[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[n88]

Why woud Ridley be that hard to add in when we aready have Charizard? The only major physical difference between the two is that Ridley has longer legs. =/

Anyways on bosses, as I said before, if Brawl is any indication, the bosses that get in have to be "important" to a extent...at least more so than any random throw away boss from game X. Petey reoccurs often and the same is true for Ridley. Porkey is a final boss if I'm not mistaken, and Rayquaza is the poster Pokemon for Emerald.

That being said, Kracko has a good chance, since he shows up often in Kirby games. Giritania may be good too, though it may be too late for him by SSB4. King Boo, Vatti (eye form), and Gohma also seem possible.

Hmm.... I'd rather see King Boo as an AT.

@drag0nscythe
And :bigthumbu to Andross.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Why woud Ridley be that hard to add in when we aready have Charizard? The only major physical difference between the two is that Ridley has longer legs. =/

Anyways on bosses, as I said before, if Brawl is any indication, the bosses that get in have to be "important" to a extent...at least more so than any random throw away boss from game X. Petey reoccurs often and the same is true for Ridley. Porkey is a final boss if I'm not mistaken, and Rayquaza is the poster Pokemon for Emerald.

That being said, Kracko has a good chance, since he shows up often in Kirby games. Giritania may be good too, though it may be too late for him by SSB4. King Boo, Vatti (eye form), and Gohma also seem possible.

Come to think of it, Whispy Woods is also a good candidate for an iconic Kirby boss...even though he can't move.

Also, there is Nightmare, the most well-known pure evil Kirby final boss next to Dark Matter. He got to be the anime series' ultimate villain, to boot.

@drag0nscythe: I approve Andross, Mother Brain, Eggman, Giygas, Black Knight and Metal Gear Rex! :bigthumbu

 

[Clownbot]

The final boss shouldn't be a character from an existing Nintendo series; it would be misconstrued as Sakurai being biased, and we ALL KNOW how that'd go....

It should just be a Smash OC, like Tabuu. Maybe someone less fail-ish though.

 

[n88]

The final boss shouldn't be a character from an existing Nintendo series; it would be misconstrued as Sakurai being biased, and we ALL KNOW how that'd go....

It should just be a Smash OC, like Tabuu. Maybe someone less fail-ish though.

Or the Final Boss could be Meta Knight!!

I think Tabuu will return as the Final Boss, despite Fail-ishness. (Although that would go away if he was given some kind of back story)

 

[Arcadenik]

Sakurai is not Miyamoto. If he delayed the game once, its likely due to removing the lost seven characters to add Sonic (only because Nintendo and Sega told him to) and the second delay is to make more copies of the game for the new release date. If Sakurai had to delay SSB4 just to add Ridley, it would likely be due to Nintendo pressuring Sakurai to add him to make Ridley fanboys happy.

How do you know that Ridley is not too difficult to add in Smash? Were you part of the development? If no, then don't say its not. Only Sakurai would know, after all, he's the one who led the development, and he's the one who said it is too difficult to add Ridley. That's all we know.

Sakurai knows the fans want Ridley playable. But he also knows that Ridley is NOT THE ONLY ONE the fans want playable. And he also knows he cannot make everyone happy so he tries to make most of them happy. Ridley is not the only character the fans want. They want other characters, not just Ridley. And they would be happy if some of these characters got in, even if Ridley didn't.

I am not surprised that you guys think I'm biased against Ridley. I enjoy Metroid games but I distanced myself from the Metroid fanbase so that I can be objective about the franchise. I know Ridley is an important character in the franchise, but I think I understand why Sakurai said Ridley might be too difficult to work as a viable Smash fighter.

Even if you resized Ridley down to Bowser's size, he would still have some issues that could make him a broken character. Ridley should be a heavyweight if he's as big as Bowser, right? Ridley has long arms, legs, and tail so he should have long-ranged attacks. The fact Ridley has wings should give him the ability to jump multiple times and glide like Charizard. These are not such a big deal. But you have to remember that Ridley is very fast and strong in the Metroid games so he would have to be fast and strong in Smash. A heavyweight character who fights with very strong and quick long-ranged attacks and can move around very fast and has the ability to multiple jump and glide on top of all these. This sounds like a broken character.

 

[n88]

Sakurai is not Miyamoto. If he delayed the game once, its likely due to removing the lost seven characters to add Sonic (only because Nintendo and Sega told him to) and the second delay is to make more copies of the game for the new release date. If Sakurai had to delay SSB4 just to add Ridley, it would likely be due to Nintendo pressuring Sakurai to add him to make Ridley fanboys happy.

How do you know that Ridley is not too difficult to add in Smash? Were you part of the development? If no, then don't say its not. Only Sakurai would know, after all, he's the one who led the development, and he's the one who said it is too difficult to add Ridley. That's all we know.

Sakurai knows the fans want Ridley playable. But he also knows that Ridley is NOT THE ONLY ONE the fans want playable. And he also knows he cannot make everyone happy so he tries to make most of them happy. Ridley is not the only character the fans want. They want other characters, not just Ridley. And they would be happy if some of these characters got in, even if Ridley didn't.

I am not surprised that you guys think I'm biased against Ridley. I enjoy Metroid games but I distanced myself from the Metroid fanbase so that I can be objective about the franchise. I know Ridley is an important character in the franchise, but I think I understand why Sakurai said Ridley might be too difficult to work as a viable Smash fighter.

Even if you resized Ridley down to Bowser's size, he would still have some issues that could make him a broken character. Ridley should be a heavyweight if he's as big as Bowser, right? Ridley has long arms, legs, and tail so he should have long-ranged attacks. The fact Ridley has wings should give him the ability to jump multiple times and glide like Charizard. These are not such a big deal. But you have to remember that Ridley is very fast and strong in the Metroid games so he would have to be fast and strong in Smash. A heavyweight character who fights with very strong and quick long-ranged attacks and can move around very fast and has the ability to multiple jump and glide on top of all these. This sounds like a broken character.

Point 1: Miyamoto is the producer of Smash. I believe he can delay the release.

Point 2: Brawl was delayed a lot. It was intended as a launch title, and got pushed back more than twice, IIRC

Point 3: I was not part of the development, so I do not know. But the only obstacle I can see is size. Please point out whatever other problems he has.

On balance:

Ridley is very lanky, so he would not be quite as heavy as Bowser, Snake, D3, and DK. Also, his hurtbox would be so big thanks to his wings that he would be extremely susceptible to projectile spam/comboing. I think Ridley would turn out as a glass cannon.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think Tabuu will return as the Final Boss, despite Fail-ishness. (Although that would go away if he was given some kind of back story)

Some backstory would be nice, yes. The only thing we know is that he's the ruler of Subspace.

Personally, the final boss should be a new, terrifying being that is more fearsome than Tabuu. I mean, Tabuu looked like a glowing Piccolo (no offense to the DBZ fanbase :embarrass ).

 

[drag0nscythe]

Sakurai is not Miyamoto. If he delayed the game once, its likely due to removing the lost seven characters to add Sonic (only because Nintendo and Sega told him to) and the second delay is to make more copies of the game for the new release date. If Sakurai had to delay SSB4 just to add Ridley, it would likely be due to Nintendo pressuring Sakurai to add him to make Ridley fanboys happy.

What delay for SSB4. Oh right. Speculation. If Ridley was added at the beginning, no delay. Stop spouting nonsense.

How do you know that Ridley is not too difficult to add in Smash? Were you part of the development? If no, then don't say its not. Only Sakurai would know, after all, he's the one who led the development, and he's the one who said it is too difficult to add Ridley. That's all we know.

How do you know he would not be too difficult? I know sakurai mentioned him in an interview, but his comment was quick, sparse and more of a 'wave of the hand' then anything. Also, things change. Something that might seem hard at one time will not be hard at another. Sakurai knows the fan demand.

Sakurai knows the fans want Ridley playable. But he also knows that Ridley is NOT THE ONLY ONE the fans want playable. And he also knows he cannot make everyone happy so he tries to make most of them happy. Ridley is not the only character the fans want. They want other characters, not just Ridley. And they would be happy if some of these characters got in, even if Ridley didn't.

He is the only one with a chance from Metroid. You are trying to say "He cannot because he cannot." The polls show Ridley as number three. He knows this more then anyone else and he knows more people want Ridley then other characters. Stop trying to down play his importance and popularity.

I am not surprised that you guys think I'm biased against Ridley.

you are. Look at your posts and language.

I enjoy Metroid games but I distanced myself from the Metroid fanbase so that I can be objective about the franchise. I know Ridley is an important character in the franchise, but I think I understand why Sakurai said Ridley might be too difficult to work as a viable Smash fighter.

Funny. I never really cared for the metroid games. I only ever beat Super Metroid and I watched someone else beat all the others. I think I have as much credibility as you on this. I can see why sakurai though ridley was hard to work with, but I can also see that with alittle more effort he could have done it. Like Balloon fighter, he to can have a moveset.

Ridley is not difficult to make playable. With the release of MP3, he is even easier to make playable now.

Even if you resized Ridley down to Bowser's size, he would still have some issues that could make him a broken character. Ridley should be a heavyweight if he's as big as Bowser, right? Ridley has long arms, legs, and tail so he should have long-ranged attacks. The fact Ridley has wings should give him the ability to jump multiple times and glide like Charizard. These are not such a big deal. But you have to remember that Ridley is very fast and strong in the Metroid games so he would have to be fast and strong in Smash. A heavyweight character who fights with very strong and quick long-ranged attacks and can move around very fast and has the ability to multiple jump and glide on top of all these. This sounds like a broken character.

Did you read that Ridley post I linked to. It covered all these points. All this rambling is just bull.

From the top.

Even if you resized Ridley down to Bowser's size, he would still have some issues that could make him a broken character.

No. It is called balancing and compromise. Like Ike, who is fast in FE, but slow in Brawl. Go figure.

Ridley should be a heavyweight if he's as big as Bowser, right?

This is what happens when you take a boss and make him playable. Make him mid-to-heavy weight. More of Samus weight if you ask me. He is rather skinny.

Ridley has long arms, legs, and tail so he should have long-ranged attacks.

Keep his moves close to his body. Make it that his moves do more damage up close then far away. Given his size, balance would fall from there. Do weak damage from a safe distance, or do good damage in the danger zone.

The fact Ridley has wings should give him the ability to jump multiple times and glide like Charizard. These are not such a big deal. But you have to remember that Ridley is very fast and strong in the Metroid games so he would have to be fast and strong in Smash.

What does, "Make a boss playalbe" do you not understand. Look at when Bowser is a boss IN MELEE - He is bigger then he is playable. He is stronger then he is playable and he was alittle bit faster. That is what happens with bosses. They are big, fast and powerful. Compromise it. Ridley should have 3 jump like Charizard. Dedede showed that big characters can multi jump.

As for speed. Make him fast, but weak.
make him mid-heavy weight, but eaiser to knockback. Make it so small moves do not phase him and power moves send him flying.

A heavyweight character who fights with very strong and quick long-ranged attacks and can move around very fast and has the ability to multiple jump and glide on top of all these. This sounds like a broken character.

I fixed most of the broken-ness. You are trying to say "Ridley 100% perfect or not at all." That is bull because none of the characters in Brawl are 100% perfect reps from their series.

Compromise is the key. You are taking a character from a non-fighting game and making them playable. This happens.

The post discussing all your points is in my sig now. It is the Ridley Defense post. That covers many of your claims. It is kind of old and needs to be rewritten, but I am lazy there.

NOW. Lets put this ridley debate to bed. Everything has been covered. Back to bosses.

I like the idea of Whispy woods. That is probably the most iconic boss fight in the whole kirby series. It is in every game I think.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I like the idea of Whispy woods. That is probably the most iconic boss fight in the whole kirby series. It is in every game I think.

Close. There are some games that he doesn't appear in (e.g. Kirby Squeak Squad). However, he truly is the most common (and iconic) one.

 

[Pieman0920]

While I wouldn't really object if Whispy Woods was a boss, I think his status in the Smash series will remain being a background hazard...if you can really call him a hazard. He's had that role for three games so far, and very well could stay like that.

 

[UberMario]

Wow, no one had anything to say about my post two pages ago?

 

[drag0nscythe]

If they modify any of the characters that have already been in Melee/Brawl, this is what I would want changed in SSB4:

Mario: FLUDD (after a full charge) can use any of it's modes.

Would be very tough to implement. While a cool idea, I think it would work poorly.

Luigi: Can use the Poltergust 3000

I like this idea.

Yoshi: Egg Roll no longer leaves you in a freefall. and launches you forwards when used in the air.

Uh. okay. No real comment. I do not use Yoshi.

Bowser: Side B is now a mace. (Like in SMRPG)

I like his Side B move in brawl. I would like it to have multiple options though. Side B with Bowser. once he grabs - A is bite. B again is to bowserplex.

Peach: Perry instead of Toad

Or toadsworth.

Wario: Corkscrew can be aimed, and the bike can be damaged WHILE Wario is on it.

Agreed.

Donkey Kong: Headbutt becomes his new FSmash, with Barrell Throwing replacing SideB.

Uh, nah. DK's moveset is fine the way it is.

Diddy Kong: Throws rocks instead of bananas (just so he doesn't throw items already in the game as a move)

Nah. Diddy should be paired with Dixie. Dixie can throw rocks.

Dr. Mario: Uses his stethoscope as a chain, and his pills have varying effects (sleep, poison, etc.)

Should be a costume of Mario.

Roy: Counter becomes replaced with Spire, which is a wall of flame that jettisons out of his upraised sword. His FS would be Eruption, which is an explosion of flame around him that does high knockback.

Should be a costume of Marth. If on his own, I like these changes.

Marth: Speaks English in the NA version. Counter becomes quicker after repeated use.

He has to speak japanese. It gives him a quirk. Changes sound fine to me.

Ike: Has lightning effects instead of fire (to seperate him from Roy). Down B becones Discharge, which is like eruption but with sparks. Neutral B becomes Ion, which is a electric wave that has reflective properties around Ike. Great Aether would be the same, but he finishes off with a lightning bolt instead of a ground slam.

Lightning. I guess. Does he use it in FE?

Pokemon Trainer: Pokemon Change takes less time. One of each starter-type can be chosen.

NO. Keep PT with the same pokemon. PT time change does need to be quicker.

Pikachu: His moves are more anime-styled. His FS becomes the Volt Tackle from the Anime.

His moves are fine though. Maybe alittle more flare, but nothing to new.

Pichu: B Move becomes Charm, which results in the opponent becoming "shieldstunned". Side B becomes Double-Edge which works like quick draw, but quicker and more powerful. Down B becomes Shock Wave, which results in nearby foes becoming entrapped in electricity. (Like Zapdos from Melee, but Pichu ends up with half of the damage of his opponents.) His FS is Volt Tackle from Brawl.

I like the move changes, but I honestly think Pichu cannot carry a character slot on his own. Put him in a trainer with Jiggs and Gardivour.

Mewtwo: His side B becomes Will-o-Wisp, a blue flame that homes in on nearby foes. His FS would be Pyschic, which causes nearby foes to shoot upwards.

I liked his melee moveset (except for that one move that did nothing. cannot remember which one right now.) His FS sounds fine though.

Jigglypuff: Sing lasts twice as long. Side B becomes Protect (which negates knockback) when used on the ground, and Body Slam if used in the air.

Like I said up there with Pichu. Put jiggs in a trainer. Move Sleep to down taunt. Make it a special taunt that does damage.

Lucario: Side B becomes Bone Rush. With Close Combat becoming his New FS.

No clue what bone rush is.

Kirby: Uses the powers available from the series. With "Neutral" having Inhale, Sliding Kick, Hi-Jump, and Plummet as his B, Side B, Up B and Down B respectively.

I disagree. I like Kirby's moveset already. It needs no real change.

DeDeDe: Side B becomes Rex Wheelie, which would work like Wario's Bike. Jet Hammer becomes a spinning move instead of an uppercut. His FS would have Wheelies instead of Waddle Dees.

As a Dedede mainer, I disagree. Waddle De toss is very important.

Meta-Knight: Uses standard moves that he actually had in the series. Final Cutter is his Neutral B move if used on the ground, otherwise it's Mach Tornado. His FS would be a giant tornado (like in KSSU)

Didn't he use many of his standard moves already? Still, alittle more flair would not hurt.

Mr. Game & Watch: Oil Panic now requires 5 projectiles, but breaks shields and has no startup lag when filled.

5 is to much. I barely ever get three. when ever I choose G&W, people go "Right no projectiles."

Ice Climbers: If one of the climbers is KO'd, you gain control of whatever Climber is left, regardless of who it is.

Might work. Would be slightly broken though in a way.

Link: Has more air-time with his UpB

Agreed.

Young Link: Uses his masks.

No return I believe. Good idea if he had a chance.

Toon Link: Uses Skull Hammer for his Down B, and rides a Deku Leaf with his SideB.

Agreed,

Ganondorf: UpB is now Teleport, NeutralB is Shadow Ball, and Down B is a punch downwards that spikes and has mid-long-range.

for Ganondorf, I think he should keep his brawl moveset, except his Down B move becomes "pull out sword." He will draw his sword and then have a new moveset to use. A magic/sword moveset. He would use his giant blade from melee and fight similar to Nightmare from soul calibur.

Zelda/Shiek: Down B takes longer.

No. It's speed is fine IMO.

Ness: PSI Teleport is his new UpB. PK Rockin' is his FS.

sounds fine to me,

Lucas: PK Sheildoff is his SideB, and PK Ground (which works like DK's headbutt) is his new DownB.

Anything to make him more unique in the B move department.

Captain Falcon: Falcon Punch is twice as powerful. His FS no longer has cinematics.

Fine. considering it is hard to connect anyway.

Samus: Falls slower, but can't "Bomb Jump".

She needs the bomb jump.

ZSS: Down B, and Neutral B are switched.

sounds fine to me.

Sonic: Caliber, his sword from Sonic & the Black Knight, becomes his DownB.

Nah. His moveset was fine, while being slightly boring.

Snake: C4 can not be used as a recovery.

I think that would be impossible to change.

Pit: UpB can be used again after being hit out of it.

Agreed. Give it a time limit.

ROB: Can use more than one gyro at a time.

One was enough.

Fox: Lasers do more damage.

Agreed,

Falco: Uses an Arwing for his FS. Laser can be aimed downwards.

Agreed.

Wolf: Down B becomes replaced with a counter-type move involving his claws. His FS summons his Star Wolf fleet to bombard the stage.

His FS should be Wolfin Laser barrage. He will signal the wolfin squad, and many blasts will fly from all around the screen.

Like your idea also.

 

[kirbywizard]

The only way I can see Luigi using the vacuum is if you replace it with his side B >_>.

Jiggs keep as is but make sing useful

Also about Ike using Lighting's he never used it in the game and the fire matches him a little more the Lightning attacks.

I don't see a problem if Roy and Ike used fire attacks I mean they both did have to use the Fire Emblem in the story in both of their games

 

[UberMario]

Lightning. I guess. Does he use it in FE?

No, but he doesn't have fire in the series either! LOL (Only Roy does)

No clue what bone rush is.

He forms a bone out of aura which works like a club/staff. You can see this in the anime.

As a Dedede mainer, I disagree. Waddle De toss is very important.

This was mostly to make it possible for Waddle Dee to have his own slot.

Didn't he use many of his standard moves already? Still, alittle more flair would not hurt.

The only moves that correspond to what he had in the games are SideB, NeutralB, UpThrow, and . . . . . . everything else was made up.

5 is to much. I barely ever get three. when ever I choose G&W, people go "Right no projectiles."

Yeah, but the current one can be sheilded. Imagine an undodgable IKO move.
(For REAL punishment for projectile spammers.)

Might work. Would be slightly broken though in a way.

Only if CG-ing is still possible in the next game.

Nah. His moveset was fine, while being slightly boring.

I just find his sideB and downB to be WAY too similar.

I think that would be impossible to change.

You could make the C4's fall speed faster.

His FS should be Wolfin Laser barrage. He will signal the wolfin squad, and many blasts will fly from all around the screen.

Like your idea also.

How is my idea any different from yours? LOL

 

[Arcadenik]

What delay for SSB4. Oh right. Speculation. If Ridley was added at the beginning, no delay. Stop spouting nonsense.

And speculating that Ridley would be added at the beginning is not nonsense? Right.

How do you know he would not be too difficult? I know sakurai mentioned him in an interview, but his comment was quick, sparse and more of a 'wave of the hand' then anything. Also, things change. Something that might seem hard at one time will not be hard at another. Sakurai knows the fan demand.

If Sakurai says its difficult to add Ridley, then its difficult to do so. He should know that. He's the one who's making the game!

He is the only one with a chance from Metroid. You are trying to say "He cannot because he cannot." The polls show Ridley as number three. He knows this more then anyone else and he knows more people want Ridley then other characters. Stop trying to down play his importance and popularity.

If Ridley is the ONLY one with a chance... why the support for Dark Samus, Mysterious Black Guy, or anyone from Other M? It seems that people support Ridley (and anyone else for that matter) simply for the sake of a second Metroid character.

Funny. I never really cared for the metroid games. I only ever beat Super Metroid and I watched someone else beat all the others. I think I have as much credibility as you on this. I can see why sakurai though ridley was hard to work with, but I can also see that with alittle more effort he could have done it. Like Balloon fighter, he to can have a moveset.

You don't really care for the Metroid games? So you are just a poser. You want Ridley simply because almost everyone on the Internet are on the Ridley bandwagon. Its just as bad as wanting Geno in Brawl despite never played Super Mario RPG.

You talk like its too easy to just add a character with "a little more effort". This isn't MYM where with "a little more effort", you just come up with how Ridley would work. It might work on paper, but when it comes to actual programming, I'd imagine that its difficult to make Ridley work properly as a viable Smash fighter.

Everyone can work in Smash if you just put "a little more effort." It doesn't mean they would work out very good when you're actually programming them.

The post discussing all your points is in my sig now. It is the Ridley Defense post. That covers many of your claims. It is kind of old and needs to be rewritten, but I am lazy there.

Your Ridley Defense post? And the goal of that post is to try to convince as many people as possible all over the Internet to start supporting Ridley? If you had to make such a tl;dr post in the first place, it just goes to show how desperate you really are for Ridley.

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

Bowser was scaled down.
See how FRIGGEN huge he was in SMB3, SMW, PM, SM64, ETC, ETC?? They only gave him his actual size in ssb during the end of adventure mode in melee.

If we applied most of the actual sizes, Mewtwo and Samus would be the taller of the bi-pedal characters (Not including the heavyweight class).

 

[Wizzerd]

Might work. Would be slightly broken though in a way.

It could work as long as it counts as a KO every time one dies. But I think the system works fine as it is, the only change they need is to show Nana's damage meter. It can be inconvenient not to be able to see it for me as an Ice Climbers main.

 

[UberMario]

How would Samus be the tallest? She isn't a giantess.

 

[Pieman0920]

If they modify any of the characters that have already been in Melee/Brawl, this is what I would want changed in SSB4:

Mario: FLUDD (after a full charge) can use any of it's modes.

Probably isn't needed. The only thing really new that he'd get is a dash move, which would probably work like Luigi's side B.

Luigi: Can use the Poltergust 3000

And what move do you want axed for it? In any case, this change is fine by me if its something like down B.

Yoshi: Egg Roll no longer leaves you in a freefall. and launches you forwards when used in the air.

Does it technically do this a bit in Brawl? In any case, if I were to change it, I'd make it more ike how it works in YI, though that's just me.

Bowser: Side B is now a mace. (Like in SMRPG)

Bowser's current side B is fine. While it isn't really symbolic of Bowser, neither is the mace really.

Peach: Perry instead of Toad

Why? Just have Perry be her Up Special or something...

Wario: Corkscrew can be aimed, and the bike can be damaged WHILE Wario is on it.

I'm fine with this. I'd say change his neutral special to a special grab move where he shakes the opponent, like he shakes enemies in the new Wario Land game.

Donkey Kong: Headbutt becomes his new FSmash, with Barrell Throwing replacing SideB.

For a second there, I read that as Final Smash, instead of Forward Smash....still I'd keep his current forward smash, and just get rid of the headbutt all together.

Diddy Kong: Throws rocks instead of bananas (just so he doesn't throw items already in the game as a move)

Big no. If you really don't want him to have a item for a move (why does DK have barrels there?) then change his down B to something he's used, instead of some generic rock throw.

Dr. Mario: Uses his stethoscope as a chain, and his pills have varying effects (sleep, poison, etc.)

The stethoscope thing doesn't seem like it'd make much sense, but the pill idea could be good.

Roy: Counter becomes replaced with Spire, which is a wall of flame that jettisons out of his upraised sword. His FS would be Eruption, which is an explosion of flame around him that does high knockback.

My major complaint about this though is more directed at Ike, rather than Roy though...

Marth: Speaks English in the NA version. Counter becomes quicker after repeated use.

Umm....all's okay by me? Don't know about the counter thing, but I guess it may be okay....I just don't play Marth that much.

Ike: Has lightning effects instead of fire (to seperate him from Roy). Down B becones Discharge, which is like eruption but with sparks. Neutral B becomes Ion, which is a electric wave that has reflective properties around Ike. Great Aether would be the same, but he finishes off with a lightning bolt instead of a ground slam.

Really, don't change Ike's element moves just because you want Roy back. Heck, why not change Roy's instead of Ike's? And if not that, just get rid of any elemental effects all together, instead of giving him lightning moves.

Pokemon Trainer: Pokemon Change takes less time. One of each starter-type can be chosen.

Huh? What do you mean by that part? Can't you choose the starter type in Brawl? If you mean mix and match different starters from different generations, then that's a big no.

Pikachu: His moves are more anime-styled. His FS becomes the Volt Tackle from the Anime.

Wouldn't that make his FS worse? And he's already pretty anime-styled as it is. Needs more clarification.

Pichu: B Move becomes Charm, which results in the opponent becoming "shieldstunned". Side B becomes Double-Edge which works like quick draw, but quicker and more powerful. Down B becomes Shock Wave, which results in nearby foes becoming entrapped in electricity. (Like Zapdos from Melee, but Pichu ends up with half of the damage of his opponents.) His FS is Volt Tackle from Brawl.

Okay I guess...of course I question why Pichu (along with Doc, Roy, and Mewtwo) are even being considered here, but this is all hypothetical anyways....

Mewtwo: His side B becomes Will-o-Wisp, a blue flame that homes in on nearby foes. His FS would be Pyschic, which causes nearby foes to shoot upwards.

I'd keep his Melee neutral B as it was. I also don't get how his FS would work there...since it seems either very pointless, or very overpowered.

Jigglypuff: Sing lasts twice as long. Side B becomes Protect (which negates knockback) when used on the ground, and Body Slam if used in the air.

Sing needing a longer time of effect is something I agree with. I'd rather keep her Pound move though, instead of Protect/Body Slam.

Lucario: Side B becomes Bone Rush. With Close Combat becoming his New FS.

And how would these work exactly? Its kind of hard to comment on when all you have to go on is a name and a general idea of the effect.

Kirby: Uses the powers available from the series. With "Neutral" having Inhale, Sliding Kick, Hi-Jump, and Plummet as his B, Side B, Up B and Down B respectively.

This doesn't seem like a good way to go, and I don't quite get how you want him to gain his old series powers, unless you're saying he gets say his fire abilities from Mario or something. In either case, he shouldn't go down that path.

DeDeDe: Side B becomes Rex Wheelie, which would work like Wario's Bike. Jet Hammer becomes a spinning move instead of an uppercut. His FS would have Wheelies instead of Waddle Dees.

Don't change his side B like that. The Jet Hammer idea is good though. Keep the Waddle Dees in his FS.

Meta-Knight: Uses standard moves that he actually had in the series. Final Cutter is his Neutral B move if used on the ground, otherwise it's Mach Tornado. His FS would be a giant tornado (like in KSSU)

His FS as it is right now is fine, and his moves are as well, as long as the technical aspects are fixed. Also why are you saying he should get moves he actually had in the series, but then give him Final Cutter?

Mr. Game & Watch: Oil Panic now requires 5 projectiles, but breaks shields and has no startup lag when filled.

I'm not sure how this would really impact his play style, so I won't really comment.

Ice Climbers: If one of the climbers is KO'd, you gain control of whatever Climber is left, regardless of who it is.

This probably isn't a good idea. They would have to be killed twice in a instance like this, which wouldn't be fair.

Link: Has more air-time with his UpB

Fine I guess....

Young Link: Uses his masks.

You mean for transformations, rather than jsut random specails, right? If so, that seems like a bit too much work for a refference to a game that came out so long ago.

Toon Link: Uses Skull Hammer for his Down B, and rides a Deku Leaf with his SideB.

Shouldn'the Deku Leaf be like his Up B or something?

Ganondorf: UpB is now Teleport, NeutralB is Shadow Ball, and Down B is a punch downwards that spikes and has mid-long-range.

I don't quite get why you have to change his Down B like that. I'd also say that giving him a teleport would seem a bit dull, given the several other teleporters.

Zelda/Shiek: Down B takes longer.

I don't see why this needs to happen...

Ness: PSI Teleport is his new UpB. PK Rockin' is his FS.

More teleporting? Bleh. I know you just want to declone him, but you're just giving him a move that others already have. (Unless I'm wrong about how PSI Teleport would work...)

Lucas: PK Sheildoff is his SideB, and PK Ground (which works like DK's headbutt) is his new DownB.

Possibly okay, but I don't know how PK sheildoff would work in this instance..

Captain Falcon: Falcon Punch is twice as powerful. His FS no longer has cinematics.

His FS is fine as it is. The Falcon Punch being twice as powerful maybe a bit much though.

Samus: Falls slower, but can't "Bomb Jump".

Why shouldn't she bomb jump? She can do that in game.

ZSS: Down B, and Neutral B are switched.

...why?

Sonic: Caliber, his sword from Sonic & the Black Knight, becomes his DownB.

Snake: C4 can not be used as a recovery.

C4....you mean the explosive? You mean like Link's bomb recovery?

Pit: UpB can be used again after being hit out of it.

This probably would make him a bit too powerful, wouldn't it?

ROB: Can use more than one gyro at a time.

With his neutral special, I don't see why his is needed.

Fox: Lasers do more damage.

Only if they are slower.

Falco: Uses an Arwing for his FS. Laser can be aimed downwards.

So you mean like a flying Landmaster or something? I don't think that a Arwing would work out well that way. Having it work closer to Snake's FS seems like it would be better.

Wolf: Down B becomes replaced with a counter-type move involving his claws. His FS summons his Star Wolf fleet to bombard the stage.

Fine I guess, though I don't like counter moves.

Any comments on the changes?

You forgot Olimar.

 

[drag0nscythe]

No, but he doesn't have fire in the series either! LOL (Only Roy does)

Oh, well lightning would be fine then.

He forms a bone out of aura which works like a club/staff. You can see this in the anime.

I will have to look before I can make a good judgment.

This was mostly to make it possible for Waddle Dee to have his own slot.[/QUOTE]

The only moves that correspond to what he had in the games are SideB, NeutralB, UpThrow, and . . . . . . everything else was made up.

Oh. Well, some move changes would be good. Similar to what they did to Kirby would be fine. A complete moveset change would be problematic though.

Yeah, but the current one can be sheilded. Imagine an undodgable IKO move.
(For REAL punishment for projectile spammers.)

Then make the move go through shields. Keep the 3 limit though.

Only if CG-ing is still possible in the next game.

CGing? No clue really.

I just find his sideB and downB to be WAY too similar.

This is true. Maybe sonic wind or another move from Sonic adventure would work nicely.

You could make the C4's fall speed faster.

Could work then. I can still see people doing it. Fall really fast with snake would be it then. It would make it harder to do though.

How is my idea any different from yours? LOL

Not to sure. Forget what I said then.

---

And speculating that Ridley would be added at the beginning is not nonsense? Right.

You are trying to say that "Ridley would take to much time to make playable. The game would have to be pushed back. He cannot do it."

Which is nonsense.

If Sakurai says its difficult to add Ridley, then its difficult to do so. He should know that. He's the one who's making the game!

And I guess he is the one that planned every little move out in advance, not ever listening to all the others on the project either.

If Ridley is the ONLY one with a chance... why the support for Dark Samus, Mysterious Black Guy, or anyone from Other M? It seems that people support Ridley (and anyone else for that matter) simply for the sake of a second Metroid character.

Dark Samus was mainly propped because of the anti-rildey crowd. Same goes with everyone else. And people want Ridley playable is fulled by the desire for another playable metroid character. So is tingle, bowser jr, Black shadow, anohter pokemon and another Fire emblem character. What is your point?

You don't really care for the Metroid games? So you are just a poser. You want Ridley simply because almost everyone on the Internet are on the Ridley bandwagon. Its just as bad as wanting Geno in Brawl despite never played Super Mario RPG.

I like the character. There is nothing wrong with that. The world is not just black and white.

You talk like its too easy to just add a character with "a little more effort". This isn't MYM where with "a little more effort", you just come up with how Ridley would work. It might work on paper, but when it comes to actual programming, I'd imagine that its difficult to make Ridley work properly as a viable Smash fighter.

And you act like it takes an act of God to make a character work. Like all programming, one step at a time.

Everyone can work in Smash if you just put "a little more effort." It doesn't mean they would work out very good when you're actually programming them.

Actually, it does. Given time, effort and patience, it would work.

Ridley Defense post? And the goal of that post is to try to convince as many people as possible all over the Internet to start supporting Ridley? If you had to make such a tl;dr post in the first place, it just goes to show how desperate you really are for Ridley.

No. The goal is to stop people from using the same tired arguments that are always used. That is the point of it. One sees these arguements so many times, it is easy to make a list and then go "Look here. It has been covered."

So look there. Your points have been covered.

 

[Wizzerd]

You forgot Olimar.

Ugg, Olimar has one of the worst movesets in the game. All of his attacks are generic slaps with his Pikmin in different directions, and his playstyle ends up being a high-risk high-reward thing that doesn't fit him as a character. >_>

 

[Starphoenix]

Ugg, Olimar has one of the worst movesets in the game. All of his attacks are generic slaps with his Pikmin in different directions, and his playstyle ends up being a high-risk high-reward thing that doesn't fit him as a character. >_>

Really? I thought Gannondorf claims that title...

Also Giygas as a boss would be sick beyond words.

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

How would Samus be the tallest? She isn't a giantess.

6'3 is pretty huge. Mewtwo is 6'7
But i don't know C.Falcon's height.
The average person is 5'7 - 6'0

 

[UberMario]

And what move do you want axed for it? In any case, this change is fine by me if its something like down B.

DownB, but only on the ground.

Does it technically do this a bit in Brawl? In any case, if I were to change it, I'd make it more ike how it works in YI, though that's just me.

No, it makes you LOSE all horizontal momentum.

Why? Just have Perry be her Up Special or something...

I just want to get away from the whole Toad abuse thing.

Big no. If you really don't want him to have a item for a move (why does DK have barrels there?) then change his down B to something he's used, instead of some generic rock throw.

"Barrel" as in the barrels that explode from Donkey Kong, and how is Banana throw not generic?

Wouldn't that make his FS worse? And he's already pretty anime-styled as it is. Needs more clarification.

IT explodes for massive damage in the anime, however it's not "gravity-immune".

I'd keep his Melee neutral B as it was. I also don't get how his FS would work there...since it seems either very pointless, or very overpowered.

I did say side b. It would be an IKO move for anyone that is 6 feet away from Mewtwo.

And how would these work exactly? Its kind of hard to comment on when all you have to go on is a name and a general idea of the effect.

Bone Rush is a long-ranged club. Close Combat works like Triforce Prison.

This doesn't seem like a good way to go, and I don't quite get how you want him to gain his old series powers, unless you're saying he gets say his fire abilities from Mario or something. In either case, he shouldn't go down that path.

But I like his game powers . . . . .

Don't change his side B like that. The Jet Hammer idea is good though. Keep the Waddle Dees in his FS.

Like I said before, it's to make Waddle Dee a possible player.

His FS as it is right now is fine, and his moves are as well, as long as the technical aspects are fixed. Also why are you saying he should get moves he actually had in the series, but then give him Final Cutter?

Meta-Knightmare and Amazing Mirror have him (or his sword in the hands of Kirby) using Final Cutter.

This probably isn't a good idea. They would have to be killed twice in a instance like this, which wouldn't be fair.

Well, I had to think of something to counter the abscence of CGing

Shouldn'the Deku Leaf be like his Up B or something?

I'm pretty sure he can only glide with it, not move upwards.

I don't quite get why you have to change his Down B like that. I'd also say that giving him a teleport would seem a bit dull, given the several other teleporters.

Mostly to declone him.

More teleporting? Bleh. I know you just want to declone him, but you're just giving him a move that others already have. (Unless I'm wrong about how PSI Teleport would work...)

Hint: He uses PSI teleport to enter the fights. His UpB would just have a bigger explosion is all.

Possibly okay, but I don't know how PK sheildoff would work in this instance..

It's a shield-breaker.

His FS is fine as it is. The Falcon Punch being twice as powerful maybe a bit much though.

The cutscene takes too long for what it does.

Why shouldn't she bomb jump? She can do that in game.

Didn't know about that.

. . . why?

Since when does jumping equal press down?

LOL

I couldn't think of anything to seperate Side B from Down B.

C4....you mean the explosive? You mean like Link's bomb recovery?

Yes, but it's too useful in Brawl.

This probably would make him a bit too powerful, wouldn't it?

I suppose . . . . .

Only if they are slower.

But that would make them the same as Falco's.

So you mean like a flying Landmaster or something? I don't think that a Arwing would work out well that way. Having it work closer to Snake's FS seems like it would be better.

Arwing would work like Snake's, but more ammo, more speed, and with less power.

The 'lasers can be aimed downwards' part was aiming at his actual moveset. Where you can shoot downwards if you quickly tap downwards after he pulls out his gun.

Fine I guess, though I don't like counter moves.

OK, just tired of Star Fox characters always having reflectors in Smash.

You forgot Olimar.

*Doh*

Up B is held out until he falls.
He can have 10 pikmin, but they're weaker.
Pikmin Change causes nearby foes to trip.

Also, Neckbeard, I think Falcon is 6'5" and Snake is 6'4".

and 6'3" is NOT that tall.

 

[DekuBoy]

Ugg, Olimar has one of the worst movesets in the game. All of his attacks are generic slaps with his Pikmin in different directions, and his playstyle ends up being a high-risk high-reward thing that doesn't fit him as a character. >_>

.... We are now enemies. You mess with the Olimar you get the flowers!

On a more friendly note can I ask if you have played Pikmin 1 or 2?

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

There are a few changes I would like to make to Ike, but one of the major ones is to replace his Eruption move with a sword slash energy projectile (he can do that with the Ragnell in Radiant Dawn, I'm not making this up).

I would also like Falco to have more decloning from Fox. They may have trained at the same military school, but that doesn't mean that Falco can't recieve more of a decloning (I would change his FS and Up Special).

I would also love to see Micaiah playable in Smash 4, even though lots of people hate her. Think about this: At least she's a better choice than a certain blonde ninja-wannabe in an orange tracksuit with a lame catch phrase.

 

[DekuBoy]

Where have ya been? We've been making sexist jokes while you where gone.

I agree with all your points except Micaiah. I would rather a new FE character.

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

Someone mentioned Bone rush.
Either that or Metal claw would work (replacing force palm).
Metal claw would be pretty much Koopa Claw without the grab, but it'll degrade shields fast (As Metal claw lowers defense).

Bone rush if EVER implemented, would change Lucario's move set completely.
IE;
Lucario has his basic move set.
F-B would activate Bone rush. Bone rush will change the moveset into a more sholin monk-esque fighting style (Lucario is a fighting/steel type) This might be even considered as a transformation. Taking away his Aura ability inexchange for faster fighting and longer range.

UP-B is now Lucario propeling him self up in the air with the bone/aura stick. SIDE-B is Marth's dancing blade. DOWN-B could be a counter. JABS are now like C.Falcon's.

Lucario's Bone rush
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dEIP8TSdJg
^^^Thoughts?? It even kept him airborne for 3 secs

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Where have ya been? We've been making sexist jokes while you where gone.

I agree with all your points except Micaiah. I would rather a new FE character.

I know lots of people hate Micaiah, but lots of people also hated the Ice Climbers, and they've made it to Brawl. Mewtwo was a strong uber Pokemon in the Pokemon series, but in Melee, he was the worst fighter, which means that if Micaiah becomes playable in Smash 4, then she could possibly be the cheapest fighter in the game. She's also a better choice than Cloud and Sephiroph (both of which stink worse than King Hippo's breath (and I apologize to King Hippo, because I don't hate that guy)).

 

[DekuBoy]

What do Cloud and Sepiroth have to do with this conversation?

 

[Pieman0920]

"Barrel" as in the barrels that explode from Donkey Kong, and how is Banana throw not generic?

It causes tripping, that's how. If it wasn't for the technical item, the move would have a unique property that no other move has. A rock throw is just...well a rock throw.

IT explodes for massive damage in the anime, however it's not "gravity-immune".

...So you want some type of explosive version of Marth's FS? In any case, I don't think this really needs to be changed, since Pichu is probably not coming back in.

I did say side b. It would be an IKO move for anyone that is 6 feet away from Mewtwo.

Oh! Sorry about that. And that still seems a bit overpowered to just kill anyone that's too far away. Plus, doesn't that make it kind of hard for Mewtwo to use it? Peope woud go up to him to beat him up and take his Smash Ball, and they wouldn't be punished, since Mewtwo's attack only hurts those who are far away.

Bone Rush is a long-ranged club. Close Combat works like Triforce Prison.

Still don't get Bone Rush...shouldn't it be Bonemerang or something? Close Combat works fine like that...though I still don't know why you need to really give him a new FS, instead of fine tuning it.

But I like his game powers . . . . .

Well then suggest some of his current moves that could be replaced with some of his in game powers I guess?

Like I said before, it's to make Waddle Dee a possible player.

But that's like hoping that a Goomba could be a playable character. Some of thse guys are better off as just generic grunts you know.

Meta-Knightmare and Amazing Mirror have him (or his sword in the hands of Kirby) using Final Cutter.

I've played both of those, yet I don't remember this...I'll take your word on it for right now though...

I'm pretty sure he can only glide with it, not move upwards.

Given a sudden gust of wind, he could float up a bit. (Not much vertical recovery still...mostly all horizontal I'd guess)

Mostly to declone him.

You don't need to declone him completely you know, especially if some of the moves you give him are used by others anyways. Plus, his side B, if used in the air, kind of does the downwards punch.

It's a shield-breaker.

...And? How is it a sheild-breaker? What is the attack?

The cutscene takes too long for what it does.

It only last like 5 seconds tops, and works fine. Plus he's the only one who has it.

Since when does jumping equal press down?

Then make her Down B her Side B....or just get rid of the Down B. Her Neutral B at the very least shouldn't be taken out from its current spot, since that's how most of the projectiles work.

But that would make them the same as Falco's.

Then keep them weak. Fox's weak yet fast lasers are supposed to balance out Falco's stronger yet slower lasers. If you take away one of the flaws, you have to think of how it has to be balanced in comparison to its sister move.

Arwing would work like Snake's, but more ammo, more speed, and with less power.

The 'lasers can be aimed downwards' part was aiming at his actual moveset. Where you can shoot downwards if you quickly tap downwards after he pulls out his gun.

Ahhh, I see. Well, isn't that kind of like ROB's then? In any case I still think that Falco using two lasers at the same time may be a good way to seperate him from Fox.

OK, just tired of Star Fox characters always having reflectors in Smash.

Think of something from their games then? How about a grenade? Snake may have them, but it still hasn't been done to death as much as counter attack have.

*Doh*

Up B is held out until he falls.
He can have 10 pikmin, but they're weaker.
Pikmin Change causes nearby foes to trip.

10 Pikmin seems like a bit much. I also think it may be better to be able to keep on using Up B multiple times, rather than just having it constantly out. Down B coud be changed altogether into a new move as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

What do Cloud and Sepiroth have to do with this conversation?

I used those two because most Final Fantasy games, such as FF 2-11, are overrated. Why is it so popular?

 

[DekuBoy]

Yeah, but we were talking about Micaiah.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Yeah, but we were talking about Micaiah.

Micaiah may be weak in Radiant Dawn, but she has more diversity than Marth and Ike, as well as Roy, whom Pieman mentioned is liked mostly due to visual appeal (still don't get it; need explaination, please.). I'll admit Roy has some non-clone moveset potential. And a new FE game may be likely, but it isn't promised, and even if it is, promises sometimes become broken.

And Pieman says I have problems with women. Not true. It depends on the woman.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Most magic users in Radiant Dawn is very complex to use, but they can preform numbers of moves from their games and not made up ones. But still, Micaiah can be very useful, but you have to baby her in most of part one, part three she is one of the best healers, but you have to equip her with an item that levels you up faster, part four ending if you have a good level with her she's godlike. ☆

 

[kirbywizard]

☆ Most magic users in Radiant Dawn is very complex to use, but they can preform numbers of moves from their games and not made up ones. But still, Micaiah can be very useful, but you have to baby her in most of part one, part three she is one of the best healers, but you have to equip her with an item that levels you up faster, part four ending if you have a good level with her she's godlike. ☆

It took me like three playthroughs to figure out how good she could be

 

[Clownbot]

That post is pretty much pointless.

How Micaiah would play has no determination on her inclusion.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

That post is pretty much pointless.

How Micaiah would play has no determination on her inclusion.

Yeah, but it helps; Micaiah would have little chance of becoming a clone fighter. Being the most recent lord helps her chances. She may be hated, and by a lot of people, but popularity isn't the only thing that decides SSB4 stuff.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeah, but it helps; Micaiah would have little chance of becoming a clone fighter. Being the most recent lord helps her chances. She may be hated, and by a lot of people, but popularity isn't the only thing that decides SSB4 stuff.

She's hated by a lot of people? Well, that's news to me.

Speaking of popularity, how has Starfy's first localized game been doing so far (off-topic, I know, but I'm running out of things to say)?

 

[Wizzerd]

Yeah, but it helps; Micaiah would have little chance of becoming a clone fighter. Being the most recent lord helps her chances. She may be hated, and by a lot of people, but popularity isn't the only thing that decides SSB4 stuff.

Micaiah is completely outclassed by Roy already, seeing as more people played Melee than any Fire Emblem game and are familiar with him, and there's a very high probability of a new lord that will trounce them both.

EDIT: I'm not so sure about Starfy. He has enough games, but they were Japan-only for a long time and they never sold all that well.