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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Sovereign

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I figured you guys would nail me on the "Mewtwo is a bonus" thing. It was too late, however. v_v

Anyway, with VJ being in Tatsunoku wouldn't that put Sakurai's eye on him, in the least? I would think since he's being placed on a Wii game, that it would allow for him to be placed on SSB4. Hell, TvC even has his 3-d render ready for SSB4 to use. His moveset wouldn't be that hard, although I have my own ideas for one.

Standard A: Standard Jab: 2%
Standard A 2x: A Second Jab: 2%
Standard A 3x: Roundhouse kick: 6%

Ftilt: Side Kick: 9% (Can be tilited up or down)
Dtilt: Sweep Kick 8% (Sets up for aerials)
Utilt: Swift Uppercut: 10% (Sets up for aerials)
Dash Attack: Sliding Kick: 8% (Horizontal knockback)

Nair: Sex Kick: 11%(Start up), 5%(Ending)
Fair: idk, help...
Uair: Backflip Kick: 12%(Start up), 8%(Mid), 4%(Ending, which semi-spikes)
Dair: Frontflip Kick 11% (Spikes)

Special B: V Boomerang: 7%(No Charge)-2% (On return), 17% (Charged)- 3%,3% (On return)
SideB: Dragon Punch: 10% (No Charge, Fire stun), 25%(Charged, Fire stun, Disjointed hitbox)
DownB: Dragon Kick 12%(In air it attacks at a 45 degree angle, and can spike from the start, but has horizontal knockback near the end) *Gotta go play Red Hot Rumble and see what it is on the ground, lol.*
UpB: Flaming Vortex: 2%, 2%, 2%, 3%, 7%(Final hit does the greatest knockback, Fire stun, Can be angled in all directions going up)

I'll add more, later, including Frame start up and ending lag. Just tell me what you think. There's hope for Joe, despite what some may think. I'm keeping my faith in him. Also, if you want, edit what you think is overpowered or under powered.
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

Smash Lord
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I could totally see VJ in smash 4...

if he wasn't capcom. It would be awesome if Nintendo forgave Capcom, and they let capcom be the third third-party in smash.

It wouldn't surprise me if VJ and megaman were considered. Its just, after capcom told nintendo they'd keep games exclusive to them, then turned around and released em for multiple platforms, nintendo got a little pissed.
At least, thats what I heard.
 

trev1776

Smash Rookie
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Jul 11, 2009
Messages
1
Ok well I mostly made this account so i can make a post here, in SSB4, I've been calling it SSBR, super smash bros. rumble as i couldn't think of many other synonyms with the word fight.

Anyways, the main reason why I made this was so I could talk about some of the characters that I want to see in the next game. I will only be posting special attacks including final smash. I'll let nintendo worry about the normal attacks lol.

First and most importantly megaman.



MEGAMAN:
Normal Special: Mega Buster, like samus, mewtwo and lucario. Megaman charges up a blast of energy which does more damage the longer it is charged. Once fully charged the charge is stored until used.

Side Special: Dash attack (Horrible at naming), from the megaman x series, megaman dashes foward leaving an afterimage of himself behind him. Like Fox and Falco's with less lag time.

Down Special: Z-Sword, slashes directly in front of him with Zero's green sword.

Up Special: Rush Jet. Rush appears under Megaman allowing him to fly up, down, to the left or the right. Lasts about 2 seconds.

Final Smash: Megaman puts on his ultimate armor and performs the ultimate attack. Beams of energy cover the screen going up an down doing about 40-60% dmg to all enemies, if unblocked.



ZERO:
Normal Special: Mega Buster, like Megaman's but not chargable just a single ball of energy.

Side Special: Dash attack, like megamans.

Down Special: Z-Sword combo, a 4 combo sword attack.

Up Special: Air pushes from Zero's boot launching Zero into the air. Like Marth's.

Final Smash: Not really sure, can't think right now i had one earlier.

Shadow:
Normal Special: Homing attack, like sonic.

Side Special: Spin Dash, like sonic.

Down Special: Chaos Spear, throws a spear of yellow energy in the direction he is facing, works like Pit's arrows as in he can control the direction it goes after the attack is launched.

Up Special: I want to say spring jump but I also wanna think of something cooler for shadow :p.

Final Smash: Chaos Control, Shadow Stops time for about 10 seconds. During this time Shadow is free to run around and deal damage to his opponents. After the 10 seconds are up shadow will go back to where he started the final smash, snap his fingers and all damage will be dealt. Enemies (and allies) can not move during this.

This is all i can think of right now.
 

Pieman0920

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Pieman, I have to agree with these two guys.

The whole deserving argument is really stupid, Sakurai obviously doesn't give a **** if a character is deserving or not (unless of course they are a completely ridiculous choice, and I mean COMPLETELY ridiculous). Diddy Kong got in, and when Brawl began development what did Donkey Kong have? Donkey Konga? I can't remember but whatever it was it obviously didn't do too well, but still, Diddy somehow got in didn't he? :ohwell:

And there is plenty of room on the roster for a new Donkey Kong rep. So even if they aren't "deserving of one" (****ty argument) they can still get one.

Immah still use the word "rep" because it works better than anything else so far. (And they are representatives of their series, so meh.)

And Diddy did have more than Donkey Konga before Brawl....quite a bit more. While there wasn't much inbetween Melee and Brawl for him, he still had a good deal to work with, and even stared in more than one game.

In any case, I still wouldn't bank on the DK series getting a new character because it isn't that popular at this time. If the series was more popular, it would have more games currently, would have better sales, and all of that jazz. Thus I can only think that Sakurai's randomness may help the DK series get a unnecessary third character, but given how it took so long to get Diddy, I kind of doubt that.
 

Spydr Enzo

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Immah still use the word "rep" because it works better than anything else so far. (And they are representatives of their series, so meh.)

And Diddy did have more than Donkey Konga before Brawl....quite a bit more. While there wasn't much inbetween Melee and Brawl for him, he still had a good deal to work with, and even stared in more than one game.

In any case, I still wouldn't bank on the DK series getting a new character because it isn't that popular at this time. If the series was more popular, it would have more games currently, would have better sales, and all of that jazz. Thus I can only think that Sakurai's randomness may help the DK series get a unnecessary third character, but given how it took so long to get Diddy, I kind of doubt that.
Can you give some examples of Donkey Kong titles that actually did well and starred Diddy Kong during the time around the start of Brawl's development? I'd love to se some of these mythical games you are speaking of.

There you go again. Time. Age. People like you over-analyze these types of things a bit too much and we end up with stupid reasons like "they're not popular at this TIME" and "they're too OLD." Sakurai obviously doesn't give a **** about time or age. If they are popular, or were once extremely popular, that is enough. Donkey Kong Country went down in history as one of the most popular game series of all time. It was a major hit in the SNES days.

And what does the fact that it took Diddy three games to appear have to do with this at all? What is the reasoning behind this argument?

Finally, bank on the idea of a third Donkey Kong rep, a NECESSARY third rep. It'll happen. Trust me.
 

Fatmanonice

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I could totally see VJ in smash 4...

if he wasn't capcom. It would be awesome if Nintendo forgave Capcom, and they let capcom be the third third-party in smash.

It wouldn't surprise me if VJ and megaman were considered. Its just, after capcom told nintendo they'd keep games exclusive to them, then turned around and released em for multiple platforms, nintendo got a little pissed.
At least, thats what I heard.
There's no bad blood between Nintendo and Capcom, it's all just rumors. People said this about the Megaman collection, Megaman 9, and Resident Evil 4 but none of these are true.

As sad many times before, Megaman is by far Capcom's leading person (even though, sale wise, Resident Evil is actually their strongest franchise) and, at this time, it's extremelly unlikely that any of the third parties will be given more than one rep. It also doesn't help that Viewtiful Joe is now a dead franchise and that, Clover, the company who created the series (and Okami) went under about 3 years ago.
 

lordvaati

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Can you give some examples of Donkey Kong titles that actually did well and starred Diddy Kong during the time around the start of Brawl's development? I'd love to se some of these mythical games you are speaking of.

There you go again. Time. Age. People like you over-analyze these types of things a bit too much and we end up with stupid reasons like "they're not popular at this TIME" and "they're too OLD." Sakurai obviously doesn't give a **** about time or age. If they are popular, or were once extremely popular, that is enough. Donkey Kong Country went down in history as one of the most popular game series of all time. It was a major hit in the SNES days.

And what does the fact that it took Diddy three games to appear have to do with this at all? What is the reasoning behind this argument?

Finally, bank on the idea of a third Donkey Kong rep, a NECESSARY third rep. It'll happen. Trust me.
Diddy Kong Racing for N64 and DS.

though I'm Kinda rooting for K.Rool or Dixie.
 

ProfPeanut

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Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
727
Fhytrha

Character Moveset:

Tetra

The captain of a crew of pirates and an important character in The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (and sadly, just a plot device in Phantom Hourglass). A quick and witty fighter, she is the holder of the Triforce of Wisdom in this fork of the Zelda timeline. Little is known about her such as where did she come from, what did she want with the God's Pearls, and why doesn't she have her own game yet?

Sadly, fan-kind has yet to recognize her awesomeness to warrant her inclusion as a playable character, which is incidently the codename of this moveset (They also seem to fail to recognize the opportunity to recreate a battle between a ninja and a pirate, but that's besides the point). So without further ado...

Entrance: Appears in an upwards puff of grey cel-shaded smoke. (Read: not an explosion, like Toon Link's) Trademark wink, then pulls out a sword from her scabbard.

Note: Tetra’s sword is quite scimitar-esque, but it has a unique handle; it’s a rotatable ring within the hilt that allows her to spin it quite quickly yet stop it at any moment. It also attaches to her grappling hook, which she can then throw forward with a spinning blade of extreme multi-hitting on the hook. For the future, we’ll refer to this as the grapple-saw.

Run Speed: B+
Jumps: 2, B+
Weight: C
Drop Speed: B (higher grade = faster drop)
Crawling
Wall Jump


Taunt 1: Trademark wink + sound. You simply cannot beat that one.
Taunt 2: Gives that look that says "Is that all you've got?"
Taunt 3: Throws the Pirate Charm upward, catches it and puts it back in pocket.


Attacks:
A: Simple slash forward to the left.
AA: Left slash, then right slash.
AA, U-Tilt: Slash, slash, slices diagonally upwards. Tetra’s normal combo stops at AA, but can be continued with a U-Tilt…
AA, U-Tilt, F-Tilt: ….and a fourth move as well, where she throws the grapple-saw. This has good range, but is set back by the few moments it takes to set it up.
Dash-A: Deals a twin slash, first with a spin-slash, then a downwards strike. Jumps back afterwards.
Ledge-Attack: She's airborne as she pulls herself up, but she also throws a grappling hook outwards. this operates much like her side-B (see below)


Tilts:
F-Tilt: She flips back, dodging any incoming attacks. Upon landing, she throws the grapple-saw forward.
D-Tilt: In that general Legend of Zelda crawling animation, she stabs forward at the ground. This has little range, but can trip.
U-Tilt: She flips her sword upwards, so it spins in the air above her before landing back in hand. Good damage.


Aerials:
Nair: Does a double spin-slash, which has priority and damage. This can be performed quickly after her Up-B.
Fair: Appears to hold her hand back before swinging the grapple-saw upwards in an arc. This covers the region in front of her, and has poor landing lag.
Bair: Deals a quick strike behind her. This is a rather generic-working Bair; hits fast in order to do it multiple instances.
Dair: She throws the grappling hook (no sword) downwards. Anyone caught by it gets thrown skyward. So basically, it’s a Dair that juggles.
Uair: The grappling hook gets thrown upwards, pulling anyone struck by it down. So inversely, it’s a Uair that spikes.


Grabs:
Grab-Attack: Pummels with the hilt.
F-Throw: Throws the enemy forward before rushing and slashing quickly.
B-Throw: Loads the foe into cannon, points it behind her, then shoots.
D-Throw: Throws the foe to the ground while she jumps above. Performs an arc-slash that strikes anyone below.
U-Throw: Shoves the opponent into the catapult, then launches him forward. Pretty far range.


Smashes:
F-smash: Performs two quick wide slashes (left, right) before dealing the finishing spin-slash.
D-smash: Prepares to sweep the ground around her with her blade. Tilting up upon release will allow her to strike the area around her head instead.
U-smash: Charges up the cannon (which is unloaded), but facing the floor. On release, she points it upwards, blasting anyone hit by the gunpowder explosion from the barrel.


Specials:
B: Cannon. She pulls out a miniature cannon loaded with a cannonball, which she can then charge or fire immediately. There’s quite some end-up lag and Tetra will go into freefall if it’s used in air, so it isn’t spammable. Charging allows for more power, speed and range, but the attack will go off by itself upon max charge. The cannon can be titled quickly by up to, say, 75 degrees upwards and downwards. Cannonballs will explode upon impact of either the ground or any enemy character. Reflectors can bounce it.

Side-B: Grappling Hook. Pulls it out (a bit of lag here) the grappling hook and throws it forward. This special can also be charged so that it would reach forward. If it misses, there will be end lag proportionate to how far it went. (Read: you’re a sitting duck for a second or two.) If it hits, it will generally pull the opponent towards Tetra (not necessarily grab). But if the opponent is holding an item, the Grappling Hook will instead snatch the item and bring it back to Tetra for her to use. In such a case, you can also hold B when the hook comes back to instead keep swinging it above her head (item in tow) and to throw it forward very far and quickly upon release. This move can be used as a tether recovery.

Down-B: Parry. A sort of counter move, she moves into position so that it looks like she's charging her forward smash. This activates on a variety of instances: If an attack connects during this timeframe, she then leaps above the opponent (taking no damage or impact) and knocks the foe from behind, stunning the opponent. The stun time is generally small, but will be somewhat longer the stronger the activating attack was (i.e., PK Fire will get a counter-stun of about 1 second while Warlock Punch yields about 2.5 seconds.) If the opponent dodges behind her during this animation, she instead strikes behind her, dealing a good deal of damage (The damage dealt generally does not change). If the opponent attacks with a body-spin attack, (Mach Tornado, Olimar's U-Tilt, Whirling Fortress, R.O.B.'s D-smash) she hops on the foe and balances on the top with her sword's handle until the ride's over, wherein she hops off leaving the foe footstool jumped. Damage is dealt equal to half the amount that the spin-attack should be dealing.

Up-B: Catapult. The ship catapult pops out of nowhere; she hops on, then launches off. Flight distance is a bit less than the length of Battlefield. After pressing up-B, you can tilt the analog stick to adjust the direction. (i.e. tilting forward will result in a long hop while tilting backwards will be a high leap with little forward distance. Yoshi's Egg Toss is a good reference.) If it’s used in the air, the catapult will fall downwards ala Sonic's Up-B, hitting anyone in the way. Tetra can use her aerials and any other attacks a second later (As mentioned earlier, Nair can be used more quickly.)


Final Smash: Blades of Wisdom
On activation, (when time slows for everyone else) Tetra does a short sword flip (which by the way is glowing great golden) before dealing a powerful slash. This has the range of Luigi’s Up-B sweetspot, but insta-kills.

From the slash, three horizontal golden triangles (that are spinning very fast) shoot out. Anyone caught in one is pretty much stuck. The triangles have boomerang behavior; after shooting off, they’ll come back to Tetra, but instead whizz past her to do a round trip. Each triangle can deal 50% on their own to anyone who takes in every strike. After 6 round trips, the triangles will stop where they float (they’re still spinning) then return to Tetra’s sword. There’s no huge knockback in this last part, but any unlucky foes caught in the spinning will be brought to you, so you can charge a Smash to finish it.


Victory Pose 1: Crosses arms and does trademark wink. Ownage.
Victory Pose 2: Throws sword upwards, catches and gives a “too easy” expression
Victory Pose 3: Makes two feint slices and does a mock imitation of Link's sword sheath.
Defeat Pose: Just clapping her hands. No need to elaborate here.

---------------

Well, that's that. Hope people here like it.
 

Pieman0920

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Can you give some examples of Donkey Kong titles that actually did well and starred Diddy Kong during the time around the start of Brawl's development? I'd love to se some of these mythical games you are speaking of.
Diddy stared in several games back several generations ago, and around the end of the N64 days, kind of dropped off the map. In the Mid to late Gamecube/Early Wii era (and portable aproximations) where Brawl took most of its content from Diddy finally got back into the picture by showing up heavily in Mario sports games, as well as becoming playable again in DK games. Having games developed at the time of Brawl's development though isn't a factor at all, and is actually something that can kill your chances in the water, so I don't know where you're going with that.

There you go again. Time. Age. People like you over-analyze these types of things a bit too much and we end up with stupid reasons like "they're not popular at this TIME" and "they're too OLD." Sakurai obviously doesn't give a **** about time or age. If they are popular, or were once extremely popular, that is enough. Donkey Kong Country went down in history as one of the most popular game series of all time. It was a major hit in the SNES days.
I never said anything about characters being old. A old character has higher chances if they have had consistant games throughout the console generations. But, what I am saying is that basing a game character's chances on the popularity they had over 10 years ago is faulty. Just because they were popular then, doesn't make it so now, and as I said before, a comparison to retro franchises that get a reboot in Brawl is inapt due to the fact that the DK series already has two characters, rather than one. Speaking of Brawl, if we are too assume that the next game's content is chosen as it was in Brawl, then odds are that any new DK series content will be either based around games that come out between now and then, or the original Donkey Kong games. If that's true, then the DKC series will be passed over again, like it was in Brawl.

And what does the fact that it took Diddy three games to appear have to do with this at all? What is the reasoning behind this argument?
I'm just saying that given Sakurai's trends, he adds quite slowly to the DK series. Thus if popularity can't help them get a new character, then its unlikely Sakurai will just decide to let one pass through anyways.

Finally, bank on the idea of a third Donkey Kong rep, a NECESSARY third rep. It'll happen. Trust me.
No it won't. Trust me.
 

Isidro25

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
57
Of course, all of these arguments will perish the moment a drunken Sakurai messes up with SSB4's roster selection ;)
 

ToiseOfChoice

Smash Ace
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Diddy stared in several games back several generations ago, and around the end of the N64 days, kind of dropped off the map. In the Mid to late Gamecube/Early Wii era (and portable aproximations) where Brawl took most of its content from Diddy finally got back into the picture by showing up heavily in Mario sports games, as well as becoming playable again in DK games. Having games developed at the time of Brawl's development though isn't a factor at all, and is actually something that can kill your chances in the water, so I don't know where you're going with that.
Quick thing I wanna point out, Diddy started appearing in Mario spin-offs in 2003 with Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour and Mario Kart: Double Dash!!, which I wouldn't exactly call "late GameCube/early Wii." Pretty sure the lack of Donkey Kong titles in general after DK64 (1999) was due to Rare being acquired by Microsoft in 2001. Donkey Konga was the first non-Rare title and that came in 2004, which Diddy also starred in.



I never said anything about characters being old. A old character has higher chances if they have had consistant games throughout the console generations. But, what I am saying is that basing a game character's chances on the popularity they had over 10 years ago is faulty. Just because they were popular then, doesn't make it so now, and as I said before, a comparison to retro franchises that get a reboot in Brawl is inapt due to the fact that the DK series already has two characters, rather than one. Speaking of Brawl, if we are too assume that the next game's content is chosen as it was in Brawl, then odds are that any new DK series content will be either based around games that come out between now and then, or the original Donkey Kong games. If that's true, then the DKC series will be passed over again, like it was in Brawl.
You might have missed this post I made, but it pretty much explains why that reasoning doesn't quite work.

Short version: Star Fox is in a terrible rut (worse than the one you think DK is in) and gets more of those precious "reps" than DK or F-Zero for no seemingly good reason aside from Sakurai's own preferences. This sorta plays back to Melee too, since you can't argue Star Fox was a bigger thing than Donkey Kong in 2001.


I'm just saying that given Sakurai's trends, he adds quite slowly to the DK series. Thus if popularity can't help them get a new character, then its unlikely Sakurai will just decide to let one pass through anyways.
Let's look at the growth between series thus far:

Mario ......... +2 / +3 / -1 (±0-1)
Donkey Kong ... +1 / ±0 / +1
Zelda ......... +1 / +4 / ±0
Metroid ....... +1 / ±0 / +1
Yoshi ......... +1 / ±0 / ±0
Kirby ......... +1 / ±0 / +2
Star Fox ...... +1 / +1 / +1
Pokemon ....... +2 / +2 / +2 (+4-2)
F-Zero ........ +1 / ±0 / ±0
Mother ........ +1 / ±0 / +1
Fire Emblem ... xx / +2 / ±0 (+1-1)


Does any of this seem like a trend to you? Star Fox, sure. But let's break it down by games:

64: All series have one rep except Mario and Pokemon, no Fire Emblem yet
Melee: Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon have large additions to their series, Star Fox has an addition, Fire Emblem pops up with two characters, everyone else stays the same
Brawl: Mario loses a character, Zelda stays the same, Pokemon loses its Melee characters for even more characters, Kirby gets two characters, Fire Emblem loses one but gains another, and everyone except Yoshi and F-Zero get a new character

If there was a trend, we'd get this:

SSB4: Mario and Zelda stay the same, Pokemon and Fire Emblem do... something, Kirby doesn't grow, F-Zero gets two characters, everyone else gains a character (except Yoshi, sorry guy)

See how that works? In 64, everything was mostly even. In Melee, a few series gained lots of characters but most stayed the same. In Brawl, every series that didn't grow in Melee had an addition (plus Star Fox) except Yoshi and F-Zero. The exceptions seem to be Pokemon and Fire Emblem.

That's how it would work if it were a trend. But that's some wacky trend, isn't it? Why does Star Fox keep growing? Why so much Zelda in Melee? Why so much Kirby in Brawl? What makes Pokemon and Fire Emblem special?*

Maybe there is some kind of trend, but it's not the constant you suggest it is. Especially when we don't know the context behind his choices.


*We can't assume anything about new Pokemon or new Lords since the Roy and Mewtwo thing is unprecedented. If Ike and Lucario leave, then we'll understand how SSB5 works. Right now it's still kinda in the air, especially since FE12 and Gen 5 don't exist yet and those two were supposed to return anyway.
 

Big-Cat

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I don't think there's any trend involved in each series getting a certain amount of characters. Heck, I don't think there's much in who gets in besides popularity and if that character can bring something new to the table (doesn't explain Ganondorf and Wolf though).

I'd also like to say this for the umpteenth time:

STOP USING THE WORD "REP"! THIS ISN'T A NINTENDO CONGRESS! SALES AND AGE DON'T MEAN ANYTHING!
 

Mit

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Messages
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Location
Southeast Michigan
I think the future of a lot of series' will also determine the characters they get. Enzo your list doesn't seem to take into account what games might come out in the future, and seems to be mostly based off of what we know now (which I guess would indeed make it accurate).

As far as Zelda goes, characters like Midna I think are out as it's likely she won't be returning anytime soon, but the next Zelda game for Wii could be much bigger than Twilight Princess, and maybe even introduce some new characters who become very popular. I also think Link's design will be based off the one in this game (which is awesome, big & tall Link for the win :3 )

This also goes for Mario to an extent, although that's already been pointed out. If Rosalina becomes a more prominent character she could be viable, although I think she would need to show atleast an ounce of aggression for her to be viable, or else she'll sit in the same boat as Animal Crossing characters and Miis.

I agree mostly with what Enzo has stated about Donkey Kong. I don't think further reps are quite as likely unless of course the series turns around and releases a new adventure game. Right now I think the most likely characters are K. Rool or a Diddy/Trixie combo, but the Diddy/Trixie combo isn't that new, and K. Rool would just be them pulling for scraps for more characters/villains to add in. However if a new Donkey Kong adventure game gets released (DO IT Nintendo), I think their chances skyrocket.

I think Metroid Other M could play a decent role in future Metroid reps. If the game becomes largely successful, and has some viable characters in it, we could very well see a new Metroid rep. It doesn't look like it's going to make Ridley any more viable than he is now with how ENORMOUS he is in Other M, but I think if Dark Samus is once again included, her chances will go up by a lot, especially if Other M is a success. There could also be some kind of new prominent characters introduced.

If StarFox gets revived anytime soon it could also see new reps depending on the game. I really think Command played atleast a small part in getting Wolf into Brawl, especially since his design was mostly based off of his appearance in that game (as were the other Fox characters). If the new game features Krystal in her tribal apparel in any context, I think it makes her viable. Right now however, I don't see her as that viable, as she just wears normal pilot outfit clothing and acts as a pilot. If Star Fox Adventures didn't get her into Brawl, I don't think it's going to get her into SSB4 either.

Pokemon's future was referenced already. It'll definitely play a part in what Pokemon characters appear. And to people saying it doesn't look like there will be a 5th generation of pokemon, you must be out of your mind.

Fire Emblem is a biggie. It seems most people are just assuming Ike will be in SSB4, but I don't think that's the case, unless they're really looking to expand Fire Emblem's presence in Smash Bros. It's pretty likely that we'll see atleast one more new Fire Emblem game before the release of SSB4, and if it has a likable, prominent new protagonist, I'd bet on him being included more than Ike, just as Roy and Ike were included as the newest Fire Emblem reps of their time. If they want to expand Fire Emblem's presence though, I could see Ike returning (hopefully with his badass Radiant Dawn design), and maybe even Roy or Eliwood. I hope Marth gets his aesthetic design from his recent DS remake as well.

Pikmin definitely won't see any new reps as of now, but no one seems to have brought up that Pikmin 3 is in development. Who knows who will appear in that game? If a prominent, likable character is included, they could be viable for SSB4.


Even with all this, though, it seems SSB4 could never rival the amount of new content included in Brawl. The only way I think they could achieve that is by including a wide variety of third party characters (5-10 characters), giving them a more substantial presence. I can only hope they do this :D
 

Isidro25

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^Well thought post. I agree with your point on how the future will certainly influence SSB4's possible roster. However, this is not a given; Metroid was the franchise with most development bewteen Melee and Brawl, yet the final product doesn't reflect this much. Also, I think SSB4 is certainly capable of surpassing Brawl's new content quantity.

Brawl certainly has a lot of room for improvement.
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

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Even with all this, though, it seems SSB4 could never rival the amount of new content included in Brawl. The only way I think they could achieve that is by including a wide variety of third party characters (5-10 characters), giving them a more substantial presence. I can only hope they do this :D

yeesh. the thought of 5-10 third parties is kind of scary. I'd hate to see them take a huge chunk of the roster like that.

Of course, it would really all depend. There are a lot of third parties that are hardly viewed as such, like Geno. I think even as far as Rayman really shouldn't be considered third party anymore, given that 100% of raymans recent success is entirely because of nintendo.

I'd like to see Rayman, Megaman, Geno, Viewtiful Joe, and maybe another sonic character (knuckles or shadow.)
I think it'd be safe with them. That already adds at least 4 stages, and countless Assist Trophies.
 

Spydr Enzo

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Diddy stared in several games back several generations ago, and around the end of the N64 days, kind of dropped off the map. In the Mid to late Gamecube/Early Wii era (and portable aproximations) where Brawl took most of its content from Diddy finally got back into the picture by showing up heavily in Mario sports games, as well as becoming playable again in DK games. Having games developed at the time of Brawl's development though isn't a factor at all, and is actually something that can kill your chances in the water, so I don't know where you're going with that.
You mentioned Mario Spin-off games. I don't know if you've noticed, but we're talking about Donkey Kong games, not Mario Spin-off games. And I said THE START of Brawl's development, because the roster was the first thing decided, except for Sonic. So if Diddy was decided at the start of Brawl's development when there really were no great Donkey Kong games out, according to you and a few other people, then why did he get in? This is your reasoning for another DK rep to not make it, so if Diddy did in this same situation why can't Dixie or K. Rool?

I never said anything about characters being old. A old character has higher chances if they have had consistant games throughout the console generations. But, what I am saying is that basing a game character's chances on the popularity they had over 10 years ago is faulty. Just because they were popular then, doesn't make it so now, and as I said before, a comparison to retro franchises that get a reboot in Brawl is inapt due to the fact that the DK series already has two characters, rather than one. Speaking of Brawl, if we are too assume that the next game's content is chosen as it was in Brawl, then odds are that any new DK series content will be either based around games that come out between now and then, or the original Donkey Kong games. If that's true, then the DKC series will be passed over again, like it was in Brawl.
Was Pit popular now? Were the Ice Climbers? How about R.O.B.? Game & Watch? And how old were they? I'd say well over 20. How popular were they? No where near as popular as Donkey Kong Country or some of his following games. I'm using retro characters because its the same situation, because their games weren't even a mainstream series like the Donkey Kong games were/are, and they still got recognition, although they only need one. Donkey Kong, being a once EXTREMELY popular (and still doing okay, yet not too well) series and a mainstream series, plus a character and series recognizable by most people makes it 100% possible for a new Donkey Kong rep.

I'm just saying that given Sakurai's trends, he adds quite slowly to the DK series. Thus if popularity can't help them get a new character, then its unlikely Sakurai will just decide to let one pass through anyways.
You over-analyze way to much. There is no formula to who and when Sakurai will add to the roster, it just turned out that way. Look at things more simply, this isn't as complicated as you are making it.

Take a look at ToiseOfChoice's post, its a great post that will help me prove my point a bit. Thank you ToiseOfChoice.

I don't think there's any trend involved in each series getting a certain amount of characters. Heck, I don't think there's much in who gets in besides popularity and if that character can bring something new to the table (doesn't explain Ganondorf and Wolf though).

I'd also like to say this for the umpteenth time:

STOP USING THE WORD "REP"! THIS ISN'T A NINTENDO CONGRESS! SALES AND AGE DON'T MEAN ANYTHING!
Brilliant post KumaOso. Thank you for converting my thoughts perfectly into words, I don't know why I didn't do it myself earlier, I guess I just couldn't think of a short way to put it. I might consider putting this post, or at least a portion of it, into my sig.
 

ScoobyCafe

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I mentioned before that I'm not a trend follower for I don't believe in them. What tends to look like a trend is often just the mind finding order in chaos and randomness. There's no trend, there's no order. Very little if not anything is guaranteed when it comes to choosing characters for Smash Bros.

yeesh. the thought of 5-10 third parties is kind of scary. I'd hate to see them take a huge chunk of the roster like that.
I'd love that. I'd love it because it opens up the doors for characters who probably didn't have a prayer of appearing before.

Of course, it would really all depend. There are a lot of third parties that are hardly viewed as such, like Geno.
I'm gonna literally shake my head and lmao if people still think Geno has "virtually" no chance of appearing after reading ToiseOfChoice's post. That's just blatantly showing opposition for the sake of showing opposition.

I think even as far as Rayman really shouldn't be considered third party anymore, given that 100% of raymans recent success is entirely because of nintendo.

I'd like to see Rayman, Megaman, Geno, Viewtiful Joe, and maybe another sonic character (knuckles or shadow.)
I think it'd be safe with them. That already adds at least 4 stages, and countless Assist Trophies.
For me: Megaman (Capcom), Black Mage (SE), Geno (who'd have the mushroom icon), and perhaps Klonoa (Namco).

Goodness, think of the stage possibility if Black Mage gets in. And Klonoa? He's awesome, just so awesome. :chuckle:
 

WheelOfFish

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Isn't Ridley a little... big to be a playable character? Like 5 times bigger than Ganondorf?

I still don't get why Geno would/should be in any SSB. He's an obscure character from one Mario game. He's not even a recurring character in the series.
 

kirbywizard

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Fire Emblem seems like the series that is hard to choose for certain reps.

-Ike seems like a show in to stay in the next SSB4 mainly due to his high popularity and his main role in two very popular fire emblem games, that were also part of two large game consoles (gamecube and wii). I still hate Ike with all my heart though :ohwell:

-Marth will most likely stay, he was the main and only lord in the first fire emblem game and even had a sequel.

-Roy, I have no idea how he even got into melee. I mean he only did appear in one game. It was amazing he even got into melee. Fire Emblem Sword of Seals was the first hand held Fire Emblem game so I guess that counts for something. His Melee appearance is what I believe gives him a better chance then some other fire emblem lords.

-Elliwood, Roys father that appeared in Fire EMblem 7. The game that takes place before Roys game , so about 20 years before the events of Sword Of Seals. Elliwood was the main lord of the fire fire emblem game to be released outside of Japan. Sadly I feel Roy has a better chance.

-Lyn, no we have to have her in SSB4 because she is a girl :ohwell:. (I kid of course). Lyn was one of the three main lords in Fe7. The other two being Hector and Elliwood. Her very original sword play would give for an interesting move set, yet she will most likely not get in before Elliwood and Roy. Fun Fact : Can be the mother of Roy if she has enough Support with Elliwood.

-Hector The third lord in FE7; he fights with a strong and powerful axe. He is most likely one of the best lords in the entire Fire Emblem series, well the ones I played :D ( Fe6-F10). Like Lyn he won't get in before Roy or Elliwood.

-Michiah, One of the main lords for Fire Emblem radiant dawn. She fights using light magic and can become one of the best magic users in the entire game. Yet we already have Ike, and he could already easily represent both RD and Path Of Radaince. She could easily make a very good assist trophy.

-Siglud the main lord from Fire Emblem 4 ( which I still have not been able to play yet *sniff*). Fire Emblem 4 is said to be one of the Holy Grail for Japanese Only Fire Emblem Games. FE4 was the first Fire Emblem Game to producer Skills that you later see in games such as Radiant dawn. It introduced the all and might weapon triangle . This game is very diffrent compared to most fire emblem games. The main thing I believe that brings down Siglud is that he is japanese only character. BUt if the game gets released for virtual console in america as it was released fro virtual console in japan. I can see his chances going significantly up.

Now for Stages. I found the castle siege a good stage for the fire emblem series. It gave off three of the main generic areas you would see in a fire emblem game. I think one more stage for the series would be enough. The stage would compose of three to four areas. Now I would not even thing about putting any main areas from certain endgames throughout the fire emblem world. The four or three main areas would be certain terian the is found in most fire emblem games. Such as the desert ( which is an annoying area to fight in), a forest (usually found in most maps, mountains.

A new fire emblem lord may get into the next smash. I think two fire emblem games tops would come out by the next fire emblem game. I find to see how popular the lords are and the games themselves to see if it would be put into the next smash. I would rather see older fire emblem lords then new ones being put into the next smash. But hey you never know.

As for an assist trophy. I would go Oliver :laugh:
 

Pieman0920

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Is Smashboards acting screwing for anyone else? These weird glitches are getting annoying.

You mentioned Mario Spin-off games. I don't know if you've noticed, but we're talking about Donkey Kong games, not Mario Spin-off games. And I said THE START of Brawl's development, because the roster was the first thing decided, except for Sonic. So if Diddy was decided at the start of Brawl's development when there really were no great Donkey Kong games out, according to you and a few other people, then why did he get in? This is your reasoning for another DK rep to not make it, so if Diddy did in this same situation why can't Dixie or K. Rool?
Those spinoff games still show how popular a character is, and at the time of development (I guess you're reffering to 2005?) he had shown up in a lot of them, as well as several DK games, and quite frankly despite the fact that they were less popular, the series still had enough signifiance and popularity to warent the second character. But that's it.



Was Pit popular now? Were the Ice Climbers? How about R.O.B.? Game & Watch? And how old were they? I'd say well over 20. How popular were they? No where near as popular as Donkey Kong Country or some of his following games. I'm using retro characters because its the same situation, because their games weren't even a mainstream series like the Donkey Kong games were/are, and they still got recognition, although they only need one. Donkey Kong, being a once EXTREMELY popular (and still doing okay, yet not too well) series and a mainstream series, plus a character and series recognizable by most people makes it 100% possible for a new Donkey Kong rep.
As I said before, the retro characters are retro characters, and quite frankly can't be compared, because they are instances of a older games getting one character rather than getting three. In addition to that, their series didn't continue on like how the DK series has, so its still not comparable.


You over-analyze way to much. There is no formula to who and when Sakurai will add to the roster, it just turned out that way. Look at things more simply, this isn't as complicated as you are making it.
Yeah, its not really that complicated. The characters so far have been either majorly recognizable characters, important lead characters, and a few odd ball picks, particularly in regards to SF. The problem now is that the extremely recognizable characters are dwindling out, and so you basically have important lead characters or less than recognizable series, or second/third banana characters from established series. There really is no good way to predict how the developers of the next game will deal with this problem, but I just don't think that they will fall back on a series that's considerably past its prime, just because it had some nice days in the past, because the series is quite frankly well off at this time in terms of its current two characters.


Take a look at ToiseOfChoice's post, its a great post that will help me prove my point a bit. Thank you ToiseOfChoice.
I don't see what I have to comment in there though...Its just bare bone looks at what characters are added into series with little consideration about the status of the series or the status of the characters.
 

Mit

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Isn't Ridley a little... big to be a playable character? Like 5 times bigger than Ganondorf?
Don't light that fire again man, it's not worth it.

You would think so, yes, and I agree with you. I don't think Ridley would look as natural sized down in Smash Bros. Especially with all of his recent appearances being of the gigantic Ridley type.

To anyone bringing up Bowser: You cannot deny that Bowser is much more easily downsized, as he's appeared in many, MANY games at a height comparable to other characters in the Mario franchise, mainly all the sports and spinoff titles, and older retro games.

The best point you have to argue Ridley's size, if you're thinking about it: His appearance in Melee's opening cinematic (please do not bring up his appearance in the original NES Metroid). In Melee's opening cinematic he was shown at a pretty small size, likely to fit him in to the small room Samus was shown battling him in for the short scene. He didn't look too out of place, but I don't think people at Nintendo see him now as a character who should be shown that small, hence his appearance in every single recent Metroid game: the GBA games, the Prime series, his appearance in Brawl, and his appearance in Other M (he's huge in all of them).

However, that is only what I think, and they could very well still scale him down to fit, I just don't think it's terribly likely, as some other people also seem to think.
 

Pieman0920

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In regards to Sigurd being a representative of Fire Emblem, wouldn't his chances be hurt a great deal by Cecile? Isn't he the main character of that game?

Also given Sakurai's comments of wanting to avoid Japan only characters if possible, wouldn't it be more likely for someone ike Lyn or Micaiah who have international appeal? Even if the game were to be released to other countries via the VC, it still wouldn't be as well known as the games that have actually had tangible releases.

And in regards to Ike already representing the Radance series and thus discounting Micaiah, we Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf all representing TP instead of any other LoZ time period/reality, so I don't think its all that big of a deal.
 

ScoobyCafe

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Isn't Ridley a little... big to be a playable character? Like 5 times bigger than Ganondorf?


I still don't get why Geno would/should be in any SSB. He's an obscure character from one Mario game. He's not even a recurring character in the series.
1. Sakurai's interest in the character.
2. The moveset prospect of the character.
3. The character's popularity.

These are probably the biggest factors.
All of which Geno has.

Now for Stages. I found the castle siege a good stage for the fire emblem series.
I hated that stage as well as the stage's premise. For SSB4, I propose we get rid of this stage and give the characters (Marth and Ike) stages which represent the games their in.

A new fire emblem lord may get into the next smash. I think two fire emblem games tops would come out by the next fire emblem game. I find to see how popular the lords are and the games themselves to see if it would be put into the next smash. I would rather see older fire emblem lords then new ones being put into the next smash. But hey you never know.
I'm kinda siding with the older lords too, only because I haven't seen the new lord yet. If the new lord ends up being a bad*** chick with character/personality and charm (like Midna) and so forth, then yeah, new lord it is. :laugh:
 

Spydr Enzo

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Is Smashboards acting screwing for anyone else? These weird glitches are getting annoying.



Those spinoff games still show how popular a character is, and at the time of development (I guess you're reffering to 2005?) he had shown up in a lot of them, as well as several DK games, and quite frankly despite the fact that they were less popular, the series still had enough signifiance and popularity to warent the second character. But that's it.
But Mario Spin-off games really don't have anything to do with Diddy's appearance, he is representing the Donkey Kong series. The Donkey Kong series had significance then, they have significance now, just not as much popularity, showing that their status hasn't changed from 2005. So you can't say that a Donkey Kong rep isn't as likely now as it was in 2005.

As I said before, the retro characters are retro characters, and quite frankly can't be compared, because they are instances of a older games getting one character rather than getting three. In addition to that, their series didn't continue on like how the DK series has, so its still not comparable.
I still don't understand, what makes retro characters so different... They're representing single, minor games (maybe with a few minor spin-offs), so all they really need is one rep. But Donkey Kong is a mainstream Nintendo series, so having more than two, three, or even four is very possible and certainly very likely. Status of a series really has extremely minimal effect on the possibility of a character.

Yeah, its not really that complicated. The characters so far have been either majorly recognizable characters, important lead characters, and a few odd ball picks, particularly in regards to SF. The problem now is that the extremely recognizable characters are dwindling out, and so you basically have important lead characters or less than recognizable series, or second/third banana characters from established series. There really is no good way to predict how the developers of the next game will deal with this problem, but I just don't think that they will fall back on a series that's considerably past its prime, just because it had some nice days in the past, because the series is quite frankly well off at this time in terms of its current two characters.
If its had nice days in the past, considerably VERY nice days, why shouldn't they get some more characters? The series is still running to, and you have to admit its not doing horrible, its just not doing as good as it used to. Dixie Kong and King K. Rool are both majorly recognizable and played important parts as lead characters (K. Rool is the main villain, Dixie Kong was the star of two Donkey Kong Country games).

I don't see what I have to comment in there though...Its just bare bone looks at what characters are added into series with little consideration about the status of the series or the status of the characters.
This post is the perfect reason why status really doesn't matter. As long as the characters are recognizable, somewhat popular, they were vital to the games, and the series is more mainstream, thats enough to get them a character. I'm bringing retro characters into this because they are the perfect example whether they have one rep or seven. Their DEAD series got recognized decades after it was dead. The games weren't that popular in the first place, they only got a single minor game (with maybe a few minor remakes/spin-offs). and Donkey Kong Country isn't as old as them, has a lot more popularity, is extremely familiar by gamers and non-gamers, and is part of a mainstream Nintendo series. Again, current status doesn't matter, read ToiseOfChoice's post, and stop over-analyzing.
 

n88

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I'd say DK will probably get another character. Sakurai has shown interest in Dixie, and she definitely has moveset potential.
 

Spydr Enzo

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I'd say DK will probably get another character. Sakurai has shown interest in Dixie, and she definitely has moveset potential.
THANK you! There's another supporter of a new Donkey Kong character.

One thing that has been starting to annoy me is people over-analyzing things way to much. I believe in some trends but other people believe that there is a perfect formula to Super Smash Bros. I'm going to have to go with ScoobyCafe when I say "the mind finds order in chaos and randomness". Obviously it isn't is extreme as that statement makes it appear, but really their isn't a Smash formula.

I'm also going to have to go with Fatman's statements on Sakurai's choices for characters.

First of all, is interest. If Sakurai is interested in a character, they will most likely appear in the game, even if they are an obscure choice. Ice Climbers is a perfect example of this, he's stated that Ice Climber is one of his favorite NES games. Dixie Kong obviously has a lot of interest in her favor, so that is a major boost. Next up is originality/uniqueness. Sakurai wants to bring something new to the gameplay, as any good developer/designer would. He wants to have fun designing characters and make them original as to provide a new playstyle for the players, which makes the game more fun. I love playing as the Pokemon Trainer, and I've never owned a Pokemon game (yeah, seriously) and I suck as him anyway. But, he's fun. And fun is what makes games go 'round. Dixie Kong was supposed to be on a tag team with Diddy as seen in the Donkey Kong Country games, and this is definitely a unique play style. It's kind of a mix between Zelda/Shiek and the Ice Climbers. I don't know the possibility of them being tag team anymore, but Dixie Kong still has great chances when it comes to this, nevertheless. Finally, there is popularity. Popularity doesn't play as big of a role as some may think, unless they are crazy popular like Sonic, Megaman, Ridley, and Geno (yes, Geno. Face it and don't argue please). But popularity really isn't that big in Sakurai's mind. His interest in the character and originality of the character comes first. Dixie Kong has popularity, and so does K. Rool (who has equal if not slightly more popularity). So finally:

INTEREST > ORIGINALITY/UNIQUENESS >>> POPULARITY

And please stop bringing STATUS and AGE into this, those arguments are horrible and a worthless waste of your time, as Sakurai obviously doesn't give a **** about god **** Age and Status. Give it up.
 

WheelOfFish

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Er... in Super Metroid (the only Metroid game I've played... don't shoot me), Ridley was massive compared to Samus. That's what I was basing my opinion off of. They could scale Ridley down like they did with Bowser, but even then, I think Ridley would be huge. The fact that they used Ridley in Boss Battles also makes me a little skeptical for the fact that, in it, Ridley was huge. And Ridley is constantly in the air (not just gliding). Of course, they rarely make characters true to their games in SSB so I guess we'll see.

K.Rool. wouldn't surprise me, but (as much as I love the DKC games) I always thought he was a really lame, wannabe Bowser. XD

I'm hoping for another DK character though. And a new DK game... that doesn't involve racing or music. D:<
 

kirbywizard

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I hated that stage as well as the stage's premise. For SSB4, I propose we get rid of this stage and give the characters (Marth and Ike) stages which represent the games their in.
The thing is most stages in almost all teh fire emblem game are all very similar. Castle Seige was a great stage to represent the many levels in a fire emblem game. Besides the majority of castles, temples, forest, deserts, and even mountains all look very similar. Same for Ike's game. Also why make two seperate stages for only two separate fire emblem games. When you can make a stage similar to pokemon stadium 1 or 2.

I'm kinda siding with the older lords too, only because I haven't seen the new lord yet. If the new lord ends up being a bad*** chick with character/personality and charm (like Midna) and so forth, then yeah, new lord it is. :laugh:
Wouldn't that be nice ;_;

In regards to Sigurd being a representative of Fire Emblem, wouldn't his chances be hurt a great deal by Cecile? Isn't he the main character of that game?
No cecile was not the main character <_<

Also given Sakurai's comments of wanting to avoid Japan only characters if possible, wouldn't it be more likely for someone ike Lyn or Micaiah who have international appeal? Even if the game were to be released to other countries via the VC, it still wouldn't be as well known as the games that have actually had tangible releases.
The only Japan thing is what is really holding The Main Lord From Fire EMblem 4 back <_<. But I do not believe Lyn or Miciaha would have a better chance to be a playable character. They may have more international appear but are overshadowed by the likes of Ike and Roy >_>

And in regards to Ike already representing the Radance series and thus discounting Micaiah, we Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf all representing TP instead of any other LoZ time period/reality, so I don't think its all that big of a de
Fire Emblem is a huge series with many different lords, it would be ridiculous to have two lords represent the same fire emblem game , when you could just have ike represent both Path of Radiance and Radiant dawn. Link, Zelda and Ganon represent teh entire zelda series, while Michiah would only represent one fire emblem game that could easily be represented by ike.
 

ScoobyCafe

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The thing is most stages in almost all teh fire emblem game are all very similar. Castle Seige was a great stage to represent the many levels in a fire emblem game. Besides the majority of castles, temples, forest, deserts, and even mountains all look very similar. Same for Ike's game. Also why make two seperate stages for only two separate fire emblem games. When you can make a stage similar to pokemon stadium 1 or 2.
Because I don't think or want Fire Emblem to be limited to such constrictions. Sure, there are plenty of areas in both games which are virtually identical, but there are also notable areas which stand on there own. Those are the locations which should serve as stages for their games. Despite being from the same franchise, they aren't part of the same universe, much like the Mother games.

Fire Emblem is a huge series with many different lords, it would be ridiculous to have two lords represent the same fire emblem game , when you could just have ike represent both Path of Radiance and Radiant dawn. Link, Zelda and Ganon represent teh entire zelda series, while Michiah would only represent one fire emblem game that could easily be represented by ike.
I'm not quite sure what's so fascinating about Micaiah (her not using a sword?), but I don't see her getting in for the same reason I don't see Kumatora or Paula getting in. I'm sure she could, but I don't see it. If FE gets a new character, it would be some popular character from the older games or the newest lord.
 

Pieman0920

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But Mario Spin-off games really don't have anything to do with Diddy's appearance, he is representing the Donkey Kong series. The Donkey Kong series had significance then, they have significance now, just not as much popularity, showing that their status hasn't changed from 2005. So you can't say that a Donkey Kong rep isn't as likely now as it was in 2005.
Yes I can say it, as if it doesn't change its act, while others are, then there's no point with giving a new character. Perhaps if the whole of Nitnendo's games stand still then the DK series may as well get a new character, but that's not the case.


I still don't understand, what makes retro characters so different... They're representing single, minor games (maybe with a few minor spin-offs), so all they really need is one rep. But Donkey Kong is a mainstream Nintendo series, so having more than two, three, or even four is very possible and certainly very likely. Status of a series really has extremely minimal effect on the possibility of a character.
They're the only representatives of their respective games, and there isn't a second or third character for them. That's what makes them different. That's what makes them inapt to bring up. And given the fact that more popular series get more characters, there is a very noticable effect of status of the series.



If its had nice days in the past, considerably VERY nice days, why shouldn't they get some more characters? The series is still running to, and you have to admit its not doing horrible, its just not doing as good as it used to. Dixie Kong and King K. Rool are both majorly recognizable and played important parts as lead characters (K. Rool is the main villain, Dixie Kong was the star of two Donkey Kong Country games).
It shoudn't get more characters because its not doing well now, and because the two characters it has now represent the old DKC games perfectly fine as it is. (And as I've mentioned before, I'd say Dixie is more likely than K.Rool, and if you want to get technical with Sakurai being interested, then I'd say that Dixie would end up being paired with Kiddy Kong in order to replicate what she was probably going to do with Diddy Kong)


This post is the perfect reason why status really doesn't matter. As long as the characters are recognizable, somewhat popular, they were vital to the games, and the series is more mainstream, thats enough to get them a character. I'm bringing retro characters into this because they are the perfect example whether they have one rep or seven. Their DEAD series got recognized decades after it was dead. The games weren't that popular in the first place, they only got a single minor game (with maybe a few minor remakes/spin-offs). and Donkey Kong Country isn't as old as them, has a lot more popularity, is extremely familiar by gamers and non-gamers, and is part of a mainstream Nintendo series. Again, current status doesn't matter, read ToiseOfChoice's post, and stop over-analyzing.
Those things you are saying is status though...And DKC is already represented very well by the two characters that stared in it, so I don't see what the deal is. And I have read that post, and I don't see what you're trying to say is so convincing about it.

INTEREST > ORIGINALITY/UNIQUENESS >>> POPULARITY

And please stop bringing STATUS and AGE into this, those arguments are horrible and a worthless waste of your time, as Sakurai obviously doesn't give a **** about god **** Age and Status. Give it up.
The majority of characters, and I mean vast majority, are popular ones. Outside of that, there are more Orignal/Unique characters before the ones that Sakurai just shoe horned in due to his own interest. Of course saying who Sakurai has interest in is suspect as well, since we really don't know who he really cares about (and as far as Dixie is concerend he may have only been interested in Diddy and just wanted him to have a unique switching in and out style of play with Dixie but after whatever technical issues held him back, decided to cut her with no regrets)

Also you're the only one going on about age. I'm saying that the DK series should just be considered by its curent status rather than its past. :psycho:
 

kirbywizard

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Because I don't think or want Fire Emblem to be limited to such constrictions. Sure, there are plenty of areas in both games which are virtually identical, but there are also notable areas which stand on there own. Those are the locations which should serve as stages for their games. Despite being from the same franchise, they aren't part of the same universe, much like the Mother games.
Hm I have no idea why but I much rather prefer a stage that is similar to castle siege ( having a desert ect) then having a stage composed of an area such as the final end game in Radiant Dawn. I just feel a stage like Castle Siege can represente through out the entire series. I wouldn't mind seeing the final end game as a stage, but once you play a good amount of Fire EMblem game all the stages are the same no matter how you throw it.


I'm not quite sure what's so fascinating about Micaiah (her not using a sword?), but I don't see her getting in for the same reason I don't see Kumatora or Paula getting in. I'm sure she could, but I don't see it. If FE gets a new character, it would be some popular character from the older games or the newest lord.
She was the first lord to use magic instead of a weapon :ohwell:. But I agree with you here.
 

Pieman0920

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No cecile was not the main character <_<
Really? I thought he was the main character for half the game, and showed up in the next one, though I know that one's loard was Leaf. In whatever case, I can't help but think that neither would make it in due to the fact that it'd be three blue haired swordsman. (I know that seems like a dumb excuse to not let a character in, but the FE series really does suffer from that a bit too much. Heck, at least SF's space animals are different colors, and one is bird)


The only Japan thing is what is really holding The Main Lord From Fire EMblem 4 back <_<. But I do not believe Lyn or Miciaha would have a better chance to be a playable character. They may have more international appear but are overshadowed by the likes of Ike and Roy >_>
Well of course they are overshadowed by Ike. He got in, and they didn't. I don't think Roy's that likely though, given how unpopular he really was, and if I can remember correctly, was not a character that Sakurai actually wanted in at the time.

Fire Emblem is a huge series with many different lords, it would be ridiculous to have two lords represent the same fire emblem game , when you could just have ike represent both Path of Radiance and Radiant dawn. Link, Zelda and Ganon represent teh entire zelda series, while Michiah would only represent one fire emblem game that could easily be represented by ike.
Still, the Zelda characters are still from different universes and what not, so you would think that they'd diversify themselves a bit more, eh? And even if two represented the same universe for FE, its not like Marth doesn't still represent his own.

Of course a new FE game could easily come up and screw with any Fire Emblem predictions.
 

Spydr Enzo

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Yes I can say it, as if it doesn't change its act, while others are, then there's no point with giving a new character. Perhaps if the whole of Nitnendo's games stand still then the DK series may as well get a new character, but that's not the case.
You can say it, but why would you? As I've mentioned many times before, Status doesn't matter.

They're the only representatives of their respective games, and there isn't a second or third character for them. That's what makes them different. That's what makes them inapt to bring up. And given the fact that more popular series get more characters, there is a very noticable effect of status of the series.
There isn't a second or third character because they have a single, minor, simple game. They only need one character. Donkey Kong is a mainstream series with many games, and despite it's current status, it was once VERY popular and still is somewhat, just not doing as well as it once was.

It shoudn't get more characters because its not doing well now, and because the two characters it has now represent the old DKC games perfectly fine as it is. (And as I've mentioned before, I'd say Dixie is more likely than K.Rool, and if you want to get technical with Sakurai being interested, then I'd say that Dixie would end up being paired with Kiddy Kong in order to replicate what she was probably going to do with Diddy Kong)
Who gives a **** how its doing now? It is one of the most popular game series in history. Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, and Dixie Kong were the three main stars of Donkey Kong Country, Dixie Kong appearing playable in two, even more than Donkey Kong, so she should get some fair representation. The series status doesn't matter. Again.

Those things you are saying is status though...And DKC is already represented very well by the two characters that starred in it, so I don't see what the deal is. And I have read that post, and I don't see what you're trying to say is so convincing about it.
Donkey Kong Country is represented very well, but why doesn't it need any more? "UHH BERCUZ OF ITZ CURRINT STATIZ!!1!one!" isn't a good argument. Status clearly does not matter.

Also you're the only one going on about age. I'm saying that the DK series should just be considered by its curent status rather than its past. :psycho:
I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the words "current" and "past" have something to do with the passing of time. Or in other words (or word), "AGE". :psycho:



Also, think again about status being a factor.

-Why didn't Mario get any new characters?
-Why does Pokemon and Legend of Zelda have more characters than Mario?
-Why did Starfox get a new character before Mario?
-Why did Starox and Kirby get three characters (and two reps) before Metroid, which has intensely grown in popularity?
-Why did Ice Climbers, Pit, R.O.B., and Mr. Game & Watch get represented when their series is dead anyway?

Considering the immense popularity and STATUS of Mario, why didn't they get any new characters in Brawl when lesser series like Fire Emblem, Metroid, Donkey Kong, Fire Emblem, Starfox, etc.? Why does Pokemon have six representatives and Mario only have four? Legend of Zelda has five? It's obviously not because of status, because I'm pretty sure Mario has the greatest status of any series in Brawl (rivaled by Zelda and Pokemon, but Mario still beats them out).

Oh, and if there were no good DK games that starred Diddy around the start of Brawl's development except for Mario spin-off games, why is Diddy in before a new Mario character? After all, the whole "Mario-spinoff" thing kind of hints that Mario characers are the stars of the game, right?

Metroid is next in line in terms of status after Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon, and somehow Kirby (who is next in line) and Starfox got three reps while Metroid only has two. Ice Climbers, Pit, R.O.B. and Mr. Game and Watch's series are all DEAD, and somehow they got representation before Mario?

See a pattern, pieman? Does status matter then? Will it matter now? I don't think so.
 

Pieman0920

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There isn't a second or third character because they have a single, minor, simple game. They only need one character. Donkey Kong is a mainstream series with many games, and despite it's current status, it was once VERY popular and still is somewhat, just not doing as well as it once was.
But that doesn't matter now, and its already got its characters from those games, so it just doesn't make sense to ask for more.


Who gives a **** how its doing now? It is one of the most popular game series in history. Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, and Dixie Kong were the three main stars of Donkey Kong Country, Dixie Kong appearing playable in two, even more than Donkey Kong, so she should get some fair representation. The series status doesn't matter. Again.
If its current status didn't matter then it would have had three or four characters now, instead of two. :p

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the words "current" and "past" have something to do with the passing of time. Or in other words (or word), "AGE". :psycho:
Well something that is current is something that lacks age. Yes I'm talking about time, but more about things that are currently happening, rather than things that happened. Sorry if I misunderstood you about talking age, when I'm talking about a lack of age. While there is no technical problem with being a older character, for continuing series it seems to be the case that the series are represented by either their first games (DK, not DKC here) or their newest games. Thus, like how Brawl worked out, its likely that the Donkey Kong series will be represented in a fashion that denotes its newer games, and if they are less popular, then there will be less representation.


Also, think again about status being a factor.

-Why didn't Mario get any new characters?
No reason to add in anyone. As of now they are at their good spot just like Kirby is, where all real bases are covered. If it wasn't for the inevitable need for the series to progress in SSB4, I'd say it would keep its four.

-Why does Pokemon and Legend of Zelda have more characters than Mario?
Transformation characters.

-Why did Starfox get a new character before Mario?
It didn't. Mario just got its third earlier than Star Fox, and due to it having all the needed characters didn't advance.

-Why did Starox and Kirby get three characters (and two reps) before Metroid, which has intensely grown in popularity?
Metroid, sadly, isn't actually that popular. When I was researchng that sales data on the Wario, Kirby, DK, and Metroid series about their sales in the last two generations, Metroid came last. I don't know about Star Fox though.

-Why did Ice Climbers, Pit, R.O.B., and Mr. Game & Watch get represented when their series is dead anyway?
Their status allows them one character, and that's what they got. They aren't the same situation. (Also G&W's series wasn't quite dead at the time of Melee, thanks to the G&W Gallery games.

Oh, and if there were no good DK games that starred Diddy around the start of Brawl's development except for Mario spin-off games, why is Diddy in before a new Mario character? After all, the whole "Mario-spinoff" thing kind of hints that Mario characers are the stars of the game, right?
I said there were other games you know. Games in the DK series. Plus in comparison to most other Mario spin off characters that have yet to be added, Diddy has more status through his past, which is what makes the difference here. (Along with his status within the DK series games that were coming out around the time of the initial cast decisions)


See a pattern, pieman? Does status matter then? Will it matter now? I don't think so.
It matters overall, though it seems that there are technical limits that the series are allowed to achieve in order to balance things out a bit.
 

Arcadenik

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ummm...



yeah.
Oh, yeah. Bowser is always that big in 3D Mario games. Also, we must not forget that Bowser is always small in 2D Mario games, Mario RPG games, and Mario spin-off games. Bowser's small size and large size are both canonical so it is okay for Bowser to be scaled down in Smash.

100+ games where Bowser is too small > 4 games where Bowser is too big


Right, Ridley is small in that one game. We also must not forget that Ridley is too big in six other games like Super Metroid, Metroid Fusion, Metroid Prime, Metroid: Zero Mission, Metroid Prime 3, and now Metroid: Other M. As for Ridley's small size in the Melee intro, that was before his size was retconned in Metroid: Zero Mission 3 years later. Ridley's small size is not canonical now so it is not okay to scale him down in Smash.

6 games where Ridley is too big > 1 game where Ridley is too small
 
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