[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Roy-Kun]

12 Chars!

That's a lot better than I thought. I ask for only one character by franchise. NO THIRD PARTIES DAMMIT

Yes. That would be epic.

 

[ChronoBound]

12 Chars!

That's a lot better than I thought. I ask for only one character by franchise. NO THIRD PARTIES DAMMIT

Yes. That would be epic.

Hmmm. How about only important characters from franchises (no series outside of Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon would be allowed more than two slots). and I agree on no third-parties.

With these rules, this would be Brawl's roster:

Mario
Luigi (he may be a sidekick, but he's an iconic sidekick)
Bowser
Peach (iconic as well)
Donkey Kong
Yoshi
Wario
Link
Zelda
Ganondorf
Samus
Pit
Ice Climbers
ROB
Kirby
King Dedede (he's basically the closest thing to being the series antagonist, though he is rarely ever the final boss)
Olimar
Fox
Captain Falcon
Pikachu
Jigglypuff (only because she was part of the original 12)
Pokemon Trainer (since he is basically the hero of Pokemon)
Marth
Ness
Mr. Game&Watch

That's 25 characters from Brawl.

Let's try to do a 35 slot roster.

Let's see which 10 newcomers would apply with your rules Roy-Kun:

Ridley (main antagonist of Metroid and is iconic)
K. Rool (main antagonist of DK)
Paper Mario (would count as part of his own series)
Ray (Custom Robo)
Isaac (Golden Sun)
Stafy (Legend of Stafy)
Little Mac (Punch-Out)
Lip (Panel de Pon/Puzzle League)
Will (Advance Wars)
Mii (Wii series)

35 character roster, 39 including transformations. I think some may even agree its better than Brawl's roster. Though I would be upset over a lack of Roy and Ike, but still...

What do you think Roy-Kun?

 

[flyinfilipino]

I think some may even agree its better than Brawl's roster.

This guy wouldn't.

 

[Vect0r]

Ridley shouldn't be anything more than a boss character. He's too big, and really not that iconic.

 

[ChronoBound]

This guy wouldn't.

Broken-Knight can shove it for destroying Brawl's metagame.

Ridley shouldn't be anything more than a boss character. He's too big, and really not that iconic.

Ridley is much more popular than you think. Really, he is probably the third most well-known Nintendo villain, behind only Bowser and Ganondorf themselves.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Broken-Knight can shove it for destroying Brawl's metagame.

Ridley is much more popular than you think. Really, he is probably the third most well-known Nintendo villain, behind only Bowser and Ganondorf themselves.

*shrug* Who's to say that Paper Mario wouldn't be the "broken" character in your imaginary Brawl roster? For some reason, I doubt that you really care much about the metagame

Ridley being the third most famous Nintendo villain is questionable, IMHO.

 

[justaway12]

Aren't Snake and Meta-knight kind of popular.

 

[Red Arremer]

Ridley shouldn't be anything more than a boss character. He's too big, and really not that iconic.

I thought we were above that "too big" already.
Ridley was in the polls second after Sonic, so I doubt he isn't that iconic. At least he's more iconic than, let's say... FALCO. Or Meta Knight. Or Ness. Or Lucas. Or Marth. Or Captain Falcon. Or Ike. Or Wolf. Or Fox. Or Sheik. Or all of the Retro characters. Shall I go on?

I would like you to go onto this blog:
http://chiefmendez.wordpress.com/super-smash-bros-4/

And read the "Newcomers" section, specifically the Ridley one. M'kay?

Ridley being the third most famous Nintendo villain is questionable, IMHO.

Who would you think, is the most famous Nintendo villain after Bowser and Ganon? Dedede? K.Rool?
Or rather, behind whom would you think would Ridley place?

 

[ChronoBound]

Aren't Snake and Meta-knight kind of popular.

It was a list based on importance within franchises and it also omitted third-parties, which is why Meta Knight and Snake are absent.

 

[justaway12]

It was a list based on importance within franchises and it also omitted third-parties, which is why Meta Knight and Snake are absent.

Yes I understand that and I know that you aren't basing it in the actual roster but i'm just saying people might be mad if they aren't included but whatever.

 

[Ochobobo]

I doubt Snake'll be left out as long as Hideo Kojima "practically begs" for Snake to be in Smash Bros.

And as for Sonic, he was the most-wanted character for Brawl, so Nintendo would likely appear very foolish indeed if they him out of the next installment. Though they might have to make another game like "Mario and Sonic at the Olympics" to make Sega happy.

 

[ChronoBound]

Yes I understand that and I know that you aren't basing it in the actual roster but i'm just saying people might be mad if they aren't included but whatever.

There is a lot of people mad that Mewtwo and Roy weren't included in Brawl. In the hypothetical that me and Roy-Kun posted, a lot of people would be angry, however, it could be for the greater good by Smash 5 or Smash 6.

 

[justaway12]

There is a lot of people mad that Mewtwo and Roy weren't included in Brawl. In the hypothetical that me and Roy-Kun posted, a lot of people would be angry, however, it could be for the greater good by Smash 5 or Smash 6.

Yes but wasn't the reason that roy was cut was because he wasn't popular and/or there was more popular/recent characters and the reason that mewtwo was cut because the pokemon comany wanted to advertise the recent pokemon or something like that.... correct me if im wrong.

I MIGHT understand meta-knight slightly but I see no reason for Snake.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Who would you think, is the most famous Nintendo villain after Bowser and Ganon? Dedede? K.Rool?
Or rather, behind whom would you think would Ridley place?

You're right, I would probably put Ridley on the same level as King Dedede or King K. Rool. There's a really blurry line there. Heck, some people even consider Wario and Mewtwo villains.

opinions opinions

 

[ChronoBound]

Yes but wasn't the reason that roy was cut was because he wasn't popular and/or there was more popular/recent characters and the reason that mewtwo was cut because the pokemon comany wanted to advertise the recent pokemon or something like that.... correct me if im wrong.

I MIGHT understand meta-knight slightly but I see no reason for Snake.

Roy was very popular worldwide among players of Smash Bros., the only ones who didn't like him were the touney-goers (Roy's game also was the third-highest selling Fire Emblem in Japan, and Roy himself was the most popular character from his game according to an official poll), The same goes for Mewtwo, who also had the added benefit of still being one of the most popular Pokemon during Brawl's development (heck, Mewtwo is more popular than Lucario even in the present). Sakurai was evidently planning for them to return seeing as how they were both planned to have an unique victory theme (which every character on the roster was planned to have with the exception of Wolf, which makes me believe that he may have been the last character to be added).

Snake has no history with Nintendo in the present with the exception of Brawl. Snake's role in Metal Gear is also over.

Roy and Mewtwo were both planned to return, however, Sakurai opted to work on Brawl's extra modes instead of doing extra character (he admits that he had more characters planned but he ran out of time).

 

[flyinfilipino]

A lot of the basic stuff that keeps getting mentioned over and over is covered in this link to another forum (it even has sources!):

http://forum.starmen.net/forum/Stor...ing-a-comprehensive-list-of-unused-characters

 

[Red Arremer]

Sakurai was evidently planning for them to return seeing as how they were both planned to have an unique victory theme (which every character on the roster was planned to have with the exception of Wolf, which makes me believe that he may have been the last character to be added).

Nope, Sonic was the last character to be added. The roster pretty much was set in stone shortly after the E3 announcement in 2005.
Wolf probably was indeed one of the later additions, but the lack of him having an own theme in the soundfile list does not say much.

We don't know when Roy and Mewtwo were scrapped (although I'm pretty positive that Sonic did replace Mewtwo), and just know that Sakurai had the idea of putting in victory themes for every character sometime.
All we know is that the sound data list has been made somewhen in between the scrapping of the other 5 of the "Forbidden 7" and the inclusion of Wolf respectively the exclusion of Roy and Mewtwo. Whether that was in 2006 or 2008 ... we don't know.

 

[ChronoBound]

Nope, Sonic was the last character to be added. The roster pretty much was set in stone shortly after the E3 announcement in 2005.
Wolf probably was indeed one of the later additions, but the lack of him having an own theme in the soundfile list does not say much.

We don't know when Roy and Mewtwo were scrapped (although I'm pretty positive that Sonic did replace Mewtwo), and just know that Sakurai had the idea of putting in victory themes for every character sometime.
All we know is that the sound data list has been made somewhen in between the scrapping of the other 5 of the "Forbidden 7" and the inclusion of Wolf respectively the exclusion of Roy and Mewtwo. Whether that was in 2006 or 2008 ... we don't know.

I think Wolf was either the last character or second-to-last character to be added.

Here is what I wrote in the past:

There are listings within Brawl’s data for unique victory themes for every character that is currently in Brawl (with the exception of Wolf). In the coding, victory themes for Mewtwo and Roy are listed. However, what infers to me that these two had some level of work done on them is that they are between Jigglypuff’s listed victory theme and Toon Link’s victory theme (where in the coding Sonic’s comes after Toon Link’s, and there is nothing for Wolf). The order in which these characters are numbered within the coding is integral. Notice how in the final game, Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf are listed as the last characters (with the only ones coming after them being Snake and Sonic, simply because they are third-party “guest” characters). This means that work on Mewtwo and Roy were began before Toon Link, Sonic, and Wolf were.

 

[justaway12]

@Chronobound: So basically they were popular enough to return they just didn't have enough time but Ike already replaced Roy and Lucario replaced Mewtwo and since Lucario was popular from his own genaration and Ike's game was realeased on the wii so he would be recogniseable who would snake would be replaced with thats slightly popular (not a MGS fan) thats more up to date?

 

[ChronoBound]

@Chronobound: So basically they were popular enough to return they just didn't have enough time but Ike already replaced Roy and Lucario replaced Mewtwo and since Lucario was popular from his own genaration and Ike's game was realeased on the wii so he would be recogniseable who would snake would be replaced with thats slightly popular?

An Advance/Famicom Wars character. You would be a tool to argue that the series has less importance to Nintendo compared to Metal Gear.

 

[Red Arremer]

I repeat again:
We don't know WHEN the idea of every character having an own victory theme was scrapped, thus making Wolf lacking a mention in the file.

I don't want to go into detail with programming stuff, but since I have developed and programmed a game before (not something fancy, just some Four in a Line game in a CMD window...), I can speak out of experience.

That sounddata list most likely has been either a pointer-file (unlikely) or a supporting file for the programmers to look up whether the shortcuts A12 or Z05 are correctly placed ingame (more likely), with shortcuts of the musics - since the programmers knew what music was in the game, it wasn't necessary to put in full titles or games.


Of course, they wouldn't put in an extra line for Wolf's victory jingle somewhere just for us to find it when we are checking game data, right?

The ideas of victory themes for every character were scrapped, of course, and we don't know when exactly (as in time). We only know it was before Wolf was included and before Roy and Mewtwo were scrapped. Of course, since the music list was altered but the pointers ingame have already been made, why should they delete out stuff which weren't used? It's not like Nintendo assumes that people would hack the game to open up the files and read what music they wanted to include.

 

[justaway12]

An Advance/Famicom Wars character. You would be a tool to argue that the series has less importance to Nintendo compared to Metal Gear.

Obviosly Advance Wars characters are more important and I guess that would be a good reason to cut him but Nintendo is unique i'm not going to count Snake out JUST YET i'm going to wait and see for him, I think they could still create a unique moveset for Advance/Famicon wars.

 

[Vect0r]

Mii is a good idea for an assist trophy, but NOT for an actual character.
It's good for party games like Mario & Sonic at Olympics, but not in a fighter like SSB.

Mewtwo should make a comeback.
I also like the idea of a newcomer from SMB2, like Mouser.

Characters I fully approve, sorted by franchise (newcomers in bold):

1: Mario
2: Luigi
3: Bowser
4: Peach
5: DK
6: King K. Rool
7: Yoshi
8: Link
9: Zelda/Shiek
10: Ganondorf (necessary as main villian of the franchise)
11: Samus
12: Ridley (solely to give the Metroid series more than one character)
13: Pit
14: Ice Climbers
15: Kirby
16: King Dedede
17: Fox
18: Captain Falcon
19: Pikachu
20: Pokemon Trainer (perhaps with 3 other starters)
21: Jigglypuff (SSB original)
22: Mewtwo
23: Marth
24: Ness
25: Mr. G&W
26: Isaac
27: Paper Mario

Paper Mario would be very similar to G&W, very light and powerful attacks.


Optional characters:
Bowser Jr.
Mouser
Falco
Ike
Snake
Wario


I agree on the rule of max. two slots for each franchise, except for the flagship franchises:
Mario
Legend of Zelda
Pokemon

 

[Dokutayuu]

You've managed to decrease the roster size?

I don't see Ike or MK leaving though.

 

[justaway12]

You've managed to decrease the roster size?

I don't see Ike or MK leaving though.

I think if there is a new FE game Ike might be replaced by whoever she/he is (hopefully not another micahah game) but I don't think the roster will become smaller.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ Yea, decreasing the rouster or anything else that's not useless is a big no no. Manly, people would drain the game faster than before, like SSB64 was drain pretty quick because that game didn't have too much stuff to do, Melee had more than twice the stuff SSB64 had because of more stages, items, modes, and character, Brawl had almost twice as much stuff as Melee did with a good size Adventrue mode, more satfied rouster, tons of stuff to collect if you want to finish the game, and online. Yea, that's my thought into it. ♪

 

[Scott!]

You would cut Diddy, MK, Wolf, Lucas, Lucario, Toon Link, Sonic, and potentially Wario, Ike, Falco, and Snake? And yet you have Paper Mario in? And you seem like you only have Ganondorf in out of sheer necessity rather than anything else. That's a lot of cuts, and they're not even all clones. Only Toon Link, Falco, and Lucas and Wolf, arguably, are even remotely clone-like. While everyone's entitled to their own opinions, I hope dearly that if there's another Smash, they don't listen to your list. That's a lot of good, worthy characters being cut. The ones cut from Melee all have good reason to be cut. Dr. Mario and Pichu were filler, Roy was an unimportant clone, and Mewtwo has been overshadowed by Lucario in modern years, no matter what fans of the old stuff may declare. But Diddy cut for K. Rool? That's just not right. And then this Mouser character. Every single one of the cut characters is more important than it.

 

[Vorguen]

Why would you cut Diddy Kong out? Diddy Kong is seriously as great as Donkey Kong himself, many people even like him better. I know I do. Meta Knight? Yeah he is broken, but I'm sorry, as a character, he is awesome. Wolf? Wolf is great, and Fox's rival. Why would he be taken out, he is an amazing character.

Okay I can see Lucas being taken out, he isn't in the original cast and is not as cool as Ness, but I wouldn't know what they would want to do with him. Lucario, well, they seem to be flimsy with Pokemon already, and I'm indifferent as to what they will do with him. Toon Link, it seems will just be replaced by another Link copy that is fast i guess. Sonic? Fanboys would die. Wario? Who knows, just like Ike might not come in or they might..

But Falco and Snake? Snake is a huge character, probably the best third party character in the game. And the Star Fox series is huge, why would you take out a great character like Falco... when there are characters like Ice Climbers still in the game who nobody knows.

 

[V3N0lVl]

Mario:
Mario [dr mario]
Luigi [mr. l]
Peach [daisy]
Bowser [skelton bowser]
Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario [gold] [not a clone]
Geno [white]
Paper Mario [paper luigi]

Zelda:
Link [zorra armor]
Zelda/Shiek [toon]
Ganondorf [toon] [with sword]
Skull Kid [tp verion]
Toon Link [melee version]
Wolf Link and Minda [toon]
Vaati [all white]

Pokemon:
Pickachu [raichu]
PT [female]
Jigglypuff [wigglypuff]
Mewtwo [with hood]
Lucario [shiny form]
Evee [shiny form] [uses hes evolutions as attacks]
Meowth [shiny form]

Golden Sun:
Isaac [classic]


F-Zero:
Captain Falcon [blood falcon]
Samuriah Goroh [black] [with sword]
Black Shadow [with cape]

Fire-Emblem:
Marth [roy color scheme]
Ike [lyn color schyme]
Black Knight [unmasked]

Donkey Kong:
Donkey Kong [white fur]
Diddy Kong [white fur]
King K. Rool [one of his henchmen]

Retro:
Game and Watch
Ice Climbers
R.O.B. [ancient minster]
Pit
Little Mac [without shirt]

Earthbound:
Ness [jeff]
Lucas
Masked Man

Metroid:
Samus/ZSS [dark samus]
Ridley [meta ridley]

Starfox: [star fox assualt costumes 4 all]
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal [uses staff]

Wario:
Wario [classic]

Pikmin:
Pikmin and Olimar [louie]

Kirby:
Kirby
Metaknight
King Dedede
Knuckle Joe

Yoshi:
Yoshi [boshi]

Sin and Punishment:
Saki [classic]

3rd Party:
Snake [old version]
Sonic [black knight armor]
Megaman [classic]
Bomberman
Ryu [dark ryu]
Simon Belmont [1st appearence]
Travis
Black or White Mage
Cloud [advent chirldren]

Pokeball: [ all pokemon have 1 out of 50 chance to be shiny]
all of them from brawl
Newcommers
Darkrai
Girtina
Shaymin
Garchomp
Arceus
Gyarados
Wailrd
Abansnow
Spirtbomb
Hunter
Machamp
Noctowl
Regigigas

 

[Vorguen]

Venom, what the heck did you just list. O.O

 

[Starphoenix]

I'm sorry, that is way too many 3rd party characters. We will be lucky if we even get 4; besides, the roster is really breaking a reasonable size. The most logical size we could even attribute to being a max would be 50, a number Sakurai himself mentioned, in a rather negative connotation. The least being 5 more characters than we have now, with some being cut.

I like Brawls character roster, most of the characters I wanted are in. The only ones who were not included were Megaman, either Dark Samus or Ridley, and King K.Rool; but he was kind of iffy for me anyways. Megaman is who I am pulling for, except they NEED to make sure that his normal buster shots (hypothetically speaking) are the same as Fox's laser. Meaning they do about 1-2% damage, overheat to keep from stream spamming and that they have no knockback. To keep him from being king camper.

 

[justaway12]

Now this is just too many characters and so many Mario,Zelda and Pokemon characters they do make the most money but there is a limit, the same goes with thrid parties, why does Ike have a Lyn costume and some of these pokemon don't have a chance to get in.

 

[V3N0lVl]

lol its my ssb4 super wishlist

 

[DUB]

I think if there is a new FE game Ike might be replaced by whoever she/he is (hopefully not another micahah game) but I don't think the roster will become smaller.

i think theres a remake of the first fire emblem game with Marth being made for the DS.

 

[volbound1700]

I would like to see more Sonic characters and another stage but that is just me.

I am more into third parties that should be added then into adding new Nintendo characters because I think outside a few characters (like Ridley) the Nintendo franchises are well-represented.

 

[V3N0lVl]

would u think they would put M charcters like leon [re4] travis [no more heros] in ssb4

 

[Vorguen]

Probably not. They would have a difficult moveset. Besides, why would they start off with Leon, he isn't even the most noteworthy resident evil character.

 

[Mythic02]

I think the roster cap should be 6. It seems like a good number and if we add characters to lesser series there going to get to 4 just like mario. Besides it fits perfectly with the next most likely characters in the big 3. Bowser jr. and toad(maybe waluigi instead). Tingle and Vaati(though i hate tingle). Mewtwo and 5th gen.
It would keep the amount of characters per game balanced. And no this does not include spin-offs like paper mario.(that's right, paper mario is a spinoff. Even yoshi who has been with mario the entire time is a spinoff)

 

[justaway12]

i think theres a remake of the first fire emblem game with Marth being made for the DS.

I know that I was just asking why Ike had a lyn costume they aren't the same and Lyn and ike aren't in that game.... i'm almost postive i'll ask my sister she has the game.

EDIT:She isn't in the game.

 

[Vorguen]

Fire Emblem on the DS would be fun. I hope they do it.