[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[S8on95]

If anyone hasn't said this before, I'd like event 50 in melee, but with 3 hands so then the diffiiculty is increased by alot. (co-op available?)

 

[DyranMahBoooiii]

I'd like to see a character original to Super Smash Brothers. They've already tossed in tons but not made them playable. I'd love to be able to play a Red Alloy with a unique moveset and without hacks.

 

[Spire]

It has not been officially stated that the Skull Kid from TP is the Skull Kid from OoT, but I will gladly provide the correct information as to why it's about 99% possible for him to be the same.

I) At the end of MM, Skull Kid is shown to return to Hyrule.

II) MM takes place in the same timeline as TP (officially stated by Aonuma).

III) TP Skull Kid's face very much resembles The Moon from MM, and also bears the eyes of Majora's Mask itself (of which he strangely shares with the Twili, HMMMM....).

IV) The Skull Kid encountered in TP is the only Skull Kid encountered in the game, and being in the same timeline as MM, it is heavily implied that it is the same Skull Kid.

V) The incredible parallel connection between Majora's Mask and the Fused Shadow, along with Skull Kid's solitary inclusion in both MM and TP relates he to both masks, albeit being directly involved with only the former.

Convincing enough?

 

[ChronoBound]

It has not been officially stated that the Skull Kid from TP is the Skull Kid from OoT, but I will gladly provide the correct information as to why it's about 99% possible for him to be the same.

I) At the end of MM, Skull Kid is shown to return to Hyrule.

II) MM takes place in the same timeline as TP (officially stated by Aonuma).

III) TP Skull Kid's face very much resembles The Moon from MM, and also bears the eyes of Majora's Mask itself (of which he strangely shares with the Twili, HMMMM....).

IV) The Skull Kid encountered in TP is the only Skull Kid encountered in the game, and being in the same timeline as MM, it is heavily implied that it is the same Skull Kid.

V) The incredible parallel connection between Majora's Mask and the Fused Shadow, along with Skull Kid's solitary inclusion in both MM and TP relates he to both masks, albeit being directly involved with only the former.

Convincing enough?

No. No its not. You just proved it to be little more than a theory.

 

[Big-Cat]

If anything, Skull Kid is like Link and Zelda. They are all their own person, but they live out numerous different lives.

 

[Spire]

If anything, Skull Kid is like Link and Zelda. They are all their own person, but they live out numerous different lives.

Then the same would go for Tingle.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Zelda characters are so complicated

 

[ChronoBound]

Zelda characters are so complicated

Not really. Also, arguing the timeline is a waste of time. I don't think even the creators of the series have even thought the entire thing through. All I know is Minish Cap is the first game in the series chronologically, and that the Zelda universe has two timelines as a result of Ocarina of Time.

 

[Dark Ryu]

Skull Kid should just be a assist trophy.

Now back to the topic, I think that for ssb4 they should include all the stages from the previous games instead of just the latest one.

 

[Lord Viper]

Now back to the topic, I think that for ssb4 they should include all the stages from the previous games instead of just the latest one.

They better be refrbished, I don't want to play on a stage that looks all polygonic with characters that might look real on the next one. XD

 

[ChronoBound]

Skull Kid should just be a assist trophy.

Now back to the topic, I think that for ssb4 they should include all the stages from the previous games instead of just the latest one.

I think Skull Kid would make a great Assist Trophy, however, personally I think there are no Zelda characters in the present that are worthy enough to become playable, and the best option to take would be declone Ganondorf (and maybe even Toon Link). Although if Tingle continues to get new games, or if Vaati becomes the antagonist in another installment, or if a new important character arises, then I might change my mind.

Personally, Majora's Mask is my second favorite Zelda, and I would love to see the game receieve more representation in the next Smash Bros. (perhaps in the form of an Assist Trophy of Majora's Mask with Skull Kid or Fierce Diety Link, and the return of the Great Bay stage). I was thoroughly disappointed that Wind Waker and Twilight Princess were the only two Zeldas to receive a sizable amount of representation in terms of stages and trophies.

Still, I would also like to apologize if I was rude when I was pointing out my analysis regarding the importance of Tingle and Skull Kid within the Zelda series, and please understand that I sometimes get aggressive when I debate.

As I said earlier, I think the well for important or worthy Nintendo characters for Smash Bros. is drying up (Brawl practically added most of Nintendo's major characters from their non-Big 3 franchises), and I think that we may see a smaller increase in terms of newcomers compared to Brawl and maybe even Melee.

 

[justaway12]

Skull Kid should just be a assist trophy.

Now back to the topic, I think that for ssb4 they should include all the stages from the previous games instead of just the latest one.

i don't think they should concentrate on the stages right away but i think i said that just because i'd only be satisfied with final destination, smashville and fountain of dream idk
but i can't belive they didn't add the stage you fought tabuu on it, it didn't have a lip and to small to camp and it looked really cool

 

[Spire]

Not really. Also, arguing the timeline is a waste of time. I don't think even the creators of the series have even thought the entire thing through. All I know is Minish Cap is the first game in the series chronologically, and that the Zelda universe has two timelines as a result of Ocarina of Time.

The timeline is inherently pointless, and I try to avoid it at most costs, but Aonuma and Miyamoto are working it out just as much as the fans are, so while it is not concrete, it does exist. All in all, every "Legend of Zelda" is simply a legend, and just as tales and myths in our own world change with time, so do those of Zelda. It's the same story told over and over in different iterations.

I think Skull Kid would make a great Assist Trophy, however, personally I think there are no Zelda characters in the present that are worthy enough to become playable, and the best option to take would be declone Ganondorf (and maybe even Toon Link). Although if Tingle continues to get new games, or if Vaati becomes the antagonist in another installment, or if a new important character arises, then I might change my mind.

Personally, Majora's Mask is my second favorite Zelda, and I would love to see the game receieve more representation in the next Smash Bros. (perhaps in the form of an Assist Trophy of Majora's Mask with Skull Kid or Fierce Diety Link, and the return of the Great Bay stage). I was thoroughly disappointed that Wind Waker and Twilight Princess were the only two Zeldas to receive a sizable amount of representation in terms of stages and trophies.

Still, I would also like to apologize if I was rude when I was pointing out my analysis regarding the importance of Tingle and Skull Kid within the Zelda series, and please understand that I sometimes get aggressive when I debate.

As I said earlier, I think the well for important or worthy Nintendo characters for Smash Bros. is drying up (Brawl practically added most of Nintendo's major characters from their non-Big 3 franchises), and I think that we may see a smaller increase in terms of newcomers compared to Brawl and maybe even Melee.

I think we all get a bit rambunctious when it comes to heated video game debates. Just as video games get us wriled up while playing them, so do conversations about the games.

I too was very disappointed that only TP and WW were represented in Smash Bros, with Sheik being the only rep for another game (OoT). I would have loved to see updated trophies of characters from ALttP, LA, OoT, MM, OoA/S, and FS/A (PH was too late in progress at the time, as was Super Mario Galaxy).

Again, my argument was merely against Tingle, and judging by how much garbage came out of the past several pages, probably because I simply just don't like the guy. I've always been a fan of Skull Kid, so perhaps my argument was a bit biased, but nevertheless, if a poll opened, you know where my vote would go

I too see the amount of characters dwindling for Smash Bros. It's come to the point that just about no one would be a surprised anymore. That was the beauty of Melee - just about everyone was a surprise, and the game felt immensely new. Brawl, not so much. Pokemon Trainer, yes; Sonic, yes; Snake, yes; Olimar, yes; R.O.B., yes; but the others are moot. If they could somehow pull off another "Melee" with SSB4, my love for the series would turn a few leaves. The typical, "K. Rool, Krystal, Isaac, Mega Man, Geno, Ridley, Bowser Jr., Black Shadow, etc, etc" list should be completely ignored. I think the best possible candidates would be those that no one would expect, but everyone would love.Look at those I listed for Brawl. Pokemon Trainer may be one of the most beloved characters simply because of what the character is and represents. He represents everyone's first experience with the Gen 1 games (and to some extent, FireRed and LeafGreen).

Honestly, I feel that the Assist Trophies represent the characters from [almost] every represented series (and others of course) that the developers would have included as playable if certain circumstances were met. Just look at the cast.

Super Mario - Waluigi
Wario - Kat & Ana
Legend of Zelda - Tingle (yeah, the Japanese would pick him over Skully anyday)
F-Zero - Samurai Goroh
Kirby - Knuckle Joe
Fire Emblem - Lyn
Earthbound - Jeff
Retro - Little Mac
Sonic the Hedgehog - Shadow
Metal Gear - Gray Fox
---------------------
Golden Sun - Isaac
Sin & Punishment - Saki
Drill Dozer - Jill
Custom Robo - Ray Mk. III
Densetsu no Stafy - Stafy
Devil World - Devil
Master of Illusion - Barbara

And then of course, the filler...

Nintendogs - Nintendog
Excitebike - Excitebikes
Metroid - Metroid
Star Fox - Andross
Advance Wars - Infantry & Tanks
Kuru Kuru Kururin - Helirin

Without the filler characters, that's 17 more characters, a lot of which are BIG surprises. I'd happily take them all as playables, if not for their debuts as AT's. Now they'll no longer be surprises. So what in the world will the devs do for SSB4? Odds are, Waluigi, Goroh, Knuckle Joe, Little Mac, Shadow, Isaac, Saki, Ray, and perhaps Stafy may find roster spots. I can't stand Barbara, but Devil would be loads of fun.

I'd suggest that the devs use unsuspecting characters that we still know and love such as Slippy (with a large wrench for a weapon), Bonkers, Agent J, etc, etc; characters that naturally differ so much from the majority of the already established roster.

EDIT: And of course, some great 3rd Party characters such as Simon Belmont (if Snake gets in, so does Simon), Chrono (the only realistic rep for Square), and Klonoa (yeah yeah, Bomberman and Mega Man, but they've been spoken of far too much).

 

[flyinfilipino]

^^^ has some nice thoughts. I agree that there are still plenty of characters out there that we all know and love but think have no chance of becoming playable in Smash Bros. I say, Screw the "Rules"! Smash Bros. is every character's chance at having their own 15 minutes of fame. I would feel so warm and fuzzy inside if Slippy made it in somehow, with his own fighting style. Sakurai/whoever could pull it off if they wanted to. One of Kirby's helpers from Super Star would also make me happy. Heck, a generic Space Pirate would just make me gush all over.

Now, those may sound unrealistic, but it's freaking Smash Bros. They could go ahead and throw in all the "predictable" characters that everyone mentions just to go with the crowd, but I know that Sakurai and his team still have ideas that can tickle the inner Nintendo fanboy in me, and they can throw those in there was well and give the next game its own charm.

*daydreams about a stage based on Yoshi's House in Super Mario World*

 

[ChronoBound]

The one thing I liked about Melee's roster was the unexpectedness of it. While I disagree with the majority of your choices, Spire, here is a list of characters that I would like to see as "pleasant surprises" in Smash 4 (though nearly all of them have no chance of becoming playable characters)

Mario:
Toad

Donkey Kong:
Dixie Kong

The Legend of Zelda:
Mask Link

F-Zero:
Pico

Fire Emblem:
Eliwood

Retro:
Mike Jones

Third-Party:
Crono

 

[Spire]

^^^ has some nice thoughts. I agree that there are still plenty of characters out there that we all know and love but think have no chance of becoming playable in Smash Bros. I say, Screw the "Rules"! Smash Bros. is every character's chance at having their own 15 minutes of fame. I would feel so warm and fuzzy inside if Slippy made it in somehow, with his own fighting style. Sakurai/whoever could pull it off if they wanted to. One of Kirby's helpers from Super Star would also make me happy. Heck, a generic Space Pirate would just make me gush all over.

Now, those may sound unrealistic, but it's freaking Smash Bros. They could go ahead and throw in all the "predictable" characters that everyone mentions just to go with the crowd, but I know that Sakurai and his team still have ideas that can tickle the inner Nintendo fanboy in me, and they can throw those in there was well and give the next game its own charm.

*daydreams about a stage based on Yoshi's House in Super Mario World*

I wholeheartedly agree. Also, the story mode needs to include many side-characters from each series, whether they be supporting roles, or common enemies/species. These characters can eventually be unlocked as clones (meaning no ACTUAL character is a clone of another) and can then be grouped under a "drop-down list" (similar to what Soul Calibur has done in its past two titles with its bonus characters). For instance, say each series has five bonus clone characters. Zelda may have:

- Goron (Heavy clone of Sonic)
- Zora (Captain Falcon or Sheik)
- Deku Scrub (Ivysaur)
- Stalfos (Link, Marth, or Ike)
- Darknut (Ganondorf with sword)

You guys can play with ideas for other series.

 

[WolfCypher]

Retro:
Mike Jones

??????????

 

[Spire]

The one thing I liked about Melee's roster was the unexpectedness of it. While I disagree with the majority of your choices, Spire, here is a list of characters that I would like to see as "pleasant surprises" in Smash 4 (though nearly all of them have no chance of becoming playable characters)

Mario:
Toad

Donkey Kong:
Dixie Kong

The Legend of Zelda:
Mask Link

F-Zero:
Pico

Fire Emblem:
Eliwood

Retro:
Mike Jones

Third-Party:
Crono

I'd love to see Toad, Dixie, Mask Link, Pico, and Crono, but I've no idea who the others are, as I've never played an FE game, nor can I recall who Mike Jones is (certainly have seen a pic before).

EDIT: Looked up Mike Jones. Well, aside from him already being a bit similar to Ness (young man with a baseball bat), his name wouldn't work out well at all because of the titularly-synonymous rapper.

 

[ChronoBound]

??????????

He is the main protagonist StarTropics 1 & 2 for the NES, both of which are excellent games, though they are quite forgotten.

 

[flyinfilipino]

here is a list of characters that I would like to see as "pleasant surprises" in Smash 4 (though nearly all of them have no chance of becoming playable characters)

Don't completely write some of them off just yet...narrowing the possibilites of the franchise is no fun.

 

[WolfCypher]

I have a question while Dixie Kong has been brought up:

Would you guys like to see Dixie as a standalone character, or as a Diddy + Dixie combo (Ice Climbers style, except you an actually switch between the two like Pokémon Trainer, and they have different moves)?

 

[flyinfilipino]

I have a question while Dixie Kong has been brought up:

Would you guys like to see Dixie as a standalone character, or as a Diddy + Dixie combo (Ice Climbers style, except you an actually switch between the two like Pokémon Trainer, and they have different moves)?

I feel like a tag-team might take away from the Ice Climbers' gimmick. I'd prefer to see Dixie as a standalone character (she had her own adventure anyway).

 

[ChronoBound]

I have a question while Dixie Kong has been brought up:

Would you guys like to see Dixie as a standalone character, or as a Diddy + Dixie combo (Ice Climbers style, except you an actually switch between the two like Pokémon Trainer, and they have different moves)?

I wish they could tag-team together that way Dixie can be in and K. Rool could get in, and they the Donkey Kong series would have three slots.

 

[WolfCypher]

I feel like a tag-team might take away from the Ice Climbers' gimmick. I'd prefer to see Dixie as a standalone character (she had her own adventure anyway).

I can see what you mean. When I learned that Plusle and Minun were supposed to be in Brawl as an Ice Climber-type duo, the first thing I said was "that would have taken away from the Ice Climbers' unique appeal. We don't need more tag-teams that take away from the IC".

But the reason why I look at Diddy & Dixie as an exception is because as a tag-team, it would be a reference to how the Kongs worked as a "follow me" tag-team duo in the Donkey Kong Country games.

I wish they could tag-team together that way Dixie can be in and K. Rool could get in, and they the Donkey Kong series would have three slots.

As Zelda/Sheik, Samus/Zero Suit Samus, and Pokémon Trainer have proven, you can always "cheat" the roster "limit" by having two-in-one characters.

 

[flyinfilipino]

But the reason why I look at Diddy & Dixie as an exception is because as a tag-team, it would be a reference to how the Kongs worked as a "follow me" tag-team duo in the Donkey Kong Country games.

As long as they're both fun to play as, there's no drawback to playing as one or the other for too long, the switching isn't awkward, and Diddy doesn't lose his bananas: I wouldn't mind. That's possible, right?!

 

[ChronoBound]

As long as they're both fun to play as, there's no drawback to playing as one or the other for too long, the switching isn't awkward, and Diddy doesn't lose his bananas: I wouldn't mind. That's possible, right?!

Diddy might lose one of his specials, however, I think that would be a small price to pay for both Dixie and K. Rool getting in Smash 4. Personally, I think Dixie is the only Nintendo female left that is worthy enough to become playable.

 

[Spire]

Diddy might lose one of his specials, however, I think that would be a small price to pay for both Dixie and K. Rool getting in Smash 4. Personally, I think Dixie is the only Nintendo female left that is worthy enough to become playable.

Don't forget Slippy! Oh wait..

 

[justaway12]

Diddy might lose one of his specials, however, I think that would be a small price to pay for both Dixie and K. Rool getting in Smash 4. Personally, I think Dixie is the only Nintendo female left that is worthy enough to become playable.

one of his specials his BEST move beside i also think she is one of the worthy female playable characters so i think she also deserves to be her own character or least replace his bananas to a different speacial move

 

[flyinfilipino]

Diddy might lose one of his specials, however, I think that would be a small price to pay for both Dixie and K. Rool getting in Smash 4. Personally, I think Dixie is the only Nintendo female left that is worthy enough to become playable.

I wish it didn't have to be so. It'd be awkward to move the bananas to Side-B (not to mention the fact that I'm...rather fond of his face-hump attack).

I'm a fan of Dixie Kong too (even though I never played DK3). Monkeys are just too awesome! I have some fun ideas for special attacks she might use. I'm glad we're not in a huge debate over Dixie vs. K. Rool right now.

Krystal.

 

[WolfCypher]

As long as they're both fun to play as, there's no drawback to playing as one or the other for too long, the switching isn't awkward, and Diddy doesn't lose his bananas: I wouldn't mind. That's possible, right?!

Diddy might lose one of his specials, however, I think that would be a small price to pay for both Dixie and K. Rool getting in Smash 4. Personally, I think Dixie is the only Nintendo female left that is worthy enough to become playable.

In my mind, Diddy's new B move is the Banana Peel, and he loses the Peanut Popgun, so his moveset is:

B (Banana Peel)
B Foward (Monkey Flip)
B Up (Rocketbarrel Boost)
B Down (Tag-Out)

...OR...OR...both Kongs have 4 "real" specials a piece with the switching move being a new command...maybe you just switch Kongs by using Down Taunt.

And ChronoBound...careful about your statement on female characters...you'll cause a riot with the Krystal fans.

 

[flyinfilipino]

In my mind, Diddy's new B move is the Banana Peel, and he loses the Peanut Popgun, so his moveset is:

B (Banana Peel)
B Foward (Monkey Flip)
B Up (Rocketbarrel Boost)
B Down (Tag-Out)

...OR...OR...both Kongs have 4 "real" specials a piece with the switching move being a new command...maybe you just switch Kongs by using Down Taunt.

And ChronoBound...careful about your statement on female characters...you'll cause a riot with the Krystal fans.

That could work (either one). The pop-guns can stay in the Final Smash.

Dixie:
B (Gum!)
B Forward (throw a Barrel)
B Up (Hair Spin)
B Down (Tag-Out)

And it's all good in here, right fellas?

 

[justaway12]

what about her final smash? will it be a copy of diddy kongs

 

[WolfCypher]

Can you describe that Gum attack?

Brain Fart!!!

Imagine, if you will, Dixie's A moves and Smash Attacks being different from Diddy's, so when you attack with Diddy and Dixie repeats your command, her attack is not the same as Diddy's...

...de-syncing the Kongs would be so cool!

 

[flyinfilipino]

what about her final smash? will it be a copy of diddy kongs

Umm...I'll get back to you on that.

Can you describe that Gum attack?

Brain Fart!!!

Imagine, if you will, Dixie's A moves and Smash Attacks being different from Diddy's, so when you attack with Diddy and Dixie repeats your command, her attack is not the same as Diddy's...

...de-syncing the Kongs would be so cool!

The gum is just based on her idle pose. By charging the B Button, she'd start blowing a bubble, and by releasing, she'd spit it out in front of her a short distance, covering a foe in gum and momentarily trapping them.

Oh, both Diddy and Dixie would fight at the same time? (it's been so long since I've played DKC2...brain fart!)

 

[ChronoBound]

However, didn't Sakurai say he tried to do the Diddy & Dixie combo character but he couldn't due to problems with the AI? Do you think its impossible to do, or do you think Sakurai's team was just simply too lazy or under time constraints?

 

[WolfCypher]

what about her final smash? will it be a copy of diddy kongs

Oh, both Diddy and Dixie would fight at the same time? (it's been so long since I've played DKC2...brain fart!)

They would have to fight simultaneously in SSB...they didn't in DCK (I don't think any Kong duo actually did in DCK 1, 2, or 3...the 2nd Kong would just follow behind you and jump when you jump, not actually do anything or take damage unless they were the current leader), but for the sake of SSB, wouldn't the 2nd Kong have to do damage and take damage when when on screen, as you control the leading Kong? It'll just be like the IC, except with simians.

When you use a recovery move, the Kong will either hold on to your Kong, or like how the Pikmin always follow Olimar no matter what, just defy physics and make the jump with you.

As for the Final Smash, I had that covered by giving them the same FS, which would mean Diddy Kong's FS would have to be changed.

 

[WolfCypher]

However, didn't Sakurai say he tried to do the Diddy & Dixie combo character but he couldn't due to problems with the AI? Do you think its impossible to do, or do you think Sakurai's team was just simply too lazy or under time constraints?

Whatever they did to make the IC work, do that again.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

What does AI stand for?

And nice moveset for Dixie, Flyinflipino.

 

[WolfCypher]

Artificial Intelligence...


...this may not be true, but I read somewhere that originally the Ice Climbers in Melee was going to be a single character, with Nana being one of your alternate colors, before the idea of having them work together was brought up. If this is true, then they made a single character work as a duo character, so Diddy & Dixie can happen.

 

[flyinfilipino]

@Mike: Thanks!

I have a thought...what if instead of a tag-team, Diddy and Dixie functioned more like a "transformation"? (They're different characters, that's why there are " "; but the on-screen mechanic is more like a transformation)