[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[sundayseclipse]

wolfen you sadden me. you dont beleve what you dont see
cells
atoms
othet planets
god
the sun exploding
halocaust.....nuf said
any way
if megaman is put in he needs his own costime for ssb4.(sorta exe like with hair sticking out. lets face it his suits lack design)
knuckles ftw. eh either knuckles or shadow well get in, maby both.
silver could be taking shadows spot as a.t. knuckles would be a good char seeing how hes in the top 5 fastest sonic characters and has abilitys,homing attack, super/hyper, chaos conrtol, gaurdian powers....rant

another 3rd party char I wana see is Dig Dug. it would revive him and lets face it hes awsome.maby as a a.t.

 

[Lord Viper]

*shoots self after seeing more Sonic*

Sonic is too "loud" in Smash alone. I wouldn't want more annoying humanoid animals in it, to be honest. No offense to diehard fans. lol

☆ And Snake is just la-ti-da on Smash Bros to, amitie? *miss spelled on purpose because another Sega character's name from Puyo Puyo* =D ☆

 

[delo quicker]

I actually hope that there are more secondary characters such as zero or tails.

 

[Mythic02]

I really don't think we need sidekicks and whatnot.

We have the stars of the series, why go for second best. This way if you are a fanboy of some third party, you get your main character. The last thing we need is every single sonic character. Give us a shadow costume and be done with it.

For a reason other than total annoyingness of having every single character other than the main one, sakurai doesn't need a sidekick. Sonic attracts all sonic fans, megaman will attract all megaman fans.

And for zero, wasn't his game sold with the name Megaman in the title. I will not deny Zero's coolness, but Megaman is almost a given for the next game, Zero has an itty-bitty chance. The company will not give Zero to represent it over its pride and joy.

 

[Wolfric]

sundayseclipse I'm done arguing with you, I've been getting a hard time decoding your grammar.

Mythic02, you're right, even thought Zero has his fame, Megaman is the star hahah

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

Back on Topic

Mewtwo improvements for SSB4 (Tell me what you think)

-Grapple
If Mewtwo can use a grab that worked like a grappling hook with out the hook and tether then it would show some credibility to his "Psychic" powers, allowing a "Force choke hold" that would bring the enemy close then a throw.

-Pressure
In the Pokemon series, Pressure accelerates the PP counter of the enemy making the enemy's attacks run out of power quicker.
Theres this mechanic in Brawl & SSB1 that weakens the blow of each attack everytime you use it. This encourages fighters to use different moves. Lucario has an Aura ability. But if Mewtwo's Pressure ability came into play in a Smash game; Then every hit done to Mewtwo will accelerate the "degrade counter" forcing players to constantly use different moves.
IE;
It takes 4 to 5 22% F-smashes to degrade to 15%.
When hitting Mewtwo it would take 1 to 2 F-smashes to reduce 22% to 15%.
Note that Knockback is also degraded.

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

Mewtwo continued

Cont
(typing from PS3=limited text=i need another post to reset the text counter)

Barrier-
Mewtwo needs a true reflect.
Fox's reflect shines you off & what not. But barrier should work like;
If barrier is used within your space, it will push you at a distance with no damage. (Like Game & Watch's UP-air)
This might be broken as hell since you can reflect & "shine" off anyone trying to recover back to the stage.
You could also use it as pure defensive game as before you get wacked with DEDEDE's hammer, you can space with barrier. But DEDEDE's hammer has some long range an will hit you anyway.
OH BUT WHATS THIS? Knockback decreased?!
Broken move? Not quite. Barrier will also drain your L R sheilds like a mother ****er. So there.

Another thought.
In Melee a Charged F-smash with Mewtwo does 14% & 20% if sweet spotted. Everyone else does a standard 20% with the C-stick.
I dont mind Mewtwo being completely useless with mobility, but wtf, buff him up.

 

[Steelia]

Mewtwo improvements for SSB4 (Tell me what you think)

-Grapple
If Mewtwo can use a grab that worked like a grappling hook with out the hook and tether then it would show some credibility to his "Psychic" powers, allowing a "Force choke hold" that would bring the enemy close then a throw.

-Pressure
In the Pokemon series, Pressure accelerates the PP counter of the enemy making the enemy's attacks run out of power quicker.
Theres this mechanic in Brawl & SSB1 that weakens the blow of each attack everytime you use it. This encourages fighters to use different moves. Lucario has an Aura ability. But if Mewtwo's Pressure ability came into play in a Smash game; Then every hit done to Mewtwo will accelerate the "degrade counter" forcing players to constantly use different moves.
IE;
It takes 4 to 5 22% F-smashes to degrade to 15%.
When hitting Mewtwo it would take 1 to 2 F-smashes to reduce 22% to 15%.
Note that Knockback is also degraded.

Cont
(typing from PS3=limited text=i need another post to reset the text counter)

Barrier-
Mewtwo needs a true reflect.
Fox's reflect shines you off & what not. But barrier should work like;
If barrier is used within your space, it will push you at a distance with no damage. (Like Game & Watch's UP-air)
This might be broken as hell since you can reflect & "shine" off anyone trying to recover back to the stage.
You could also use it as pure defensive game as before you get wacked with DEDEDE's hammer, you can space with barrier. But DEDEDE's hammer has some long range an will hit you anyway.
OH BUT WHATS THIS? Knockback decreased?!
Broken move? Not quite. Barrier will also drain your L R sheilds like a mother ****er. So there.

Another thought.
In Melee a Charged F-smash with Mewtwo does 14% & 20% if sweet spotted. Everyone else does a standard 20% with the C-stick.
I dont mind Mewtwo being completely useless with mobility, but wtf, buff him up.

Certainly some interesting things there, Neckbeard Torterra. Wouldn't've thought of giving Mewtwo a kind of grappling hook effect. He's certainly more than capable of doing it. (That was one of the attributes I was hoping he kept, some kind of telekinetic extended grab. )

That Pressure ability is AWESOME. Mewtwo could seriously use that. If he were to utilize the same (or slightly boosted) stats from Melee, that ability would be a godsend in battle. Forcing your opponent to use other moves as their Pressure wears off is genius, and unique to him only.

Barrier... That was something I was also hoping he had. I shielded for the first time as Mewtwo in Melee and )': when I saw he didn't have his blue psychic force field from the 1st Pokemon movie. Though it does sound a tad off... certainly better than Disable or Confusion.

And, of course, having him beefed wouldn't hurt at all, either.

Mewtwo and Cut Company for Super Smash Bros. 4.
An added side of Deoxys, Darkrai, Rosalina, Adeleine and some others wouldn't hurt, either.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Why do people think that Mewtwo is coming back in SSB4? He's not getting anymore popular -- even with the release of Fire Red and Leaf Green, he wasn't back in Brawl.

 

[Heartz♥]

It is their opinion. This is a hypothetical thread after all.

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

Deoxys-
UP B= Extreme speed.
Its going to still have the annoyance of Lucario's load time. But during this time Deoxys is transforming to SPEED forme, followed by something like Wolf's Side B.
Side B= Light screen.
Works like a 1 sided reflect.
DOWN B= Defense curl.
Like Kirby's rock. The load time is Deoxys transforming into DEF forme. Same properties as Kirby's rock except you take 37% of the normal damage only. The best part is that you can stay like this how ever long you want. But knockback still applies. (2/3rds of it)
STANDARD B= Psycho Boost
You turn into ATK forme and load something like Samu's charge shot.
BUT, it's size is kinda small. Slightly smaller than Mewtwo's Shadowball. BUT, the load time is quicker and does a fixed 25%
AAA jabs: During the first A, Deoxys will stun the enemy to give time to transform into ATK forme. The next AAAA's will be like Marth's A swings, but more like vinewhips with his tenticles.
While charging for a F-smash, Deoxys is turning into ATK forme.
Then Whip.
CONTINUED-

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

Deoxys cont-
Dodging! Side steps, whatever, ROLLING dodge-
No rolling whatsoever, just a few animations of Speed Deoxys back into Deoxys.
RUNNING!-
You guessed it!- More Speed Deoxys.
Probably on par with C.Falcon's speed.

The downside to Deoxys?
He has a startup for almost every move in order to transform.
Now he cant be broken.

& Mr Mod, this is a fantasy thread EVERYTHING SAID WILL NOT HAPPEN.
....ever

 

[bivunit94]

Megaman
Ray 01
Isaac
Ridley
Lyn
Samurai Goroh
Balloon Fighter
Little Mac
Animal Crosser
Stafy (or Starfy as he is now known as in the U.S.)

Those are the ten new characters I'm hoping/expecting to be in SSB4.
Plus, Mewtwo re-added and Toon Link cut. I really don't see why no one complains about TL. He's the most pointless character on the entire Brawl roster, imo. :\

 

[Lord Viper]

Toon Link cut. I really don't see why no one complains about TL. He's the most pointless character on the entire Brawl roster, imo. :\

☆ Toon Link is his own... Link. I don't know much about the LoZ series due to me not being a fan of it so you have to ask the pros about that. But at least he's not a Younger version of himself, plus Toon Link has been in multiple LoZ games as well. Last for me, he's much more pickable than Young Link is, I pick Toon Link a lot and I don't even play the LoZ series that much. =P ☆

 

[Steelia]

Why do people think that Mewtwo is coming back in SSB4? He's not getting anymore popular -- even with the release of Fire Red and Leaf Green, he wasn't back in Brawl.

Personally, I'm hoping he returns. No one can say "[This character] IS coming back in the next Smash game!", unless it's the obvious (Mario, Luigi, Kirby, etc.)...

Mewtwo's not meeting much with the modern Pokefans, that's certainly true, but he still has a faithful fanbase within those who grew up with him. That support alone could be all that's needed. (And seeing how he WAS in Brawl, but was apparently cut very last minute, should also say a little something on how Sakurai and co. look at him.)

But, really, I couldn't say whether the fans could be his salvation or not. In the end, it all comes down to the decision of Sakurai's (and also GAME FREAK, in this case). R.O.B. and the Ice Climbers went totally unnoticed for many-a-year until they were revived in Melee and Brawl (R.O.B. was in the Mario Kart DS game, I believe, but that didn't really garner much on his side). Never had I heard a whisper of either, yet they made it. And big name characters like K. Rool, Krystal, Ridley (in the playable sense), even Midna or Geno still bit the dust to them.

But despite that, Mewtwo and Cut Companions for Smash Bros. 4... please.
Other choices, like those mentioned above, would certainly be dandy.

 

[sundayseclipse]

ok wolfen my grammar has been perfect the last couple of messages. ive been posting on my wii. stop being such a prick.

toon link has his own games so he deserves his spot. they could change the moves to wind waker standers. his f.s. would be huricane ......when he moves his wands he warps....dang name escapes me. or since the next one is going to be soal tracks he could ride his chu chu and run over ppl >.<. hes train outfent be costume

the people i think should change to as to playables are ray issac and lil mac, maby shadow

 

[MasterToshima]

Wah Wah Wah

WALUIGIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIi

So i made a whole moveset for waluigi and will publish it after a year os something when smash 4 is announced

But seriously if they dont put waluigi in I will bomb nintendo

Btw thats my MKW fc not my brawl FC

 

[majora_787]

"OK Wolfen, my grammar has been perfect the last couple of messages. I've been posting on my Wii. Stop being such a prick.

Toon Link has his own games so he deserves his spot. They could change the moves to Wind Waker standers. His FS would be Hurricane ......When he moves his wand he warps....dang name escapes me. Rr since the next one is going to be on tracks he could ride his ???? and run over ppl >.<. His train outfit be costume.

The people I think should change to playable are Ray, Issac and Lil mac, and maybe Shadow"



.... <_< You SERIOUSLY started to lose me there...Doctor Mario has HIS own games, does he necessarily DESERVE a spot as his own CHARACTER? He's MARIO in a DOCTOR OUTFIT. They could simply give Mario a DOCTOR OUTFIT and we would have Dr. Mario.

His chu-chu? 0_o What?

No...but if they based Link off of Spirit Tracks, hopefully it would be a partnership with his Phantom to make it an interesting new Link, unlike Toon Link.

There's a new LoZ game coming out, there is no reason for us to keep the same Toon Link. And since the game its self is doing something new, they should make something new for Toon Link.

 

[Wizzerd]

There is no real reason to cut Toon Link. The Legend of Zelda is one of Nintendo's biggest series, and it deserves four reps. Toon Link is in fact completely different then regular Link, and the reason he seems like a waste of a roster spot... is because Sakurai Luigified him. He could have easily looked like this:

B: Grappling Hook
B>: Skull Hammer
B^: Deku Leaf
Bv: Bombchu
FS: Hurricane Spin

In my opinion the most pointless characters in Brawl are Wolf and Zero Suit Samus: Wolf for over-repping Star Fox and Zero Suit Samus for being put in over Ridley for fanservice.

 

[Wolfric]

There is no real reason to cut Toon Link. The Legend of Zelda is one of Nintendo's biggest series, and it deserves four reps. Toon Link is in fact completely different then regular Link, and the reason he seems like a waste of a roster spot... is because Sakurai Luigified him. He could have easily looked like this:

B: Grappling Hook
B>: Skull Hammer
B^: Deku Leaf
Bv: Bombchu
FS: Hurricane Spin

In my opinion the most pointless characters in Brawl are Wolf and Zero Suit Samus: Wolf for over-repping Star Fox and Zero Suit Samus for being put in over Ridley for fanservice.

First Young Link, now Toon Link became the new Young Link, they're both plain clones, I don't like Wolf, but nor I dislike him, he's got his own movesets, thought they all have in common the reflector and the gun, and Zero Suit Samus? I REALLY loved that Metroid game from GBA, and more I did when I saw Samus losing her costume, it was completely diferent, so I do think she earned a spot. If we're talking about pointless chars, Toon Link/Young Link are it, also Dr. Mario, since it as the same, completely.

 

[Roy-Kun]

Just read a few posts in the previous pages.

Maybe i'll sound rude, but, what's with adding more than one 3rd Party from the same series? (Ex: Knuckles and Tails from the Sonic series).

It's really unnecessary, one 3rd Party per franchise is enough (and too much IMO).

Edit: Toon Link is Link. Why change the moveset?

The only unnecesary characters in Brawl are: Zero Suit Samus and Jigglypuff. It's my oppinion though.

 

[Wizzerd]

Just read a few posts in the previous pages.

Maybe i'll sound rude, but, what's with adding more than one 3rd Party from the same series? (Ex: Knuckles and Tails from the Sonic series). It's really unnecessary, one 3rd Party per franchise is enough (and too much IMO).

I agree. While a few third party characters are okay in Smash, the focus should always be on Nintendo characters. Each third party is one Nintendo character not getting in.

Edit: Toon Link is Link. Why change the moveset?

Toon Link should have an original moveset because he has so many unique things to draw from that regular Link doesn't have. He does use arrows and bombs, but he also has many unique tools that outnumber them.

The only unnecesary characters in Brawl are: Zero Suit Samus and Jigglypuff. It's my oppinion though.

Yeah, I suppose Jiggles is less popular now, but it's still likely that Nintendo will keep him/her in because she's O12, though I hate using such a stale argument.

 

[Wolfric]

I don't think Zero Suit was unnecesary, it's just Samus herself o nher other form, and you know she'll stay for SSB4.

And Jigglypuff was really never THAT popular for SSB, I really thought he/she wouldn't be in Melee, and it surprised me it was in Brawl.

 

[Steelia]

Yeah, I suppose Jiggles is less popular now, but it's still likely that Nintendo will keep him/her in because she's O12, though I hate using such a stale argument.

Indeed. Jiggs is a pretty good character on her own, but seeing her take the place of other rising/popular Pokemon just isn't right. Her reputation has kind of dropped over the years (other than maybe in Japan; I haven't seen her in the anime, trading card game, let alone have any significance in the games), so it's probably about time to either drop her or put her under "another" Pokemon Trainer, as people want. (Something tells me her Kirby-esque shape is also a factor as to why she's staying...)

Regardless, so long as she doesn't take the spot of any future Pokemon combatants, Mewtwo and the Cut Characters for Smash Bros. 4, alongside some other personal favorites... that hopefully Sakurai actually puts into the game rather than making "pre-set lists" and only adding 1.

 

[Starphoenix]

I agree. While a few third party characters are okay in Smash, the focus should always be on Nintendo characters. Each third party is one Nintendo character not getting in.

Assuming that the roster for SB4 was 50, and assuming we had 4 3PCS. That is a very small portion of characters compared to the roster as a whole. Oh yeah, I am really sure Snake and Sonic kept out characters like Ridley, Krystal, and King K. Rool, sorry if Sakurai had not have planned to put them in in Brawl when he drew up his list, I doubt they would have gotten in to begin with.

Toon Link should have an original moveset because he has so many unique things to draw from that regular Link doesn't have. He does use arrows and bombs, but he also has many unique tools that outnumber them.

He should, there really is no justification for why he was cloned so poorly. Since the Toon series does not seem to be going anywhere, I have a feeling next time around we may see him changed a little.

Yeah, I suppose Jiggles is less popular now, but it's still likely that Nintendo will keep him/her in because she's O12, though I hate using such a stale argument.

Sadly, it isn't going anywhere. -_-

 

[Mythic02]

Jigglypuff isn't bad at all. Her moveset is so unique that no one could take it. Jigglypuff got extremely nerfed in brawl, but i wouldn't take her out. She just needs to take back her melee status. Also she is O12, it's a stale argument, but a lot of people would be pissed off if she didn't return.

Third parties are great, they just can't overwhelm the roster. One character per major third party corporation, and only the important characters (and snake who used his stealth to sneak into the roster unknown.)

And Toon link does need to be changed, just a bit. Let him keep hiss arrows, maybe let him keep bombs, but give him some other items. Also, Toon link might be cut, but he will be replaced with the latest reincarnation of non-adult Link. We still need to change them up, so we can make Link a bit faster, so he is more like his game.

 

[Heartz♥]

I agree about Link's agility. The idea is to make the characters as true to their game as possible. Of course, it all comes down to diversity in the roster. There are swordsmans of each speed:

Toon Link
Marth
Link
Ike
(I'm not counting Metaknight. He is in his own realm)

From fastest to slowest. So we have to keep that in mind so that they aren't too similar. Link being a bit faster wouldn't hurt, and Toon Link could use some different moves.

 

[Steelia]

And Toon link does need to be changed, just a bit. Let him keep hiss arrows, maybe let him keep bombs, but give him some other items. Also, Toon link might be cut, but he will be replaced with the latest reincarnation of non-adult Link. We still need to change them up, so we can make Link a bit faster, so he is more like his game.

Why bother with bombs (Down-B) when he can have... BOMBCHUS! Those would be fun to mess with.

His Up-B, I was disappointed it didn't work out like it did in Wind Waker, where (on the ground) you hold to charge, you can KEEP holding to charge (similarly to Luigi's Forward-B) but you can very slowly move around, then let go and spin... After that's done with, you're left stunned/dizzy, leaving you very vulnerable. Maybe in the air, you can have the option of charging it as well, like Diddy's Up-B. The longer the wait, the higher you can go, and the more power you muster.

Forward-B could easily be the Deku Leaf from Wind Waker as well. He could use it to blow people away. Doubt it would hurt them, though; it'd be more on the lines of how Mario's F.L.U.D.D. and Squirtle's Water Gun attacks work. Can't really think of any other items that could work here at the moment... Maybe even Grappling Hook (keeping Hookshot as the grab), working like Zero Suit Samus' and Sheik's Forward-Bs.

Arrows... Those'll more than likely stay, but can be switched out with the Slingshot. Maybe.

In any case, reworked Toon Link, Mewtwo and Cut Company for Smash Bros. 4.

 

[Big-Cat]

The idea is to make the characters as true to their game as possible.

I doubt that this is really the case. Look at Samus, the MOTHER kids, and others because it does not apply to them.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Jigglypuff isn't bad at all. Her moveset is so unique that no one could take it. Jigglypuff got extremely nerfed in brawl, but i wouldn't take her out. She just needs to take back her melee status. Also she is O12, it's a stale argument, but a lot of people would be pissed off if she didn't return.

Third parties are great, they just can't overwhelm the roster. One character per major third party corporation, and only the important characters (and snake who used his stealth to sneak into the roster unknown.)

And Toon link does need to be changed, just a bit. Let him keep hiss arrows, maybe let him keep bombs, but give him some other items. Also, Toon link might be cut, but he will be replaced with the latest reincarnation of non-adult Link. We still need to change them up, so we can make Link a bit faster, so he is more like his game.

She should return in a Trainer.
Demoting her slightly isn't going to kill the character.

 

[Heartz♥]

I doubt that this is really the case. Look at Samus, the MOTHER kids, and others because it does not apply to them.

As I said, "as possible". They can't really be perfect with it. We know this.

Why say Samus and skip the Starfox gang? lolol.

 

[drag0nscythe]

As I said, "as possible". They can't really be perfect with it. We know this.

Why say Samus and skip the Starfox gang? lolol.

Ridley would suffer slightly also.

On the subject. Someone complained about Mewtwo coming back. Thing is, Ridley is purely a fan wanted character. After two games of being ignored and Sakurai saying what he did in the interview, same can be said for him. It is just fans hoping.

 

[Darknid]

Man, there are enough Pokemon already. DK only has 2 reps, that's ridiculous.

 

[Heartz♥]

The thing with Mewtwo is that he only really became popular because of the movie. Other than that, he would been just another legendary Pokemon, regardless of the fact that he was the first of them all.

Mewtwo is a walking, talking, humanoid Pokemon, so of course a decent playstyle was made for him to fit in Melee. But Lucario is the current humanoid Pokemon representing in Brawl. They won't just put some random, four-legged creature in SSB4 unless it is with a trainer.

Why do you think Lucario had such a similar playstyle to Mewtwo? Mewtwo was replaced with out reluctance. I doubt Lucario will be ousted out unless a new Pokemon is thrown into the fray in his stead.

Blarg, I sense a debate from Mewtwo fans. lololol

 

[drag0nscythe]

Man, there are enough Pokemon already. DK only has 2 reps, that's ridiculous.

This is an excuse I am getting annoyed with.
It is based purely on personal opinion. (so is wanting more pokemon in a way) It is not like we are asking for half the roster to be pokemon. I want just six spaces. That is not alot, especially for one of nintendos most successes series.

Pikachu
PT - Char, Squ, Ivy
FPT - Jiggs, Pichu, Gardivour
Lucario
Mewtwo
5th gen.

All the would have to do is make up two new movesets. (He made 4 in brawl.)

As for DK.

Donkey
diddy and dixie
King K rool.

4 movesetes. Covers all important characters.

 

[Pez55]

Ridley is purely a fan wanted character.

Most characters in Smash Bros. are mostly fan wanted. Such as Meta Knight and Sonic.

 

[Big-Cat]

As I said, "as possible". They can't really be perfect with it. We know this.

Why say Samus and skip the Starfox gang? lolol.

Simple, Samus has a lot that they could've derived from for her. I mean, where is her ice beam; why does she have a flamethrower; why does shoot a blue beam?

 

[Heartz♥]

lol. Ice Beam. She would be broken if she had that.

 

[Big-Cat]

lol. Ice Beam. She would be broken if she had that.

Actually, you could put it in as her ASideA, It would act the same as it is now, but it has a chance of freezing.

 

[Heartz♥]

Yea, it's the freezing part. It would give her great opportunity for her powerful tilts. Then again, it would make her a higher tier character than broken. That could work out.