[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Arcadenik]

Sakurai will add Pichu in SSB4 only when he needs some last-minute filler clones to increase the roster number. I suspect the Internet would break down if fanboys BAWWW over the return of Pichu when Mewtwo and Roy are still not in the game.

 

[Volkner582]

Mewtwo has a chance of reappearing though.

 

[Pieman0920]

When I have more time to spare, I'll get back to your post Toise. I can make little posts, but since I'm kind of at work, it is hard to reply to something so long.

Anyways, about HG/SS, the only thing I really want from those games to show up in Smash is a Lake of Rage stage, complete with Red Gyrados. T'would be awesome, in my most humble of opinions.

(And no, I don't think notch-eared Pichu will make the cut, since I think that the time between HG/SS and SSB4, and the almost certain new Pokymanz game inbetween will supply us with our new character.

 

[SmashChu]

This analogy can be applied to anyone. Watch how this works.

<insert poor analogies here>

Not sure you know how an analogy works.

1)Mewtwo kind of works, but Lucario is not Mewtwo. This one means your still living in 2008.
2)ZZS didn't replace Ridley. The reason the dog running away works is because you lost something you had. We never had Ridley in Smash.
3)Again, same as above
4)Neither Lip or Ayra were in Smash, so this is two times the fail. Plus, they were never going to be in there anyway.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

This analogy can be applied to anyone. Watch how this works.

No, it only applies to Melee cut characters, and even then it's really just Roy and Mewtwo (you know, the ones people complain about en masse). Cindy never "had" Ridley, Krystal, or Ayra and Nintendo never "gave us" Lip.

Your analogies only work if you change the meaning of the paragraph itself, in which case the entire point is lost.


Pieman: Yeah, take your time. It's huge so I don't expect you to get it all at once. Just don't do that move where you completely forget about it, that makes me feel like you couldn't take the heat or something. Fire Man would be most displeased.


Everyone talking about Pichu: He'd actually work pretty decently as an alt form for Pikachu (just like Doc for Mario) since his huge head and ears should make all of his hitboxes close enough to Pikachu's without having too many of them appear disjointed (although he'd need to "stretch" a lot for tail-based moves).

For comparison:



Call me crazy, but it looks like it'd work well.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I am up for Pichu being playable.

In a female Pokemon Trainer with Jigglypuff and Gardivour.

 

[n88]

@drag0nscythe
Why? It sounds more like an excuse to put Gardevoir in than anything, since Pichu can be made into an alt of Pikachu, and Jiggly can be left alone.

 

[drag0nscythe]

@drag0nscythe
Why? It sounds more like an excuse to put Gardevoir in than anything, since Pichu can be made into an alt of Pikachu, and Jiggly can be left alone.

Pichu would not work as an Alt. Proportions do not match.
Like said above, Pichu is in the running for the Next Gen space.

it would also be nice to have all the old characters come back.

 

[Arcadenik]

Smashchu and Toise, you are missing the point. It does not matter if the character had been playable in a past Smash game or not, if you really wants a particular character so badly and said character is not playable in Brawl at all and you got the roster you did not like, you are going to be butthurt and insist that said character be in SSB4 because you don't care about any other character except for your beloved character.

 

[StinkomanFan]

I'd say another Wario representative would be unique

 

[n88]

@drag0nscythe
Canon proportions don't match. Smash proportions do.

 

[drag0nscythe]

@drag0nscythe
Canon proportions don't match. Smash proportions do.

I would like my characters to at least look like they should.

Pichu needs to look like Pichu. Not a pikachu who was drowned in tar and had his tail flattened with a press.

 

[n88]

I would like my characters to at least look like they should.

Pichu needs to look like Pichu. Not a pikachu who was drowned in tar and had his tail flattened with a press.

Did you look at the pictures Toise posted?

Pichu

a) Looks like Pichu
b) Could fit Pikachu's hit/hurtboxes nicely

 

[drag0nscythe]

Did you look at the pictures Toise posted?

Pichu

a) Looks like Pichu
b) Could fit Pikachu's hit/hurtboxes nicely

His ears are to big.
His head is to big
His tail is to small.
His body, arms and legs may work.

He would not work.

If you could accept this, then I can accept Paper Mario being a good "Costume" for mario then.

 

[kirbywizard]

you said that she didn't have an impact on the game I was just saying that to me she did...and a bunch of other people too.

I know my Fire EMblem games, and the only impact she had was being a fantastic unit. She has a fan base, but not something as big as Ike's or even Mich. She is a great unit, but she hardly impacts the story at all.

 

[n88]

Tail's a small problem. (No pun intended)

Basically, any problems could be solved by a slight hurtbox adjustment.

 

[Pieman0920]

Pieman: Yeah, take your time. It's huge so I don't expect you to get it all at once. Just don't do that move where you completely forget about it, that makes me feel like you couldn't take the heat or something. Fire Man would be most displeased.

I will, and I know I didn't respond to that thing that we were debating about before I had my wisdom teeth pulled out. (Whatever it was...)

And on Pichu, he wouldn't work as a alternate costume, because his design can't go right over Pikachu's and rather needs its own model. (Pika is tubby) Perhaps if you define it as "alt form" instead of costume, there's a chance, but as I said, it needs a lot more work than say Wario's costumes.

Oh, and on Neph, she really has no chance. While she's a good unit, her role in the story isn't nearly large enough. If you want to insist on a FE spear user, both Ephraim and Shiida both can fill in for that, and they both have more important roles than Neph. (Of course I find both doubtful, though Emphraim more so than Shiida)

 

[drag0nscythe]

Tail's a small problem. (No pun intended)

Basically, any problems could be solved by a slight hurtbox adjustment.

Which does not make it a "costume." It makes him closer to an alt character then.
If you want model changes as well with your costumes, fine. But that is alot more effort.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Smashchu and Toise, you are missing the point. It does not matter if the character had been playable in a past Smash game or not, if you really wants a particular character so badly and said character is not playable in Brawl at all and you got the roster you did not like, you are going to be butthurt and insist that said character be in SSB4 because you don't care about any other character except for your beloved character.

Except the original discussion was over whether cut characters could return, specifically Roy, and how people generally want what they once had but don't anymore.

You're changing the subject in a debate you weren't even a part of. Why?



And Dragonscythe, you need to understand that making hitboxes fit is pretty much the only challenge with making an alt costume (well that and maintaining certain themes, but it's not an issue here). The tail seems to be the only obstacle, and there are ways around that without grossly exaggerating its size for a couple moves.

Be honest, do you really not see Pichu as possible or are you just against something that threatens the Female Trainer idea you've had for like a year now?

 

[drag0nscythe]

Except the original discussion was over whether cut characters could return, specifically Roy, and how people generally want what they once had but don't anymore.

You're changing the subject in a debate you weren't even a part of. Why?



And Dragonscythe, you need to understand that making hitboxes fit is pretty much the only challenge with making an alt costume (well that and maintaining certain themes, but it's not an issue here). The tail seems to be the only obstacle, and there are ways around that without grossly exaggerating its size for a couple moves.

Be honest, do you really not see Pichu as possible or are you just against something that threatens the Female Trainer idea you've had for like a year now?

1. People want old characters to return. It was like during SF3. Everyone pinned for the SF2 cast. Now we have SF4, with guess what. the SF2 cast.

2. If you change hitboxes, then we have to add the costumes to the tier list.

Pichu costume can duck under said attack while Pikachu costume cannot.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

I know he never technically used Lethality, but Smash seems to like to bend the rules when it comes to what FE characters can do. LEthaliy is the "Secret move" for the assassain class in all games they are in. Sothe would just be the epitome of the class due to his story involvement and use Lethality

True since Ike got Great Aether from close to nowhere Sothe could get Lethality from Assasains.

to the Pokemon character argument:

NO Pichu, he's just filler as his own space and other Pokemon could be better.
as for a new PT I'd prefer 3rd gen w/ Treecko Marshtomp and Blaziken, we will probably be getting a HG SS rep and maybe a 3rd gen rep.

So besides Pika and Jiggs the Pkmn roster will most likely be: 1st gen (PT) HG/SS 3rd gen and one other any gen rep.

My choices for PKMN would be Pika Jiggs PT 3rd gen Rival (above^) idk HG/SS cuz none of the 2nd gen have SSB stand-alone compatibility and either Mewtwo, Lucario, or Gardevoir who could all have a similar moveset.

 

[Starphoenix]

I am so sick and tired of the idea that every generation of Pokémon needs to have a character or that one generation is over represented versus another. Just need to let that out.

As far as Pichu goes I could support him as an "alternate" to Pikachu. A bit of a stretch? Yes, but it could work. I just was curious if anyone would be comfortable if the little guy ever did return. Mewtwo and Roy deserve more priority.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I am so sick and tired of the idea that every generation of Pokémon needs to have a character or that one generation is over represented versus another. Just need to let that out.

As far as Pichu goes I could support him as an "alternate" to Pikachu. A bit of a stretch? Yes, but it could work. I just was curious if anyone would be comfortable if the little guy ever did return. Mewtwo and Roy deserve more priority.

I want him to return.

I want Roy to return as a character or a costume of Marth.
I want Dr. Mario to return as a costume of Mario.
I want Pichu to be in a female pokemon trainer with Jiggs and Gardivour
I want Mewtwo to return as playable.

That is what I would like to see.
A return of everyone.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

2. If you change hitboxes, then we have to add the costumes to the tier list.

Pichu costume can duck under said attack while Pikachu costume cannot.

No one said anything about changing hitboxes. The whole point of alt costumes is that they play the exact same. Same stats, same hitboxes, same frame data, same everything except voice and appearance. Pichu's model can fit into Pikachu's hitboxes easily for every move except the ones with his tail (dtilt, utilt, usmash, uair). And there are ways to get around the tail issue without making it grow 10 times its normal size.

As far as "a lot more effort," it'd take like two guys an extra day to play around with the model to make the animations match up to the hitboxes. It's far FAR less effort than making him part of your Female Trainer.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

I want him to return.

I want Roy to return as a character or a costume of Marth.
I want Dr. Mario to return as a costume of Mario.
I want Pichu to be in a female pokemon trainer with Jiggs and Gardivour
I want Mewtwo to return as playable.

That is what I would like to see.
A return of everyone.

You are crazy.

1. cuz you want Jiggs to be in a PT
2. cuz, if you are, you're one of those people that would like to see perfectly stand-alone pokemon be put in a PT and have them fill up the roster just so more pokemon can be.

I'm fine w/ Gardevoir but she's way too cool to in a PT.

and to Starphoenix:

I didn't say that we needed a rep from each gen I just said it was likely that we'd get a HG/SS and maybe a 3rd gen and any gen.

 

[Tacel]

You are crazy.

1. cuz you want Jiggs to be in a PT
2. cuz, if you are, you're one of those people that would like to see perfectly stand-alone pokemon be put in a PT and have them fill up the roster just so more pokemon can be.

So he's crazy because he has an opinion?
I'll have to remember that.

I want Roy to return as a character or a costume of Marth.
I want Dr. Mario to return as a costume of Mario.
I want Pichu to be in a female pokemon trainer with Jiggs and Gardivour
I want Mewtwo to return as playable.

Green parts I agree with and red parts I don't.
In my opinion (which apparently I'll be crazy for having), I think that they should just bring back Roy with his own moveset, because if he comes back as a costume, he might have a smaller chance of being his own character.
I also think that if there's going to be another Pokémon Trainer, he/she should have only starter Pokémon. Also, didn't realy like the idea of Pichu, but they could always make the Pichu Brothers a playable character like the Ice Climbers.
But I do like your ideas.

 

[StinkomanFan]

I think the only way all of us will ever be happy is if they release a "Customizable" option in SSB4 similar to those in wrestling games. That way all of our characters no matter how stupid and pointless can be created.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

So he's crazy because he has an opinion?
I'll have to remember that.

In my opinion (which apparently I'll be crazy for having)

Oh, now you're just being jerk about it.

I said he was crazy because he took 1. a dead character 2. a stand-alone pkmn (not to mention one the original 12) 3. a perfect stand-alone pkmn that I wouldn't mind having in and just rolled them into a PT as an excuse to have Pichu back (bad character anyways) and another pokemon in the game.

 

[xceed_xcel]

he not saying he's crazy for having an opinion but for taking away jiggilypuffs stand alone character slot also reducing its special moves

 

[Tacel]

Oh, now you're just being jerk about it.

I said he was crazy because he took 1. a dead character 2. a stand-alone pkmn (not to mention one the original 12) 3. a perfect stand-alone pkmn that I wouldn't mind having in and just rolled them into a PT as an excuse to have Pichu back (bad character anyways) and another pokemon in the game.

But just because you don't agree with him doesn't make him crazy.
I don't like the idea but you don't see me putting him down the way you are.
If I'm a jerk for defending him (sarcastically, I know), who are you to be insulting him?

he not saying he's crazy for having an opinion but for taking away jiggilypuffs stand alone character slot also reducing its special moves

It was just an opinion. Even if it's the worst thing in the world, it's someone's opinion.
End of discussion

I think the only way all of us will ever be happy is if they release a "Customizable" option in SSB4 similar to those in wrestling games. That way all of our characters no matter how stupid and pointless can be created.

I like your idea Stinko.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

But just because you don't agree with him doesn't make him crazy.

It was just an opinion. Even if it's the worst thing in the world, it's someone's opinion.

I actually find it offensive toward the Smash series, plus I don't know why you are the one arguing, if he has something to say about it let him say it.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I actually find it offensive toward the Smash series, plus I don't know why you are the one arguing, if he has something to say about it let him say it.

What? I am not crazy. Just a mad genus.
That Jiggs gets bumped down?

She has lost alot of popularity since her inclusion in N64. She would fit in a trainer just fine. And if you need to know, the point is to get all characters back, not just Pichu.

Also, Luigi has a special taunt that hurts people and we have three taunts in brawl with four buttons. Move Jiggs sleep move to down taunt and allow her to do this taunt any where she wants.

Jiggs losing a move solved.

That or make it that FPT has to taunt to change pokemon.

 

[Tacel]

I actually find it offensive toward the Smash series.

Ok. That's your opinion. I'm fine with that. You just could have said it without completely insulting someone.
Now we can continue to bicker like children, or we can discuss Smash 4.
I would like to change this subject before this gets out of hand.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

What? I am not crazy. Just a mad genus.
That Jiggs gets bumped down?

She has lost alot of popularity since her inclusion in N64. She would fit in a trainer just fine. And if you need to know, the point is to get all characters back, not just Pichu.

Also, Luigi has a special taunt that hurts people and we have three taunts in brawl with four buttons. Move Jiggs sleep move to down taunt and allow her to do this taunt any where she wants.

Jiggs losing a move solved.

That or make it that FPT has to taunt to change pokemon.

WE DON"T NEED A SECOND PT!! AND WE DO NOT NEED TO REP EVERY POKEMON GEN!!

 

[Ninja Kirby Nick!]

Hay Guys. What's up?

I see a fight going on, so I'm too frightened to respond .

 

[Tacel]

No, it's okay to step out now, just only walk on the dirt paths.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

What? I am not crazy. Just a mad genus.
That Jiggs gets bumped down?

She has lost alot of popularity since her inclusion in N64. She would fit in a trainer just fine. And if you need to know, the point is to get all characters back, not just Pichu.

Also, Luigi has a special taunt that hurts people and we have three taunts in brawl with four buttons. Move Jiggs sleep move to down taunt and allow her to do this taunt any where she wants.

Jiggs losing a move solved.

That or make it that FPT has to taunt to change pokemon.

No, thats not what I'm saying, I'm saying that moving Jiggs to a PT is kinda like taking her out and that is just like taking any of the O 12. changing any of the 12's status is not right.

And the mad genius thing, That's also what Izuka said in Radiant Dawn.

To TheAceLucario:

You're not a jerk for defending, it's the way you're defending him hence being a jerk about it

 

[Ninja Kirby Nick!]

No, thats not what I'm saying, I'm saying that moving Jiggs to a PT is kinda like taking her out and that is just like taking any of the O 12. changing any of the 12's status is not right.

And the mad genius thing, That's also what Izuka said in Radiant Dawn.

To TheAceLucario:

You're not a jerk for defending, it's the way you're defending him hence being a jerk about it

C-c-can't we all just get along !?

Or at least talk about something else

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

C-c-can't we all just get along !?

And maybe while we're at it, we could nerf Sonic if he returns; Sakurai would love to do that.

 

[Ninja Kirby Nick!]

And maybe while we're at it, we colud nerf Sonic if he returns; Sakurai would love to do that.

Sonic already sucks enough as it is, since 90% of his attacks involve him spinning in some way -_-.