[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[WolfCypher]

Mewtwo and Samus.

Similar B specials

Floaty

Slimilar weight

Predictable and punishable rolls.

Only decent priority.

See? they have stuff in common too. Doesn't make them clones. Lucario is a Pokemon though, so that does tip it a little bit more towards him.

I never said they were clones. At all. And my comparison was between Lucario & Mewtwo in SSB, not Mewtwo & Samus. All I'm proving is that Lucario and Melee's Mewtwo have a fair share in common. And no, Lucario's roll dodge is nothing like Samus's. Lucario's roll dodge is very quick, lagless, and(of course) looks nothing like Samus's.

 

[Shadow Huan]

He's a bad character, if he was better, he'd be high tier due to victories, but no, he's not, he'd be higher tier if he was as good as you say. But don't get me wrong, I do love Mewtwo and I also play it in Melee, reason why I'd want it back with a bit changes, his movesets were special!

I didn't say he was a good character. I said he can be played effectivly with the proper skill level, and he's more than capable of winning matches... even against Marth... though you have to practically be psycic yourself to win against a good Marth, who can counter the ENTIRE cast... cept a perfectly played Fox.

I thought that you had said that many people play Mewtwo and loose and that's why he's not high on the teir.

To some degree this is true, but people I play with Mewtwo usually don't have two ****'s of an idea of what the hell I'm doing. Go look in the Mewtwo boards and find the Mewtwo player finder... there are VERY few serious Mewtwo players. And yes. I'm a low level pro at Melee, so I have a fairly good grasp of what I'm talking about.

We are in agreement. Mewtwo is a bad character. Seriously. But he can win, and he ***** all of the other bottom teirs, some of whom are placed above him. *coughBOWSERcough*

Except maybe Ness. Little prick. lol

As for maining Mewtwo... I do, but I use Marth in tournies. So I main the best and one of the worst lol. Mewtwo serves some purpose when I play him in tournies though. I.E. I win.

P.S. All Mewtwo players except Taj loose a lot. It happens. >.>

I've played all Metroid games, Dark Samus is a copy, it's like adding Dr. Mario again, plain clone, but they could add its costume to Samus, that I would like, other than that, It'd be a copy, though, they could add it as well, like, it'd be a second player from metroid series and it'd be cool, but I'm not too much into that idea.

Go back and play MP2 again sir. Only extreme laziness would cause them to make Dark Samus a clone or an alt.

Considering Ganondorf and C. Falcon, it wouldn't surprise me though.

I never said they were clones. At all. And my comparison was between Lucario & Mewtwo in SSB, not Mewtwo & Samus. All I'm proving is that Lucario and Melee's Mewtwo have a fair share in common. And no, Lucario's roll dodge is nothing like Samus's. Lucario's roll dodge is very quick, lagless, and(of course) looks nothing like Samus's.

First, I was referencing my joke about comparing Mewtwo and Samus because both have a "Charge Shot" type projectile.

Second, my comparasion had nothing to do with Lucario.

Third, Steelia already said this, but as far as floatiness goes, ALL the characters in Brawl have that in common with Melee Mewtwo. Since Lucario and Mewtwo were supposed to be in Brawl together, I'm sure that there would've been very, very few similarities. As there is now, there are not enough to consider them very similar. the fighting styles are too different.

Fourth, LOL @ you thinking I was comparing Lucario's roll to Samus's...

Anywho...

Bowser's Castle for a level and Mewtwo returns for SSB4!!!

 

[Wolfric]

I didn't say he was a good character. I said he can be played effectivly with the proper skill level, and he's more than capable of winning matches... even against Marth... though you have to practically be psycic yourself to win against a good Marth, who can counter the ENTIRE cast... cept a perfectly played Fox.

I thought that you had said that many people play Mewtwo and loose and that's why he's not high on the teir.

I never said he can't win! I enjoy playing with him as well, even thought I main Zelda, and Sheik when needed,, thought, it's rough when you fight against a Sheik or Fox as he is, his moveset is great, but with more power it WOULD compensate his slowness, that's what I mean.

 

[sundayseclipse]

shadowball thats gamefreaks. who legaly owns mewtwo....nintendo.sakurai has to get in the prior characters, get the characters that the company wants then use the ones he thinks would fit in. sorry dude its more complicated then just popularity. if it were game and watch, pit...etc would'nt be in
thus proving another point

yes mewtwo was bad a** but hes considered a clone.

 

[Wolfric]

shadowball thats gamefreaks. who legaly owns mewtwo....nintendo.sakurai has to get in the prior characters, get the characters that the company wants then use the ones he thinks would fit in. sorry dude its more complicated then just popularity. if it were game and watch, pit...etc would'nt be in
thus proving another point

yes mewtwo was bad a** but hes considered a clone.

There's no place where it says he was a Clone.

 

[sundayseclipse]

its just what other ppl have said im going on wat majority of people r saying. kinda is

any way wat system do you think ssb4 will be on

 

[Wolfric]

its just what other ppl have said im going on wat majority of people r saying. kinda is

I used to say the same until I actually PLAYED Lucario, completely diferent chaarcters, other than B special, they may be "the same" ONLY because they both showed off in individual Pokemon movies, not in the anime.

any way wat system do you think ssb4 will be on

I wonder the same! I hope it's for Wii, I don't wanna buy another console in the future near ;_:

 

[Steelia]

shadowball thats gamefreaks. who legaly owns mewtwo....nintendo.sakurai has to get in the prior characters, get the characters that the company wants then use the ones he thinks would fit in. sorry dude its more complicated then just popularity. if it were game and watch, pit...etc would'nt be in
thus proving another point

yes mewtwo was bad a** but hes considered a clone.

A clone? Of who? Samus? Who blurted THIS blasphemy? I can take Lucario being a clone of Mewtwo, but Mewtwo...

Ohhhh, I see. It was a trick question.
Mewtwo is a clone of Mew.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

(He IS badace, though. )

He's a bad character, if he was better, he'd be high tier due to victories, but no, he's not, he'd be higher tier if he was as good as you say. But don\'t get me wrong, I do love Mewtwo and I also play it in Melee, reason why I'd want it back with a bit changes, his mvoesets were special!

Hmm. My opinion on this kind of thinking clashes with... this kind of thinking.
There are two ways you can look at it.

1) Mewtwo is a bad character.
This seems to be the most supported view, and rightfully so, if you can't play a character as casually as, say, a rampant Fox or Marth, then that makes them horrid.
However...

2) You (the player) need work.
That's right, You. The player. For most, this would be considered a matter of pride. How good are YOU at Mewtwo? Is Mewtwo really a horrible, horrible character, or are you just not good with him?
Truth be told, I love to play as Mewtwo... As such, he's become one of my better characters. But I completely SUCK as Fox. Fox AND Marth. But why is it I cannot call those two "bad characters"? I can't win matches with them. They must be bad!

...You get my point hopefully. >.>

Again, something I've noted for the longest time, two completely clashing views.
Mewtwo supporters (and the users of the lower tiers) seem to go more for 2.
Others, preferring not to give that much thought into the whole process, normally go with 1.
Both seem reasonable enough. Guess it's just a matter of taste (and pride).

...In any which case, for the sake of casual playing, a reworked Mewtwo for Smash Bros. 4.
And PLEASE bring back some of the older N64 stages. Those were fun, too. ):

 

[Wolfric]

A clone? Of who? Samus? Who blurted THIS blasphemy? I can take Lucario being a clone of Mewtwo, but Mewtwo...

Ohhhh, I see. It was a trick question.
Mewtwo is a clone of Mew.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

(He IS badace, though. )



Hmm. My opinion on this kind of thinking clashes with... this kind of thinking.
There are two ways you can look at it.

1) Mewtwo is a bad character.
This seems to be the most supported view, and rightfully so, if you can't play a character as casually as, say, a rampant Fox or Marth, then that makes them horrid.
However...

2) You (the player) need work.
That's right, You. The player. For most, this would be considered a matter of pride. How good are YOU at Mewtwo? Is Mewtwo really a horrible, horrible character, or are you just not good with him?
Truth be told, I love to play as Mewtwo... As such, he's become one of my better characters. But I completely SUCK as Fox. Fox AND Marth. But why is it I cannot call those two "bad characters"? I can't win matches with them. They must be bad!

...You get my point hopefully. >.>

Again, something I've noted for the longest time, two completely clashing views.
Mewtwo supporters (and the users of the lower tiers) seem to go more for 2.
Others, preferring not to give that much thought into the whole process, normally go with 1.
Both seem reasonable enough. Guess it's just a matter of taste (and pride).

...In any which case, for the sake of casual playing, a reworked Mewtwo for Smash Bros. 4.
And PLEASE bring back some of the older N64 stages. Those were fun, too. ):

I understand what you're saying, however, if it's option 2, then 95%of the players need to learn to play? and only 5% can control the GREATLY powered Mewtwo? that's wrong. Show me a vid of Taj or anyother good Mewtwo beating the top player of Marth from SSBM, or beating top Sheik/Fox then I'll believe that point.(I know it's impossible to get the vid, it's just a saying) There's no way that could happen, and if it does, then that Mewtwo player is inmortal, that's like you showing me a vid of the top Capt. Falcon or Ganondorf main(Brawl) beating the top Metaknight player(M2K I think it's spelled?)

 

[sundayseclipse]

yah it kinda was a clone of mewtwo
in ssb a clone of a clone LUDERCURIS....>.>
i hope its on a new system. lets face it wii's graphics sucks. i want it to have better 2.5 d graphics and better detail.

on a different note whats with the brawl turtoils on nintendo channel. are they stalling or somthing

btw its not the character its the person controling the character. dont make excuses of why you suck with certain characters. at least steelia admits it

 

[Wolfric]

yah it kinda was a clone of mewtwo
in ssb a clone of a clone LUDERCURIS....>.>
i hope its on a new system. lets face it wii's graphics sucks. i want it to have better 2.5 d graphics and better detail.

on a different note whats with the brawl turtoils on nintendo channel. are they stalling or somthing

btw its not the character its the person controling the character. dont make excuses of why you suck with certain characters. at least steelia admits it

Then get me the vid of a Capt. Falcon or Ganondorf beating M2K and I'll believe that

 

[Steelia]

I understand what you're saying, however, if it's option 2, then 95%of the players need to learn to play? and only 5% can control the GREATLY powered Mewtwo? that's wrong. Show me a vid of Taj or anyother good Mewtwo beating the top player of Marth from SSBM, or beating top Sheik/Fox then I'll believe that point.(I know it's impossible to get the vid, it's just a saying) There's no way that could happen, and if it does, then that Mewtwo player is inmortal, that's like you showing me a vid of the top Capt. Falcon or Ganondorf main(Brawl) beating the top Metaknight player(M2K I think it's spelled?)

If you're a believer in 2, then yes, I suppose that would be the statistics. >_> (And there HAVE been a few shots of Taj or other good Mewtwo mainers defeating some nicely played Fox's and Marth's... Of course, I don't keep track of all that stuff as I'm not a big fan of all this competitive discussion, so I wouldn't know who they were or where to find said videos. YouTube is always a good place, though. )
Ganny and C. Falcon in Brawl... I'm not sure what to say with those. Given the skill level has to be "kicked down" a notch due to unpredictable Final Smashes and tripping, I don't know what to say on THAT behalf. But I'm sure a C. Falcon/Ganon mainer out there is destroying an excellent MK mainer... somewhere.

As noted, it's all in what you believe. I prefer to think on the lines of 2, wherein "Practice makes perfect... and if that doesn't work, keep trucking beyond it." Keep going at it, you'll top the competition. It's a hard view to try and discredit... A player lost? They weren't good enough with whatever character. MORE PLAYING. (Probably the only real flaw with it is that mindset.)

Still. Just what I notice. :3

Mewtwo for SSB4.
Adeleine wouldn't hurt, either. >.>

 

[Wolfric]

If you're a believer in 2, then yes, I suppose that would be the statistics. >_> (And there HAVE been a few shots of Taj or other good Mewtwo mainers defeating some nicely played Fox's and Marth's... Of course, I don't keep track of all that stuff as I'm not a big fan of all this competitive discussion, so I wouldn't know who they were or where to find said videos. YouTube is always a good place, though. )
Ganny and C. Falcon in Brawl... I'm not sure what to say with those. Given the skill level has to be "kicked down" a notch due to unpredictable Final Smashes and tripping, I don't know what to say on THAT behalf. But I'm sure a C. Falcon/Ganon mainer out there is destroying an excellent MK mainer... somewhere.

As noted, it's all in what you believe. I prefer to think on the lines of 2, wherein "Practice makes perfect... and if that doesn't work, keep trucking beyond it." Keep going at it, you'll top the competition. It's a hard view to try and discredit... A player lost? They weren't good enough with whatever character. MORE PLAYING. (Probably the only real flaw with it is that mindset.)

Still. Just what I notice. :3

Mewtwo for SSB4.
Adeleine wouldn't hurt, either. >.>

Really, I understand what you're saying, like, on Melee, my main's always been Zelda, but since N64 I've used Link, so I use Zelda/Link 40/40 and /20 for Roy, in Melee and brawl, even thought Link is not THAT good in Brawl(Nor is Zelda, NOR is Roy), but hey, there's love for them and there's no way I'd main a diferent char than them! Same with me and Mewtwo, that's why I want it back on Brawl, but not as he was.

My point was from the beginning, there MIGHT be people that knows how to play them, and most of the time they win because they can anticipate their opponent, and know what will come, what I meant with my post was, Mewtwo needs some fixes, same with Link itself, I don't know if you Mewtwo mains like it the way it is and don't want it changed, but i'd like less slowness on some attacks and a bit more priority(Just look at how Ganon and C. Falcon ended up, it's not PLAYERS' faults obviously!)

 

[sundayseclipse]

Then get me the vid of a Capt. Falcon or Ganondorf beating M2K and I'll believe that

what douse that have to do with anything. dont bring any 1 in this especialy mk. he has skill with meta some dont some ppl have skill with olimar some dont. dont make excuses of why u suck with characters that u cant use,

 

[sandbags06]

why are yo arguing about mewtwo's strength in melee? characters are not the same in every smash game. pikachu was top tier and super good in the original, as was ness and kirby. were they top tier in melee? no.

correct me if im wrong but this is a ssb 4 DISCUSSION thread right? so, maybe you should DISCUSS things that you wold like in ssb 4, not ARGUE about a characters potential in previous installments.

sure mewtwo wasnt in brawl. boo hoo. i wanted him there as well did a lot of other people. so say you want him in ssb 4 and leave it at that, because that is the point of this thread, correct? just because he "sucked" in melee does not mean he would suck in ssb 4. and due to the fact that several of his unique moves were given to new character in brawl (lucas' dsmash and nair, wolfs fair, lucario's neutral b) probably means if he makes it into ssb 4 his moveset will change drastically.

so stop arguing about insignificant facts of the past and look to the future, and discuss and brainstorm some ideas that you think would help inovate and improve the franchise. arguing is pointless and gets you nowhere.

 

[Steelia]

My point was from the beginning, there MIGHT be people that knows how to play them, and most of the time they win because they can anticipate their opponent, and know what will come, what I meant with my post was, Mewtwo needs some fixes, same with Link itself, I don't know if you Mewtwo mains like it the way it is and don't want it changed, but i'd like less slowness on some attacks and a bit more priority(Just look at how Ganon and C. Falcon ended up, it's not PLAYERS' faults obviously!)

Right... For the sake of a more "casual" character, I agree he should be changed up. The amount of skill required just to play him in tourneys, from what I've seen, seems pretty daunting. As a casual, B-spamming character, he's plenty fun, but in the competitive realm he's... Well, he has some faults.
But I hold firm that his weakpoints can be overlooked so long as he's used properly. It can go for any character.

why are yo arguing about mewtwo's strength in melee? characters are not the same in every smash game. pikachu was top tier and super good in the original, as was ness and kirby. were they top tier in melee? no.

correct me if im wrong but this is a ssb 4 DISCUSSION thread right? so, maybe you should DISCUSS things that you wold like in ssb 4, not ARGUE about a characters potential in previous installments.

sure mewtwo wasnt in brawl. boo hoo. i wanted him there as well did a lot of other people. so say you want him in ssb 4 and leave it at that, because that is the point of this thread, correct? just because he "sucked" in melee does not mean he would suck in ssb 4. and due to the fact that several of his unique moves were given to new character in brawl (lucas' dsmash and nair, wolfs fair, lucario's neutral b) probably means if he makes it into ssb 4 his moveset will change drastically.

so stop arguing about insignificant facts of the past and look to the future, and discuss and brainstorm some ideas that you think would help inovate and improve the franchise. arguing is pointless and gets you nowhere.

Erm, you must've just jumped into this conversation, sandbags06. More times than once have we brought up how we want Mewtwo to be a better character in SSB4 than how he was in Melee. We're just using a lot of elements from Melee to point out faults, or how he was good but could be made better, and so on.
We're on topic... You probably just noticed the words "Melee" and "Brawl" moreso than "SSB4". Let me put it this way: If you see "make into a better character", we're probably referring to "make [Mewtwo] into a better character [in SSB4]".

...And to top it as normal, Mewtwo for SSB4. And a LOT less Kirby representation. (Not roster-wise or anything, just make Adventure Mode less Kirby-oriented... and the Kirby characters less godly... and all the fighting styles less Kirby-cluttered [bouncing off of people's heads came from Kirby game; some moves for characters {Link} came from Kirby; the 2nd-player-is-too-far-away-so-teleport mechanic in SSE was from Kirby games; items from Kirby {Dragoon} become much more balanced; etc.].)

 

[Wolfric]

what douse that have to do with anything. dont bring any 1 in this especialy mk. he has skill with meta some dont some ppl have skill with olimar some dont. dont make excuses of why u suck with characters that u cant use,

Get me the vid of C. Falcon of Ganon BEATING M2K, and I'll believe your point, as for me, there's NO WAY any C. Falcon or Ganon would beat his MK, or any other MK of the top 5, why? simply because their matchups sucks, not because of players, because of the character, so as long a syou don't find me that vid, your point of "players fauls if he loses" is invalid.

Right... For the sake of a more "casual" character, I agree he should be changed up. The amount of skill required just to play him in tourneys, from what I've seen, seems pretty daunting. As a casual, B-spamming character, he's plenty fun, but in the competitive realm he's... Well, he has some faults.
But I hold firm that his weakpoints can be overlooked so long as he's used properly. It can go for any character.



Erm, you must've just jumped into this conversation, sandbags06. More times than once have we brought up how we want Mewtwo to be a better character in SSB4 than how he was in Melee. We're just using a lot of elements from Melee to point out faults, or how he was good but could be made better, and so on.
We're on topic... You probably just noticed the words "Melee" and "Brawl" moreso than "SSB4". Let me put it this way: If you see "make into a better character", we're probably referring to "make [Mewtwo] into a better character [in SSB4]".

...And to top it as normal, Mewtwo for SSB4. And a LOT less Kirby representation. (Not roster-wise or anything, just make Adventure Mode less Kirby-oriented... and the Kirby characters less godly... and all the fighting styles less Kirby-cluttered [bouncing off of people's heads came from Kirby game; some moves for characters {Link} came from Kirby; the 2nd-player-is-too-far-away-so-teleport mechanic in SSE was from Kirby games; items from Kirby {Dragoon} become much more balanced; etc.].)

You already got what I meant, that's what I was trying to say from the beginning, Mewtwo is nice, but he's a character that's not properly balanced, therefore, easy match for many, same happens for Ganon and C. Falcon now in Brawl, and that's NOT players fault, even thought it may have a little effect. I just want Mewtwo a bit more balanced, and he SHOULD be back, his moveset is lovely, and I l loved his up b and dodge invisibility, he's nothing like Lucario, other than they both have their own movies, Mewtwo is a must for SSB4, I can bet he'd be wanted back more than Lucario.

 

[Steelia]

You already got what I meant, that's what I was trying to say from the beginning, Mewtwo is nice, but he's a character that's not properly balanced, therefore, easy match for many, same happens for Ganon and C. Falcon now in Brawl, and that's NOT players fault, even thought it may have a little effect. I just want Mewtwo a bit more balanced, and he SHOULD be back, his moveset is lovely, and I l loved his up b and dodge invisibility, he's nothing like Lucario, other than they both have their own movies, Mewtwo is a must for SSB4, I can bet he'd be wanted back more than Lucario.

I got you.
As for his support... well... I suppose whenever SSB4 rolls around, his hidden fanbase will spring into action. You really don't see too many people saying much about Mewtwo (probably because a lot of Smash nubs were introduced via SSBB, so they're more familiar with Lucario, and because SSB4's probably years off)... But hey, if Geno fans could pop out of nowhere to skyrocket his reputation, why not.
I'm amazed at the amount of support Roy has been getting as well... I honestly didn't think people were so into him, even with him being a clone (the same could be said for Doc, as he was "the better Mario," according to many). Pichu and YL also have a surprising amount of support... Who knows. I'm really hoping people will speak up during SSB4 time and stick to their guns for these guys to return. Time was the ONLY thing that prevented Doc, Roy and Mewtwo from returning in Brawl... They obviously had some kind of importance to Sakurai if they were considered as such.

Here's to Mewtwo and other cut characters returning.
And that Sakurai actually considers more than 1 character off of our emailed wishlists/requests whenever he calls for VOTING TIME *coughSoniccough*.

 

[Wolfric]

Roy is a clone, Marth is a clone as well, he just picked up which clone was most played I suppose, but I always liked Roy more, I dunno, maybe his edge camping with B charged was too much fun, also having that take 50% damage full charged hahah, as in Doc, as my friend says(Doc main) the pills made the diference, having them bounce hits the enemy with more chance, that interrupts enemy's attack and he lands hi easier, as he says.

As in YL, I only like Link, I dislike any other Link in Smash, I dunno, that's just me (QQ).

As in SSB4, I'd love to have Mewtwo and Roy back, and get Megaman as well!

 

[Shadow Huan]

I'm back! And I'm behind!!!! >.<

I never said he can't win! I enjoy playing with him as well, even thought I main Zelda, and Sheik when needed,, thought, it's rough when you fight against a Sheik or Fox as he is, his moveset is great, but with more power it WOULD compensate his slowness, that's what I mean.

Depends on the skill levels sir. i've trashed some pretty technical Foxes with Mewtwo. doesn't mean that it's not a hard match-up if the Fox approaches it the right way though...

any way wat system do you think ssb4 will be on

Wii 2 probably.

A clone? Of who? Samus? Who blurted THIS blasphemy? I can take Lucario being a clone of Mewtwo, but Mewtwo...

Ohhhh, I see. It was a trick question.
Mewtwo is a clone of Mew.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

(He IS badace, though. )



Hmm. My opinion on this kind of thinking clashes with... this kind of thinking.
There are two ways you can look at it.

1) Mewtwo is a bad character.
This seems to be the most supported view, and rightfully so, if you can't play a character as casually as, say, a rampant Fox or Marth, then that makes them horrid.
However...

2) You (the player) need work.
That's right, You. The player. For most, this would be considered a matter of pride. How good are YOU at Mewtwo? Is Mewtwo really a horrible, horrible character, or are you just not good with him?
Truth be told, I love to play as Mewtwo... As such, he's become one of my better characters. But I completely SUCK as Fox. Fox AND Marth. But why is it I cannot call those two "bad characters"? I can't win matches with them. They must be bad!

...You get my point hopefully. >.>

Again, something I've noted for the longest time, two completely clashing views.
Mewtwo supporters (and the users of the lower tiers) seem to go more for 2.
Others, preferring not to give that much thought into the whole process, normally go with 1.
Both seem reasonable enough. Guess it's just a matter of taste (and pride).

...In any which case, for the sake of casual playing, a reworked Mewtwo for Smash Bros. 4.
And PLEASE bring back some of the older N64 stages. Those were fun, too. ):

In my experience, 1 and 2 are both applicable. If only the cat was heavier for cripes sakes.

I understand what you're saying, however, if it's option 2, then 95%of the players need to learn to play? and only 5% can control the GREATLY powered Mewtwo? that's wrong. Show me a vid of Taj or anyother good Mewtwo beating the top player of Marth from SSBM, or beating top Sheik/Fox then I'll believe that point.(I know it's impossible to get the vid, it's just a saying) There's no way that could happen, and if it does, then that Mewtwo player is inmortal, that's like you showing me a vid of the top Capt. Falcon or Ganondorf main(Brawl) beating the top Metaknight player(M2K I think it's spelled?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDiPOxg8igE&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qleu9Dw8Vqo&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u89hqpmQwqE

No one beats M2K... barring Ken in Melee. the guy's a robot. though M2K and Taj have promised rematches...

You already got what I meant, that's what I was trying to say from the beginning, Mewtwo is nice, but he's a character that's not properly balanced, therefore, easy match for many, same happens for Ganon and C. Falcon now in Brawl, and that's NOT players fault, even thought it may have a little effect. I just want Mewtwo a bit more balanced, and he SHOULD be back, his moveset is lovely, and I l loved his up b and dodge invisibility, he's nothing like Lucario, other than they both have their own movies, Mewtwo is a must for SSB4, I can bet he'd be wanted back more than Lucario.

Already is lol...

Roy is a clone, Marth is a clone as well, he just picked up which clone was most played I suppose, but I always liked Roy more, I dunno, maybe his edge camping with B charged was too much fun, also having that take 50% damage full charged hahah, as in Doc, as my friend says(Doc main) the pills made the diference, having them bounce hits the enemy with more chance, that interrupts enemy's attack and he lands hi easier, as he says.

As in YL, I only like Link, I dislike any other Link in Smash, I dunno, that's just me (QQ).

As in SSB4, I'd love to have Mewtwo and Roy back, and get Megaman as well!

Doc has an easier time killing than Mario. moves are better for that.

Megaman would be awesome. Bowser's Castle would be awesome. Mewtwo and roy WILL be awesome... ect...

 

[SirKibble]

And a LOT less Kirby representation. (Not roster-wise or anything, just make Adventure Mode less Kirby-oriented... and the Kirby characters less godly... and all the fighting styles less Kirby-cluttered [bouncing off of people's heads came from Kirby game; some moves for characters {Link} came from Kirby; the 2nd-player-is-too-far-away-so-teleport mechanic in SSE was from Kirby games; items from Kirby {Dragoon} become much more balanced; etc.].)

The director of the games has been and most likely will continue to be the guy who created Kirby. You are aware of this, yes? A lot of this is his tried-and-true stuff from Kirby Super Star. He's not disallowed from recycling ideas that have worked for him before. You want him to think up a new way to deal with a second player every time he directs a game or something?

As far as stuff like "the Kirby characters less godly" goes, I feel like I've said this at least a million times in this thread: Sakurai does not intentionally construct the tier list the way it is. Heck, I doubt he even knows about it. Meta Knight's top spot and Dedede's high one are NOT intentional on his part. That's simply ridiculous.

Oh, and concerning the items, how are the Kirby items unbalanced? Dragoon: powerful, but requires three pieces before it can be used, and is fairly easy to dodge anyway; Warp Star: powerful, but slow and predictable, with a limited range; Maxim Tomato: second-best healing item in the game. Go complain about the Heart Container if you have a problem with this one; Superspicy Curry: easy-to-use, weak-damage attack, nothing wrong there; Star Rod: normal battering item with potential for limited-ammo projectiles.

Yeah, I guess I missed the unbalanced part, especially when you consider Brawl's entire item set...

 

[Steelia]

The director of the games has been and most likely will continue to be the guy who created Kirby. You are aware of this, yes? A lot of this is his tried-and-true stuff from Kirby Super Star. He's not disallowed from recycling ideas that have worked for him before. You want him to think up a new way to deal with a second player every time he directs a game or something?

As far as stuff like "the Kirby characters less godly" goes, I feel like I've said this at least a million times in this thread: Sakurai does not intentionally construct the tier list the way it is. Heck, I doubt he even knows about it. Meta Knight's top spot and Dedede's high one are NOT intentional on his part. That's simply ridiculous.

Oh, and concerning the items, how are the Kirby items unbalanced? Dragoon: powerful, but requires three pieces before it can be used, and is fairly easy to dodge anyway; Warp Star: powerful, but slow and predictable, with a limited range; Maxim Tomato: second-best healing item in the game. Go complain about the Heart Container if you have a problem with this one; Superspicy Curry: easy-to-use, weak-damage attack, nothing wrong there; Star Rod: normal battering item with potential for limited-ammo projectiles.

Yeah, I guess I missed the unbalanced part, especially when you consider Brawl's entire item set...

I'm completely aware that Sakurai is Sir Kirby Creator, which is why I bring up his rather "biased takeover" on the Smash World. Once you dig deeper, the amount of Kirby elements... become more and more apparent. (Why is it MK's the only character with glowing eyes? Why is it when Kirby hits the ground, he's the only one with a special star effect? Etc.) Of course, other characters (a la Lucario) have their own special attributes, and of course since Sakurai knows Kirby like the back of his hand he'd know how to work them to make them good. This doesn't hide the fact that SSE was far too centered around his Kirby gang, nor are any of the Kirby-related items any weaker... Or, at least, one in particular.
With your points on Warpstar, Dragoon and whatnot, all the items have their weaknesses. Warpstar was toned down from Melee (that thing was much quicker back then), so I can't say much for it here. But Dragoon? Seriously, a 1-hit-KO item that just doesn't stop spawning after it has shown up on the battlefield... Why aren't there any other items from other series' that pull that?
I don't have a problem with any of the other Kirby items, really, just Dragoon in general. It seems to stand out above the item crowd (before Final Smashes and MAYBE the Golden Hammer). You can't tell me you wouldn't try to collect Dragoon pieces over picking up a Hammer or a Homerun Bat these days.

Still. The creator has every right to make the game how he wants. And, unfortunately, Sakurai seems to be taking on that just fine . . . I'm sure he didn't mean to make MK and Dedede as good as they are, as you noted; even I thought they lacked a lot of power when I first gave them a go (you'd be surprised how far people can take fighters and make them magnificent or downright refutable). Pure coincidence. But now that we see what powers these characters possess is why I noted previously that I would like the Kirby characters "less godly". How well they performed SHOULD catch even Sakurai's attention at a future time whenever/if he constructs SSB4. ("Meta Knight banned from tournaments for being completely broken!")

...In any case, less Kirby-esque Adventure Mode, more Mewtwo for next Smash Bros. 4, please.

 

[SirKibble]

Actually, I would much rather get a Hammer or a Home-Run Bat than attempt to assemble the Dragoon. Why? First of all, I only need to grab one before they start to take effect. The damage you can deal with a single Hammer or by throwing the Home-Run Bat is ridiculous. And like I said earlier, the Dragoon strike isn't all that hard to spot-dodge. As far as your question about why aren't there items from other series like that...would you really want more than one item like that in the set?

So, let me get this straight: you're frustrated that the Kirby characters...are true-to-character? Meta Knight has glowing eyes. Surely you can't be asking for other characters to randomly be given glowing eyes. I'll grant you your point about the SSE focusing a lot on Kirby characters, with the Halberd being a major location and with Dedede and Kirby essentially saving everyone, but in all fairness, wouldn't you at least be tempted to do the same? Sakurai isn't just some guy who worked on Kirby games, he's the very creator of them. These characters are his ideas made real. I think it's more than a little natural to give your own creations a little more spotlight time than they really deserve.

Now that you clarify your point about making them "less godly," I can understand what you're saying. I won't go as far as to say that I think Sakurai should take note of tournament results and such, because I doubt he really cares too much, but if it is brought to his attention, it's something he should take note of and at least attempt to have corrected.

 

[Wolfric]

He's the creator, he can do as he pleases, thought, I don't want SSB to end up as Capcom vs SNK, where Capcom characters were way MORE buffed up than SNK's, that would kill the game, I really think it wasn't on purpose he made King DDD and meta Knight that way, at least, I hope so.

 

[Mythic02]

Hi, I'm back.

First of all, mewtwo and lucario are about as similar as pikachu and mario. PIkachu's B hops on the ground, Mario's B hops on the ground. Lucario just stole Mewtwo's neutral B. They are very different.

Second of all, Steelia, i think it is a bit of both. A good player can make any character good. Just look at Taj. But, some character's naturally have an advantage. Can Captain Falcon beat Metaknight, yes, is it likely, probably not. Some characters aren't as good as others, but it doesn't mean mewtwo sucks.

I think we should bring back mewtwo, but buff him up. Also, change his side B a bit, either give it knockback or make it like a superlong mario cape, so it turns close opponents around and the reflected projectiles can do damage.

 

[sundayseclipse]

im sorry wolf your an idiot
mk2,taj has hardly any loses. some char r unbalanced for advance char use only. its on the players skills not how balanced char are.
changing back to subject
sakurai will forever favor kirby thats why i want a co director thats not a push over and can keep ssb4 to its roots.(more of a supervisor who has high ranking nintendo offical)
if ssb4 is on wii2(wii revolution i think is the name) i want it to have stellar graphics, and go back to regular controller.(i hate wii remotes it should be used on games that involving moving)

 

[majora_787]

Okay, lightly skimming the enormous walls of text and the irrelevant insults toward a certain system from a certain poster who can't type with very good grammar...

Roy. I want to get on the subject of Marth and Roy a little bit. In SSB4, since Shadow Dragon came out, Marth is probably gonna get an english voice actor. Who do you guys want to do the honors?

And what about Roy? I'm SURE they will remake Sword of Seals / Binding Blade / whatever for us as well, which would put him in a good position to make a comeback. Also with an english voice actor.

 

[sandbags06]

im sorry wolf your an idiot
mk2,taj has hardly any loses. some char r unbalanced for advance char use only. its on the players skills not how balanced char are.
changing back to subject
sakurai will forever favor kirby thats why i want a co director thats not a push over and can keep ssb4 to its roots.(more of a supervisor who has high ranking nintendo offical)
if ssb4 is on wii2(wii revolution i think is the name) i want it to have stellar graphics, and go back to regular controller.(i hate wii remotes it should be used on games that involving moving)

first of all, yes player skill is important, but character ballance is verry important. I'm pretty good with Ness in regular brawl, and I SUCK with MK as far as MK players go, but if I were to clone myself and play my Ness vs my MK I am 100% sure my MK would beat my Ness, and i have played maybe 150 matches with MK whereas I have played at least 1,000 with ness and have taken the time to learn all of his advanced techniques. SO basically you are wrong. I have skill with Ness, and none with MK, but yet I am positive my MK would beat my Ness. Your argument has just ben proven wrong.

I doubt Sakurai will wor on SSB4. He already stated he does not like working on the same game/project for too long. So, given that the smash community is hacking the game to make it "better" (I no longer play Brawl, I only play+) I think he may have "messed up" intentionally to get negative feedback from the public so Nintendo wont put him on the project again. There's my conspiracy theory lol.

I don't feel like typing anymore. Anyways, the point of this is do your research, learn how to use propper grammer, and try to learn how to formulate an argument if you want to be taken seriously. And don't call anyone names, just because you are a smash child on this site doesn't mean you have to act like one.

 

[Shadow Huan]

Hi, I'm back.

First of all, mewtwo and lucario are about as similar as pikachu and mario. PIkachu's B hops on the ground, Mario's B hops on the ground. Lucario just stole Mewtwo's neutral B. They are very different.

Second of all, Steelia, i think it is a bit of both. A good player can make any character good. Just look at Taj. But, some character's naturally have an advantage. Can Captain Falcon beat Metaknight, yes, is it likely, probably not. Some characters aren't as good as others, but it doesn't mean mewtwo sucks.

I think we should bring back mewtwo, but buff him up. Also, change his side B a bit, either give it knockback or make it like a superlong mario cape, so it turns close opponents around and the reflected projectiles can do damage.

1: At last, someone else who sees the Lucario and Mewtwo "comparasion" the right way.

2: Mewtwo's not a good character. This is something that even Taj will tell you. HOWEVER, Mewtwo is underrated. I personally don't think he should be where he is in the teirs. He's better than Bowser (Whom I also play) but is ranked beneath him. Mewtwo should at least be juuuuuuust below G&W, who is technically better cause of his awesome priority. that means M2 for LOW teir, not bottom. Just because Taj can play Mewtwo like a high teir doesn't mean the rest of us can... yet.

3: how about replacing his side B with something hard to learn that fits him better? And for GOD SAKES... get rid of Disable!!!!

EDIT... the reflected projectiles will hurt other characters btw... sometimes with nearly double the damage. I've been told it's an incomplete code in the game.

im sorry wolf your an idiot
mk2,taj has hardly any loses. some char r unbalanced for advance char use only. its on the players skills not how balanced char are.
changing back to subject
sakurai will forever favor kirby thats why i want a co director thats not a push over and can keep ssb4 to its roots.(more of a supervisor who has high ranking nintendo offical)
if ssb4 is on wii2(wii revolution i think is the name) i want it to have stellar graphics, and go back to regular controller.(i hate wii remotes it should be used on games that involving moving)

Last time I looked Brawl's graphics aren't bad or anything.

And you can play Brawl with a GC controller can't you???

Okay, lightly skimming the enormous walls of text and the irrelevant insults toward a certain system from a certain poster who can't type with very good grammar...

Roy. I want to get on the subject of Marth and Roy a little bit. In SSB4, since Shadow Dragon came out, Marth is probably gonna get an english voice actor. Who do you guys want to do the honors?

And what about Roy? I'm SURE they will remake Sword of Seals / Binding Blade / whatever for us as well, which would put him in a good position to make a comeback. Also with an english voice actor.

A de-cloned Roy wouldn't break my heart in the slightest.

 

[sandbags06]

i just thought of something i want. if goldeen comes out of a pokeball, and somehow flops into water, or is hit by a water attack like squirtles b, she should unleash an intant kill homing attack...

or better yet, change goldeen into magikarp, who will automatically start flopping towards a body of water, and if he falls in he evolves into gyrarados and patrols the water to get instant KO's for the remainder of the match.... gyrados on the ship level would be ridiculous lol.

A de-cloned Roy wouldn't break my heart in the slightest.

Ike? (with the exception of his up b)

 

[sundayseclipse]

dude im gona ignore you breaking my argument due to the fact that its sci fi based and its the skills of others against yours not yours against your own. again proving my argument correct and how any body can be good with a character who has inballnace. and due to the fact that u insulted me becuase of my rank on a formum is pathetic. now getting away from my argument and on to the next subject. (i can see how u can say hes bad but its just an opionion some ppl dont think so)

ever since the remake of the first FE game(name escapes me at the moment) marth probably well and roy well also more likely get his own move set. fire based but more independint from ikes to makeh im less likely to be a clone.
b. he holds his sword in at a 90 degree angle coming down swinging it in a 280 degrees angle.
s.b. intacts his sword in your heart. if he douse it 3 times you must deal 20+ damage to him before the timer goes off or you blow up and get an after affect
d.b. typical reflect
fs he gets a chain throws it up in the air and a pegeaus soldier binds u and he hops up on the pegeaus and he comes down from the sky using his regular b x10 hits u were ure bind in chains.
(i made it on the spot)

yes but compared to the graphics on PS3 and X-BOX the wii's graphics are kinda sad. im just saying the wii can improve its graphics and should have its own hand based and a bit less interactive remote.(wii2)

nice magic carp suggestion.=D

 

[mskusu]

ever since the remake of the first FE game(name escapes me at the moment) marth probably well and roy well also more likely get his own move set. fire based but more independint from ikes to makeh im less likely to be a clone.

Okay, I'm having a little trouble reading this, but I think you're saying that because the first FE game has been remade, Marth and Roy will get their own movesets?

1. Marth already has his own moveset.
2. Roy doesn't have anything to do with Shadow Dragon.

b. he holds his sword in at a 90 degree angle coming down swinging it in a 280 degrees angle.
s.b. intacts his sword in your heart. if he douse it 3 times you must deal 20+ damage to him before the timer goes off or you blow up and get an after affect What? What kind of aftereffect? You have to deal 20+ damage or you blow up? All he has to do is execute this move where he "intacts" his sword into your heart three times, run away and wait for you to blow up. Oh, and intact is not a verb.
d.b. typical reflect
fs he gets a chain throws it up in the air and a pegeaus soldier binds u and he hops up on the pegeaus and he comes down from the sky using his regular b x10 hits u were ure bind in chains. So a pegasus soldier ties you up, he jumps on the pegasus with the soldier and then comes down from the sky on the pegasus using his neutral B 10 times? Wat?
(i made it on the spot) (I can tell)

Spoiler

P.S. lrn2grammar

 

[Steelia]

i just thought of something i want. if goldeen comes out of a pokeball, and somehow flops into water, or is hit by a water attack like squirtles b, she should unleash an intant kill homing attack...

or better yet, change goldeen into magikarp, who will automatically start flopping towards a body of water, and if he falls in he evolves into gyrarados and patrols the water to get instant KO's for the remainder of the match.... gyrados on the ship level would be ridiculous lol.

Wasn't that a rumor once? That if you get Goldeen in the water of DK's Kongo stage Goldeen would become an instant 1-hit KO? Heh, it would make sense, that Horn Drill... Good times, good times.
You'd think they WOULD have Magikarp, though. Magikarp takes the cake.

But, as usual, Mewtwo and the other Fallen Fighters to return in SSB4.
Hopefully GAME FREAK isn't as "hard to work with" this time around. >_>

 

[Wolfric]

im sorry wolf your an idiot
mk2,taj has hardly any loses. some char r unbalanced for advance char use only. its on the players skills not how balanced char are.
changing back to subject
sakurai will forever favor kirby thats why i want a co director thats not a push over and can keep ssb4 to its roots.(more of a supervisor who has high ranking nintendo offical)
if ssb4 is on wii2(wii revolution i think is the name) i want it to have stellar graphics, and go back to regular controller.(i hate wii remotes it should be used on games that involving moving)

I'm an idiot for saying you're never going to meet any C. Falcon or Ganon beating one of the top 5 MKs? And if C. Falcon or Ganon loses against a MK is their players' fault?

If that's so, then I'm the most stupid in here.

On another hand:

If Mewtwo is a clone of Lucario, Lucario is a clone of Samus as well, since the 3 of them only have 1 ATTACK in common, B charge, that does not make them clones, and even so, Mewtwo had his B charge with an awesome zig-zag effect which made it special. I really don't know what make you think Mewtwo is a clone of Lucario and vice versa, I surely can say that if that's your argument, then you haven't played Lucario and Mewtwo and you're just making random arguments.

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

People still think Lucario is a Mewtwo clone?
LOL.
2 moves out of 10+ moves doesn't make a clone.
Thats like calling Fox and Wolf clones. The only clone is Toon Link.

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

...Not that Toon Link is bad or anything

 

[Wolfric]

...Not that Toon Link is bad or anything

Better leave it clear before they bump you hahah

 

[Steelia]

People still think Lucario is a Mewtwo clone?
LOL.
2 moves out of 10+ moves doesn't make a clone.
Thats like calling Fox and Wolf clones. The only clone is Toon Link.

Toon Link's definitely the cloniest character in Brawl... Others that come semi-close are Ganondorf and Lucas (sharing similar B-moves and some standard moves), Falco topping those two. Jiggs also, if you really want to go that far. Wolf has similar-ish B moves to Fox/Falco, but that's really all he has going for him. Falco's still "worse" than he is.
And if Lucario is a Mewtwo clone... might as well throw in Ike, because if you can consider Lucario a Mewtwo clone, then I suppose Ike's a Roy clone, what with the two of them having swords, needing to hit nearer to the center for better strength rather than the tips, and fire. Only fair, right?

Yet again, Mewtwo and his Fallen Company for SSB4.
Deoxys and Darkrai wouldn't hurt either. Oh, Deoxys, how you disappointed me. "Now, this one is popular..." Words I will never forget.

 

[sundayseclipse]

wolf just give up
sorry im on the internet on my wii. what i ment was marth will get a english voice actor. roy will get his own move set if put in.
it well takes longer and longer to charge each time using it. scratch it 5+ damage to not be affected by the attack. its like the gooey bomb but more powerful. causes more flinches
fs yah he ties you up then roy hops on the pegeaus. flies up. points sword straight up on the horizon above clouds.(sun gives it more fire...and it looks wiked).you jump off pegeasus and u come down hiting the chained people with a fiery blazed attack, making them fly of the stage. its x10 is times 10 powerful not 10 times
=D better

wolf, do you think anybody becomes a MK just by having a good char and playing as them. no they have to get good with one which takes....idk skill. any body can be good at ssb with any character if they train with it.
btw what douse training increase. thats right it increses skill of the player.
i advise you to give up before you make a fool out of your self.=)

 

[Slithe]

These are just some of, but generally, the things I'd want to see in the next installment of SSB:
1. Better online play
- Voice chat
- More customization options to choose from for a match in With Anyone rather than just choosing items
- Use of names in With Anyone
- Choice between ranked and non-ranked matches
- LEADERBOARDS (Seriously Sakurai, grow some balls already and make gameplay more competitive! Just because it's competitive doesn't mean it can't be fun)
2. More effort put into 1-Player Modes
- Break the Targets
- Event Match
3. Even better graphics
4. Even more characters
- Bomberman
- Dixie Kong
- Krystal
- Megaman
- Etc.
5. This as a Final Smash for C. Falcon:
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw