[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

Lets Start discussing third party characters for SSB4


Snake and Sonic guaranteed.


Possibilities (After we discuss we will vote)
Crash Bandicoot
Spyro
Sly
Ratchet(very easy to come up with a move set for him)
Knuckles
Tails
Eggman
Jak

There are a couple of problems with the characters I have crossed out.

1. Sly, Ratchet, and Jak have never been on a Nintendo system. Because of this, they cannot appear in SSB4.
2. Spyro is nowhere as significant as the remaining characters are to Nintendo's history.

The one left that sticks out the most is Crash. The reason why I'm willing to let him are:
1. He was Nintendo's Sonic in the Playstation days.
2. I'm probably not off from this assumption, but he is probably much more popular than Spyro is.

There are two arguments against him though:

1. He is an American franchise.
- I'm not sure if this actually has any grounding to it. Aside from the last two games, which haven't been released there for whatever reason, the Crash games have been released in Japan with good popularity.
2. His games aren't that great anymore.
- Mind Over Mutant, to me, is a good game worth at least a rental. If you think about it, the quality isn't as different as the console Sonic games.

 

[Serph]

Aside from all the character speculation, how about some music ideas?

Ganondorf Battle (Zelda: Twilight Princess)
The 11th Hour (Zelda: Majora's Mask)
Astral Observatory (Zelda: Majora's Mask)
Labyrinth (The Legend of Zelda)
Overworld 2 (Super Mario Bros. 3)
Bowser in the Dark World (Super Mario 64)
Dire, Dire Docks (Super Mario 64)
Good Egg Galaxy (Super Mario Galaxy)
Gusty Garden Galaxy (Super Mario Galaxy)
Purple Coins (Super Mario Galaxy)
Nemesis King Koopa (Super Mario Galaxy)
Credits (Pokemon Gold/Silver)
Sunnyshore City (Pokemon Diamond/Pearl)
Fear Factory (Donkey Kong Country)
Star Light Zone (Sonic the Hedgehog)
Chrome Gadget (Sonic the Hedgehog 3)
Sky Sanctuary (Sonic & Knuckles)

 

[Ultimate Ridley]

First of all, I am a die-hard Ridley supporter. I also do NOT support the following:

ANY Kingdom Hearts character
ANY FF7-13 character (FF1-6 characters are understandable)
Chuck Norris
Crash Bandicoot
Spyro
Jak and/or Daxter
Master Chief

And so on. So no one bash me for leaving any of those out of my roster.

I have made a COMPLETE moveset for both Ridley and the character I support even more: Omega Metroid.

Now, that does sound a tad farfetch'd, but only at first glance. Let's ask these questions:

Did Omega Metroid appear in two games and/or appear in a recent game for its series?

Yes. Many have only seen it as the final boss in Fusion, but you also have to kill three or four of them in Metroid II: Return of Samus. So it has appeared in two games.

Is Omega Metroid relevant to the Metroid series?

While most definitely not as relevant as Samus or Ridley, it is a Metroid.

Is it relevant to Nintendo's history?

It is relevant to the Metroid series, and therefore it is relevant to Nintendo's history. Metroid is a big first-party hit series, while not as large as Mario or Zelda, it is still very huge.

There. Here's a tip for you Sora and Cloud supporters: ask yourselves those questions and put Sora/Cloud/Spyro/Chuck Norris/Crash Bandicoot in the hot seat rather than Omega Metroid, and you have your answer on whether or not they even have a single chance of being playable.

Now, for my SR388 stage idea:

Stage: SR388
Unlocking Requirements (only one needs to be accomplished to unlock this stage):

• Unlock Omega Metroid
• Brawl as Samus 100 times

Description: Basically a cavern stage. You start at the top of the main tunnel, which has platforms and what not. Beneath you is lava. The lava doesn't raise, however; it only lowers. In the back, you may see Metroids floating about. You can also see other enemies like Hornoads and other species native to the planet. After about sixty seconds, the lava level lowers, and the screen scrolls downward until you reach the next pit of lava. (this is what happens in Metroid II when Samus kills a certain number of Metroids, allowing her to move on) The fight continues here, and the fight will get more hostile. You now fight next to the entrance of the water treatment plant, with the tunnel leading into it and the Metroid shell under it. Before the lava level lowers again, Arachnus rolls through the tunnel in ball form, then jumps onto the stage, attacking players. Players can beat Arachnus up, but only two things will kill it: knocking it into the lava, or bomb-based attacks. (Samus's Morph Ball Bombs, Link's Bombs, Bob-Ombs, etc.) The only way you could kill Arachnus in Metroid II was with Morph Ball Bombs, so yeah. The lava level lowers even further, causing a deeper stroll downward. At the end of this one, there is a large pillar that leads into the sewers area. On the other side is more lava. This phase offers a larger standing platform, and no gimmicks besides the lava. When the lava lowers again, you take an even deeper stroll, thus introducing more hostile creatures. At the end of this scroll, you will see a large black hole in the background, that which soon the Metroid Queen pops her head out of. The Queen submerges and emerges from the hole periodically, snapping at players on-screen and spitting acid. The snapping is about equivalent to Ultimate Chimera's damage, causing the same result; however, it is not very precise.

*Throughout the SR388 stage, you will endure the creatures inside the main tunnel. These creatures will deal damage to you, but you can also kill them.

EDIT: Apparently we aren't allowed to post movesets here...

Ultimate Ridley out.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Moveset goes where?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=207551

 

[RikotheFoxKid]

There are a couple of problems with the characters I have crossed out.

1. Sly, Ratchet, and Jak have never been on a Nintendo system. Because of this, they cannot appear in SSB4.
2. Spyro is nowhere as significant as the remaining characters are to Nintendo's history.

The one left that sticks out the most is Crash. The reason why I'm willing to let him are:
1. He was Nintendo's Sonic in the Playstation days.
2. I'm probably not off from this assumption, but he is probably much more popular than Spyro is.

There are two arguments against him though:

1. He is an American franchise.
- I'm not sure if this actually has any grounding to it. Aside from the last two games, which haven't been released there for whatever reason, the Crash games have been released in Japan with good popularity.
2. His games aren't that great anymore.
- Mind Over Mutant, to me, is a good game worth at least a rental. If you think about it, the quality isn't as different as the console Sonic games.

Crash being an American franchise isn't an entirely big deal. Diddy Kong was made by Rare, which is a European company.

 

[MasterCheeze]

Crash would be a good addition to SSB4. I mean, if you think about it, the only places Nintendo can ***** out characters from are the Mario games and Fire Emblem games, but I don't think they'll be putting in Boo, King Boo, Waluigi, Birdo, Daisy, Petey Pirahna, Bowser Jr., all the other Koopalings, Toad, Goomba, Koopa, Paratroopa, Cheep Cheep, Dry Bones, Toadette, Toadsworth, and Monty Mole all in Brawl.

Spoiler

(Waluigi, Daisy, Birdo, Bowser Jr., and maybe Petey Pirahna being the only good additions imo)

Nintendo needs to actually open up a bit and accept not only third-party characters that have had games on Nintendo systems, but third-party characters from OTHER system. Master Chief, Ratchet and Clank, and Jak and Daxter would be great additions to bring in Sony and Microsoft fans.

In my opinion, the Super Smash Bros. franchise should be more of a way to incorporate all the most radiant characters of gaming into one place. Yeah, it may lost some of its Nintendo-only feature, but almost everyone that plays video games should be able to recognize or like characters besides Mario.

 

[Nick The Potato]

Uhhhh...no.

 

[BrawlTilDawn309]

1. Sly, Ratchet, and Jak have never been on a Nintendo system. Because of this, they cannot appear in SSB4.

Yeah, quick question, is there any proof that they HAVE to be on a Nintendo system? or is that just an assumption b/c every character to date has been on a Nintendo system? If you can like provide me with a link saying that they need to be, then I'll be happy. Either way, I'm gonna want like Master Chief, Auron and Leon in Riot (my SSB4 name)

 

[Jimnymebob]

You got me interested at Starlight Zone.
I love that song.

 

[MasterCheeze]

You got me interested at Starlight Zone.
I love that song.

Ice Cap Zone ftw.

 

[RikotheFoxKid]

Crash would be a good addition to SSB4. I mean, if you think about it, the only places Nintendo can ***** out characters from are the Mario games and Fire Emblem games, but I don't think they'll be putting in Boo, King Boo, Waluigi, Birdo, Daisy, Petey Pirahna, Bowser Jr., all the other Koopalings, Toad, Goomba, Koopa, Paratroopa, Cheep Cheep, Dry Bones, Toadette, Toadsworth, and Monty Mole all in Brawl.

Spoiler

(Waluigi, Daisy, Birdo, Bowser Jr., and maybe Petey Pirahna being the only good additions imo)

Nintendo needs to actually open up a bit and accept not only third-party characters that have had games on Nintendo systems, but third-party characters from OTHER system. Master Chief, Ratchet and Clank, and Jak and Daxter would be great additions to bring in Sony and Microsoft fans.

In my opinion, the Super Smash Bros. franchise should be more of a way to incorporate all the most radiant characters of gaming into one place. Yeah, it may lost some of its Nintendo-only feature, but almost everyone that plays video games should be able to recognize or like characters besides Mario.

As much as that would be nice, I somewhat don't want that to happen.

All the franchises joining together is what my game is for (if you don't know what I'm talking about, see my post on page 692, and my subsequent posts on page 693). If Nintendo did the same thing, I'd feel kinda upset that they stole my idea!

 

[Kraryo]

I mean, if you think about it, the only places Nintendo can ***** out characters from are the Mario games and Fire Emblem games, but I don't think they'll be putting in Boo, King Boo, Waluigi, Birdo, Daisy, Petey Pirahna, Bowser Jr., all the other Koopalings, Toad, Goomba, Koopa, Paratroopa, Cheep Cheep, Dry Bones, Toadette, Toadsworth, and Monty Mole all in Brawl.

Spoiler

(Waluigi, Daisy, Birdo, Bowser Jr., and maybe Petey Pirahna being the only good additions imo)

Pokemon has tons of Pokemon that can reasonably fight in a game like Smash as a playable character. Star Fox also has a lot of characters that could be put in if Sakurai really wanted too like Krystal, Slippy, Peppy, Panther, Leon, Pigma, Andrew, James, General Pepper, Katt, Peppy's daughter, Slippy's girlfriend, Slippy's father, Bill, Dash, Marcus, and ROB 64. Zelda could have Tingle, Malon, Makar, Medli, Young Link (in the same roster as AL and TL), Ganon, Toon Zelda/Tetra, Deku Link/Goron Link/Zora Link, Wolf Link, Bunny Link, Dark Link, Midna, etc.

Of course, all SF characters would be very terrible choices for a newcomer to SSB4 with the very obvious exception Krystal.

 

[Red Arremer]

I'd prefer a polearm user from Fire Emblem over Krystal anyday. Ephraim would make such a great choice, he's from one of the little Fire Emblem games released in ALL areas, is a lord and uses freaking lances.
Star Fox doesn't need 4 characters. It doesn't even really need 3. And both Fox and Wolf have to stay. If Star Fox has 4 characters in SSB4 or 3 without one being Wolf, there's gonna be blood spilled.

 

[Kraryo]

Falco's character model and design are way different from Fox's, so he's better than Wolf. Since he's one of the most controversal newcomers in Brawl and the second semiclone for Fox, Wolf will probably end up like Doc. Luigi will probably be luigified even more untill his A moves aren't even similar to Mario's.

 

[Kisamealex3]

I think that Mii's or whatever Nintendo's trademark for the future system should be a playably character.

And Rosalina from Super Mario Galaxy should be a character.

 

[Lord Viper]

And Rosalina from Super Mario Galaxy should be a character.

Too many Mario chracters. x_x

To add, she's very new to the series and not known as much as the other Mario chracters like Bowser Jr etc.

 

[Problem2]

I have a move that I think Yoshi should have in the next Smash Bros.

1st: replace yoshi's egg shield with a normal shield like everyone else.
2nd: Reassign Yoshi's swallow attack to Forward-B

Rolling Egg Shield

By pressing B, Yoshi will enter his Egg shield that use to be his main shield. It works slightly different than it used to though. First, it takes slightly longer for it to weaken, and it takes as long for Yoshi to get out of it as it did for Yoshi to exit Egg Roll.

The trick is, Yoshi can use Egg Shield in the air and even roll freely in it while on the ground (not up to speed of Egg Roll). Yoshi cannot shield grab, dodge roll, spot dodge, or jump out of rolling egg shield.

Q: Why do this?
A: Yoshi's Shield currently is a disadvantage to him. He can't jump out of it, it dodge rolls slowly, he can't powershield, and he can't leave it very quickly. Also, as of Brawl, Yoshi's Egg roll has went from pretty bad, to down right useless. One of the best ways to improve a character is to take flawed moves and turn them into a strength.

Q:This is broken, he can shield in the air!
A: If I recall correctly, Kirby can make himself invincible while airborne by using his Down-B. The New Egg Shield have to be balanced in the right way so that it wouldn't be abusable. Going into his shield while in the air would be slower than on ground, and leaving his shield will cause him to momentarily freeze in the air, Leaving him vulnerable.

 

[~Cruxis~]

I really think Krystal would be a great asset to a Smash game. I could care less about canons or philosophical matters, she is liked more than disliked.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

I really think Krystal would be a great asset to a Smash game. I could care less about canons or philosophical matters, she is liked more than disliked.

I liker her, but I don't think she should be in unless Star Fox is worthy of a 4th rep by SSB4 or Falco or Wolf is cut.


@Problem2: Looks like an interesting idea you've got there. So am I correct to assume that Yoshi would be given a standard shield in place of the egg one?

 

[~Cruxis~]

I liker her, but I don't think she should be in unless Star Fox is worthy of a 4th rep by SSB4 or Falco or Wolf is cut.


@Problem2: Looks like an interesting idea you've got there. So am I correct to assume that Yoshi would be given a standard shield in place of the egg one?

Most likely Wolf would be, and he would become the next Mewtwo...

 

[SmashBrosMike]

I really think Krystal would be a great asset to a Smash game. I could care less about canons or philosophical matters, she is liked more than disliked.

I agree. Krystal would be cool.

Although I wonder what her moveset would be?

 

[~Cruxis~]

I agree. Krystal would be cool.

Although I wonder what her moveset would be?

It is safe to say that she would use the magic rod from Star Fox Adventures, with elements and all.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

I agree. Krystal would be cool.

Although I wonder what her moveset would be?

See, this is one of the things I worry about with Krystal. While she could be really unique with her staff, her only trophy in Brawl is her assault outfit, which means that she could end up actually being another semi-clone of Fox

 

[SmashBrosMike]

But come to think of it. I know of a good final smash for her.


What about the Krazoa Spirits.

 

[smilelelele]

megaman and banjo-kazooie. and maybe wolf link from twilight princess, but as a transformation character for link.

 

[~Cruxis~]

See, this is one of the things I worry about with Krystal. While she could be really unique with her staff, her only trophy in Brawl is her assault outfit, which means that she could end up actually being another semi-clone of Fox

That is what I was afraid of. I figured her debut appearance should be her actual style. Assault was a more popular game than Adventures, so they wanted to flaunt THAT version of her.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

megaman and banjo-kazooie. and maybe wolf link from twilight princess, but as a transformation character for link.

Megaman could appear although I don't want him, but Banjo-Kazooie.

Sorry but it will never happen ever since Micro**** got their dirty hands on Rareware.

THOSE ROTTEN *******S!

 

[bobcat_29]

umm all the pokemon back, add kingdom hearts characters and more girls keep the cast now but you can get rid of unnecessary clones like toon link although i think the clones are more for the players choice than just filling a character spot

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Well I won't mind if Toon Link would return, only if they give him a different moveset. Then he is good to go.

I also have a moveset for Krystal. It may sound like a another fox clone, but it is all I could think of. Anyway here it is.


Krystal

B: Plasma Cannon - Krystal takes a Plasma Cannon out and fires it. This will shoot out plasma blasts and gives huge damage to Characters who get hit.

Up B: Booster Pack - Krystal uses a device to boost her up in the air and then comes back down.

Side B: Portal Device - Krystal uses a device and a portal appears. She goes in and then the portal appears on the other side. She then comes out and attacks anyone nearby with a quick strike.

Down B: Sensor Bomb - Krystal takes out a bomb and throws it. Any Character who takes a step on the bomb will blow up on them.

Final Smash: Krazoa Spirits - Krystal breaks the Smash Ball and then summons many Krazoa Spirits as they attack all the Characters before disappearing.

 

[Kraryo]

See, this is one of the things I worry about with Krystal. While she could be really unique with her staff, her only trophy in Brawl is her assault outfit, which means that she could end up actually being another semi-clone of Fox

In Brawl, Wario can do stuff wearing his Ware outfit that he only did before in his overalls like Shoulder Charge and has a bite attack quite similar to his inhale ability in Wario World. Also, Wario's UpB is named after an ability in Wario World.

Likewise, Wario can do stuff in Brawl that he never did before when he was wearing overalls like riding the Wario Bike and becoming Wario Man.

So even if Krystal isn't wearing her Adventures clothing, I'm pretty sure that she would use her staff for her A moves. Hopefully, Sakurai doesn't screw up on her B moves like with Lucas.

There aren't that many 1st/2nd party characters left to do for SSB4 anyways. There's Krystal, Ridley, AC rep, Isaac, Dixie, and Krool if they don't go over the 4 slot "limit" or replace somebody.

In Brawl, the non-(semi)clone or replacement 1st/2nd party newcomers were Wario, Diddy, MK, D3, Zamus, Olimar, Pit, ROB, and PT (3 in 1). That's 11 characters to program, counting PT as 3 characters. Olimar must of been hard to make because of his Pikmin. It wouldn't be as hard to make 6 unique non-gimmick characters as it is to make 11 with 1+3 of them being gimmicks.

Ridley would probably be the hardest one to make.

 

[~Cruxis~]

In Brawl, Wario can do stuff wearing his Ware outfit that he only did before in his overalls like Shoulder Charge and has a bite attack quite similar to his inhale ability in Wario World. Also, Wario's UpB is named after an ability in Wario World.

Likewise, Wario can do stuff in Brawl that he never did before when he was wearing overalls like riding the Wario Bike and becoming Wario Man.

So even if Krystal isn't wearing her Adventures clothing, I'm pretty sure that she would use her staff for her A moves. Hopefully, Sakurai doesn't screw up on her B moves like with Lucas.

There aren't that many 1st/2nd party characters left to do for SSB4 anyways. There's Krystal, Ridley, AC rep, Isaac, Dixie, and Krool if they don't go over the 4 slot "limit" or replace somebody.

In Brawl, the non-(semi)clone or replacement 1st/2nd party newcomers were Wario, Diddy, MK, D3, Zamus, Olimar, Pit, ROB, and PT (3 in 1). That's 11 characters to program, counting PT as 3 characters. Olimar must of been hard to make because of his Pikmin. It wouldn't be as hard to make 6 unique non-gimmick characters as it is to make 11 with 1+3 of them being gimmicks.

Ridley would probably be the hardest one to make.

Ridlet would be halved like they did Charizard,

 

[gantrain05]

i wish some of you people would stop acting like you KNOW what could ever possibley get into a smash game, and your talking like you spoke to sakurai himself, he never ever ever once said that a character has to "at least be in 2 nintendo games and be important to the nintendo franchise" if that was true snake would never get in, he has 2 games on the NES one of them was meh, it was ok and the other one completely sucked and in no way was it ever important to the nintendo franchise, also putting a limit on the number of characters a certain franchise can get, i never heard anything like that either, he can put whoever the **** he wants in the game. the ice climbers and pit have both had 1 single game on the nes, just ONE, and they both sucked, and yet here they are in a smash game, and ROB wasn't ever even a nintendo character, he was a freakin trojan horse to get nintendo into america, which it would have gotten here anyways. so before you start flaming other people for their opinions and what they would want in a smash bros. game, just think to yourself, "oh, well thats their opinion and i can respect that"

 

[Kraryo]

Ridlet would be halved like they did Charizard,

By being halved, you mean having a similar playstyle to another character or his size? I imagine Ridley being like Charizard, but with different B moves.

His ^B would be Shuttle Loop, since he used it as an attack in Brawl. NB would be big fireball, >B would be small fireballs with a fire rate faster than the big ones, and vB would be a ground pound like Bowser.

 

[~Cruxis~]

i wish some of you people would stop acting like you KNOW what could ever possibley get into a smash game, and your talking like you spoke to sakurai himself, he never ever ever once said that a character has to "at least be in 2 nintendo games and be important to the nintendo franchise" if that was true snake would never get in, he has 2 games on the NES one of them was meh, it was ok and the other one completely sucked and in no way was it ever important to the nintendo franchise, also putting a limit on the number of characters a certain franchise can get, i never heard anything like that either, he can put whoever the **** he wants in the game. the ice climbers and pit have both had 1 single game on the nes, just ONE, and they both sucked, and yet here they are in a smash game, and ROB wasn't ever even a nintendo character, he was a freakin trojan horse to get nintendo into america, which it would have gotten here anyways. so before you start flaming other people for their opinions and what they would want in a smash bros. game, just think to yourself, "oh, well thats their opinion and i can respect that"

In the last couple of posts, nobody had any opinions like that. I dont like that either, though.

 

[DEDEDEJr]

I am quite satisfied with Brawl. But as long as we're dreaming...I hope all the songs in Brawl make it to the next one, I hope for Capcom and Square Enix to get involved, I hope there aren't any broken characters, and I hope we get more Earthbound/Mother related stuff! That would hopefully mean Onett and New Pork City returning!

 

[Panix]

Must I say anymore?

 

[Agi]

Must I say anymore?

he's pretty much like link but stronger and has different specials
________________________________
specials:

up B = great spin
just like links

B = fierce diety swings his sword and a dark wave is sent

Side B = he jumps sideways and stabs

down B = fierce diety strikes his sword on the ground and a dark wave circles him

finale smash = majora's incarnation
fierce deity turns into majora's incarnation and runs around the stage attacking any one

Enough said.

 

[Serph]

Fierce Deity would be a waste. We don't need any more Links. If Zelda gets another rep then it should be Vaati.

 

[knightzy]

listen up, i hope for is for smash to not go anymore characters once it hits 43,as it will become like the newer mortal combat ****,they could swap charaters out though

 

[Red Arremer]

Falco's character model and design are way different from Fox's, so he's better than Wolf.

However, Falco uses an extremely similar fighting style unlike Wolf, whose standard and most special attacks are all completely different. Granted, Falco was in 2 games, though, which makes him more likely to be carried over.

Since he's one of the most controversal newcomers in Brawl and the second semiclone for Fox

Uhhh... Wolf is only "controversial" because he has a Landmaster and similar Specials to Fox, making him a second, as you name it, luigified clone. That's actually the only reason why Wolf is disliked by some people, except they're fanboys of those blue wobbling boobies.
There definitely is a reason why he was to be included as one of the last characters in the game.

Wolf will probably end up like Doc.

With the great difference that Dr. Mario was a direct clone with the exact same moves just a few cosmetic changes and a few "twists" statwise, while Wolf is absolutely different except a couple of specials and the Final Smash.

@gantrain:
Sure, we're speculating in this thread, though.