[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Shorts]

Oh no! No one commented on my character list

I found it to be be my most interesting yet!

 

[BBQTV]

Oh no! No one commented on my character list

I found it to be be my most interesting yet!

you lost all credibility when you put balloon fighter

 

[Big-Cat]

do you use the strong kuma?

The proper translation, in this context, is The Strong One, but yes.

 

[BBQTV]

The proper translation, in this context, is The Strong One, but yes.

ah good sheee he's da bess

Spoiler

even though he's low tier

 

[Pieman0920]

*comes back from nice long vacation*

*sees we're all at the same place we always are*

Oh SSB4 thread, never change~<3

 

[BBQTV]

oh you















wait a minute, pieman likes naruto?

Spoiler

good times

 

[sandslash]

i was thinking for costumes maybe you get the four but say after beating all different modes with a character you get something special. ex is with pika you still get his headband and other clothing costumes but once you beat every mode with him you get a (lets just say purple pika) and his speed is enhanced a little. Or Mario unlocks a Mario costume with a different down b move or something of that nature. Each character gets something a little different. Its almost a revamped version of the character and these would be for the extream gamers. It would take tons of time and hard work to unlock even one of these guys. I also hope that they fix online play get rid of all that **** lag. Anyway this is an idea what do you guys think?

 

[DekuBoy]

you lost all credibility when you put balloon fighter

Balloon Fighter almost got into melee. Truth be told the only thing on his roster that bothered me was Black Knight just cause he over-reps Fire Emblem.

 

[Rayquaza07]

i would want to see king k rool and mewtwo nex game but as long as they keep mk and snake im happy

 

[Pieman0920]

Balloon Fighter was never close to getting in to Melee. Sakurai just considered him at one point, but then thought that he wouldn't be all that great of a fighter so he decided not to pick him as the game's retro character. If he was close to getting in, he would have gotten some programming work done, or at least have been cut for reasons that didn't cut him off at the most basic part of the character creation process.

 

[majora_787]

Wasn't it between Balloon Fighter, Ice Climbers, and Mach something-or-other?

I remember it said the bike character was decided against because "ramps would be needed everywhere". After ROB getting in, that became a 100% ridiculous excuse, but I don't make the game.

Then Balloon Fighter, I dunno what it was, but I can guess why he didn't get in.

 

[UberMario]

Mach Rider? And they could have just made his motorcycle do a pop-a-wheelie-looking jump. I remember reading that Balloon Fighter was the Melee character that got the furthest on the drawing board without actually being developed for the system, not sure if that's a rumor or not.

 

[Pieman0920]

I don't think ROB getting in means that an Excitebiker (Or Mach Rider) could potentially get in, but rather Wario, wouldn't you say? He proves that it can be done a lot more.

Also I very much doubt that the Balloon Fighter made it in very far given how the excuse for him was that Sakurai couldn't imagine how he would fight.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Wasn't it between Balloon Fighter, Ice Climbers, and Mach something-or-other?

I remember it said the bike character was decided against because "ramps would be needed everywhere". After ROB getting in, that became a 100% ridiculous excuse, but I don't make the game.

Then Balloon Fighter, I dunno what it was, but I can guess why he didn't get in.

It was betwwen Ice Climbers, Bubbles (from Clu Clu Land), Urban Champion, Excite Biker, and Balloon Fighter. Here are Sakurai's excuses for each one:

BUBBLES ~ she doesn't really know how to fight.
URBAN CHAMPION ~ wouldn't be able to do much
EXCITE BIKER ~ ramps would have to be installed all over the stage for him to work.
BALLOON FIGHTER ~ couldn't do anything if his balloon's were popped.

Some of these excuses are pretty lame, but some make sense. For example, the Urban Champion really couldn't do much. In his game, all he does is punch. The Excite Biker relies on ramps to work in his games as well. For the Excite Biker, despite the ramp thing, being stuck to his bike wouldn't really help much either.

However, not knowing how to fight is a lame excuse. Did Peach know how to fight when she was added? I could probably name some other characters. As for the Balloon Fighter, making his game rely on his ballons being inflated would be rather interesting, he would be an interesting character regardless of Sakurai's lame excuse. I ahve a pretty neat moveset for him, if anyone is interested in seeing it.

Also, Shortie, I'll get to your roster in a bit. I have some comments on it myself.

 

[Shorts]

Also, Shortie, I'll get to your roster in a bit. I have some comments on it myself.

Cant wait

@BBQTV, lamest excuse ever.

As for Black Knight. I know I sorta overrepped. But wasnt mother overrepped. No one really cared. So long as they dont have more characters than Mario, Pokemon and Loz. Besides, its not like i added a totally random/useless/small part character

i didnt add slippy. Its the black knight!

 

[DekuBoy]

Show me please Spydr Enzo.

 

[majora_787]

Wario's bike DOES sort of need ramps. That SUPPORTS Sakurai. But mach rider requires a bike as his model, giving him generally ROB-like movement. I see it as a pretty lame excuse, because it's like he's saying there is no way Mach Rider could jump.

And yeah, not knowing how to fight is a lame excuse. Almost as lame as his, "he'd be pretty slow" excuse. THAT was pretty lame.

 

[LostAddict]

General poll question time!:

What chance do you think any Advance Wars characters will get into the next SSB? I've been recently replaying the first one and realized how much I would love it if a character got in. Like pretty much every character it really depends on the status of the franchise and the character's status within the franchise, but I'd wager that unless a new game comes out, or is planned to come out around the time of SSB4, they're pretty slim. I'm assuming Andy would be the top candidate, but considering the direction of the latest Advance Wars, I'm wondering if they'd go for a newer representative.

Thoughts?

As for why we primarily discuss characters:

Personally, for me, by and far the most important of Smash are the characters. I mean the reason why I love it so much is that in ways it's a love letter to Nintendo, and I love Nintendo and I love a lot of its characters. Without the characters, the game would have nowhere near the same appeal. I mean I love the gameplay mechanics and stuff, but the novelty of fighting with Nintendo's greatest mascots will never wear off.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Well, since everyone is making a roster, i guess ill make my personal wish roster!

[Shortie's character roster]

Mario, Pokemon, Yoshi, Kirby, and MOTHER are PERFECT. I'll only comment on a few others to avoid really heated debates right now.

Legend of Zelda is okay, although Vaati doesn't have the greatest chance anymore. If she appears in another games sometime soon, then I would say he is pretty likely. Until then, I'm going to assume that Legend of Zelda will stick with throw-in characters like Toon Zelda, considering the series is low on viable candidates that also are recurring within the series.

Wario... I'm not sure if Captain Syrup is very likely anymore, she seems more ike assist trophy material. The latest Wario Land game sold the worst out of the series (besides Wario Land II) and that is also after returning from quite a hiatus. Plus, the Wario in Brawl seems more centered around the WarioWare series, which is Wario's current moneymaker.

Lastly, Metroid would be okay with just Samus/ZSS and Ridley. It doesn't seem like Dark Samus will be appearing again anytime soon, and it was exclusive to the Metroid Prime sub-series anyway. At least its on the disposable list, along with Black Knight who creates a bit too many reps for Fire Emblem.

I think Ballon Fighter is a GREAT choice by the way. But why would he be a throw-in character, he has plenty of potential.

Show me please Spydr Enzo.

Alright, but keep in mind that a few of the moves have some extensive explaining. I'll try to make it as easy on the eyes as possible, but we all know how difficult that is for me... This is just for special moves by the way. Standard moves would be kicking, punching, swatting, and other standard fighting techniques. But here it is.


BALLOON FIGHTER MOVESET

< STANDARD SPECIAL MOVE: ~ Flipper >
-The Balloon Fighter pulls out the flipper seen in the game. This item was also replaced the bumper in Melee. When near an opponent, the Fighter pulls it out and twirls it causes minimal damage but scores a few consecutive hits. It can also deflect projectiles. Don't worry, this isn't as annoying as Pit's Side B.

< SIDE SPECIAL MOVE: ~ Sky Dive >
-Balloon Fighter's only move that he actually uses in his game. When standing still, he will leap into the air and swiftly swoop in a downward, diagonal direction (the direction he is facing) knocking back opponents he lands on. Before he touches the ground he will swoop back upward a bit, then fall and land. This is comparable to Yoshi's or Bowser's Down B move, but not quite as strong and the other differences I mentioned.

-When used in the air, however, he will move in the same diagonal downward direction, but he won't continue all the way to the ground. After a swift dive, he will swoop back upward, to about half the height he descended. This move, when used both in the air and on the ground, will score consecutive hits on the opponent during the descent. However, if the Fighter connects at the peak of the descent while in mid-air, the move works like a meteor Smash.

< UP SPECIAL MOVE: ~ Parachute >
-Parachutes were used by enemy fighters in the games after their balloons have been popped. The Balloon Fighter's multiple jumps makes horizontal recovery easy. But he has trouble recovering horizontally. In the case where you will need to, the parachute can help. When the Fighter pulls it out, he will receive a small boost of vertical recovery, but then will start to slowly descend. He can now safely move back onto the stage too. Characters above him when the parachute is opened also take a bit of damage.

-There are two downfalls of this move. One is that as you move horizontally, the rate at which you descend increases, so make sure you're high enough above the edge of the stage. The next downfall is that it deflates both balloons (the importance of the balloons will be explained next move).

< DOWN SPECIAL MOVE: ~ Balloon Pump >
-By far, the Balloon Fighter's most important move. Enemy balloon fighter's are seen pumping their balloons at the start of the game. The Balloon fighter starts out each match with no balloons. By pressing down B, he will pull out a pump and pump it once, making a small balloon appear on his back. By pressing down B several more times, he can fully pump one balloon. Two full balloons can be pumped.

-It takes four pumps to fill a single balloon. Each pump takes about half a second. 50% damage will cause the balloon to deflate halfway. After accumulating 100% of damage, one balloon will pop. But what do balloons do? They help recovery. Each full balloon will add two extra jumps. Each half balloon will add one extra jump. So basically, the Balloon Fighter begins the match with jumping abilities of a regular fighter, but once all of his balloons are pumped, he will have jumping capabilities similar to Kirby (although his weight is more similar to Pit's).




How is it? Most of his moves are used by enemy fighters of the game, I know, but there is nothing wrong with that. Fox never never used any of his moves at the time he was added, and Captain Falcon STILL uses moves that aren't even seen in his games.

The Balloon Fighter would work very well as a fighter, as I have proven. You can still fight without the balloon's, but they definitely make things tougher for the opponents and easier for the player! I feel Sakurai's excuse for Balloon Fighter and Bubbles is pretty lame.

Wario's bike DOES sort of need ramps. That SUPPORTS Sakurai. But mach rider requires a bike as his model, giving him generally ROB-like movement. I see it as a pretty lame excuse, because it's like he's saying there is no way Mach Rider could jump.

And yeah, not knowing how to fight is a lame excuse. Almost as lame as his, "he'd be pretty slow" excuse. THAT was pretty lame.

It's actually Excite Biker that he considered, not Mach Rider. But enough of my OCD. But anyway I think it's a legitimate excuse. What is different between him and R.O.B. is that R.O.B. has actual weapons and he can use his arms and robo burner to attack in a variety of ways.

The Excite Biker doesn't have much outside of his arms and legs. He can't really attack with his Bike either, because then every time a character touched it, they would take damage. What else does he have?

YES, Captain Falcon doesn't use the Blue Falcon like in his games, but really, you can't take the bike away from the Excite BIKER.

 

[BBQTV]

@BBQTV, lamest excuse ever.

it's the truth son

BUBBLES~ she doesn't really know how to fight.
URBAN CHAMPION~ wouldn't be able to do much
EXCITE BIKER~ ramps would have to be installed all over the stage for him to work.
BALLOON FIGHTER~ couldn't do anything if his balloon's were popped.

get rapped

 

[Shorts]

it's the truth son

BUBBLES~ she doesn't really know how to fight.
URBAN CHAMPION~ wouldn't be able to do much
EXCITE BIKER~ ramps would have to be installed all over the stage for him to work.
BALLOON FIGHTER~ couldn't do anything if his balloon's were popped.

get rapped

No. Characters deserve more than an exuse. They deserve a well thought out reason for not being considered.
ALL of them can easily be fixed.

Bubbles: Yeah because the IC, Zelda, Peach, and R.O.B. are straight up thug. Lame excuse.
Urban Champion: You can make a moveset for anything. Another terrible exuse
Excite Biker: He, is the most understandable. Though, you could make it work.
Balloon Fighter: Just, a terrible excuse. Seriously. I think he was sorta put on the spot.

Im not saying Sakurai sees my point of view. But I am saying some designer put their time and effort into these characters, they deserve an explanation that isnt seven words.

 

[Illusive]

I think mario should lose both FLUDD and the cape and have it replaced with a star spin move that spins opponents, reflects projectiles and gives a slight boost in the air. Meanwhile, the cape should become its own item.

New Item: Cape

Appears as a feather on the battlefield. If collected, the character gains a cape. If the character already has one, it becomes larger and more awesome. It enables every character to glide (if they can already glide, they glide even better with the cape). It also reflects projectiles if the character turns around as it's hitting.

 

[Heartstring]

I think mario should lose both FLUDD and the cape and have it replaced with a star spin move that spins opponents, reflects projectiles and gives a slight boost in the air. Meanwhile, the cape should become its own item.

New Item: Cape

Appears as a feather on the battlefield. If collected, the character gains a cape. If the character already has one, it becomes larger and more awesome. It enables every character to glide (if they can already glide, they glide even better with the cape). It also reflects projectiles if the character turns around as it's hitting.

not a bad idea, however dash dancing would mean instant win if they had the cape XD

 

[oceanic--ice]

I don't know if this has been posted and heck, there's no way I am going through 33799 posts to fi Ind out but I really think Luigi should get poltergeist moveset. Just giving Mario fludd doesn't make Luigi an original character. He is still a copy. That's not fair since he has so much potential. I can think of a moveset right on the spot.

B Use of a random medal (Fire/Ice/Water). Hold B to Release concetrated shot. Runs out and recharges.
B> Suck opponents and turn them into portraits (Pickable items)
B^ Reverse Gravity - Luigi "falls" a shory distance upwards.
Bv Luigi gets scared. He curles into a "ball?" and attacks pass right through him.

Final Smash - Game Boy Horror. Numerous boos, boo-bombs and boo-balls spam the screen.

Thought in 2 minutes - 37 seconds.

Honestly, they should put much more effort in some move-sets.

 

[DekuBoy]

Really cool moveset Spydr. Balloon Fighter is my favourite retro Nintendo character.

 

[Big-Cat]

After looking at that Luigi moveset and playing some more BlazBlue, I'm starting to think of the idea of a third button Pieman brought up a while back.

I could easily see the third button being used by Luigi with the Poltergust. I'm just curious as to how this could work with other characters. I think a good amount would have to be made up.

 

[Heartstring]

we'd have to see what teh remote would look like for the next console, i personally think that they could just make smash B -moves and tilt-b moves

 

[Big-Cat]

That could work too. Maybe some could be stronger versions of the tilt special while others are different attacks, kind of like Samus' missles. For the neutral special, you have to hold down the special button. We already have some attacks that do this so maybe it could work.

 

[lutteurdepkmn]

i think one pkmn trainer but with choices of all of the starters from every generation picking 3 or something along those lines i just really enjoy the pokemon characters XD

 

[BBQTV]

No. Characters deserve more than an exuse. They deserve a well thought out reason for not being considered.
ALL of them can easily be fixed.

Bubbles: Yeah because the IC, Zelda, Peach, and R.O.B. are straight up thug. Lame excuse.
Urban Champion: You can make a moveset for anything. Another terrible exuse
Excite Biker: He, is the most understandable. Though, you could make it work.
Balloon Fighter: Just, a terrible excuse. Seriously. I think he was sorta put on the spot.

Im not saying Sakurai sees my point of view. But I am saying some designer put their time and effort into these characters, they deserve an explanation that isnt seven words.

those words came out of sakurai's mouth himself and he ain't changing his mind not now or later

 

[Shorts]

those words came out of sakurai's mouth himself and he ain't changing his mind not now or later

Nevermind, I dont think youre understanding the point im trying to make. I realize Sakurai said this. Im saying, its a lame excuse and we can still talk about them. Views can change over nine years.

 

[majora_787]

I still hate his "he'd be slow" excuse the most of all. But I guess that wasn't an excuse that was saying Ridley could never be in. If I remember right, the context was...

"I'm sure if we really worked on it we could make him work, but he'd be pretty slow. Would that be okay?"

So yeah... Anyone could be given a moveset, and Zelda/ROB/Ice Climbers/Peach really don't know how to fight much. Also, Excite Biker COULD be made to work. Sure he would have to attack with his bike. His attacks could all be tricks. Not hugely complicated, and a level CERTAINLY doesn't have to be all ramps for him.

And yeah, characters are pretty important. I wouldn't say they're more important than gameplay too much, but SSB has its appeal MOSTLY from the fanservice it has provided for the last... What... 11 years?

Makes me wish they would just make Ridley work like they said they could, they seem to underestimate the pull of that fanservice toward Metroid fans. Bleh.

And I think veteran characters keep mostly similar movesets for a reason. Let's say we gave Mario a totally new moveset based around the Luma and galaxy stuff, it seems to me like he'd be a totally different Mario. I think what they try to do is keep the veterans the same, only give them a new flavor, then slip the newcomers in to be the awesome new movesets.

 

[BBQTV]

Nevermind, I dont think youre understanding the point im trying to make. I realize Sakurai said this. Im saying, its a lame excuse and we can still talk about them. Views can change over nine years.

but he's not changing his mind, just like he's not changing his mind about animal crosser and balloon fighter is not that appealing. your hoping on sakurai to change hias view? i wouldn't hold my breath

 

[Shorts]

but he's not changing his mind, just like he's not changing his mind about animal crosser and balloon fighter is not that appealing. your hoping on sakurai to change hias view? i wouldn't hold my breath

Personally I have no biased to balloon fighter. I neither like, nor dislike the possabilty. Im not holding my breath, but it isnt out of the question. Definitely not.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Really cool moveset Spydr. Balloon Fighter is my favourite retro Nintendo character.

Thank you!

 

[Shorts]

Heres my roster's "Character Select" Screen. I think it puts the characters into perspective to see them all mingled onto one page. So tell me if this helped ease any concerns about the roster.

http://simonisthebeast.deviantart.com/art/Super-Smash-Bros-4-174714737

 

[BBQTV]

but it isnt out of the question. Definitely not.

 

[Shorts]

? These pictures hold no value to me.

Who are they?

 

[BBQTV]

it's not who they are it's there expressions and i copy pasta those expressions with that roster

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I don't know where I stand in this particular debate though... I mean, we DO have evidence of Sakurai speaking against these certain characters (Balloon Fighter, Bubbles, Urban Champion, Excitebiker, Animal Crosser, and Ridley). But at the same time, some of the things said against these characters just don't make much sense. However, some excuses are legitimate I feel, like in the case of Urban Champion and Excitebiker.

But how willing is Sakurai to go against his own words? I mean think about it; Ridley is among the mst requested fighters and is extremely popular. Despite this, his size (which Sakurai pointed out) has prevented him from getting in the series. Zero Suit Samus even took a playable spot before him. If a character with popularity as immense as Ridley's can't get in because Sakurai doesn't think they will work, I don't know what we can expect for the other less popular candidates.

The way I see it, you can separate these six characters into different categories based on how likely Sakurai would be willing to go back on his excuse for not including them.

LIKELY
-Balloon Fighter
-Bubbles

POSSIBLE
-Ridley
-Animal Crosser

UNLIKELY
-Urban Champion
-Excitebiker


LIKELY

Both of the charcaters in the "likely" category received pretty lame excuses that I feel Sakurai has a good chance of going back on, especially since several years have passed since these views. Bubbles doesn't know how to fight? Balloon Fighter wouldn't be able to do much without his balloons? first of all, did Peach ever actually fight or know how to fight before she was added in? How does Fox fight without his arwing? How does Captain Falcon fight without the Blue Falcon? They both have arms and legs, just like the Balloon Fighter does. The Balloon Fighter also has several unique items and features in hi game that could make for a unique moveset, like I previously proved. It is pretty likely that Sakurai forgets about these excuses, because they obviously have no support whatsoever.


POSSIBLE

Sakurai's excuse for Animal Crosser makes sense. The character is usually calm and the games are centered around relaxation and serene themes. That isn't Smash of course... but I could see the Animal Crosser working nonetheless. Still, This seems like one of the excuses Sakurai won't go back on. The reason Ridley is up there is because, despite his popularity, he still hasn't made it in and was even beaten out by Zero Suit Samus. This shows how reluctant Sakurai is to making Ridley playable, and it is hard to tell if this reluctance will continue.


UNLIKELY

These characters actually have legitimate excuses for not including them. I've explained the Excitebiker. All he has is his bike. He could stick out his arms and legs, but that's it. If the bike was used for attacks, then everytime it touched a character the character would get injured, which is unfair. The ramps in the games are pretty much what the entire gameplay revolves around too, it's how the character works. And no, he can't fight without his bike. Sure Captain Falcon doesn't use his Blue Falcon, but you can't take the bike away from the ExciteBIKER. The Urban Champion has a good excuse too; he can't do much. What else would he do besides punch? Or kick? He is also similar to Little Mac, who has a pretty good chance of making it in himself.


There's my bit. There is one more character that Sakurai shot down though... and that is Sukapon. Sukapon is a somewhat popular character, but Sakurai has said not to expect seeing Sukapon in the future. He doesn't think the character has good fighting structure and he will not include him. That is the only character that he has actually said "This character will not be in the series in the future" to. He hasn't said that yet to any of the other characters. Just pointing that out.