[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

Why do people hate R.O.B. so much?

Most people think he's TOO out of place in the game.

 

[Jimnymebob]

I like R.O.B because he's cute lol.
He's a little robot toy accessory hybrid.

 

[Red Arremer]

Most people think he's TOO out of place in the game.

But he really isn't. He's an important part of Nintendo's history, and he adds an interesting - because odd - aspect into the game. Not to mention he's incredibly cute. Even though his games sucked.
Snake and Sonic are more out of place than R.O.B. is.

 

[SirKibble]

Does Falco really still feel like a clone to you people? Ganondorf I can understand, and Toon Link is undoubtfully a replica with needed differences. But Luigi, Falco and Wolf are fine. I think they still seem like a clone to most of us because their designs are too similar.

Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure Falco shares more moves with Fox than Toon Link does with Link. In any case, Toon Link's not much more or less clone than Falco is. Ganondorf is the most needing of de-cloning. Wolf is hardly a clone at all. He shares, like, two moves with Fox.

 

[Roihu]

Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure Falco shares more moves with Fox than Toon Link does with Link. In any case, Toon Link's not much more or less clone than Falco is. Ganondorf is the most needing of de-cloning. Wolf is hardly a clone at all. He shares, like, two moves with Fox.

Toon Link has different moves than Link?
The only thing different I've seen is the lag differences and the times it hits.
And Sonic fits right in IMO.
Snake does not.

 

[DekuBoy]

Not enough King K.Rool.

Anyone want Prof. Layton in the game? (-:

 

[Jimnymebob]

Not enough King K.Rool.

Anyone want Prof. Layton in the game? (-:

I agree, and no, I don't want Professor Layton.

 

[Pieman0920]

Just as a dumb little reminder, if Baby Mario (Or Baby Mario teamed up with Baby Luigi) were in Smash, they'd actually be placed in the Yoshi series, and not the Mario one. Because of that, I reckon that they have a higher chance than most people give them credit for. The Yoshi series is the only one of the original 8 (Not counting unlockable, and counting ZSS serperatly) series that doesn't have a second character. As Kamek is technically just a generic enemy, and there are no other real canidates, I'd think that the babies really do have a good chance.

 

[Linkshot]

Toon Link has a different b, f, and nAir. bThrow is different, too, I think.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

Toon Link has a few different moves, but I think he still could use A LOT more.

 

[Linkshot]

His specials could be way different. I won't get into it again.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

My character wishes:

The Brawl cast should mostly stay intact, minus ROB. He only felt like a viable choice because of his role in SSE. Other than that, I think he should be axed. Although, I wouldn't mind either way.

Since the Mario series is the de facto character limit, I think some characters from said universe should be added. Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and Baby Mario Bros. are my picks (although the latter could arguably be a Yoshi character). Wolf Link would be a welcome addition IMO as well. It would give both him and Mario three forms instead of him outnumbering Mario in forms.

Dedede, Olimar, and Wario should be moved into the unlockable list.

Falcon, Ness, Marth, Sonic, and Snake should be bumped up to starters.

Dixie Kong would be great. Smash is lacking in the female character department, so I'd welcome her with open arms. Same with Krystal. Although, you might say Star Fox has too many reps already.

Eliwood as Roy's spiritual successor. Fire Emblem has such a large character pool and Eliwood is popular enough to suffice. F-Zero also has a large pool, and the one who makes the most sense would be Samurai Goroh. To add another Pokemon to the deck, Plusle and Minum were possible Brawlers, why not be Rumblers? (I'm so calling Super Smash Bros. Rumble as the next game's title)

Isaac and Lip would be great new series reps. Lip for added females, Isaac for more Golden Sun publicity.

About third-party characters, I would like to see a new universe as well as expansion on the other two. Tails and Knuckles are shoe-ins, but for MGS, I'd have to say Raiden, for his role in MGS2. About a new universe, Megaman and all that are great choices, but I think the most recognizable choice would be Pac-Man. I think these four characters should be super hard to unlock though, especially Pac-Man

Therefore my list:
(*=unlockable)

-MARIO: Mario, Luigi*, Peach, Bowser, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario*, Baby Mario Bros*
-DK: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong*, King K. Rool*
-ZELDA: Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf*, Toon Link*, Wolf Link*
-METROID: Samus/ZSS, Ridley
-YOSHI: Yoshi
-KIRBY: Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede
-STARFOX: Fox, Falco*, Wolf*, Krystal
-POKEMON: Pikachu, Jigglypuff*, Pokemon Trainer, Lucario*, Plusle and Minum*
-MOTHER: Ness, Lucas
-F-ZERO: Captain Falcon, Samurai Goroh*
-ICE CLIMBER: Ice Climbers
-FIRE EMBLEM: Marth, Ike, Eliwood*
-GAME & WATCH: Mr. Game and Watch*
-WARIO: Wario*
-KID ICARUS: Pit
-PIKMIN: Olimar*
-GOLDEN SUN: Isaac
-PANEL DE PON: Lip
-METAL GEAR: Snake, Raiden*
-SONIC: Sonic, Tails*, Knuckles*
-PAC-MAN: Pac-Man*

TOTAL: 49 characters.

Let me fix the roster.

There much better and King Dedede was at the start not hidden. So there fixed.

 

[Red Arremer]

IDIOT! You Forgot King K. Rool! How can you not put him in!

Stop insulting others for their ideas.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Stop insulting others for their ideas.

Oh sorry, I edited it though. I am just stressed today from school. Anyway sorry.

 

[SirKibble]

Toon Link has different moves than Link?
The only thing different I've seen is the lag differences and the times it hits.

Almost all his aerials, his U-Smash, and his B-Throw are notably different.

And then there are the tiny tweaked differences in things like his F-Smash and Specials, but I guess those probably just feel un-clone-like to me because I play the guy.

On second thought, Falco's on about the same page. I just don't play/like Falco. Either way, neither is as clone as people make them sound.

 

[Linkshot]

Falco has a different b, n, uAir, jab, uTilt, fSmash, MAYBE fAir (just animation), Down+B, and sort of B. Much different from Toon Link.

And, yeah, I knew I forgot a Smash in there.

Ganondorf: Tilts, uSmash, fAir, Side+B.

Wolf only shares Up+B with Fox. The reflector, Blaster, and Illusion/Phantasm are different. The Dash looks like Fox's uSmash but functions differently.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

Ganondorf's u-tilt is borderline a clone move. It's the same motion as Falcon's except it's a lot slower and stronger and it has a neat little graphical effect.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Well this is my roster for SSB4.


Characters who don't have a * means they are playable at the start.

* means the Character must be unlocked.




My Roster for SSB4:

Mario Side - Mario, Peach, Bowser, Luigi*, Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario*, Paper Mario*

Yoshi Side - Yoshi

Wario Side - Wario, Mona, Waluigi*

Donkey Kong Side - Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong*, King K. Rool*

Legend of Zelda Side - Link, Zelda/Shiek, Ganondorf*, Toon Link*

Kirby Side - Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede

Metroid Side - Samus/Zero Suit Samus, Ridley

StarFox Side - Fox McCloud, Krystal, Falco Lombardi*, Wolf O'Donnell*

Pokemon Side - Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, Jigglypuff*, Meowth*, Lucario*

F-Zero Side - Captain Falcon*, Black Shadow*

Earthbound Side - Lucas, Ness*

Fire Emblem Side - Ike, Marth*, Lyndis*

Misc. Side - Ice Climbers, Pit, Captain Olimar, Isaac, Lip, R.O.B.*, Mr. Game & Watch

Third Party Side - Snake*, Sonic*




Total: 26 playable characters at the start + 22 unlockable characters = 48 playable Characters.

I think two third parties are enough and that is what it should be, but that is my opinion. Anyway that is my roster for SSB4.

 

[SirKibble]

Falco has a different b, n, uAir, jab, uTilt, fSmash, MAYBE fAir (just animation), Down+B, and sort of B. Much different from Toon Link.

How is that so much more different than Toon Link is from Link?

Falco
- B-Air
- N-Air
- U-Air
- Jab (I'm assuming you mean his Standard Combo)
- U-Tilt
- F-Smash
- Down Special

Okay, so that's 7.

Toon Link
- U-Smash
- N-Air
- F-Air
- B-Air
- D-Air
- B-Throw

There's 6.

That's not too significant of a difference. And if we get into "sort of"s and "maybe"s, the difference isn't going to change by much.

Wolf only shares Up+B with Fox. The reflector, Blaster, and Illusion/Phantasm are different. The Dash looks like Fox's uSmash but functions differently.

Okay, I don't use Wolf at all, but I have this burning question every time someone talks about this:

How is his reflector different from Fox's???

 

[Shadow Huan]

Quoting myself with an altered list... I just want any opinions on characters and whatever...


Character wants for SSB4.

1: Mewtwo. Bring him Back! (Powered up moveset and an overall improvement: as should've been done in Brawl.) Final Smash: Hyper Beam? Like the ones on Spear Pillar, but bigger and far stronger?

2: A non-clone Ganondorf: with his sword and probably the magic attacks from OOT. What does Nintendo's version of Sauron have in common with a space age racer from the future?! Final Smash: Either keep it the same, or... hmmm...

3: Midna/Wolf Link. Characters that really should've been in. You want a very unique character? Here it is... Final Smash: Twilight Deity. Midna donns the Fused shadows, while WL grabs onto a foe and holds them in place. The spear attack from midna can only hit one person, but its very strong.

4: Ridley. Nothing is to be said about him being too big. Olimar's too small, but he's there!
Final smash. Think a Dragoon like fly-by attack...

5: Dark Samus. Why not? She/it is Samus's most powerful foe, and anyone who has played MP2 and 3 knows that DS would not be a clone if done right. And as for being dead, Ganondorf died in the WW and TP, but at least one is in Brawl... Final Smash: Metroid Prime. DS turns into MP, blasting the stage with flames and Phazon puddles. Lasts 15 seconds...

6: Geno. Why, lots of people want him, and he'd have shoo-in specials... but he might be a bit slanted towards long range moves... he didn't use is fists much in SMRPG... Final smash: Ummm... Geno Whirl?

7: Mallow. Another unique character, but I think he would be slanted towards specials... Final smash: I don't have any ideas... Any suggestions?

8: Megaman. No explanation is needed... Final Smash... lol see Mallow...

9: King K. Rool. DK needs a villian! No matter how stupid... Final Smash: Cannonball barrage. Like the one from the fight in DKC!

10: Dixie Kong. A tag team with Diddy maybe? Or possibly... Kiddy...? (Shudders) Final smash... um... the Queen Banna bird from DKC3? I don't know...

11: Kaptain K. Rool. Probably not, since he's got a gun... guns are kinda Tabuu () in SSB. Final Smash: :embarrass Uhh... just shoots his gun like crazy?

12: Bowser Jr./ Shadow Mario. With the paintbrush, clearly not a Bowser/Mario clone. Final Smash: Shadow Mario/ bowser Jr. Ala Samus!

13: Krystal. Star fox needs a fighter that doesn't have a blaster, reflector, ect. With the staff, looking at a cool and unique fighter... final smash... A Dinosaur Stampede?

Stage wants.

1: Two words: Bowser's Castle.

2: How about Duck Hunt?

3: A Super Mario Galaxy level. Wanna make FD look like nothing? There you go!

3: A level from MP2. Dark Aether/ Light Aether?

4: A level from MP3... Phazze?

5: Dinosaur Planet.

6: Mewtwo's Arena, or something that has something to do with the character...

Assist trophies.

1: Rambi.

2: V-Joe.

3: A villian from D.K.

4: That's it! Cranky Kong! (Like Mr. Resetii!)

Misc.

A completely vammped stage builder. A revammed story mode that has voice acting, or subtitles at the very least. As for anything else regarding 1 Player mode, surprise me, but in a good way... No clone Final Smashes: this means two of the three Landmaster tanks must go! ...Not to mention the Links... I think that's it for now...

 

[Red Arremer]

Okay, I don't use Wolf at all, but I have this burning question every time someone talks about this:

How is his reflector different from Fox's???

itz red lul u nub

Wolf's reflector adds invincibility frames, does less damage but has way higher priority (it can reflect some Final Smashes) and range, and is basically the best reflector in the game.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

Well Since we're posting rosters, may as well post my own. This is partly who I think will get in, and partly who I want to get in, so keep that in mind before you flame me.

characters in red are maybes/unsure. Asteriks are newcomers

Mario Series
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
*Bowser Jr

Yoshi Series
Yoshi
*Kamek

Wario Series
Wario
*Captain Syrup

DK series
DK
Diddy
*King.KRool

Metroid Series
Samus/ZZS
*Ridley

Legend of Zelda
Link
Zelda/Shiek
Gannondorf
other version of Link

Star Fox series
Fox
Falco
Wolf
*Krystal (if the series is deserving of four characters by SSB4, OR Falco or Wolf is cut)

Kirby Series
Kirby
Meta Knight
Dedede

Fire Emblem
Marth
Ike
*Main Lord of newest FE game

Pokemon
Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario (might be replaced by 5th gen rep)
Jigglypuff
*Mewtwo (counts as newcomer since he isn't in Brawl)
*5th gen rep

Earthbound
Ness
Lucas

F-Zero
Captain Falcon
*Samurai Goroh OR Black Shadow

Retro/Obscure
Ice Climbers
Game&Watch
Pit
ROB
Olimar
*Mach Rider

Third Party
Sonic
Snake
*Megaman


TOTAL = 46 characters, not counting transformations

 

[SirKibble]

itz red lul u nub

Wolf's reflector adds invincibility frames, does less damage but has way higher priority (it can reflect some Final Smashes) and range, and is basically the best reflector in the game.

But those are just tweaks. You can't use that to argue that it's not clone-like. Otherwise, I can use the fact that Toon Link's boomerang damages, rather than pulls, on its way back from being thrown, and can be angled farther up or down than Link's can.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

IMO:

Wolf's reflector = clone

Falco's reflector = not clone (there's a big difference between a melee attack and a projectile)

 

[MasterWarlord]

Gannondorf

GANNON BANNED

 

[Red Arremer]

Yes. Noone denies that the Reflector is a clone, but that's what some series seem to have in common. Look at Fire Emblem (Counter), MOTHER (PK Thunder, Fire AND Psi Magnet), and Kirby (Inhale, even tho that's only 2 of them), Mario (and Luigi, havin' Firebawlz and Jump Punches).

Just because one move is practically the same as the "base" moveset's, it doesn't mean that the moveset is a clone. Wolf, out of all clones and "similar" movesets is actually the most unique one. His A attacks are all different, and his Specials may seem similar to Fox', but except for the Reflector they ARE different.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

Yes. Noone denies that the Reflector is a clone, but that's what some series seem to have in common. Look at Fire Emblem (Counter), MOTHER (PK Thunder, Fire AND Psi Magnet), and Kirby (Inhale, even tho that's only 2 of them), Mario (and Luigi, havin' Firebawlz and Jump Punches).

That's not series commonality, that's just Sakaurai being a lazy bum. Othewise you may as well agrue that Legend of Zelda and F-Zero simply share Falcon Punch, Falcon kicK, and Falcon Dive as iconic traits.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Well Since we're posting rosters, may as well post my own. This is partly who I think will get in, and partly who I want to get in, so keep that in mind before you flame me.

characters in red are maybes/unsure. Asteriks are newcomers

Mario Series
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
*Bowser Jr

Yoshi Series
Yoshi
*Kamek

Wario Series
Wario
*Captain Syrup

DK series
DK
Diddy
*King.KRool

Metroid Series
Samus/ZZS
*Ridley

Legend of Zelda
Link
Zelda/Shiek
Gannondorf
other version of Link

Star Fox series
Fox
Falco
Wolf
*Krystal (if the series is deserving of four characters by SSB4, OR Falco or Wolf is cut)

Kirby Series
Kirby
Meta Knight
Dedede

Fire Emblem
Marth
Ike
*Main Lord of newest FE game

Pokemon
Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario (might be replaced by 5th gen rep)
Jigglypuff
*Mewtwo (counts as newcomer since he isn't in Brawl)
*5th gen rep

Earthbound
Ness
Lucas

F-Zero
Captain Falcon
*Samurai Goroh OR Black Shadow

Retro/Obscure
Ice Climbers
Game&Watch
Pit
ROB
Olimar
*Mach Rider

Third Party
Sonic
Snake
*Megaman


TOTAL = 46 characters, not counting transformations

I hear you and its okay. It is your roster anyway.

 

[Lord Viper]

Christmas Kirby for SSB4. :D

 

[SirKibble]

Yes. Noone denies that the Reflector is a clone, but that's what some series seem to have in common. Look at Fire Emblem (Counter), MOTHER (PK Thunder, Fire AND Psi Magnet), and Kirby (Inhale, even tho that's only 2 of them), Mario (and Luigi, havin' Firebawlz and Jump Punches).

Just because one move is practically the same as the "base" moveset's, it doesn't mean that the moveset is a clone. Wolf, out of all clones and "similar" movesets is actually the most unique one. His A attacks are all different, and his Specials may seem similar to Fox', but except for the Reflector they ARE different.

Oh, I'm not saying Wolf's a clone at all. He's anything but. It just bothers me when people use his Down Special as an example of a reason why he's not. Pretty much anything else is a good argument, aside from his Landmaster and I'd even say the Up Special is similar enough that it's not a good argument. Anything besides those is a good argument against his clone-age.

 

[Shadow Huan]

Well Since we're posting rosters, may as well post my own. This is partly who I think will get in, and partly who I want to get in, so keep that in mind before you flame me.

characters in red are maybes/unsure. Asteriks are newcomers

Mario Series
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
*Bowser Jr

Yoshi Series
Yoshi
*Kamek

Wario Series
Wario
*Captain Syrup

DK series
DK
Diddy
*King.KRool

Metroid Series
Samus/ZZS
*Ridley

Legend of Zelda
Link
Zelda/Shiek
Gannondorf
other version of Link

Star Fox series
Fox
Falco
Wolf
*Krystal (if the series is deserving of four characters by SSB4, OR Falco or Wolf is cut)

Kirby Series
Kirby
Meta Knight
Dedede

Fire Emblem
Marth
Ike
*Main Lord of newest FE game

Pokemon
Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario (might be replaced by 5th gen rep)
Jigglypuff
*Mewtwo (counts as newcomer since he isn't in Brawl)
*5th gen rep

Earthbound
Ness
Lucas

F-Zero
Captain Falcon
*Samurai Goroh OR Black Shadow

Retro/Obscure
Ice Climbers
Game&Watch
Pit
ROB
Olimar
*Mach Rider

Third Party
Sonic
Snake
*Megaman


TOTAL = 46 characters, not counting transformations

Good list dude... what do you think of mine?

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

Good list dude... what do you think of mine?

I'd comment but I don't know what page it's on, lol.

 

[Shadow Huan]

I'd comment but I don't know what page it's on, lol.

The previous page... lol... I don't know why my list keeps getting looked over... bad posting timing maybe? And who's "Kamek?" Is that the wizard from SMW2?

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

The previous page... lol... I don't know why my list keeps getting looked over... bad posting timing maybe? And who's "Kamek?" Is that the wizard from SMW2?

Oh, I didn't know that was a roster thing, lol. Let's see:

Mewtwo - Heck yes!

Non-Clone Ganondorf - Heck Yes!

Midna/Wolf Link - Meh. But at least he wouldn't be a clone

Ridley - Yes * 9001

Geno - Indifferent

Mallow - I'd prefer Geno if anyone from SMRPG

Megaman - Definitley yes

King K.Rool - Heck yes

Dixie Kong - Mabey, but only after K.Rool

Kaptain K.Rool - as an alt costume for King K.Rool, sure.

Bowser Jr. - Heck yes!

Krystal - see my comment on my roster

 

[Shadow Huan]

Oh, I didn't know that was a roster thing, lol. Let's see:

Mewtwo - Heck yes!

Non-Clone Ganondorf - Heck Yes!

Midna/Wolf Link - Meh. But at least he wouldn't be a clone

Ridley - Yes * 9001

Geno - Indifferent

Mallow - I'd prefer Geno if anyone from SMRPG

Megaman - Definitley yes

King K.Rool - Heck yes

Dixie Kong - Mabey, but only after K.Rool

Kaptain K.Rool - as an alt costume for King K.Rool, sure.

Bowser Jr. - Heck yes!

Krystal - see my comment on my roster

Krystal should take the place of Wolf, though I've got nothing against him... I don't see Kaptian K. Rool working as an alt. costume because of the gun... maybe an AT? thanks for actually giving my list the time of day... any thoughts on the stages?

 

[Red Arremer]

Krystal should take the place of Wolf

HECK NO! Why do people insist on Wolf being replaced? He's the most uncloney clone next to Luigi!

Excuse me while I go break something. Like the guys at Rare who came up with that blue b**ch.

 

[Lord Viper]

Krystal should take the place of Wolf, though I've got nothing against him...

That would be a bad move. Wolf is Fox's rival and a been in MORE games than Krystal. Also you have to have a good reason why they should replace a character as well, though Mewtwo's excuse to be remove was horrible, lol.

 

[Red Arremer]

That would be a bad move. Wolf is Fox's rival and a been in MORE games than Krystal.

This isn't quite true. Wolf was in Star Fox 64 (though he was in the never released Star Fox 2, as well, but that doesn't really count), but not in Adventures. He returned in Assault and sticked since then. Krystal was in Adventures, but not in SF64. So it's evened out. Except you'd count SF2.

 

[Lord Viper]

I just now realize what I just said, lol.

Umm..... Christmas Kirby for SSB4 again. XP

 

[Jimnymebob]

I'll post my roster because I have a keyboard infront of me lol.

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr(unlock)

Yoshi
Kamek
Baby Mario an Baby Luigi(unlock)

Paper Mario with Pixls(unlock)
Dimentio(unlock)

Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong (unlock)
K. Rool

Wario(unlock)

Samus
ZSS
Space Pirate

Link
Zelda/ Shiek(unlock)
Ganondorf (remade)
Toon Link (remade)(unlock)

Fox
Falco(unlock)
Wolf
Leon(unlock)

Ness
Porky
Masked Man(unlock)

Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh

Pikachu
Jigglypuff(unlock)
New Pokemon from Gen 1-4(unlock)
5th Gen

Kirby
Metaknight(unlock)
King Dedede

Marth
New FE lord(unlock)
New FE villain


Olimar(unlock)

Ice Climbers
Pit
R.O.B(unlock)
Mr G&W(unlock)

Balloon Fighter
Lip(unlock)
Takamura
Donbe and Hikari(unlock)

Animal Crosser(unlock)

Ouendan(unlock-final character)


Sonic(unlock)
Megaman(unlock)
RoostTwo(unlock)

There you go. It's not good, but it'll do.