why I find it depressing to know that people cannot see Jigglypuff ever leaving the roster to make room for new Pokemon and yet accept the notion of Pokemon Trainer and Lucario and even Zoroark (if he's ever added) leaving to make room for new Pokemon. So, basically only Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo are supposed to be untouchable? I don't think so, only Pikachu should be untouchable since he's the mascot of the whole franchise while everyone else are easily replaced by new flavors of the month in the Pokemon games.

 

[majora_787]

Not exactly...

1) Young Link didn't get cut only because he was a clone, but because his games were becoming out of date and Toon Link (the newer version of Child Link) has had several popular and familiar games arise between Melee and Brawl.

2) Pichu was a joke character and wasn't exactly the mst popular character, that's why he got cut along with the fact that he's a clone. Doctor Mario got cut because of time limitations in Brawl.

3) Roy got cut due to time limitations, as did Mewtwo. They would have been in if it weren't for the inclusion of Ike and Lucario, who at the time were higher priority to Sakurai due to the fact that they represent a more recent generation in their respective series. THAT is also the reason why Mewtwo got cut.

So as you can see, they really din't get cut just because they were clones. If that were the case, we wouldn't have Toon Link, and Roy and Dr. Mario wouldn't have been considered.


In Brawl, the clones have become less of clones and more of semi-clones. They share many similar moves, mostly special moves, but they may be executed in a different manner, or they may have several different moves completely. Also, the closest thing to a clone in Brawl is Toon Link. He shares MANY of Link's standard moves and all of his special moves (though they do vary slightly in some minor way).

But yes, very few characters will get cut. Lucario has the highest chance, and I believe he will be the only cut character.

Honestly, here's what I thought... I was glad Pichu got cut, he was an even LIGHTER Pikachu that hurt itself when it attacked. Dr. Mario could just be a costume for Mario, and problems would be solved. They did it with Wario, they can do it with Mario.

Roy and Mewtwo... There is data apparently for them, especially Mewtwo. *apparently* there was even something of a Final Smash sound or something to that effect for him.

Toon Link, I feel is pretty much Young Link. It looks different, but it's the same transition as OoT Link to TP Link. They look new, they act new, they're new. So if they kept Toon Link, made Pichu and Doc Mario into costumes, and brought Mewtwo and Roy back, we'd have the problems solved with characters in a reasonable way.

But I'm probably asking too much. =\ Happens, but that's how I see it myself.

EDIT: The thing about that is if they remove too many characters, that starts to limit the fanservice that the game is MADE TO BE. I mean, let's say they take out Jigglypuff. People will enjoy SSB4 less because their favorite character was removed and may never come back.

That happened to me. Honestly, I would have *liked* for Roy and Mewtwo to stay in the game. *apparently* they were out because of time constrictions. Pichu and Doc could be costumes, Toon Link is basically Young Link, there we go. We've solved the cutting problem.

 

[ElPanandero]

I still want Young Link Back...

 

[Shorts]

We could sit here and yap all day about how ness and jigglypuff should be cut, but the simple fact is THEY WONT BE.

@SpydrEnzo, I think five slots is the perfect amount for pokemon. Pokemon, Mario, and possibly Legend Of Zelda could use five slots without having to add random characters like daisy ect. Heres an example:

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Bowser Jr
Pikachu, Jigglypuff, PT, Mewtwo, Zoroark
Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Vaati, or..... tingle >.>

Now, Kirby most certainly does not deserve five slots. Four, maybe. Fox has enough characters that are important in their own rights to have four. The only series that doesnt dererve another slot is probably Earthbound. Even Yoshi and Wario can be discussed, that is if yoshi will get off his lazy *** and make another game already.

Lastly, Diddy Kong, if he was to get another one of his own games, do you think his symol would change from "DK" to a Star? I wouldnt mind seeing him branch off on his own and somewhere in the future Diddy have his own second rep. Somewhere FAR in the future.

 

[Life]

^Actually, Vaati would be pretty sweet if you could get the non-demonic Minish Cap wizard version of him. Methinks Toon Zelda/Tetra is more likely, or perhaps Toon 'Dorf (could you imagine Ganondorf as he is now but more agile? Well, if he was decloned further from Falcon I guess.)

I don't see Diddy branching off of DK though. Remember, DK itself branched from Mario (as did Yoshi/Wario). Double-branch would be overkill.

 

[Johnny Citrus]

ridley needs to be a character

 

[Rychu]

ridley needs to be a character

Sure, then again, everyone else has that "needs to be in" character(for me, its Miles Edgeworth). The fact is that we can only guess on who it is until someone(preferably Sakurai) opens their mouths and talks about the game

 

[UberMario]

uhhhhhh falco is very de-cloned

If "Very" you mean on caliber with Luigi when it comes to cloneishness.

While the characters that are technically clones are none existant for the most part, there are plenty of half-clones (ignoring A moves, only looking at B moves) :

ROB is a half-clone of Pit (barely, but the B, Side B, and Up B are remarkably similar)
Falco is a clone of Fox (easily)
Wolf is a half-clone of Fox (it's only the graphics and attack momentum/effects that changed for his specials)
Luigi is a half-clone of Mario (compared to SSB and Melee he's diverted more significantly)
Toon Link is a clone of Link (VERY easily)
Ganondorf is a clone of Captain Falcon (even with some of his A moves)
Lucario is a clone of Mewtwo (easily, just with different effects)

If their movesets contain 2 or more specials that behae remarkably similar (which all of the above have THREE or more similar specials), they aren't truly unique characters.

exactly my point, there is nothing close to a clnoe in brawl

Toon Link, 'nuff said.

1) Young Link didn't get cut only because he was a clone, but because his games were becoming out of date and Toon Link (the newer version of Child Link) has had several popular and familiar games arise between Melee and Brawl.

Agreed, though both him and Toon could have had awesome, unique movesets . . . . . .

2) Pichu was a joke character and wasn't exactly the mst popular character, that's why he got cut along with the fact that he's a clone.

Yeah, as much as I hate to say it Pichu was only added to make the roster look larger than it "really was". Though I'd love to see him return with a unique moveset.

Doctor Mario got cut because of time limitations in Brawl.

Exactly, no arguments here.

3) Roy got cut due to time limitations, as did Mewtwo. They would have been in if it weren't for the inclusion of Ike and Lucario, who at the time were higher priority to Sakurai due to the fact that they represent a more recent generation in their respective series. THAT is also the reason why Mewtwo got cut.

While true, Mewtwo was apparently the very last character dropped, so they might have just scrapped the "forbidden seven" because they already had too many delays and knew if they had anymore fans wouldn't take the release date seriously. Roy was apparently next-to-last to be cut.

So as you can see, they really din't get cut just because they were clones. If that were the case, we wouldn't have Toon Link, and Roy and Dr. Mario wouldn't have been considered.

Agreed.

But yes, very few characters will get cut. Lucario has the highest chance, and I believe he will be the only cut character.

I think ROB will be cut aswell, as will Toon Link. (assuming there are any cuts made)

What's the point of having Snake and Sonic? They are not Nintendo characters. I thought Smash was a fighting game with Nintendo characters. There's a reason they are called guests by Sakurai. Guests, you know what that word mean, right?

Snake: Creator wanted him in, good enough reason especially since MGS3 most likely would not have come to the 3DS nor would Konami have remade MGS for the gamecube, meaning both sides benefit. (He was requested to be put in Melee but asked too late into the already rushed production rate)

Sonic: Ever since Sega shut their system-making doors people have wanted him in more than any other 3rd party character PERIOD. Only Megaman can rival when it comes to SSB 3rd party demand by the public.

Jigglypuff... ugh. I'm sick of that Pokemon and I actually main her (honestly). I main her only because I like her moveset, not because I like her character (here's an opposite example, I like Wario for his character but I don't main him because I don't like his moveset). I'm starting to think that no one geninuely likes this Pokemon for itself. I think they only want Jigglypuff to come back for one of these reasons:

- she is one of the original 12 Smash characters
- she was in all three Smash games
- she has an unique moveset and is not a clone
- no one should ever be removed from Smash
- they cannot fathom the notion of a Jigglypuff-less Smash game because removing her is equivalent to dividing by zero

I haven't seen any reasons like:

- she's one of the major mascots of the franchise along with Pikachu, the starters, and the Legendary Pokemon
- she's had some major roles in the Pokemon spin-off games
- she's one of the main characters of the anime/movies
- she's the "flavor of the month" Pokemon of the 1st Gen (if that's even applicable)
- she's one of the most famous/popular Pokemon in the sea of 500+ Pokemon (although this is because she was in Smash)

I'm pretty sure that Jigglypuff was originally removed from Brawl and was added much later only to make the roster bigger along with Toon Link and Wolf (and possibly the majority of the Forbidden Seven). If Jigglypuff was added in SSB4, it won't be because she was one of Sakurai's first choices, it will be because she makes a good back-up filler to make the roster bigger in the last minute along with new clones.

She's still popular to some degree in Japan and was the 2nd most popular pokemon of all time (behind Pikachu) during Generation I. She was also regularly in the anime, though her moveset is not related, the way she sings in the Japanese version is based on the melody of her singing in the anime. (Listen to it in Melee)

Moving on to the Star Fox roster... there's one good reason why either Falco or Wolf would be removed and her name is Krystal. If Sakurai decides to limit the series at 3 characters but also wants to add a new Star Fox character, one of them has to go to make room for Krystal.

Falco isn't going anywhere, he's basically Fox's second in command and has been there since the very first Star Fox game. Wolf being replaced by Krystal is more plausible if they choose not to declone him more.

I'm in favor of removing/replacing older characters for newer characters (within reason) because it makes the roster feel fresh and new. Also, keeping the same old characters in sequels pretty much limits the number of newcomers, especially when you have to consider how many characters each series get and how many characters are going to be in the game.

Honestly I think that character representation per series will increase to a 6-8 character "cap" [rather than the four character one in Brawl], as HAL is running out of popular series to base characters on and will eventually have to add additional characters from Mario, LoZ, Kirby, Pokemon, etc. because they are the "Big four" [DK doesn't count because he pretty much has only a MAX of four reasonable characters to any degree, Donkey, Diddy, K.Rool, and Dixie. Funky a distant 5th] independent series that really need more representation.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

What's the point of having Snake and Sonic? They are not Nintendo characters. I thought Smash was a fighting game with Nintendo characters. There's a reason they are called guests by Sakurai. Guests, you know what that word mean, right?

They aren't Nintendo characters and Sakurai knows this, he's even acknowledged that some people might not enjoy the fact that they are in the game. But he does call them "guest characters", and even if they stay for SSB4, it is still the thought that they are guest characters that helps me tolerate it.

I don't think that they are leaving though. Sonic is still popular enough to cause a big upset if he was removed (there would be those who are happy too). I think there would be a bigger upset if they were removed than the upset that arose when they were confirmed, which really wasn't that big.

[Jigglypuff Hatred]

I'm pretty sure Jigglypuff is staying. By now, her and Ness have a sort of nostalgic worth that would cause an upset if she was removed (I know, I'm using the word upset a lot). Sakurai obviously realizes this too. I mean she was a higher priority for him than Mewtwo was! Otherwise Mewtwo would have been finished before work on Jigglypuff even began.

Of course she is an easy character to implement and she also has an original moveset, two things that are looking good for her. But if she does stay, it's because Sakurai has acknowledged her nostalgic worth and has decided to keep her. I think he already did this with Brawl anyway.

I am 99.9% sure she is staying (I would say 100%, but that'd basically be saying that I know this for a fact, which I don't).

Moving on to the Star Fox roster... there's one good reason why either Falco or Wolf would be removed and her name is Krystal. If Sakurai decides to limit the series at 3 characters but also wants to add a new Star Fox character, one of them has to go to make room for Krystal.

Would Star Fox get four slots? It seems a bit unlikely, considering that would bring the series up to par with the Big Three; Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon. Unless they all get five slots. I don't know how likely it is that Krystal appears anymore, considering the series has been dead for a while and the other previously mentioned factors, but I think that if she does appear, she'll replace either Falco or Wolf... 50/50 on either of them.

This is why I find it depressing to know that people cannot see Jigglypuff ever leaving the roster to make room for new Pokemon and yet accept the notion of Pokemon Trainer and Lucario and even Zoroark (if he's ever added) leaving to make room for new Pokemon. So, basically only Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo are supposed to be untouchable? I don't think so, only Pikachu should be untouchable since he's the mascot of the whole franchise while everyone else are easily replaced by new flavors of the month in the Pokemon games.

I don't think the Pokemon Trainer will leave for anyone, I consider him a shoe-in, whether he keeps his current Pokemon or not (keeping them seems more likely). Pichu was flavor of the month. He was replaced by Lucario... who also happens to be flavor of the month. Zoroark will be flavor of the month next, so it's only appropriate that the latest flavor of the month character gets the boot to make room. Like I said before, it's nostalgic worth that is keeping Jigglypuff.

We could sit here and yap all day about how ness and jigglypuff should be cut, but the simple fact is THEY WONT BE.

Agreed.

@SpydrEnzo, I think five slots is the perfect amount for pokemon. Pokemon, Mario, and possibly Legend Of Zelda could use five slots without having to add random characters like daisy ect. Heres an example:

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Bowser Jr
Pikachu, Jigglypuff, PT, Mewtwo, Zoroark
Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Vaati, or..... tingle >.>

I like you, Shortie. We seem to have been agreeing on many things lately.

But anyway, I agree completely with all of that. I've suggested it many times in the past but for some reason people just must shoot down the thought of those series each getting five slots by saying something dumb like "they've never been equal until Brawl so they don't all have to have five!" Yes, that's true, but at the same time thats a pretty lame excuse for limiting a series from getting five. They all deserve it anyway!

I don't like discussing Legend of Zelda though, it's a controversial concept. Like Metroid, there just aren't anymore viable candidates that are also popular and recurring within the series. I always thought we could expect Toon Zelda as another throw-in character for the series. I mean, Sakurai obviously considered it for Brawl, if we don't get any more viable candidates, I could see it happening.

Although, it is rather unfortunate that the Zelda series has been demoted to more and more throw-in characters.

Now, Kirby most certainly does not deserve five slots. Four, maybe. Fox has enough characters that are important in their own rights to have four. The only series that doesnt dererve another slot is probably Earthbound. Even Yoshi and Wario can be discussed, that is if yoshi will get off his lazy *** and make another game already.

I don't think Kirby will be getting any more characters. Sar Fox is debatable, I've stated my position there. EarthBound definitely doesn't deserve another slot and won't be getting one. Yoshi probably won't either considering it's basically part of the Mario series and Wario's games lately have been more gameplay driven than character driven.

Lastly, Diddy Kong, if he was to get another one of his own games, do you think his symol would change from "DK" to a Star? I wouldnt mind seeing him branch off on his own and somewhere in the future Diddy have his own second rep. Somewhere FAR in the future.

Diddy Kong getting his own franchise would be pretty silly. Unless he branched off as much as Wario did. I really don't see why Yoshi got his own franchise, but whatever. Plus, that'd be a double branch off. Donkey Kong is already a branch off of Mario.

 

[Shorts]

I don't like discussing Legend of Zelda though, it's a controversial concept. Like Metroid, there just aren't anymore viable candidates that are also popular and recurring within the series. I always thought we could expect Toon Zelda as another throw-in character for the series. I mean, Sakurai obviously considered it for Brawl, if we don't get any more viable candidates, I could see it happening.

Although, it is rather unfortunate that the Zelda series has been demoted to more and more throw-in characters.

Well, define throw in characters. I think Vaati, Byrne, Tingle and possibly the new villain of Skyward sword are fine candidates. Sure they arent really continuosly popping up in the story lines, but they all have fans, and once a series reaches its limit of main characters i realize some would argue, "every other is just a bonus." Well, who doesnt like bonus's? Technically Mewtwo was a "bonus" character and most of us are bonkers over him. I can see Vaati or even Byrne being increeadibly interesting characters. I just am OCD with some things and i enjoy repeating numbers i guess. *chants five three times repeatedly*

I don't think Kirby will be getting any more characters

I hope not, but if a character stands out in epic yarn, then you never know. What I dont want to see is random rick or Waddle Doo.

Sar Fox is debatable, I've stated my position there.

Its weird, starfox hasnt made games in so long, yet most people are still debating over adding Krystal. If starfox makes another game, with Krystal in it, I say they deserve another spot. IMO, *looks around* I think in the StarFox plot, Krystal is more important/interesting than Falco.

Diddy Kong getting his own franchise would be pretty silly. Unless he branched off as much as Wario did. I really don't see why Yoshi got his own franchise, but whatever. Plus, that'd be a double branch off. Donkey Kong is already a branch off of Mario.

Fine, Ill give up Diddy. But the Yoshi Island/Story franchise could be revived tomorrow and have a huge following. I don't see why they would just cut off such a fun franchise. Sucks really.

As for Wario, I could see Captain Syrup being in smash. Hopefully another Wario Land comes out before its too late. However, its only been two years since Shake dimension. She was kinda important in that storyline.

*sighs* As for third parties, I think it's a tad too late for them to leave, I mean throwing out Snake could upset the frat boys, and throwing out Sonic could upset every eight year old in the counrty. In all serious though, why get rid of "bonus" characters?!

I have a plethera of hopefulls for smash's third party list. And Im sure 90% of you will hate it!
1. Bomberman. everyone knows how i feel there.
2. Cassandra (Soul Caliber) Just wishful thinking.
3. Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Hey, its a fantastic game series, WITH HIKARU UFREAKINGTADA! what else could I ask for!? coughLadyGagacough.

others are characters like Bubble bobble, Muramasa the demon blade, Morrigan, the world ends with you kid. All increadibly unlikely. Oh, and Geno

 

[sandslash]

I have a plethera of hopefulls for smash's third party list. And Im sure 90% of you will hate it!
1. Bomberman. everyone knows how i feel there.
2. Cassandra (Soul Caliber) Just wishful thinking.
3. Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Hey, its a fantastic game series, WITH HIKARU UFREAKINGTADA! what else could I ask for!? coughLadyGagacough.

others are characters like Bubble bobble, Muramasa the demon blade, Morrigan, the world ends with you kid. All increadibly unlikely. Oh, and Geno

I actually love the bomberman idea and as far as the clones go UberMario

The thing is alot of those guys moves are similar yes but the movement and weight is different making them different. Toon link and Link have similar moves but again not really. if you play them both they just feel very different.

 

[Shorts]

http://ssb4project.blogspot.com/
hey, its my smash blog.

Im tired of updating and only my ex boyfriend commenting/reading.

Check it out please!!!!

I think youll like it

 

[Heartstring]

toon link, not a clone, his b moves are similar but not the same and almost all of his a moves are different, the only one that is the same in every single way is his u-air.
falco has a LOT of foxes traits and the rest are very close such as falling speed and jump height. and he has more than one mvoe that is exactly the same as fox's in frame data and hitbox, his d-tilt, f-tilt and d-smash are the same

but yeah, i suppose those two are the closest thing to a clone in this game

 

[Arcadenik]

Uhh.. okay, so basically the Pokemon roster should always look like this in future Smash games?

1. Pikachu
2. Jigglypuff
3. Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle / Ivysaur / Charizard)
4. Mewtwo
5. the latest flavor of the month (Pichu, Lucario, Zoroark or nth gen movie Pokemon)

I don't like it. It limits how many Pokemon newcomers we get to only one while we keep getting the same old Pokemon. I'd like to play as Meowth and the other starters. I mean, Melee added two newcomers and then Brawl replaced those two newcomers with four newcomers within two slots. I'd like at least two brand new Pokemon to play with - read: I don't want only one new Pokemon (Zoroark) and an old Pokemon (Mewtwo).

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Really disappointing to see people mention slot theories and "the big three" or making a stink over clones. Thought you guys knew better than that.


Well, here's more Sakurai Blog:


Posts 61-70

61. Guy showing everyone he knows the trailer probably (it's really long and doesn't go anywhere)
62. Asks for Captain Olimar and Pikmin, nice size comparison:
Kirby = o Olimar = .
63. "I love it so much stupid Nintendo and Super Smash" (yeah more general excitement/life stories)
64. Talks about the lack of female characters, compares Samus to Zelda and Peach, suggests that Lip would be a great character
65. Wants some Animal Crossing music, not sure what song but it's not a K.K. Slider tune
66. Extra long post about Ike, mostly talking about fighting the Black Knight in PoR (but I don't think they're asking for him too)
67. Song requests for something from RSE (probably the boxart legendaries fight song), the WW Ganon fight song, and the Mother 3 love theme, also likes the Brawl theme a lot
68. Wonders if Pit will be too strong
69. Standard "thank you for making this happen" letter
70. Kid asks for Toad ("just in my class of 30, 25 voted for Toad! People just like Toad at my school"), but halfway through the post he starts mispelling Toad's JP name (Kinopio) as Pinocchio; Sakurai makes some silly nose joke


Posts 71-80

71. Excited to see Pit return, talks a lot about his love for the old Famicom Disk System and Nazo no Murasamejo, asks for Takamaru, Simon Belmont, and Lolo and Lala
72. It's a music request, but Google Translate is just saying Ali Baba (so maybe something with an Arabic theme like Doki Doki Panic? I have no idea)
73. Asks for Sukapon, makes some joke about fighting in the year 2102
74. This is pretty interesting, the writer is from Mexico, I figured all of the letters were from either Japan or East Asia; lots of life story stuff, ends it by asking for Mega Man and Shy Guys
75. Talks a lot about auto-handicaps, think they're asking not to have the online force handicaps on players
76. "Yesterday was my birthday and I was in severe pain from surgery, well not anymore after seeing this!"
77. Asks for Ayumi Tachibana (from Famicom Detective Club) and Professor Kawashima, that makes two people who wanted the Brain Age floating head guy, "no, this isn't a joke"
78. Glad to see the game is being made, ends by asking for a stage from the Pikmin planet
79. This guy gets down to the point and I salute him for that; asks for Princess Katia (from Lost Kingdoms), Ray (from Custom Robo), and King Dedede
80. Talks about playing Melee with friends and how they felt the gameplay was too fast; Sakurai responds saying he's planning on toning down Brawl's speed and emphasizing aerial combat, "by the way, did you know there's a slo-mo mode in Melee?"

SamuraiPanda linkage

Kinda curious if the guy from Mexico posts here on SmashBoards (or if anyone knows him; dude's name is Christian apparently), would be cool to see what he has to say.

--------------------------------

Got a question for everyone: which is more important in your mind, popularity/recognition or relevance to their series? I only ask because Mewtwo has more of the former, Roy the latter, and a lot of you seem to think that Mewtwo has a greater chance of returning.


edit for Arc: I would say Pikachu, PT (Red, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard), Jiggs, Mewtwo, Lucario, and whoever else they feel like adding from now on. Also alt models for Pichu and a female trainer (same Pokemon though).

Needless to say, I don't feel restraining Pokemon's line-up is something Sakurai intends.

 

[Heartstring]

i think its sorta a bit of both the popularity within the series, for example, no-one is going to remove sheik regardless of the fact that she hasnt been in a game for a while, just because she's too popular

 

[Arcadenik]

Ahh... so its supposed to be like this...

SSB4
1. Pikachu
2. Pokemon Trainer (1st gen starters)
3. Lucario
4. Jigglypuff
5. Mewtwo
6. Zoroark

SSB5
1-6. Same Pokemon from SSB4
7. 6th gen Pokemon

SSB6
1-7. Same Pokemon from SSB5
8. 7th or 8th gen Pokemon

SSB7
1-8. Same Pokemon from SSB6
9. 9th or 10th gen Pokemon

And so on because removing/replacing characters aren't just frowned upon, it is just not allowed. And why? Because they have fans who would be sad if they didn't show up.

No kidding! Everyone has fans. But hello?! The replacements will get fans before and after they are added in Smash anyway. Even the Duck Hunt Dog and Tingle will get new fans if they were ever added in Smash and the fans will want them to come back in future Smash games. Maybe this is why people don't want these two to be added in Smash in the first place... because they seem to think that once a character is added in Smash, that character has to be in all future Smash games from now on.

 

[Rychu]

I just hope PT gets new pokemon(preferrably with Blaziken)

 

[Rychu]

I just hope PT gets new pokemon(preferrably with Blaziken)

 

[ElPanandero]

toon link, not a clone, his b moves are similar but not the same and almost all of his a moves are different, the only one that is the same in every single way is his u-air.
falco has a LOT of foxes traits and the rest are very close such as falling speed and jump height. and he has more than one mvoe that is exactly the same as fox's in frame data and hitbox, his d-tilt, f-tilt and d-smash are the same

but yeah, i suppose those two are the closest thing to a clone in this game

Thank you. The term clone has come to mean similar looking. I don't believe there are any clones (And if there were, who cares, clones rule!). Toon Link has very different attributes than Link. Falco has different animations and slightly different stats. Either way, neither of them play anything like they're counter part. People need to get over similiar characters, because if they weren't in, chances are they'd complain about the 1 super-unique character that takes their place >.>

 

[Arcadenik]

Uh! It's funny you said that. Most of the Forbidden Seven are clones (read: "most" so the only exceptions are Dixie Kong and Mewtwo). Who took their places? Sonic. People complain about Sonic for one of two reasons: 1) he's not Nintendo or 2) all he does is spin into a ball.

 

[Shorts]

My Poll is up to 147 votes, so i thought i would update the fan voted roster.

Mario Series:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.

Legend Of Zelda:
Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Midna and Wolf Link

Yoshi:
Yoshi

Wario:
Wario

Pokemon:
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer Red
Mewtwo Third Most Voted for character
Lucario
*Zoroark is actually in fifth on the Pkmn poll*

Earthbound:
Ness
Lucas

Fire Emblem:
Marth
Ike
Roy

Kirby:
Kirby
MetaKnight
King Dedede

DK:
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool

StarFox:
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal Second most voted for character.

Retro:
Ice Climbers
Mr. Game and Watch
R.O.B
Pit
Little Mac
Balloon Fighter

Smaller Franchises:
Olimar
Issac (Golden Sun) #1 most voted for character
Animal Crossing Character
Custom Robo Character
Saki (Sin and Punishment)

F- Zero:
Captain Falcon
*Both Black Shadow and Gorah are like three votes from beating the no reps votes*

Metroid:
Samus/ZSS
Ridley
Dark Samus

Third Parties:
Sonic Returns (Voted on)
Snake Returns (Voted on)
Megaman
Bomberman

Bam. Just remember, the selection is a little outdated due to it being made pre E3.

 

[Big-Cat]

Got a question for everyone: which is more important in your mind, popularity/recognition or relevance to their series? I only ask because Mewtwo has more of the former, Roy the latter, and a lot of you seem to think that Mewtwo has a greater chance of returning.

Popularity is more important to me, especially within the fanbase. I don't want to see Jeff in even though someone like Flint may be more requested amongst the Earthbound fanbase.

Roy is a unique case as he debuted in Super Smash Bros. (not Marth lol) so he has legitimate popularity both in the SSB and Fire Emblem fanbases.

Relevance and popularity, though, can overlap easily, but you also have your dark-horse characters.

 

[Arcadenik]

People still want Balloon Fighter even though Sakurai pretty much turned him down? I'm starting to think that people want Balloon Fighter because he has the word "fighter" in his name. Kinda like why some people wanted Fighting-type Pokemon in Smash. That or they still believe that Balloon Fighter was in beta Melee. I mean, really? Almost no one cared about the original Balloon Fight game during the NES/SNES/N64 days and then BAM! goes the rumors of Balloon Fighter being in beta Melee and suddenly he's the most wanted retro character? You gotta be kidding me.

 

[Shorts]

People still want Balloon Fighter even though Sakurai pretty much turned him down? I'm starting to think that people want Balloon Fighter because he has the word "fighter" in his name. Kinda like why some people wanted Fighting-type Pokemon in Smash. That or they still believe that Balloon Fighter was in beta Melee. I mean, really? Almost no one cared about the original Balloon Fight game during the NES/SNES/N64 days and then BAM! goes the rumors of Balloon Fighter being in beta Melee and suddenly he's the most wanted retro character? You gotta be kidding me.

Actually, he is the forth most wanted retro character, i wasnt sure if people wanted pit/R.O.B to come back so i let them vote on it. Still, Ballon fighter got like forty votes.

 

[majora_787]

On the pokemon thing, cutting can be done, but I think since Smash Bros. is made to be fanservice, complete and total cutting should be avoided if possible. Now, I can see Melee's cuts for the most part. Three of the clones that were cut could just be made into alternate costumes or something, and two are partially programmed into Brawl.

=\ Cuts are okay, but I really think they should be avoided if possible for that simple reason.

And on Star Fox, I'd rather see Leon than Krystal, but 1. Even Krystal is more important than Leon, and 2. Star Fox is kinda dead at the moment.

On Balloon Fighter, I know plenty of people who would *like* him. But really, I don't see much potential in him myself. =\

On Roy, that could be why he was partially programmed to return. He was put in to advertise the Japanese-only release, the Sword of Seals I think it's called, or the Binding Blade... whichever... before it even came out. So yeah, he DID technically debut in Melee if I remember right. =P