[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[flyinfilipino]

I hope they don't try to multiply BRAWL'S music. That would be like doing another SSE. WAY too much time spent.

The people that compose the music aren't the ones working on the actual game, so you don't have to really worry about that.

 

[mariofanpm12]

Megaman is cool and all but I doubt he'll make it in, sorry MM fans...

Ridley...maybe...

But I doubt Mario chars like Birdo, Toadsworth, and (sort of Waluigi) could get in.

I could see Bowser Jr. (smaller, lighter, faster clone of Bowser, I'd bet) and maybe Paper Mario(the hammer as a signature weapon).

 

[Black Hole CO]

Speaking of mario reps, luigi needs his Poltergust 3000 as a move, i cant believe sakurai missed it when he gave mario fludd.

Bowser Jr, may not be a bad idea, but paper mario must get in, those were **** good games

 

[Lord Viper]

Speaking of mario reps, luigi needs his Poltergust 3000 as a move, i cant believe sakurai missed it when he gave mario fludd.

Bowser Jr, may not be a bad idea, but paper mario must get in, those were **** good games

Luigi only had use of the Poltergust for mostly ghost, Mario used his FLUDD for much more. Mario has a lot of rep's, so Paper Mario wasn't in, and Bowser Jr. is still too new to the Mario seires to count, if he appears in more Mario platformers, then he might be condsidered.

 

[justaway12]

why does everyone think bowser jr will be cloned maybe without the paint brush he could be a clone but with it he atleast has the potential to be luigified.

Personally like to think that paper mario is the real mario (like on the oppisite side of the castle there's a portal or something) but if he were to get in i wouldn't want it to be like toon link where he is better than the original

 

[WolfCypher]

I don't think Bowser, Jr. would be a clone...I actually don't see it...maybe a similar B Up, but I've never seen Bowser, Jr. spew fire, he's too light to Bowser Bomb, and he's both too light and too small to Flying Slam. I don't see how he can be a Bowser clone.

 

[Kraryo]

I don't think Bowser, Jr. would be a clone...I actually don't see it...maybe a similar B Up, but I've never seen Bowser, Jr. spew fire, he's too light to Bowser Bomb, and he's both too light and too small to Flying Slam. I don't see how he can be a Bowser clone.

Well, it wouldn't be as much of a stretch to make Bowser Jr. a clone of Bowser when they made Ganondorf a clone of CF. The Mario series already has loads of inspired and original characters (the only uninspired one is Luigi, but he's supposed to be like Mario anyways and had the decency to have 2 different specials), so Sakurai could get away much eaisier with making Bowser Jr. a (semi-)clone of Bowser than if he decided to make Krystal another space animal

Spoiler

which would spell Sakurai's death, because I would become Wario Man and do a fully charged fart on him. Then I would Shoulder Charge him and become Super with the seven Chaos Emeralds to finish him off. After that, I would fart on him one last time.

 

[majora_787]

Well, it wouldn't be as much of a stretch to make Bowser Jr. a clone of Bowser when they made Ganondorf a clone of CF. The Mario series already has loads of inspired and original characters (the only uninspired one is Luigi, but he's supposed to be like Mario anyways and had the decency to have 2 different specials), so Sakurai could get away much eaisier with making Bowser Jr. a (semi-)clone of Bowser than if he decided to make Krystal another space animal

Spoiler

which would spell Sakurai's death, because I would become Wario Man and do a fully charged fart on him. Then I would Shoulder Charge him and become Super with the seven Chaos Emeralds to finish him off. After that, I would fart on him one last time.

Oh wow, people only care about KRYSTAL being cloned. If B. Jr. and krystal get in the game, they BOTH have...I dunno, at best maybe a 50/50 chance of being clones, even luigified, or using the weapon they used in their very first game.

Ganondorf and Captain Falcon isn't the same thing, they were given very similar frames almost like Mario and Luigi. Except, mario and Luigi have like the EXACT same.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't think Bowser, Jr. would be a clone...I actually don't see it...maybe a similar B Up, but I've never seen Bowser, Jr. spew fire, he's too light to Bowser Bomb, and he's both too light and too small to Flying Slam. I don't see how he can be a Bowser clone.

I don't see that happening either. Bowser Jr. may be Bowser's son, but he lacks the strength and weight that his dad has. Additionally, he has used his paintbrush on some spin-off titles.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I don't see that happening either. Bowser Jr. may be Bowser's son, but he lacks the strength and weight that his dad has. Additionally, he has used his paintbrush on some spin-off titles.

Well, not all of Bowser's moves involve throwing his weight around. Jr.'s normal attacks could be faster, weaker versions of Bowser's claw and shell attacks, perhaps with a few variations. Yeah, the paintbrush could be thrown in for a few moves. I think WolfCypher's right, Jr. can't breathe fire...his B move could involve paint somehow (maybe he spreads it on the ground to make people trip?).

Overall, I think people might enjoy playing as a smaller, faster version of Bowser (like how some people prefer Toon/Young Link over Link).

 

[trev94]

I dont think Boswer Jr will be a clone because he doesnt have to. The pantbrush is the thing that makes him stand out.

 

[DekuBoy]

Actually, your roster is pretty decent, but this section is kind of off. It includes characters that have already been disconfirmed (Balloon Fighter, Sukapon, Tom Nook, arguably Little Mac) and a few that are incredibly odd choices (Diskun? He has even less moveset potential than Falcon, Fox, or ROB.)

But overall you do something right that a lot of people don't - you don't clog up the roster by adding lots of characters from the series more established and you don't make unnecessary cuts.



Well, maybe not all (do we need both Young Link and Toon Link?) but yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of them back in the future.

Of course I'm assuming that Sakurai isn't making this game so that his stupid logic doesn't ruin it. And my idea for Diskun is that he fights using old Nintendo toys Gunpei Yokoi made.

 

[majora_787]

I dont think Boswer Jr will be a clone because he doesnt have to. The pantbrush is the thing that makes him stand out.

<_< NOBODY has to be a clone, but look what we have. 64 had a clone, Melee had FIVE clones, six on a technicality, and Brawl has...lemme see...1, 2, 3... Something like that.

Nobody has to be a clone, but that doesn't stop it from happening. Krystal and Bowser Jr. are not special enough to avoid even a luigification or landmasterfication 100%.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Of course I'm assuming that Sakurai isn't making this game so that his stupid logic doesn't ruin it. And my idea for Diskun is that he fights using old Nintendo toys Gunpei Yokoi made.

Why is it stupid logic?

The idea of using old Nintendo toys might be pretty interesting (after looking them up), but I'm not sure Diskun is the way to go with it. Plus, if you do that, you have three super-old-school characters, which is kind of killing Game & Watch and ROB's novelty.

 

[majora_787]

Why is it stupid logic?

The idea of using old Nintendo toys might be pretty interesting (after looking them up), but I'm not sure Diskun is the way to go with it. Plus, if you do that, you have three super-old-school characters, which is kind of killing Game & Watch and ROB's novelty.

Diskun would remove the originality in two dimensions and being involved directly with a system. He would RUIN them both as far as originality goes.

 

[johe]

Honestly, the clones aren't a big deal, they play differently enough that they are just fine as far as character diversity, also, I want to stress this, Wolf is very much not a clone, all they copied was the specials and the back air.

Also, this thread needs more Travis Touchdown.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Diskun would remove the originality in two dimensions and being involved directly with a system. He would RUIN them both as far as originality goes.

I'm not sure I understand how he'd be ruining their originality when they already did those things first. If anything, that would make him look like a knockoff.

 

[Lord Viper]

Also, this thread needs more Travis Touchdown.

lol, No More Hero's is a pretty good game isn't it. XD

 

[Mr.T 07]

what they really need to do is put more characters in from games that are already in brawl!
EX: nuckles and cream from sonic
EX 2: birdo from yoshi
and stuff like that.

 

[johe]

lol, No More Hero's is a pretty good game isn't it. XD

It's very good, but I personally think the character is someone who fits in brawl really well except for the maturity level of the average brawl player, but then again, I would have said the same thing about Snake

what they really need to do is put more characters in from games that are already in brawl!
EX: nuckles and cream from sonic
EX 2: birdo from Super Mario
and stuff like that.

Fixed

also no more sonic characters, sonic is the least annoying of them and he still *insert colloquilism for makes me frusterated*

I hate Sonic characters and any 3D sonic games, and many of the 2D ones.

 

[Kraryo]

<_< NOBODY has to be a clone, but look what we have. 64 had a clone, Melee had FIVE clones, six on a technicality, and Brawl has...lemme see...1, 2, 3... Something like that.

Nobody has to be a clone, but that doesn't stop it from happening. Krystal and Bowser Jr. are not special enough to avoid even a luigification or landmasterfication 100%.

The difference between Krystal and Bowser Jr. is that Fox has two semi-clones while Bowser has no (semi-) clones at all. If Sakurai put little to no effort on making Krystal unique, then Fox would have three semi-clones when two was already ridiculous.

It wouldn't be quite so bad to make Jr. a semi-clone, because there was never a clone of Bowser. It would be interesting to have a character that's like Bowser, but has a different playstyle. Speaking of which, Toon Zelda/Tetra should of gotten completed instead of resurrecting Falco or completing Wolf, because Zelda/Shiek never had any clones of their own.

 

[C.Olimar788]

what they really need to do is put more characters in from games that are already in brawl!
EX: nuckles and cream from sonic
EX 2: birdo from yoshi
and stuff like that.

What we need is a mix. A good amount of new franchises as well as new characters from existing franchises. We need new franchises especially, though, since we got, what, like, ONE new franchise with character representation that came out in the 2000s? Although, admittedly, that's mostly Nintendo's fault...

...although I don't think any of the characters you mentioned should be playable in SSB4...

 

[Jimnymebob]

I hate Sonic characters and any 3D sonic games, and many of the 2D ones.

You're not talking about Sonic 2 here right?

Right?

Riiight???

 

[johe]

You're not talking about Sonic 2 here right?

Right?

Riiight???

Hell no

Never
ever

they lost my respect when knuckles got involved

And remember, there are no true clones, only semi clones.

 

[Kraryo]

they lost my respect when knuckles got involved

And remember, there are no true clones, only semi clones.

What's wrong with Knuckles in his first apperance? It's redundunt to have two or more semi-clones of the same character. Everytime somebody leaves out "semi" in clone (even if they mentioned semi-clone somewhere in the same post), it always seems that somebody else acts like that first person never heard of semi-clones.

 

[johe]

What's wrong with Knuckles in his first apperance? It's redundunt to have two or more semi-clones of the same character. Everytime somebody leaves out "semi" in clone (even if they mentioned semi-clone somewhere in the same post), it always seems that somebody else acts like that first person never heard of semi-clones.

It just, wasn't fun. Don't press me on this, I was young at the time so I didn't know what goes into a game to make it fun, but it just wasn't fun, and no sonic game has been since then.

EDIT: yes I know this sounds like a total cop-out, but god d*mn it, I refuse to question my childhood memories *goes to try desperately to like Megaman X6*

I apologzize over the clone issue, I haven't read over this thread completely, so I didn't know (really trying to make this not sound sarcastic)

On the issue of multiple semi clones, I would like to ask you a question, do Fox, Falco, and Wolf play the same at higher levels of play, if they don't, then in my mind, they are just fine.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

then Fox would have three semi-clones when two was already ridiculous.

I was just thinking, and I realized something - why is this so ridiculous? Super Street Fighter II Turbo, one of the most beloved fighting games of all time, has 17 characters - two of which are essentially Ryu semi-clones. The same thing happens in pretty much every Street Fighter game, sometimes even worse if you extend the definition of "semi-clone", but no one really complains. Why is it that in Smash, people get so much more agitated by clones?

And remember, there are no true clones, only semi clones.

Toon Link and Ganondorf may not be true clones, but they aren't unique enough to be semi-clones.

 

[johe]

Toon Link and Ganondorf may not be true clones, but they aren't unique enough to be semi-clones.

Do you honestly play Toon link and Ganondorf the same as you play Link and Crap. Falc?

Toon link can actually link moves together, has a hard time killing, and better recovery.

Ganondorf has the murder choke, IASA frames, and a hole **** ton of lag, he plays completely different from Crap. Falc

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

They do play completely differently. So do the Melee clones - but playstyle isn't what makes a clone, it's moves, and the Zelda clones have copied moves for the majority of their moveset.

 

[johe]

They do play completely differently. So do the Melee clones - but playstyle isn't what makes a clone, it's moves, and the Zelda clones have copied moves for the majority of their moveset.

I see, then can I think I can see what the problem is.

You are thinking of clones in an aesthetic sense, I am thinking of them in the sense of gameplay. To me, It doesn't matter if they look the same, it's whether they play the same.

 

[chaos11011]

i wish there was ToonZelda/Tetra it would be awsome (but it cant be a clone)

and TL isnt a clone Bfoward,nair,fair,bair,Usmash,bUp,is diffrent plus TL is a ariel fighter while link is a ground and TL is 12 so he cant be a clone cause link is older

EDIT: they both play diffrent and i wish TL will still be in brawl

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I see, then can I think I can see what the problem is.

You are thinking of clones in an aesthetic sense, I am thinking of them in the sense of gameplay. To me, It doesn't matter if they look the same, it's whether they play the same.

I agree to an extent - as long as they bring a new way to play to the table, there's not much wrong. It's just that clones are normally defined by whether they look the same.

and TL isnt a clone Bfoward,nair,fair,bair,Usmash,bUp,is diffrent plus TL is a ariel fighter while link is a ground and TL is 12 so he cant be a clone cause link is older

The only moves that Toon Link actually has to himself are his nair and bair. His usmash and fair are slightly different (they have only one hit instead of three) but I don't know if they're different enough to be unique.

Toon Link is definitely as close to a model swap-type clone as you can get in Brawl.

For the record, Ganondorf isn't much better (he only has his neutral-A, fair, and FS (if that counts). You could maybe argue for his side special, utilt, and usmash.).

 

[chaos11011]

I agree to an extent - as long as they bring a new way to play to the table, there's not much wrong. It's just that clones are normally defined by whether they look the same.



The only moves that Toon Link actually has to himself are his nair and bair. His usmash and fair are slightly different (they have only one hit instead of three) but I don't know if they're different enough to be unique.

Toon Link is definitely as close to a model swap-type clone as you can get in Brawl.

For the record, Ganondorf isn't much better (he only has his neutral-A, fair, and FS (if that counts). You could maybe argue for his side special, utilt, and usmash.).

meh,but i still want TL and TZ/Tetra in ssb4

 

[majora_787]

I'm not sure I understand how he'd be ruining their originality when they already did those things first. If anything, that would make him look like a knockoff.

Him being there would make him begin as unoriginal, but it would take away from R.O.B. and G+W. Playing as Diskun would be conisdered "playing as both at once", especially by those people who say Krystal = Zamus clone and Ridley = Bowser clone.

Point 2: I never said Wolf. I was looking at...Falco, Luigi, T. Link, Ganondorf...
okay, four. Not three.

 

[C.Olimar788]

i wish there was ToonZelda/Tetra it would be awsome (but it cant be a clone)

and TL isnt a clone Bfoward,nair,fair,bair,Usmash,bUp,is diffrent plus TL is a ariel fighter while link is a ground and TL is 12 so he cant be a clone cause link is older

EDIT: they both play diffrent and i wish TL will still be in brawl

The problem I have with Toon Zelda/Tetra is that there's not mucc of a chance for at least Toon Zelda to be a clone. NORMAL Zelda/Sheik have pretty much all made up movesets (Zelda's derived from moves only Link used), and there's not a lot Zelda and Tetra really ever DO to derive a moveset from.

Toon Link is okay by my book because there's a lot of items that only he has used or haven't been used in the 3D Zeldas.

 

[chaos11011]

Him being there would make him begin as unoriginal, but it would take away from R.O.B. and G+W. Playing as Diskun would be conisdered "playing as both at once", especially by those people who say Krystal = Zamus clone and Ridley = Bowser clone.

Point 2: I never said Wolf. I was looking at...Falco, Luigi, T. Link, Ganondorf...
okay, four. Not three.

no not TL but im all up for falco

 

[majora_787]

no not TL but im all up for falco

How is Toon Link NOT a clone? 0_0 He's the only FULL CLONE anymore. Everyone else would be considered luigified.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Him being there would make him begin as unoriginal, but it would take away from R.O.B. and G+W. Playing as Diskun would be conisdered "playing as both at once", especially by those people who say Krystal = Zamus clone and Ridley = Bowser clone.

Sorry, I know I said this exact phrase several times, but now I really, really don't understand what you're saying. Game & Watch and ROB are original characters, so you want to combine the things that make them original in order to make a character who, for some reason, will be considered original because he ripped off of other characters. And because this character exists, the characters he took his defining attributes from won't be held in as high regard? The only thing I really get out of this is that it's almost like you're arguing G&W and ROB should be removed.

I've never heard anyone say Krystal would be a ZSS clone, though, and I've almost never heard people say Ridley would be a Bowser clone, but I don't see how that has to do with people thinking your idea to make Diskun a combination of G&W and ROB (because what those hypothetical people are saying is probably wrong, while what you're saying they would say about Diskun isn't).

How is Toon Link NOT a clone? 0_0 He's the only FULL CLONE anymore. Everyone else would be considered luigified.

But Ganondorf only has one or two more unique moves than Toon Link.

 

[majora_787]

Sorry, I know I said this exact phrase several times, but now I really, really don't understand what you're saying. Game & Watch and ROB are original characters, so you want to combine the things that make them original in order to make a character who, for some reason, will be considered original because he ripped off of other characters. And because this character exists, the characters he took his defining attributes from won't be held in as high regard? The only thing I really get out of this is that it's almost like you're arguing G&W and ROB should be removed.

I've never heard anyone say Krystal would be a ZSS clone, though, and I've almost never heard people say Ridley would be a Bowser clone, but I don't see how that has to do with people thinking your idea to make Diskun a combination of G&W and ROB (because what those hypothetical people are saying is probably wrong, while what you're saying they would say about Diskun isn't).



But Ganondorf only has one or two more unique moves than Toon Link.

1. The relationship between the three is me calling my friends idiots. They believe Krystal and Isaac would be Zamus and Marth clones. The Bowser = Ridley thing happened on the R.I.D.L.E.Y. Boards.

I am NOT saying they should be removed, I am saying DISKUN is a horrible idea. The idiots from point one would actually drop both ROB and G+W just to play as Diskun, which they would consider "Liek playing as both at once."

Ganondorf was on my clone-list.

Sorry if I don't make my points entirely clear, I have a habit of thinking things over while I type them out. It makes things sound weird sometimes.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I kind of thought you were insulting those people, but I wasn't very sure.

What you're saying makes much more sense now that I paid attention and noticed you weren't the person who recommended Diskun, but now that I know that you were speaking against him I understand what you were saying.