[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[SmashChu]

KumaOso, the mainstream audience are the majority of customers who usually recognize the playable characters the most. When I said "playable characters", I meant the playable characters who were playable in their native franchises, regardless of canon games and spin-off games. If you looked at the Brawl roster, you'd notice that Zelda, Sheik, and Ganondorf are the only playable characters who were never playable in their native franchise. That means playable characters (like Zero Suit Samus) take priority before unplayable characters (like Ridley).

No, it's just that the playable ones are more popular and are the first string guys. There is no magic rule. I wish people would stop trying to find one.

The mainstream audience are the majority of customers who are largely ignorant of the history of the characters and their native franchises. Case in point, Wario. Today's audience would most likely recognize Wario from WarioWare games and Mario spin-off games, not Wario Land games. It seems that the Wario fans, the minority, are the only ones who have a problem with the lack of any Wario Land representation.

So people are stupid then. No, I think most people know more then you give them credit for.

Oh, and the fans will always feel like they were screwed over. They are never happy with what they get. Metroid fans were asking for a second Metroid character so Sakurai gave them Zero Suit Samus, what did they do? BAWWW and say Sakurai should have added Ridley instead. Zelda fans were asking for TWW Link so Sakurai gave them Toon Link, what did they do? BAWWW and say Sakurai should have decloned Toon Link. When Wario fans were asking for Wario, Sakurai gave them Wario, what did they do? BAWWW and say Sakurai should have added Wario Land representation. When tourney fans were asking for a balanced gameplay, Sakurai removed the glitches that caused wavedashing and L-canceling, what did they do? BAWWW and say Sakurai ruined the balance. When Smash fans were asking for a new game, Sakurai gave them Brawl, what did they do? BAWWW and say Sakurai shouldn't make the next game. No wonder Encyclopedia Dramatica calls it Super Smash Bros. BAWWW!

No, your right, but it's "BAWWWWW" because of competitive players whining all the time (and BOY did they whine).

 

[DekuBoy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QorwsXUXR8

The most manly song of ALL TIME. I present Captain Falcon's Theme Tune.

 

[GTA_Hater_331]

I can't follow this shutty conversation at all. Nobody seems to be talking happily about the Smash Bros series anymore.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QorwsXUXR8

The most manly song of ALL TIME. I present Captain Falcon's Theme Tune.

Speaking of F-Zero GX music, I'd like to see Samurai Goroh's theme tune make it in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw31SOeCTQc.

Music with sword slash sound effects in it? That's bad***.

Nobody seems to be talking happily about the Smash Bros series anymore.

You're telling me. I'm happily willing to casually talk about that series with warm friendliness, though.

 

[Clownbot]

I can't follow this shutty conversation at all. Nobody seems to be talking happily about the Smash Bros series anymore.

That's because some of the posters here

Spoiler

such as myself

take things too seriously.

Spoiler

This post is 100% serious.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I take Smash seriously, but I also want to believe that we will get creative characters, some character modifications and unexpected movesets.

I am hoping that Sakurai will put diddy with dixie. The Diddy/Dixie combo is a great idea.
So is having Link transform into Wolf Link.
And Ganondorf having an ability to pull out his sword (giving him two movesets.)
and Jiggs being put in a trainer with Pichu and Gardivour.

and Goemon being playable.

 

[Clownbot]

I take Smash seriously, but I also want to believe that we will get creative characters, some character modifications and unexpected movesets.

I am hoping that Sakurai will put diddy with dixie. The Diddy/Dixie combo is a great idea.

Not after Diddy appeared single in Brawl.

So is having Link transform into Wolf Link.

Not unless Wolf Link makes a reappearance.

And Ganondorf having an ability to pull out his sword (giving him two movesets.)

I don't see the appeal of Ganondorf having a sword. He can still have an uncloned moveset using magical powers, maybe a sword for ONE of his specials, and a few other minor attacks. It's a lot more fitting (at least, it seems so for me) that Ganondorf use a magic/etc.-based moveset than a sword-based one (EVEN IF IT'S ONLY VIA SWITCHING). Smash has enough sword-users, anyway.

and Jiggs being put in a trainer with Pichu and Gardivour.

....Which would just clutter the roster. I don't see any appeal behind this idea at all.

and Goemon being playable.

Everything in this post is a hell of a lot less likely than Paper Mario making a playable appearance.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Not after Diddy appeared single in Brawl.

Because things don't change. Sakurai wanted the pairing but choice against it for some reason. Rumor was that other people on the development crew did not want diddy paired. Who knows. It is possible that they can be paired.

Not unless Wolf Link makes a reappearance.

Then wait and see.

I don't see the appeal of Ganondorf having a sword. He can still have an uncloned moveset using magical powers, maybe a sword for ONE of his specials, and a few other minor attacks. It's a lot more fitting (at least, it seems so for me) that Ganondorf use a magic/etc.-based moveset than a sword-based one (EVEN IF IT'S ONLY VIA SWITCHING). Smash has enough sword-users, anyway.

Well. YOU did not see the appeal, but many others have. I like his brawl moveset. He needs to keep it. He also can use his sword because many other fans also like the idea of him using his sword. Give him a move that changes that and then give him some magic moves with his sword moveset.

I think smash has enough punchers. We need no more.

....Which would just clutter the roster. I don't see any appeal behind this idea at all.

Again. YOU do not see the appeal and no, it will not clutter the roster. That is just a mental concept many people have forged to justify not having another trainer.

Everything in this post is a hell of a lot less likely than Paper Mario making a playable appearance.

Paper mario is less likely to be playable then you think. He is a fan favorite of this board. Not everywhere.

 

[Clownbot]

The whole "maybe YOU don't see the appeal" thing could be said for you, just in reverse. In the end, it just goes in circles.

But seriously, there's no logic or connection behind your choices for a female PT, and yes, it would clutter the roster. It takes away the originality and idea of the original PT.

In the real world, less people know Goemon than Paper Mario. The only proof I have is that I had never heard of Goemon before I came here, and I had known Paper Mario ever since his first game came out.

 

[drag0nscythe]

The whole "maybe YOU don't see the appeal" thing could be said for you, just in reverse. In the end, it just goes in circles.

Then don't try and argue that it is not possible or argue that your opinion is th right one.

But seriously, there's no logic or connection behind your choices for a female PT, and yes, it would clutter the roster. It takes away the originality and idea of the original PT.

Choices.
Playable
Jiggs.
Pichu.

Not playable
Gard

Gen 1 => Jiggs
Gen 2 => Pichu
Gen 3 => Gard

All were popular at some time.

There was no originality for the first PT to begin with. They just did a three way transformation. It was Zelda - Sheik - Oh hell, lets add another one.

It is not clutter because it would end up being 6 pokemon character slots. That is not what I call clutter. It is a better concept then allowing all of them to be DLC.

Download Pichu, Mewtwo for an extra cost. Let them take up space on the main page. That would be complete clutter.

In the real world, less people know Goemon than Paper Mario. The only proof I have is that I had never heard of Goemon before I came here, and I had known Paper Mario ever since his first game came out.

There is no point to this statement except to start a flame war. It has no real point to the statement I said at hand. which was Paper mario's outside popularity. Off this board, it is MARIO.

 

[Clownbot]

Then don't try and argue that it is not possible or argue that your opinion is th right one.

That's not what I meant at all.

I don't feel like clarifying it right now, I'm too lazy.

Choices.
Playable
Jiggs.
Pichu.

Not playable
Gard

Gen 1 => Jiggs
Gen 2 => Pichu
Gen 3 => Gard

All were popular at some time.

Note the part where you said "at some time".

There was no originality for the first PT to begin with. They just did a three way transformation. It was Zelda - Sheik - Oh hell, lets add another one.

So you actually expected them to have PT as a playable character, but instead of actually battling he uses his pokemon via switching. <_<

It is not clutter because it would end up being 6 pokemon character slots. That is not what I call clutter. It is a better concept then allowing all of them to be DLC.

Download Pichu, Mewtwo for an extra cost. Let them take up space on the main page. That would be complete clutter.

This post convinces me that you don't understand the meaning of the word "clutter".

There is no point to this statement except to start a flame war. It has no real point to the statement I said at hand. which was Paper mario's outside popularity. Off this board, it is MARIO.

It proves that Paper Mario is more likely than Goemon.

Spoiler

I REALLLLY need to work on taking things less seriously.

 

[Wizzerd]

Because things don't change. Sakurai wanted the pairing but choice against it for some reason. Rumor was that other people on the development crew did not want diddy paired. Who knows. It is possible that they can be paired.

Diddy is alive and kicking in the Donkey Kong series. Dixie is a dead character revived for the sports games. Pairing them would be great for Dixie and far more than she deserves, but HORRIBLE for Diddy, who was one of the most deserving additions to Brawl. He would have been even better in Melee since the DK series was more alive then. Like Clownbot said, now that he's been in a game alone he's likely to keep being alone. I would love to see a source on the developement team not wanting them paired as well. Oh yeah, it's a rumor, so there is no source! Ever!

Then wait and see.

This is priceless. Instead of using logic to see that Wolf Link will never return (Wolf Link is a one-shot -> one-shots never return, even as a cameo, in the Zelda series -> Wolf Link will never return, not even as a cameo + cameoing would not even do anything for his very low chances) we're expected to wait a year or two for Zelda Wii. In the meantime, you can include a character purely out of bias! What fun!

Well. YOU did not see the appeal, but many others have. I like his brawl moveset. He needs to keep it. He also can use his sword because many other fans also like the idea of him using his sword. Give him a move that changes that and then give him some magic moves with his sword moveset.

I think smash has enough punchers. We need no more.

I support Ganondorf getting an original moveset in SSB4, whether it be through magic, a sword, the Trident of Power or any combination of the three, but I think this is faulty logic. If we want to preserve Ganon's old moveset we can dump it on Black Shadow, who doesn't even have much potential in the first place. Giving Ganondorf a sword "transformation" would be horribly clunky. Looking at Brawl, all existing transformations have vastly different playstyles than their counterparts. We have Squirtle, the lightweight speedster, Ivysaur, the ranged but somewhat slow middleweight, and Charizard, the ranged, powered but slow heaviweight. We have Zelda, a slowish, ranged character with nice power, and Sheik, a speedy close-ranged fighter with little power. We have Samus, the powerful, ranged floaty heaviweight, and Zero Suit Samus, the doujin fodder quicker, nimbler middleweight. Ganondorf with a sword would have a playstyle pretty much identical to regular Ganondorf, and there would be absolutely no incentive to switch. In fact, swordless Ganondorf would probably see little to no use, as sword Ganondorf would have better range, priority and power having a sword. Letting him switch would do nothing but deprive decloned Ganondorf of a Down Special.

And punching is like, the commonly-used way of fighting, and it's expected that we would get far more hand-to-hand than disjointed fighters.

Again. YOU do not see the appeal and no, it will not clutter the roster. That is just a mental concept many people have forged to justify not having another trainer.

No, you're the one crafting useless reasons. From what I've seen you only want a second trainer to lower Jigglypuff's status, and are putting in Pichu and Gardevoir just to insult Jigglypuff. A second trainer is a horrible idea, and Jigglypuff will stay eternally in Smash.

Paper mario is less likely to be playable then you think. He is a fan favorite of this board. Not everywhere.

I would love to see a source on this. Besides, you support Goemon. I mean really.

Also, I just thought of something. Link and Zelda in Brawl are all composites of seperate characters, since all of the Links and Zeldas are different characters (except in direct sequels), as all of the Links and Zeldas are unique. Young Link is Link younger, and is actually confirmed to be Link (unlike Paper Mario). Smash has never been afraid to mix up alternate versions.

 

[Pieman0920]

Mah Opinions~

Female PT: This isn't that great idea. For all the transforming/double/tripple characters, each has their own speciific gimick in how they do what they do. Ice Climbers are both there at once, Zelda/Sheik are a double team that transforms with a special, PT is a tripple team that transforms with a special, and Samus/ZSS are a double team that transforms with a final smash. Adding in another PT with the same transformation method would upset this trend, as well as add in way too many Pokemon (We would have at least 6 Pokemon, not including the Pokemon that are on their own, like Pikachu)

Ganondorf's Moveset: I don't think this will change much. One or two special moves will probaby be changed. Give him the reflection ball attack, and maybe one sword special, and I think that would be good. The Black Shadow idea also doesn't seem fair to the F-Zero fans, since its basically disregarding a overall better character, at the expense of a different series.

Paper Mario: In my personal opinion, he's got a better chance than Bowser Jr, though I think both could get in. As I said many times, I think that we would get a new version of Mario before we get a new version of Bowser. And yes I know Bowser Jr. isn't Bowser, but given the fact that they are so simmilar to each other in apperance (heck, look at Baby Bowser) and share basically the same name outside of two letters, I think he really would count as a different version of sorts. Given the Paper Mar series popularity, and the uniquness of the chacter and the concepts that could be used with him, I think he has a very solid chance.

 

[drag0nscythe]

That's not what I meant at all.
I don't feel like clarifying it right now, I'm too lazy.

Then lets leave it at that.

Note the part where you said "at some time".

Jiggs is and was popular. (Not as much as she used to be)
Pichu was popular during the gold / silver age.
Gardivour has a weird fetish popularity that seems to be moving strong,

So you actually expected them to have PT as a playable character, but instead of actually battling he uses his pokemon via switching. <_<

Unexpected does not make it unique.
Dr. Mario was unexpected.

This post convinces me that you don't understand the meaning of the word "clutter".

No, I just think we are looking at two different scopes of clutter.

It proves that Paper Mario is more likely than Goemon.

Spoiler

I REALLLLY need to work on taking things less seriously.

Which was not the point I was making.
I said I would LIKE To see goemon. Not that I expected him.
and yes, you need to work on taking things less seriously.

Diddy is alive and kicking in the Donkey Kong series. Dixie is a dead character revived for the sports games. Pairing them would be great for Dixie and far more than she deserves, but HORRIBLE for Diddy, who was one of the most deserving additions to Brawl. He would have been even better in Melee since the DK series was more alive then. Like Clownbot said, now that he's been in a game alone he's likely to keep being alone. I would love to see a source on the developement team not wanting them paired as well. Oh yeah, it's a rumor, so there is no source! Ever!

I posted a source on these things a while ago. Someone else had posted it also. Go find it. Oh, and Dixie was revived for DK: Jungle climber and Diddy kong racing and...

This is priceless. Instead of using logic to see that Wolf Link will never return (Wolf Link is a one-shot -> one-shots never return, even as a cameo, in the Zelda series -> Wolf Link will never return, not even as a cameo + cameoing would not even do anything for his very low chances) we're expected to wait a year or two for Zelda Wii. In the meantime, you can include a character purely out of bias! What fun!

Like you and Tingle.

I support Ganondorf getting an original moveset in SSB4, whether it be through magic, a sword, the Trident of Power or any combination of the three, but I think this is faulty logic. If we want to preserve Ganon's old moveset we can dump it on Black Shadow,

NO. That is the worst Idea I have ever heard. Why have black shadow? Because he can have Ganondorfs moveset. NO.

who doesn't even have much potential in the first place. Giving Ganondorf a sword "transformation" would be horribly clunky. Looking at Brawl, all existing transformations have vastly different playstyles than their counterparts. We have Squirtle, the lightweight speedster, Ivysaur, the ranged but somewhat slow middleweight, and Charizard, the ranged, powered but slow heaviweight. We have Zelda, a slowish, ranged character with nice power, and Sheik, a speedy close-ranged fighter with little power. We have Samus, the powerful, ranged floaty heaviweight, and Zero Suit Samus, the doujin fodder quicker, nimbler middleweight. Ganondorf with a sword would have a playstyle pretty much identical to regular Ganondorf, and there would be absolutely no incentive to switch. In fact, swordless Ganondorf would probably see little to no use, as sword Ganondorf would have better range, priority and power having a sword. Letting him switch would do nothing but deprive decloned Ganondorf of a Down Special.

And who says giving him a draw sword move would be clunky? It is as bad as the Ridley debates. It is balancing. Sword Ganondorf could have weaker attacks, slightly faster moves and what ever would be needed to balance.

And If ganondrof punchs like falcon and swings a sword like Nightmare from SC, they are not playing similar.

And punching is like, the commonly-used way of fighting, and it's expected that we would get far more hand-to-hand than disjointed fighters.

No, you're the one crafting useless reasons. From what I've seen you only want a second trainer to lower Jigglypuff's status, and are putting in Pichu and Gardevoir just to insult Jigglypuff. A second trainer is a horrible idea, and Jigglypuff will stay eternally in Smash.

NO!
You have no clue why I want a second trainer and from this post, you may never grasp it. It is not to insult Jiggs.

I would love to see a source on this. Besides, you support Goemon. I mean really.

That people know Paper mario as Mario? Come on. Read headlines and watch reviews. it is usually "Mario has returned again to the ...." That is usually the line they always give it.
"Mario is back in this new RPG"
"Mario is back on the baseball field."
"Mario is back, but this time, he has rhythm."

Also, I just thought of something. Link and Zelda in Brawl are all composites of seperate characters, since all of the Links and Zeldas are different characters (except in direct sequels), as all of the Links and Zeldas are unique. Young Link is Link younger, and is actually confirmed to be Link (unlike Paper Mario). Smash has never been afraid to mix up alternate versions.

No. In Brawl, Link was from TP. Zelda was a composite in a way.

 

[Starphoenix]

And everything was going peacefully with the music...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

And everything was going peacefully with the music...

Well, it just goes to show you. One can't change the subject without someone else completely ignoring it and starting World War III.

Individual opinion is such a double-edged sword, rather.

 

[drag0nscythe]

And everything was going peacefully with the music...

We need the speed version of the Takamaru game theme. That is awesome music.

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

Already mentioned, because thats how awesome it was.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXSSI_3Jv28

Needs to be boss music of course.
It might even fit Ganondork.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

We need the speed version of the Takamaru game theme. That is awesome music.

Agreed. :bigthumbu Bonus points if Manabu Maniki does it.

Edit: Oh, and by the off-chance that Suda 51 asks for Travis to be in SSB4, music from No More Heroes needs to be used. Zako and its variations are awesome.

 

[DekuBoy]

Sakurai said that he would put Takamaru in if he had another game, or something like that.

... Does Captain Rainbow count?

 

[Starphoenix]

Sakurai said that he would put Takamaru in if he had another game, or something like that.

... Does Captain Rainbow count?

Considering it sold horribly in Japan, probably not; his game did okay when it was re-released for the GBA in Japan however. I think the best thing that could happen for him is if his game is translated and published for the American/European VC.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Sakurai said that he would put Takamaru in if he had another game, or something like that.

... Does Captain Rainbow count?

Either another appearance or a re-release of his game (which there was on GBA) might do the trick, in my opinion.

It helps that the re-release of Nazo no Murasamejo sold better than the re-release of Kid Icarus, though.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Agreed. :bigthumbu Bonus points if Manabu Maniki does it.

Edit: Oh, and by the off-chance that Suda 51 asks for Travis to be in SSB4, music from No More Heroes needs to be used. Zako and its variations are awesome.

Theme song in the sword shop is a must then. I love that song.

As for captain rainbow. I really wish they would bring it to the US. They can change it so it would work, or they could pull a conker's bad fur day on us.

Shock sell it.

 

[Clownbot]

Jiggs is and was popular. (Not as much as she used to be)
Pichu was popular during the gold / silver age.
Gardivour has a weird fetish popularity that seems to be moving strong,

So Gardivoir should get in because people have a fetish for her?

*sigh*....

No, I just think we are looking at two different scopes of clutter.

6 characters from the two PTs....

Plus Pikachu and a fifth gen rep (which are just about guarantees), which makes eight characters.

Mario probably won't get eight characters in SSB4, and since they're always ahead/on equal terms with Pokemon in rep size (along with the fact that Mario is the mascot of Nintendo), I doubt Pokemon will.

Like you and Tingle.

Wizzerd displays logic on his arguments for Tingle.

As a matter of fact, even people here who have shown a hate for Tingle say that he's the most likely candidate for a new Zelda character.

NO! You have no clue why I want a second trainer and from this post, you may never grasp it. It is not to insult Jiggs.

Enlighten me as to why you think it's necessary to add another trainer.

Spoiler

To the people upset about the arguments going on here: I apologize for wanting to continue debating. If you don't like it, the best thing to do is ignore it.

 

[say10]

Earthworm Jim!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Earthworm Jim!

It could be possible, since the SNES version of Earthworm Jim and the Sega Saturn version of Earthworm Jim 2 came out in Japan, not to mention that the Genesis version appeared on the Virtual Console there, too. Might be beneficial for the poor, old Earthworm, who doesn't get any games these days.

Doesn't seem likely to happen, though. But hey, one can dream...

 

[DekuBoy]

Ahh, Clownbot you keep arguing. When the dust settles we can all have cake.

Anyway I have something interesting. Now that Project Sora and Nintendo are working on a secret project, maybe (since Sakurai is the creator) a character from this game will be in.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Anyway I have something interesting. Now that Project Sora and Nintendo are working on a secret project, maybe (since Sakurai is the creator) a character from this game will be in.

That's a little early to count your chickens before they hatch, no? We have no idea what the characters will look like, so maybe it's best to wait and see before determining if a character from that project is adequate for Smash.

 

[Wizzerd]

I posted a source on these things a while ago. Someone else had posted it also. Go find it. Oh, and Dixie was revived for DK: Jungle climber and Diddy kong racing and...

Looking at Sir Ilpalazzo's list, the only thing you have ever posted as evidence, Diddy and Dixie is mentioned nowhere. Diddy Kong Racing was a spinoff, and Dixie was barely important at all in Jungle Climber, only being an NPC and only playable in the online.

Like you and Tingle.

I would like Tingle. I support Tingle because I like Tingle. I consider Tingle likely because he is likely, not because of bias. He's a hell of a lot more likely than your beloved Wolf Link, at least.

NO. That is the worst Idea I have ever heard. Why have black shadow? Because he can have Ganondorfs moveset. NO.

Care to give me a reason why not instead of just saying that it's a horrible idea? Besides, I said if we want to preserve it, and we don't *need* to do that, though it would be nice.

And who says giving him a draw sword move would be clunky? It is as bad as the Ridley debates. It is balancing. Sword Ganondorf could have weaker attacks, slightly faster moves and what ever would be needed to balance.

They could be balanced but not very well. It wouldn't make sense for a sword to give less power, range or priority. It can be done, but would there be any incentive to switch at all?

And If ganondrof punchs like falcon and swings a sword like Nightmare from SC, they are not playing similar.

You don't understand the definition of playstyle. Whether or not Ganondorf punches or swings his sword, there is going to be a very similar effect, a slow powerful move (with the sword having more range/power/priority). Animations =/= playstyle. The way moves work together to make the way a character plays = playstyle. Read the Takamaru in my sig for an example of playstyle.

NO!
You have no clue why I want a second trainer and from this post, you may never grasp it. It is not to insult Jiggs.

Then explain why, so I can pick apart your "reasoning."

That people know Paper mario as Mario? Come on. Read headlines and watch reviews. it is usually "Mario has returned again to the ...." That is usually the line they always give it.
"Mario is back in this new RPG"
"Mario is back on the baseball field."
"Mario is back, but this time, he has rhythm."

What was the point of this? This only proves that Nintendo thinks this, not fans.

 

[drag0nscythe]

So Gardivoir should get in because people have a fetish for her?

*sigh*....

Hay. Popularity. That was what was in question.

6 characters from the two PTs....

Plus Pikachu and a fifth gen rep (which are just about guarantees), which makes eight characters.

Mario probably won't get eight characters in SSB4, and since they're always ahead/on equal terms with Pokemon in rep size (along with the fact that Mario is the mascot of Nintendo), I doubt Pokemon will.

Brawl has:
Pokemon: Pikachu, jiggs, Lucario, Squ, ivy, Char
Mario: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser.

Already outnumbered. Even if we toss in wario, it is still outnumbered. The only option would be to toss yoshi in as well. Combine that with the wanted Bowser Jr. and Paper mario and we have

Mario - Luigi - Peach - Bowser - Bowser jr -Wario - Yoshi - Paper Mario
Pikachu - Lucario - Mewtwo - Char - Ivy - Squ - Jiggs - Pichu - Gard - new gen

Only two more, which is not much.

Enlighten me as to why you think it's necessary to add another trainer.

I want to see every character make a return in the next game in some way. Dr. M can be a costume. He would work as that. Roy could make it as a costume of marth also. Young link is toon link, no worries. Pichu and Mewtwo are what is left. Pichu cannot be a costume of Pikachu. Structure is to different. For him to return, he has to be playable on his own. He is not worth a single slot. a trainer is his best bet.

That means that to get him in, there would have to be another trainer. That will not work because then it would be to many new characters. Two new movesets and pichu, not going to happen.

Jiggs, while popular, has lost steam. Given that and the fact that she is not as important to smash as she once was, a small downgrade to a trainer slot, with a special taunt allowing her to keep her original moveset almost in tact would make her original as a trainer pokemon.

Givne hacking, people could still play as her on her own, and given I like that idea, a way to support it would be nice also.

If we put jiggs and Pichu in a trainer, we need one more character. Before Brawl, many wanted Gardivour playable. Almost every board I went to suggested her. Make her the third rep and we have a viable working character who has three seperate gens. It helps cover all gens of pokemon, gets all cut characters back into the game and only has a small compromise.

SSB4 would have only 2 new pokemon movesets to create. The rest would be ported from else where.

Pikahu, Lucario, Mewtwo, Jiggs, char, ivy and squ all have movesets from melee and brawl.
Pichu would be similar to pikachu, but a small revamp would be in order. Nothing to big.
Gard and the new gen would be the only ones that would have to be built from the ground up.

That is why I want jiggs to be in the trainer.

 

[DekuBoy]

Agg. Pokemans give me headaches.

Heres my two cents: Put Arceus in. He apparently 'created' the Pokemon universe. He is now the most important character. DISCUSSION OVER.

Now let us discuss... Tingle.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

arceus is a pokemon you can only get by hacking (I don't think you can get him legit in platinum, unless you have some special event one)

Pikachu and Jiggz are the most important, since they are the mascots (pikachu to a much higher degree, though)

 

[Wizzerd]

Now let us discuss... Tingle.

Tingle is the only character besides Link himself to ever be playable in a Zelda game, and he has four of them. Tingle has ridiculous popularity where it matters the most. Tingle's only drawback is that he has an American hatebase, but that's a non-issue because if you hate a character you can just never use them and if you like them it can make the game, and most people won't even know who is and will have no preconceptions to hate him, AND Japan is where popularity matters the most anyway.

END OF STORY

Spoiler

No, seriously, Tingle is a hot-button topic and debating him is a BAD IDEA cuz' of all of the haters who never even played Rosy Rupeeland, an epic game and one of my favorite Zeldas.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Tingle is the only character besides Link himself to ever be playable in a Zelda game, and he has four of them. Tingle has ridiculous popularity where it matters the most. Tingle's only drawback is that he has an American hatebase, but that's a non-issue because if you hate a character you can just never use them and if you like them it can make the game, and most people won't even know who is and will have no preconceptions to hate him, AND Japan is where popularity matters the most anyway.

END OF STORY

Spoiler

No, seriously, Tingle is a hot-button topic and debating him is a BAD IDEA cuz' of all of the haters who never even played Rosy Rupeeland, an epic game and one of my favorite Zeldas.

*Repeats arguments about 'mattering most' is not a viable point*
*Has seen this before and sees that it is still a bad way to support the character*

Okay. done here.
Seriously though, fix your points for support. They are flimsy. Use the world, not just 'where it matters most'.

you have a viable point with hating a character, but it is not good enough to support him being in. Don't go yelling stats and me. I heard it already.

 

[DekuBoy]

Oh sorry. I might get Tingle's game since I actually live in Europe.

Then let us discuss... SAKI!

 

[drag0nscythe]

Oh sorry. I might get Tingle's game since I actually live in Europe.

Then let us discuss... SAKI!

May have a chance, but I would say it is slim.
I would put him in the box with Starfy, Andy, Ray101 and Isaac. He has the same as their chances.

 

[Clownbot]

He has lower chances since he's not the protagonist of S&P2.

EDIT: Actually, Isaac is in a pretty similar situation.

 

[kirbywizard]

The only reason people don't want Tingle in is because they know he would be even better then Metaknight.

Oh sorry. I might get Tingle's game since I actually live in Europe.

Then let us discuss... SAKI!

I envy you @_@

 

[Big-Cat]

Care to give me a reason why not instead of just saying that it's a horrible idea? Besides, I said if we want to preserve it, and we don't *need* to do that, though it would be nice.

A character shouldn't be added just to take a moveset. Starfox has been suffering from Shoto-itis as I call it. Basically, it's Ryu, Ken, and Akuma: Similar special moves, but fight differently. Do you want F-Zero to wind up with the same fate?

They could be balanced but not very well. It wouldn't make sense for a sword to give less power, range or priority. It can be done, but would there be any incentive to switch at all?

Ideally, sword/trident Ganondorf should have longer range, faster moves, and less power due to it not being infused with magic. As for an incentive, certain moves could be combo'd into each other, but it requires switching in between styles. There can also be moves that are advantageous in certain situations, but are exclusive to each style.This can make Ganondorf into true technical character.

You don't understand the definition of playstyle. Whether or not Ganondorf punches or swings his sword, there is going to be a very similar effect, a slow powerful move (with the sword having more range/power/priority). Animations =/= playstyle. The way moves work together to make the way a character plays = playstyle. Read the Takamaru in my sig for an example of playstyle.

There's more to an attack than its animation. A sword, or any long-range weapon, user has a disjointed hitbox. This means that that the sword is not part of the character that can be damaged. Compare a stab to Ganondorf's Sparta kick. A person can safely poke with a sword attack and not risk a counterattack. However, the kick is part of the character and is subject to one.

 

[Wizzerd]

*Repeats arguments about 'mattering most' is not a viable point*
*Has seen this before and sees that it is still a bad way to support the character*

Okay. done here.
Seriously though, fix your points for support. They are flimsy. Use the world, not just 'where it matters most'.

you have a viable point with hating a character, but it is not good enough to support him being in. Don't go yelling stats and me. I heard it already.

Why? Sakurai has shown us that Japan is where popularity matters the most, by the inclusion of many Japan-only characters and by the fact that he's friggin' Japanese. Also, I wouldn't say that my arguments are flimsy when you're the one who supports Wolf Link because he might have a cameo in Zelda Wii, despite the fact that one-shots in the Zelda series never cameo again and cameos are insignificant. Then you supported Gardevoir because of fanart.

A character shouldn't be added just to take a moveset. Starfox has been suffering from Shoto-itis as I call it. Basically, it's Ryu, Ken, and Akuma: Similar special moves, but fight differently. Do you want F-Zero to wind up with the same fate?

I don't support him just to take a moveset, I support him because F-Zero is neglected in Smash and he's very, very popular, especially in Japan.

Ideally, sword/trident Ganondorf should have longer range, faster moves, and less power due to it not being infused with magic. As for an incentive, certain moves could be combo'd into each other, but it requires switching in between styles. There can also be moves that are advantageous in certain situations, but are exclusive to each style.This can make Ganondorf into true technical character.

But the problem is that they wouldn't have a huge difference in playstyle. Sword Ganondorf would be slightly tweaked, but not enough to differentiate himself from a slow powerful character. Due to the fact that transforming leaves you open to taking a fully charged fsmash to the face, people would stay as one version for the entire match.

There's more to an attack than its animation. A sword, or any long-range weapon, user has a disjointed hitbox. This means that that the sword is not part of the character that can be damaged. Compare a stab to Ganondorf's Sparta kick. A person can safely poke with a sword attack and not risk a counterattack. However, the kick is part of the character and is subject to one.

I know that, but the difference makes little difference in playstyle.