[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Scott!]

@ bksbestbwoy: I like what you're saying for Zelda reps. The Toon Mode is interesting, though I think Toon Link could be decloned just as easily as Ganon. And for his final smash, I was hoping for him to play the Wind Waker, summon a huge tidal wave, and ride the King of Red Lions across the screen on it, having the wave do heavy damage and the boat KO, or something.

Honestly, I don't like Midna's chances unless she returns. If she does, then she jumps in likeliness, but otherwise, she's outdated. I wouldn't mind her, but she wouldn't represent the most recent in the Zelda franchise, which is what they usually go for in Smash.

Vaati would be fun. I like his chance, especially if he returns, but even without, it's possible. He's been around enough, I think.

What worries me is that there's another, more popular character in the series: Tingle. I hate him, and would probably hesitate about half a second before buying the game anyway if I heard he was in it. But he's the next most commonly used Zelda character. Plus, he's already in Smash as an AT. This worries me, especially since Tingle's big in Japan, with his own games and everything...

I think the Zelda series definitely deserves plenty of fighters, though Mario needs more. Zelda really only has 3 main recurring characters, with a few supporting others, like Vaati, Tingle, the Mask Salesman, and not too many others. Toon Link should stay, and I'd keep him separate, though a Toon Mode wouldn't be the end of the world. If Ganon isn't fixed... that would be bad. But whatever.

 

[Osi]

Lazy copy paste is lazy.

Anyway, continuing from where I left off, here's Round 2:

The Legend of Zelda (4-6 Characters)

- Link (Has a "Toon Mode" that modifies his style and appearance to Toon Link’s[?])
- Zelda/Sheik (Has a "Toon Mode" that modifies her style and appearance to Toon Zelda/Tetra [?])
- Ganondorf (Has a "Toon Mode" that modifies his style and appearance to Toon Ganondorf [?])
- Midna* (Humanoid)
- Vaati* (Humanoid)
- As of now unknown Zelda Wii important character*

Reasoning

The Legend of Zelda is yet another legendary franchise heralded by the combined force of Nintendo EAD and Shigeru Miyamoto. With its unique gameplay, memorable stories and immensely diverse character pool, it's a wonder to me how Smash has gotten away with a few things. For example (and the biggest one I have), Captain Ganondorf. That **** has to stop in the next game. For someone who is supposed to be the wielder of the power of the gods and an immensely powerful warlock thief regardless of that, he sure doesn't have anything backing that rep in Smash. I will admit though, there are some moves that he possesses now that would make me sad to see them go (namely Thunderstomp [Down Air], Flame Choke [Side Special] and Warlock Punch) if they de-clone him how I have envisioned. What Ganondorf needs is a total redo that allows him to show off what he is best, a warlock. They need to balance his brutish physicality with his supposedly legendary magic ability. Again, since Smash has barely grazed the surface in regards to witches, warlocks, spellcasters and magic in general, they potential is there to make him something incredibly unique and I'm sure that it wouldn't take much to get something great from him.

Next up is the Link/Toon Link debate. Some say that Toon Link needs to go because it isn't a situation where Luigification is enough, especially since we already have Link. Others, me included, would find it blasphemous to remove a character so integral to the series (if you treat him as the rep for the "Young" Link and universes that a younger Link pertain to that is). So then what do we do to appease both sides of this debate? I have an idea, namely a selectable "Toon mode". This would work in the following way. A person who chooses Link would then be able to click on Link's spot on the roster (much like Zelda/Sheik in Brawl) and they would be able to play as the Toon version of this character. Now we have to address the next part of this scenario which is making the characters more diversified.

Why the Windwaker wasn't Toon Link’s Final Smash I'll never know. The Ballad of The Gales was one of the first ideas I came up with for him when I first heard he was going to be in the game. Imagine summoning a fully controllable cyclone for a few seconds and letting it wreak havoc all over the stage? The next best thing would be the Four Sword. Imagine four Toon Links standing up on top of one another and unleashing one powerful Hurricane Spin that you could tilt in one direction or the other? Outside of a final smash though, Toon Link as is was a pretty ok job, so I'll leave this at that and move on to the last issue of business, namely Vaati vs. Midna vs. potential newcomer from Zelda Wii.

Midna is in a very similar situation as Rosalina from the last roster battle I put up. She started in the biggest, most recent and most anticipated game in the series. She has also grown on many people for her own endeavors in Twilight Princess. Some people have even asked for her to return in a future installment of the series. This all has given her some decent backing in terms of popularity and getting into Smash as well. As for how she would blend into the game itself, remember my notes about spellcasters and Smash. She uses magic and abilities that are wildly unlike anything the Zelda regulars are accustomed to [Twilight Princess spoilers!]Why hello there Final Smash worthy giant ethereal Twili Orochi-arm spear wielding spider thing! XD[/Twilight Princess spoilers] and as such she should never be subjected to a clone treatment should she get in.

Then there’s Vaati, a very interesting situation within the Zelda series. While Vaati has been the main and secondary antagonist in a few of the Zelda titles, there are more extenuating circumstances regarding his use in a game like Smash. He was jointly created by both Nintendo and Capcom (more specifically, Flagship) in the few Capcom co-developed Zelda games, namely The Minish Cap and Four Swords Adventure. Honestly, I believe that he should have the same rights to a Zelda spot as any other important Zelda character, mainly because not only is he important in the games he’s in, he is also one of the only important Zelda characters to have ever been created not entirely by Nintendo, thus giving him his own unique albeit somewhat convoluted title and history. As for movesets and possibilities, I get tired of repeating myself, silly.

The only thing left to find out is whether or not the next Zelda game has a main character that isn’t Link, Zelda, or Ganondorf but has merits that make them worthy of a Smash membership. Also, do you all think that LoZ is a big enough franchise to warrant a big roster a la my Mario idea?

Now with all that said and done, all I have left to ask is what do you think of the whole Toon mode thing? Is it plausible or not? The question mark next to them denotes that it might not be workable, but it’s still an idea to think about. With that, I’m done for tonight!

I agree with TL leaving... He was cool to see and all, but if it's wasting a slot on such a similar character/moveset to old Link then I'd rather leave him out.

Personally I'd love to see these next smash:
Old link - buffed and the old blue boomerang back
Toon zelda/tetra - To make the toon fans happy and a nice change of pace for them
Midna - Humanoid form with a unique moveset
Ganon - Unique moveset with the sword!


E3 this year they will display a playable version of the new Zelda for release late 09 early 2010, so there will likely be a new character in that too!

 

[justaway12]

Osi why should they get rid of toon link and add toon zelda I'm kinda confused by that are you saying she transforms into tetra? or does zelda have a different moveset.

 

[Osi]

Well I figure that zelda is pretty much a lock in the next game. Toon link was the representative of the windwaker saga which has a lot of die hard fans, so I thought making tetra replace zelda on the next one would be a nice change of pace. I'm suggesting only a toon zelda/tetra character, and not include the realistic zelda. Yea she would be her down B move. It just seems to me that this way tetra makes it in (pretty obvious they wanted her in brawl a bit), a toon zelda franchise character is in, and zelda fills her normal slot. Tetra would replace sheik and have a similar fast playstyle with maybe some moveset carry over.

 

[justaway12]

i see what you mean but won't a lot of zelda fans be angry i mean she is the original and they're basically replacing her with a small more cartoony version and she is extremely popular

 

[The Real Gamer]

You guys are getting it all wrong tbh.

Toon Link should indeed return. Wind Waker was easily one of the greatest games on Gamecube, if not Nintendo history itself.

The part they messed up on was his moveset. They should have let him be completely origional so he could use items from his own games such as the pegasus boots, skull hammer, or even the deku leaf would be a great idea for Toon Link's recovery to make him more unique. Too bad they made his moveset too much like Links.

TL has a LOT of options for a great moveset, and should definitely return.

 

[Osi]

You guys are getting it all wrong tbh.

Toon Link should indeed return. Wind Waker was easily one of the greatest games on Gamecube, if not Nintendo history itself.

The part they messed up on was his moveset. They should have let him be completely origional so he could use items from his own games such as the pegasus boots, skull hammer, or even the deku leaf would be a great idea for Toon Link's recovery to make him more unique. Too bad they made his moveset too much like Links.

TL has a LOT of options for a great moveset, and should definitely return.

Maybe it just has to do with me being a huge tetra fan. I may be bias on this one lol. When I heard she had fragments on the brawl disc ISO and was left out I got so sad. Toon link could be ok if they changed up his moveset a bit.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Maybe it just has to do with me being a huge tetra fan. I may be bias on this one lol. When I heard she had fragments on the brawl disc ISO and was left out I got so sad. Toon link could be ok if they changed up his moveset a bit.

I actually support Tetra as a character, and I think that would be a great idea, but I'm not sure if I'd take Tetra over Vaati (did I spell that right?) or Midna. It's a hard choice for sure.

Tetra
Vaati
Midna

Which do you guys choose?

 

[ChronoBound]

Maybe it just has to do with me being a huge tetra fan. I may be bias on this one lol. When I heard she had fragments on the brawl disc ISO and was left out I got so sad. Toon link could be ok if they changed up his moveset a bit.

You are thinking of Toon Zelda, who was planned to be a playable character at some point in Brawl's development. Another Zelda character called "Toon Sheik" was also planned at some point in Brawl's development, however, whether or not "Toon Sheik" was Tetra is inconclusive.

Also, to the above poster, interestingly enough, Vaati and Tetra both starred in the same number of games (which is three). However, it is important to note that Tingle, has starred in more games than those three characters you mentioned, and has even been the main protagonist of two games.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

I hope everyone here knows that I was strictly against the idea of axing Toon Link. Just putting it out here.

 

[espio87]

Lazy copy paste is lazy.

Anyway, continuing from where I left off, here's Round 2:

The Legend of Zelda (4-6 Characters)

- Link (Has a "Toon Mode" that modifies his style and appearance to Toon Link’s[?])
- Zelda/Sheik (Has a "Toon Mode" that modifies her style and appearance to Toon Zelda/Tetra [?])
- Ganondorf (Has a "Toon Mode" that modifies his style and appearance to Toon Ganondorf [?])
- Midna* (Humanoid)
- Vaati* (Humanoid)
- As of now unknown Zelda Wii important character*

Reasoning

The Legend of Zelda is yet another legendary franchise heralded by the combined force of Nintendo EAD and Shigeru Miyamoto. With its unique gameplay, memorable stories and immensely diverse character pool, it's a wonder to me how Smash has gotten away with a few things. For example (and the biggest one I have), Captain Ganondorf. That **** has to stop in the next game. For someone who is supposed to be the wielder of the power of the gods and an immensely powerful warlock thief regardless of that, he sure doesn't have anything backing that rep in Smash. I will admit though, there are some moves that he possesses now that would make me sad to see them go (namely Thunderstomp [Down Air], Flame Choke [Side Special] and Warlock Punch) if they de-clone him how I have envisioned. What Ganondorf needs is a total redo that allows him to show off what he is best, a warlock. They need to balance his brutish physicality with his supposedly legendary magic ability. Again, since Smash has barely grazed the surface in regards to witches, warlocks, spellcasters and magic in general, they potential is there to make him something incredibly unique and I'm sure that it wouldn't take much to get something great from him.

Next up is the Link/Toon Link debate. Some say that Toon Link needs to go because it isn't a situation where Luigification is enough, especially since we already have Link. Others, me included, would find it blasphemous to remove a character so integral to the series (if you treat him as the rep for the "Young" Link and universes that a younger Link pertain to that is). So then what do we do to appease both sides of this debate? I have an idea, namely a selectable "Toon mode". This would work in the following way. A person who chooses Link would then be able to click on Link's spot on the roster (much like Zelda/Sheik in Brawl) and they would be able to play as the Toon version of this character. Now we have to address the next part of this scenario which is making the characters more diversified.

Why the Windwaker wasn't Toon Link’s Final Smash I'll never know. The Ballad of The Gales was one of the first ideas I came up with for him when I first heard he was going to be in the game. Imagine summoning a fully controllable cyclone for a few seconds and letting it wreak havoc all over the stage? The next best thing would be the Four Sword. Imagine four Toon Links standing up on top of one another and unleashing one powerful Hurricane Spin that you could tilt in one direction or the other? Outside of a final smash though, Toon Link as is was a pretty ok job, so I'll leave this at that and move on to the last issue of business, namely Vaati vs. Midna vs. potential newcomer from Zelda Wii.

Midna is in a very similar situation as Rosalina from the last roster battle I put up. She started in the biggest, most recent and most anticipated game in the series. She has also grown on many people for her own endeavors in Twilight Princess. Some people have even asked for her to return in a future installment of the series. This all has given her some decent backing in terms of popularity and getting into Smash as well. As for how she would blend into the game itself, remember my notes about spellcasters and Smash. She uses magic and abilities that are wildly unlike anything the Zelda regulars are accustomed to [Twilight Princess spoilers!]Why hello there Final Smash worthy giant ethereal Twili Orochi-arm spear wielding spider thing! XD[/Twilight Princess spoilers] and as such she should never be subjected to a clone treatment should she get in.

Then there’s Vaati, a very interesting situation within the Zelda series. While Vaati has been the main and secondary antagonist in a few of the Zelda titles, there are more extenuating circumstances regarding his use in a game like Smash. He was jointly created by both Nintendo and Capcom (more specifically, Flagship) in the few Capcom co-developed Zelda games, namely The Minish Cap and Four Swords Adventure. Honestly, I believe that he should have the same rights to a Zelda spot as any other important Zelda character, mainly because not only is he important in the games he’s in, he is also one of the only important Zelda characters to have ever been created not entirely by Nintendo, thus giving him his own unique albeit somewhat convoluted title and history. As for movesets and possibilities, I get tired of repeating myself, silly.

The only thing left to find out is whether or not the next Zelda game has a main character that isn’t Link, Zelda, or Ganondorf but has merits that make them worthy of a Smash membership. Also, do you all think that LoZ is a big enough franchise to warrant a big roster a la my Mario idea?

Now with all that said and done, all I have left to ask is what do you think of the whole Toon mode thing? Is it plausible or not? The question mark next to them denotes that it might not be workable, but it’s still an idea to think about. With that, I’m done for tonight!

while i'm in favor of the Toon mode, I can't completely agree with Ganondorf. His hand to hand fighting style is great, and although he started as a captain Falcon clone, he feels like a really unique character in Brawl. They could change his Wizard's Foot with a projectile and his Dark Dive could be replaced with a Cable's upward spear attack from marvel vs capcom 2, although instead of a spear they could use Ganon's trident

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Toon Zelda. No way. If I see one more toon character or character like one I will go nuts.

 

[BKupa666]

Sakurai seems to want two Links playable, so I don't think TL will become an alt for Link.

Your logic is okay, but on the subject of Midna/Rosalina, they will probably not be in. Brawl was Midna's one chance, which didn't happen. I would love to see her, but I doubt it will happen. Vaati will probably appear if Zelda gets another rep.

And I fail to see how anyone can put Rosalina and Daisy over Bowser Jr. Daisy has always been a Peach alt, so that's not likely to change. And if you are talking in terms of roles, look at Rosalina's appearances:

Mario Galaxy
Mario Kart Wii

compared to Bowser Jr.'s appearance in Mario Sunshine and Galaxy, as well as many, many, nameless spin-offs. He's definitely more likely than Rosalina, and more wanted as well.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

Hmm, I'll admit that I didn't take into account Midna's freshness in regards to her actual chances of getting in, so I'll give that one to the few of you who brought that up. Rosalina however is pretty brand new and has a more than decent shot in the next game, especially since the Mario focus in that game will be Super Mario Galaxy. As for the person who brought up Bowser Jr. (I admit I have a bit of a bias I have against him being playable), when you put it like that, he does seem to be eligible, however he should only contend for that spot over Rosalina. Daisy is too important to Nintendo's history (and actually more likable) than Bowser Jr.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Hmm, I'll admit that I didn't take into account Midna's freshness in regards to her actual chances of getting in, so I'll give that one to the few of you who brought that up. Rosalina however is pretty brand new and has a more than decent shot in the next game, especially since the Mario focus in that game will be Super Mario Galaxy. As for the person who brought up Bowser Jr. (I admit I have a bit of a bias I have against him being playable), when you put it like that, he does seem to be eligible, however he should only contend for that spot over Rosalina. Daisy is too important to Nintendo's history (and actually more likable) than Bowser Jr.

FALSE

Bowser Jr. > Daisy

Daisy has mostly played a role in unimportant games to Nintendo's history such as Mario Party and Mario sports games.

Bowser Jr. on the other hand, has been in many non-Mario spinnoffs such as New Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Sunshine. (In which he was the main villan)

If we are going to talk about Daisy being playable, then that means that Waluigi should also have a possibility, and that is a NO.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

Super Mario Land, the very first portable Mario main series title and a big project for the beginnings of the Game Boy is unimportant now? Remember that Daisy's entire existence and kingdom was the main focus of this title. Not to mention the fact that as I stated before, she has sentimental appeal for being one of the last creations of Gunpei Yokoi. I'll admit that Bowser Jr. is important as of late, but Daisy does have a profound significance to Nintendo as well you know.

In the meantime, I'll be doing the next set of roster candidates soon.

 

[DekuBoy]

I want Skull Kid. He starred in the most memorable game I've ever played.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Super Mario Land, the very first portable Mario main series title and a big project for the beginnings of the Game Boy is unimportant now? Remember that Daisy's entire existence and kingdom was the main focus of this title. Not to mention the fact that as I stated before, she has sentimental appeal for being one of the last creations of Gunpei Yokoi. I'll admit that Bowser Jr. is important as of late, but Daisy does have a profound significance to Nintendo as well you know.

In the meantime, I'll be doing the next set of roster candidates soon.

Yes Daisy is somewhat significant to Nintendo, but the fact that she hasn't been in ANY non-Mario spinnoffs since then shows that her significance isn't enough to top Bowser Jr., who is constantly showing up in more and more Mario games.

I'm not saying Daisy isn't a good character idea at all, but when you try to compare the two Bowser Jr. wins by a longshot.

 

[Jimnymebob]

I think that Rosalina has a good chance of being an Assist Trophy- nothing else.

Also, Bowser Jr>Toad>Daisy

 

[justaway12]

why is toad>daisy i don't quite see the logic in that

 

[Kraryo]

It should be Toad > Bowser Jr > Daisy. Toad is one of the Big Eight and he has his own game (Wario Woods) unlike the other two. Bowser Jr is hated for replacing seven characters. Samus, Wario, and Pit are Gunpei's creations as well and they are both more signifigant than Daisy is. Not to mention that they aren't even semi-clones of anybody at all.

Daisy would be better suited as an alternate costume for Peach like what Wolf should of been for Fox.

 

[Jimnymebob]

why is toad>daisy i don't quite see the logic in that

Because Toad has been in a lot more games, he is more popular, and he has less chance of being a clone than Daisy has.

Also, SSB needs more non-princess female reps.

 

[justaway12]

It should be Toad > Bowser Jr > Daisy. Toad is one of the Big Eight and he has his own game (Wario Woods) unlike the other two. Bowser Jr is hated for replacing seven characters. Samus, Wario, and Pit are Gunpei's creations as well and they are both more signifigant than Daisy is. Not to mention that they aren't even semi-clones of anybody at all.

Daisy would be better suited as an alternate costume for Peach like what Wolf should of been for Fox.

wasn't wario woods a rip off of tetris? besides he is already a move what are they going to replace it with.

@Jimnymebob: she wouldn't be a clone some of peachs moves were taken from her games

floating and turnips:super mario bros. 2
frying pan:super mario rpg
and i think her Dair was taken from the super princess peach game

 

[Jimnymebob]

wasn't wario woods a rip off of tetris? besides he is already a move what are they going to replace it with.

@Jimnymebob: she wouldn't be a clone some of peachs moves were taken from her games

floating and turnips:super mario bros. 2
frying pan:super mario rpg
and i think her Dair was taken from the super princess peach game

Yes, some of Peach's moves were from her playable appearances, Daisy lacks playable appearances outside of the Party/ Sports games, and the fact that she's already a costume for Peach basically throws any chance of her being in or not being a clone out of the window.

 

[Osi]

There have been more appearances by boo/toad/birdo/shy guy in nintendo games than daisy right? I would like to move to other nintendo titles instead of just farming mario. I'm a huge toad/boo, but there are many other nintendo franchises I'd love to see in. I do agree daisy should just be a costume change on peach too!

 

[justaway12]

Yes, some of Peach's moves were from her playable appearances, Daisy lacks playable appearances outside of the Party/ Sports games, and the fact that she's already a costume for Peach basically throws any chance of her being in or not being a clone out of the window.

correct me if I'm wrong but other than super mario bros. 2 toad wasn't playable in any other games and even then he could run aster than everyone else and plucked turnips (just like peach) and he is one of princess peach moves what are they going to replace him with i agree that daisy should stay a costume but with a different personality although if one of them were made daisy should be more deserving

 

[Kraryo]

wasn't wario woods a rip off of tetris? besides he is already a move what are they going to replace it with.

With that logic, you are saying that all falling block puzzle games are ripoffs of Tetris. You obviously never played Wario Woods.

For Peach's nspecial, she could just use Toadsworth instead of Toad.

 

[justaway12]

With that logic, you are saying that all falling block puzzle games are ripoffs of Tetris. You obviously never played Wario Woods.

For Peach's nspecial, she could just use Toadsworth instead of Toad.

I never said I played wario woods but I did hear about and saw it,it was just a guess to what it is I'm just saying why he would should in SSB4 for something like this

 

[tehbestevar]

*hunts down*

How was my post stupid I just put my 5 bucks in

 

[WolfCypher]

Can someone refresh my memory? Wasn't Wario Woods the game with Bomberman? If not, what game am I thinking of, and what was Wario Woods?

 

[Dark Ryu]

Wario woods is a tetris style game with toad being the controllable character, and wario being the villian.

 

[tehbestevar]

basically its gonna own brawl lol i swear sakurai can NOT ruin this one. its going to be the epic insane game to end all games. im talking about another melee.

its gota take skill. huuge gap between nubs and pros. its gotta take a lot of practice and mindgames. a good cast where you can pick one out of the top 15 characters and win tournaments. maybe a good cast of 35 characters. make it hard on the fingers/brain yet never ending learning experiance.

sick online and things that people really want. stage edidtors that actually let u make stages not just put blocks together.

I believe Smash should be a game more oriented for ppl who are not into ultimate fighting games like DBZ: Budokai Tenkaichi or Mortal Kombat sp i will have to disagree with the "gap between nubs and pros thing

 

[SmashChu]

basically its gonna own brawl lol i swear sakurai can NOT ruin this one. its going to be the epic insane game to end all games. im talking about another melee.

its gota take skill. huuge gap between nubs and pros. its gotta take a lot of practice and mindgames. a good cast where you can pick one out of the top 15 characters and win tournaments. maybe a good cast of 35 characters. make it hard on the fingers/brain yet never ending learning experiance.

sick online and things that people really want. stage edidtors that actually let u make stages not just put blocks together.

Hmmmm, Wow. Yes people really love practicing games for hours on end and having huge gaps between players so they lose a lot.

No, you should be saying the tourney***s really want. People don't want to practice a game for hours on end and lose because they fail to practice for that astronomical amount of time. Brawl is designed with that in mind. That's why it sold so well. What you mentioned is not what normal people want.

 

[tehbestevar]

I just thought of some stage ideas:

Peach's Castle must return *hates Rainbow Cruise*


Twilight Princess Stage: stage that changes between Twilight and regular worlds for Zelda


Comet Observatory: This stage is a must since I want Rosalina as a playable character

 

[justaway12]

i did always want princess peachs castle to return after fountain of dreams and the other stages are also a good idea in super mario galaxy there is some sort of green platform hovering under the space observatory maybe the fighter can fight there so they can see all of the space observatory as they fight

 

[espio87]

i did always want princess peachs castle to return after fountain of dreams and the other stages are also a good idea in super mario galaxy there is some sort of green platform hovering under the space observatory maybe the fighter can fight there so they can see all of the space observatory as they fight

a super mario galaxy stage is not a good idea:

regardless, what I really want about stages is a stage hazard switch like in castlevania judgement. That way we can enjoy stages like the Halberd without worrying about the Combo Cannon

 

[justaway12]

you're right there should be a stage hazard switch and why would they remove a stage as awesome as that first they remove wavedashing and now this

 

[flyinfilipino]

Hmmmm, Wow. Yes people really love practicing games for hours on end and having huge gaps between players so they lose a lot.

No, you should be saying the tourney***s really want. People don't want to practice a game for hours on end and lose because they fail to practice for that astronomical amount of time. Brawl is designed with that in mind. That's why it sold so well. What you mentioned is not what normal people want.

Isn't that what practice is for: to get good at something? Is it wrong to be better at something than someone else? Melee sold extremely well, despite the competitive scene. The people that practice for hours probably aren't playing with the people don't care about getting good, so it doesn't affect them at all. A game that can cater to competitive gamers with deep gameplay (even if accidental) can still sell extremely well. What the "tourney***s" want won't hinder it at all. Just saying.

 

[Roihu]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Wario a costume for Mario in Melee and didn't everyone think he was gonna be a clone?

 

[DekuBoy]

That was different really, I think that was just to cater to Wario fans who were annoyed he wasn't in. No one wanted Daisy to be in Melee that costume was a bonus.

PS: THIS IS AWESOME