[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[SwedishChef]

I was thinkin for 2nd gen would be maybe Tyranitar? Not many big powerful Pokemon on the roster.

Meowth, sorry I'ma hafta say I don't like him. But we don't need a HG/SS rep if they get a good enough stage I think. Mewtwo is a must for me. Deoxys seems like it would be cool. But I'm not sure if it should use all forms or just attack...So... Pikachu Jiggs PT Lucario Mewtwo Deoxys...or Tyranitar for me. Do you think Pokemon is deserving of 6?

If Mario gets 6, sure.

And Tyranitar, meh. Not a big fan, but that's just cuz I don't like the Pokemon haha.

 

[Shorts]

I was always a fan of that myself. 3rd gen needs rep and Deoxys is the perfect candidate.

if it came down to only 3 generations being represented, the third wouldnt be repped. personally i think 3rd gen is underused in ssbb.

anyways, the 3rd gen rep would either be deoxys, plus/min or gardevour (sp?)

 

[SwedishChef]

if it came down to only 3 generations being represented, the third wouldnt be repped. personally i think 3rd gen is underused in ssbb.

anyways, the 3rd gen rep would either be deoxys, plus/min or gardevour (sp?)

It's Gardevoir iirc. And I think we have enough electric rodents, so P/M is blah.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

if it came down to only 3 generations being represented, the third wouldnt be repped. personally i think 3rd gen is underused in ssbb.

anyways, the 3rd gen rep would either be deoxys, plus/min or gardevour (sp?)

Well with Lucario it would be 1st 3rd and 4th which I think is fine. Deoxys would be perfect like I said in my edit. Gardevoir would be cool too. But not my first choice.

I don't like Tyranitar much either but seems like a good choice. And yeah I don't like Plusle/Minun too much. Maybe a Pokeball like Latios/Latias

 

[DekuBoy]

A third-gen trainer with Deoxys, Gardevoir and another PKMN, would be cool. Maybe... too cool?

 

[Paper Mario Master]

If we gat another PT (I useta want but don't really anymore) it would have Blaziken at least. Maybe Marshtomp and Treecko. But like I said I don't want another PT

 

[Shorts]

I was thinkin for 2nd gen would be maybe Tyranitar? Not many big powerful Pokemon on the roster.

Meowth, sorry I'ma hafta say I don't like him. But we don't need a HG/SS rep if they get a good enough stage I think. Mewtwo is a must for me. Deoxys seems like it would be cool. But I'm not sure if it should use all forms or just attack...So... Pikachu Jiggs PT Lucario Mewtwo Deoxys...or Tyranitar for me. Do you think Pokemon is deserving of 6?

Edit: @ Chef, Yeah he seems like the perfect 3rd gen. And would make for an epic match for Mewtwo. And I'd also look forward to a Mewtwo-Lucario match along with others against Mewtwo.

well heres the thing, sakurai had like 7 other characters planned for brawl. sooo, if the next game has as big of a character number jump as brawl was planned on having then yes. but if there gonna keep doing there add twelve thing then i would expect only four or five pkmn.

and two would be pika and jiggs. so lets just hope ssb4 has like 45-50 characters!

 

[Paper Mario Master]

well heres the thing, sakurai had like 7 other characters planned for brawl. sooo, if the next game has as big of a character number jump as brawl was planned on having then yes. but if there gonna keep doing there add twelve thing then i would expect only four or five pkmn.

and two would be pika and jiggs. so lets just hope ssb4 has like 45-50 characters!

I'd be fine with that. LoZ Mario and Pokemon get 6. The 2 for each would be (IMO):
Mario: Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. LoZ: Vaati and Toon Zelda (maybe?) PKMN: Mewtwo and Deoxys. It'd work then we could bump up others if we want to. Like SF and DK and those other guys.

 

[Shorts]

I'd be fine with that. LoZ Mario and Pokemon get 6. The 2 for each would be (IMO):
Mario: Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. LoZ: Vaati and Toon Zelda (maybe?) PKMN: Mewtwo and Deoxys. It'd work then we could bump up others if we want to. Like SF and DK and those other guys.

yeah sf deserves 4, dk should have three, no more than four. yoshi can really only have one.

but how many 3rd parties? and should snake come back??

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Star fox is complete as it is. Dk needs Dixie and K. rool.

Megaman should be the only third party added. Snake should come back.

Vaati should not be Zelda's new character.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

yeah sf deserves 4, dk should have three, no more than four. yoshi can really only have one.

but how many 3rd parties? and should snake come back??

And don't forget Metroid.

Mega Man for sure. Snake maybe. Sonic definetly. Others umm maybe gonna happen.

But wait. How would Deoxys work? Just Attack? or All 4?

Edit: Shino, Krystal's comin either way. And I'm fine with it. And does DK need Dixie?
And why no Vaati?

 

[Shorts]

And don't forget Metroid.

Mega Man for sure. Snake maybe. Sonic definetly. Others umm maybe gonna happen.

But wait. How would Deoxys work? Just Attack? or All 4?

Edit: Shino, Krystal's comin either way. And I'm fine with it. And does DK need Dixie?
And why no Vaati?

i wouldnt mind if he like morphs quickly to defense mode when he blocks. stuff like that. but either way works. if he gets in he will probably be just basic form or attack.

what do you think his role would be in "story mode"

 

[Shorts]

Star fox is complete as it is. Dk needs Dixie and K. rool.

Megaman should be the only third party added. Snake should come back.

Vaati should not be Zelda's new character.

i think a fourth 3rd party would be fine, no more tho.

dixie should tag team w/ diddy. and k rool is a perfect addition. i didnt expect him in brawl but i do expect him in ssb4.

as for vaati, who else would rep for loz? hes the second biggest antagonist of the series? maybe toon zelda from spirit tracks?

 

[Paper Mario Master]

i wouldnt mind if he like morphs quickly to defense mode when he blocks. stuff like that. but either way works. if he gets in he will probably be just basic form or attack.

what do you think his role would be in "story mode"

Good point. And I like that idea. like when you shield you get his Defense mode body and arms blocking. I don't like his normal form much. And a reason it should be Attack is that's what is Pokeball and Trophy were.

Story.... hmm... Kinda like Meta Knight I think. Villianish but good in cause I think. But after Mewtwo leaves Ganon, you play through a level or two as Deoxys and then you run into Mewtwo and have a battle like MK and Lucario in a way. You see a bit of cutscene for the begining of there fight where they discover eachother (somehow don't wanna go into that) kinda like Marth and MK when they find eachother.

Edit: If LoZ gets 6 it should be both. And I agree with the rest of what you said, Shortie. As for another (4th) 3rd party, either Chocobo (or like someone said, can't remember, Black Mage riding Chocobo) or Bomberman

 

[Big-Cat]

I want to hurt myself more and more everytime I see reps being used as an argument. This is not a Nintendo Congress and it never will be. What matters is if a series is complete or not, but this is debateable in a lot of cases.

If Zelda gets a new character, IF, it will probably be one of the following: Midna, Toon Zelda/Tetra, or some character from Zelda Wii provided that said character is popular.

For Mario, the most likely, IMO, are Bowser Jr. and Toad, but nothing says they have to be added each (quotas). If there's concern for Peach's B, either give her a new attack or replace Toad with Toadsworth.

Pokemon is an iffy one. At the very least, I see Mewtwo returning along with Roy. Mewtwo was the only non-clone to be cut due to time constraints. Roy, likewise was cut for the same reasons and like Falco, became popular in his own right. The way Pokemon "representation" seems to work is that it's most prominent in the Pokeballs. All the playable ones are popular in their own right.

Starfox should get Krystal and stop there. I know you don't care for her, Shino, but she is a highly requested character.

 

[Shorts]

Good point. And I like that idea. like when you shield you get his Defense mode body and arms blocking. I don't like his normal form much. And a reason it should be Attack is that's what is Pokeball and Trophy were.

Story.... hmm... Kinda like Meta Knight I think. Villianish but good in cause I think. But after Mewtwo leaves Ganon, you play through a level or two as Deoxys and then you run into Mewtwo and have a battle like MK and Lucario in a way. You see a bit of cutscene for the begining of there fight where they discover eachother (somehow don't wanna go into that) kinda like Marth and MK when they find eachother.

Edit: If LoZ gets 6 it should be both. And I agree with the rest of what you said, Shortie.

youre right about attack form. maybe sakurai prefers it? besides that i think in destiny deoxys he was attack form.

and who do you think would win between mewtwo and doexys? the ONLY advantage deoxys has over mewtwo is attack. (deoxys has 5 dots, mewtwo has 4) mewtwo either matches or surpasses deoxys in everything else.

as for toon zelda, would you prefer tetra as her transformation, or that st knight?
nite ive never played st but i did watch my lil bro play loz ww.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Toon Zelda is probably the most likely with her recent playablity and rising apperences.

Edit: I don't know.. Deoxys probably then Mewtwo either joins or teleports away. And go Attack form.

Tetra should be her transformation. Or maybe not one at all (which I don't think is gonna happen). No clue what her FS would be.

 

[Shorts]

I want to hurt myself more and more everytime I see reps being used as an argument. This is not a Nintendo Congress and it never will be. What matters is if a series is complete or not, but this is debateable in a lot of cases.

If Zelda gets a new character, IF, it will probably be one of the following: Midna, Toon Zelda/Tetra, or some character from Zelda Wii provided that said character is popular.

For Mario, the most likely, IMO, are Bowser Jr. and Toad, but nothing says they have to be added each (quotas). If there's concern for Peach's B, either give her a new attack or replace Toad with Toadsworth.

Pokemon is an iffy one. At the very least, I see Mewtwo returning along with Roy. Mewtwo was the only non-clone to be cut due to time constraints. Roy, likewise was cut for the same reasons and like Falco, became popular in his own right. The way Pokemon "representation" seems to work is that it's most prominent in the Pokeballs. All the playable ones are popular in their own right.

Starfox should get Krystal and stop there. I know you don't care for her, Shino, but she is a highly requested character.

why not vaati?

and i hope krystal is added, ssb lacks female characters.

 

[Big-Cat]

Toon Zelda is probably the most likely with her recent playablity and rising apperences.

This to me is probably the best way to predict characters. If the character is/becomes prominent, they stand a decent chance, but dark horses are the exception.

EDIT: Wait, I think I just contradicted myself to a degree. Nonetheless, the character should be popular regardless of when their last appearance was.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Well it helps characters get in. Vaati's apperences ceased so he'd have to be behind TZ. Now that I think about it she really does have the biggest chance... Well besides (hate to say it) Tingle...

Edit: Which I'm pretty sure that TZ's popularity is also rising along with her apperences

 

[Shorts]

This to me is probably the best way to predict characters. If the character is/becomes prominent, they stand a decent chance, but dark horses are the exception.

but remember, ssb4 wont likely be revealed for another two years or so. so will spirit tracks really still stand out after that long?

the best bet to guess new loz characters is through who stands out in loz wii.

imo, that is.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

There will still likely be new Toon games and since (to my distaste) I think they (whoever) said that Toon games are more suited for hanhelds. It doesn't take as long for those. So a new one might be here right before SSB4

 

[Big-Cat]

but remember, ssb4 wont likely be revealed for another two years or so. so will spirit tracks really still stand out after that long?

the best bet to guess new loz characters is through who stands out in loz wii.

imo, that is.

Spirit Tracks might not, but I am willing to bet that the Cel Shaded games will continue to exist since it seems that Nintendo is sticking with two art styles due to the two timelines. As such, Zelda in those games should continue to make appearances. Maybe Tetra will too, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

And don't forget that Toon Zelda was one of the Forbidden Seven. That also means she has a chance since Sakurai was thinking of her.

 

[Shorts]

There will still likely be new Toon games and since (to my distaste) I think they (whoever) said that Toon games are more suited for hanhelds. It doesn't take as long for those. So a new one might be here right before SSB4

very true.

did sakurai have any third party specific rules?

besides that they have to originate from a video game off of a nintendo system?

oh yea i forgot she was a forbidden seven member

 

[Paper Mario Master]

No clue. I think the only two are originate on a vg. And at least once have been on a Nintendo system. Well and legal stuff of course.

 

[Shorts]

No clue. I think the only two are originate on a vg. And at least once have been on a Nintendo system. Well and legal stuff of course.

i remember on the Nsider forums this kid said he know all THREE 3rd parties for brawl. and he said peach wasnt returning -_-

i hope ssb4 delivers on online play. back when brawl worked on my wii it was soo laggy.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

i remember on the Nsider forums this kid said he know all THREE 3rd parties for brawl. and he said peach wasnt returning -_-

i hope ssb4 delivers on online play. back when brawl worked on my wii it was soo laggy.

That's all I have to say about the first part

Yeah, but I don't care much for online play but it does need improvment.

I remember when someone told me that there was a new character called "Toon Link" that they read on th Dojo. I didn't beleive him. I was like "There's no such character as Toon Link."

 

[Shorts]

That's all I have to say about the first part

Yeah, but I don't care much for online play but it does need improvment.

I remember when someone told me that there was a new character called "Toon Link" that they read on th Dojo. I didn't beleive him. I was like "There's no such character as Toon Link."

well when i first heard the name was like "that is NOT his name! its ww link!"

i remember i wad NOT gonna look at spoilers until i bought the game, sooo i stayed off the dojo. well a few days before it was released in america i went on youtube and in the "being watched now" was like 5 secret characters! D:

soo i watched all the vids ^.^

 

[Paper Mario Master]

well when i first heard the name was like "that is NOT his name! its ww link!"

i remember i wad NOT gonna look at spoilers until i bought the game, sooo i stayed off the dojo. well a few days before it was released in america i went on youtube and in the "being watched now" was like 5 secret characters! D:

soo i watched all the vids ^.^

nice. Well I'm gonna leave for a while and won't be back for a while.

So to recap, Toon Zelda is the best guess for LoZ. Deoxys would be awesome. And we'd be fine with 6 Mario Zelda and Pokemon.

 

[Shorts]

nice. Well I'm gonna leave for a while and won't be back for a while.

So to recap, Toon Zelda is the best guess for LoZ. Deoxys would be awesome. And we'd be fine with 6 Mario Zelda and Pokemon.

exactly.
i was gonna do some research for 3rd party character possabilities & likelyhoods.
peace!

 

[Joe-kun]

Toon Zelda's more than likely going to hit SSB4, mainly due to the fact that she was planned for Brawl (well, that, and popularity,) but I can't see it ending well. Think about it this way:

- Link (Unique, own moveset.)
- Zelda/Sheik (Unique, own moveset.)
- Ganondorf (Slow, magical Captain Falcon)
- Toon Link (Link clone with very, very small differences.)

Unless Tetra is Toon Zelda's transformation, I can see the Zelda team being nothing but a pack of clones of other Zelda characters. If that makes sense.

 

[Arcadenik]

why not vaati?

and i hope krystal is added, ssb lacks female characters.

Because Peach, Zelda, Sheik (at least the Brawl version), Samus (both forms), and Nana all have sticks.

Star fox is complete as it is. Dk needs Dixie and K. rool.

Megaman should be the only third party added. Snake should come back.

Vaati should not be Zelda's new character.

I agree with Mega Man but I disagree with Snake. Snake is the most least-deserving character in Brawl and was added only because Kojima begged Sakurai to add him when everyone knows that Snake is closely affiliated to Playstation (Sony) and not to Nintendo. At least Sonic and Mega Man had more than one recent game on the latest Nintendo consoles. Snake only had what? Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes for the Gamecube and it was only a remake of the original Playstation game. I really think we got that remake on the Gamecube just so Kojima could meet Sakurai's rule about third party characters - that third party characters must originate in video games and must have appeared on a Nintendo console at least once. Ever wonder why we don't have any more Metal Gear games on Gamecube or Wii or even the DS? That remake was only to shoehorn Snake into Brawl.

Oh, and I also agree about Vaati. I used to support Vaati when Brawl was announced. But Nintendo haven't used Vaati anymore so there's really no point in adding a retro Zelda character when we have contemporary Zelda characters like Tingle and Toon Zelda to consider. Personally I want Tingle simply because I like the character and he would represent the third leg of the Zelda franchise (the Triforce trio represent the Zelda series in general and adult Link's games, Toon Link represents Toon games, Tingle represents Tingle's spin-off series). Plus he could even be the Balloon Fighter of Smash instead of the generic NES character since Tingle already replaced him in Tingle's Balloon Fight for the DS. Tingle could do a lot more than the Balloon Fighter could such as dropping bombs and rapid-firing Rupees like a machine gun.

Toon Zelda's more than likely going to hit SSB4, mainly due to the fact that she was planned for Brawl (well, that, and popularity,) but I can't see it ending well. Think about it this way:

- Link (Unique, own moveset.)
- Zelda/Sheik (Unique, own moveset.)
- Ganondorf (Slow, magical Captain Falcon)
- Toon Link (Link clone with very, very small differences.)

Unless Tetra is Toon Zelda's transformation, I can see the Zelda team being nothing but a pack of clones of other Zelda characters. If that makes sense.

I really don't want to see the Zelda team become the Star Fox team of SSB4 where everyone are clones of each other except Ganondorf who is a clone of a non-Zelda character. This is another reason why I support Tingle and not Toon Zelda (I like her as a Zelda character but not as a potential (very likely) clone character in Smash).

 

[Pieman0920]

.Like I said earlier, there's a massive problem with the style, at least as it is. It might look realistic, but it moves unrealistically. Peach's dress is all detailed, but play the game and pause at an given moment during an attack and the details looks like they're painted on the dress.

Here's a good, and sexy too, example of this.

I wouldn't call that a massive problem. Heck, I'd call it almost nitpicking. In any case, given that SSB4 has a high chance of being on a newer and more powerful console, why dumb down the graphics because things aren't moveing correctly, and not improve the movement with the new processing power?

 

[B l u e]

Someone posted this:

Here is what I want to see:

1. Sakurai to NOT develop the game.
Considering that this is a fighting game, it's inherently competitive and we cannot have someone working on it who has an opposite philosophy. It's like trying to make Manhunt not violent.

2. No similar/clone characters.
Either declone them completely or make them alternate characters which brings me to my next request.

3. Alternate characters.
This would solve the issue of clones and it would also let other characters be playable. Basically, these characters exist underneath other characters. These alternate characters have their own name and voice. Now, we no longer have only pallet swaps.

4. Bring Mewtwo back.
Nuff' said. I don't care if he's alt., just bring him back.

5. More accurate movesets.
This is mostly applying to the MOTHER series since the only move that either the kids learn in their own game is PK Flash. However, this also applies to other quirks such as Samus having a flame thrower and having the grappling beam coming out her gun when it now comes from her left hand.

6. Add more girls.
Brawl did not add any, excluding Zamus, and there is not enough representation of the girls. Paula, Kumatora, Midna, Captain Syrup, Mona, Ashley, Jody Summer, Lip, and more are viable fighters.

7. Have the designers not think that a character wouldn't work.
By Sakurai's logic, we shouldn't have an AC character. Considering that none of the stuff in SSB makes no sense, this is no different.

8. Add some retro and Japan-only characters.
They show some diversity in the roster and Nintendo can use this an opportunity to see if a demand is sufficient for a revival or bringing a game outside of Japan.

9. Let the fans submit movesets for characters prior to the roster is decided.
This gives characters a chance when they have movesets that might be hard to make up.

10. Be more careful on the trophy descriptions.
In Brawl and Melee, there have been a number of inaccuracies such as Wolf knowing James when that has never been said or implied. Instead, let the development teams who handle each series write these descriptions.

11. Be diverse in trophy selections.
Brawl had mostly trophies who were just straight 3D rips. This ended up with the list consisting of trophies from recent games and not the older games, retro or not.

The only problem I see here, is that Smash wasnt being made to be a fighting game, but more like a party game. Maybe Sakurai added some bad ideas like random tripping, yes.

At any rate give him other opportunity,

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Toon Zelda's more than likely going to hit SSB4, mainly due to the fact that she was planned for Brawl (well, that, and popularity,) but I can't see it ending well. Think about it this way:

- Link (Unique, own moveset.)
- Zelda/Sheik (Unique, own moveset.)
- Ganondorf (Slow, magical Captain Falcon)
- Toon Link (Link clone with very, very small differences.)

Unless Tetra is Toon Zelda's transformation, I can see the Zelda team being nothing but a pack of clones of other Zelda characters. If that makes sense.

That won't happen. Toon Zelda is the only one that that might happen to. Maybe. I also don't see any of Zelda's aerials going to Toon Zelda. I don't think they fit her. And Nayru's Love, Din's Fire and Forore's Wind were never used in any of her games... (but then to be fair Link was the only one that used them) Unless they feel like really screwing things up, they shouldn't give her a cloned set or Toon Shiek. That would be discusting if they made up a clone out of thin air.

 

[Big-Cat]

I wouldn't call that a massive problem. Heck, I'd call it almost nitpicking. In any case, given that SSB4 has a high chance of being on a newer and more powerful console, why dumb down the graphics because things aren't moveing correctly, and not improve the movement with the new processing power?

You call that nitpicking? And remember, getting rid of those details does not mean you're dumbing down anything. The way it is right now, Brawl's graphics are painted on with washed out colors. Which looks more appealing to you:

Actual cel-shading:

Or this with an odd attempt at realism:

For other examples, look at the promo art for the Mario characters versus the ones for Brawl.

I wouldn't have a big deal with the animations if those details weren't present. In other words, if I see intricate details like those in Peach's dress or any furry character, I better see them move realistically.

 

[SwedishChef]

Ok don't kill me but I highly prefer what you call an "odd attempt at realism." Plus without the graphic enhancement of characters, you can kiss Pit and ICs goodbye.

 

[Big-Cat]

Ok don't kill me but I highly prefer what you call an "odd attempt at realism." Plus without the graphic enhancement of characters, you can kiss Pit and ICs goodbye.

What? They would still be in the game. At most, you'd have a different artstyle (or not considering they're retro) for those characters.

 

[Pieman0920]

With Toon Link, and especially with the Mario characters, I like Brawl's art style better, especially given that there can only be one graphics engine. Cel-shaded Link would look very akward, and to represent him properly, you'd have to get a whole different graphic system just for him. And I seriously think you are on the verge of nitpicking when it comes to the added details with the Mario characters, along with the fact that these parts could be given their proper movements in a beefed up system.