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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Kraryo

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SrirachaJoe
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Bring Dr. Mario back, because the Mario series is the most signifigant and they can afford to keep a total clone of Mario. Geno and Ridley would be neat. Have M2 return. Give Lucas more PK spells that Ness doesn't use in Smash.

Give Wolf's A moves and throws to Falco who isn't Fox's evil twin and have Krystal replace Wolf. Wolf, Shadow, and Dark Samus could be alternate costumes for Fox, Sonic, and Samus. They would have different taunts, voices, cheers, and name shown, so that they don't suffer identity crisis.

Clones and semi-clones could share the same slot as their counterparts.

Nerf Meta Knight, Falco, D3, Snake, Gaw, and Marth, but not too much. Remove chaingrabbing as well.

I do like what Spadefox suggested about secret characters, since Olimar would of been a lot better final unlockable for Brawl than Wolf, Toon Link, and Jigglypuff.
 

SmashBrosMike

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
573
Bring Dr. Mario back, because the Mario series is the most signifigant and they can afford to keep a total clone of Mario. Geno and Ridley would be neat. Have M2 return. Give Lucas more PK spells that Ness doesn't use in Smash.

Give Wolf's A moves and throws to Falco who isn't Fox's evil twin and have Krystal replace Wolf. Wolf, Shadow, and Dark Samus could be alternate costumes for Fox, Sonic, and Samus. They would have different taunts, voices, cheers, and name shown, so that they don't suffer identity crisis.

Clones and semi-clones could share the same slot as their counterparts.

Nerf Meta Knight, Falco, D3, Snake, Gaw, and Marth, but not too much. Remove chaingrabbing as well.

I do like what Spadefox suggested about secret characters, since Olimar would of been a lot better final unlockable for Brawl than Wolf, Toon Link, and Jigglypuff.
If Dr. Mario does return. He should be an alternate costume for Mario.
 

Ridley22

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
518
Location
...
Ridley...That is all.

And wow people have stopped saying brawl sucks, it's safe to come back now.
 

§leepy God

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
3,301
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On The Move....
Ridley...That is all.

And wow people have stopped saying brawl sucks, it's safe to come back now.
Ridley is awesome, since ROB got copies of himself whey don't Ridley? ^_^

And it's still Brawl haters but mostly at the Melee and Smash 64 boards, but it's worst since Brawl+ excist. -_-;
 

Roihu

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
541
Ridley is awesome, since ROB got copies of himself whey don't Ridley? ^_^

And it's still Brawl haters but mostly at the Melee and Smash 64 boards, but it's worst since Brawl+ excist. -_-;
exist*
We're like water and oil. Many of them think they're so much better because they saw Melee is more tactical and Brawl requires no skill. While it is true, they hate Brawl because it's not competitive, which is exactly what it wanted to accomplish.
Nerfing anyone but MK and maybe Snake would be a crime.
Except for maybe all chaingrabs.
 

Chris Lionheart

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Apr 6, 2008
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Make Your Move
Claydol




Mechanics

Levitate-
Claydol floats in the air roughly Pikachu's height above the stage, making him immune to low attacks. He is also unaffected by traction, making it very easy for him to turn and protecting him against tripping. His levitated state does make him rather susceptible to high attacks however. Claydol also has unlimited jumps, meaning he will always be in the air. His falling speed is very fast, however, keeping him from maintaining much height. Another interesting effect of this is that Claydol has no "ground" attacks. Rather all of his attacks are aerial. He has a Neutral A/Neutral Aerial, Dash Aerial, Tilt Aerials, and Smash Aerials. Naturally, he can also aerial grab. Another odd property of Claydol's levitation is that he cannot ledge grab or be knocked to the ground. In fact- the only time his body comes into contact with the ground is through the use of Claydol's Crouch and Dair.


Stats

Height- Somewhat Short
Not counting levitation, Claydol is about the same size as Mario.

Width- Average
Claydol is again roughly the size of Mario.

Weight- Heavy
Despite being rather small (4'11"), Claydol weighs 238.1 lbs, making him a real heavyweight. He also has a notably high defense stat. His weight in Smash would probably compare to Ike's.

"Walk" Speed- Slow
Claydol just floats around, not really trying to get anywhere quickly.

Dash Speed- Fast
Due to levitation, Claydol can move quite fast.

Jumps- Unlimited

First 5 Jumps- Medium
Claydol's first 5 jumps give him a great recovery and outweigh his huge falling speed.

All Additional Jumps- Mediocre
Each of Claydol's jumps after the fifth compares to Peach's second jump (what second jump). Basically, all they are good for is limited aerial stalling, as he falls very fast.

Falling Speed- Very Fast
Claydol's falling speed is so fast that it outweighs his unlimited jumps, making aerial camping impossible. Note that all attacks do provide an aerial stall however.

Traction- Unaffected
Claydol's Levitate ability renders him immune to tripping and allows him to move with ease on any surface.

Dodges- Average
Claydol isn't a particularly great dodger, more about confusing the opponent than direct defense.

Crouch- Yes, Great
Claydol's crouch does serve a useful purpose for him, as it allows him to bypass his own levitation ability, making him more susceptible to low attacks and less susceptible to high attacks.

Crawl- No

Wall Jump- No
Would it really make since for something that doesn't even touch surfaces to wall jump?

Glide- No
Again...

Animations

Standing Pose
Claydol isn't really a very interesting Pokemon in terms of stancing. It basically just floats there, not leaning in any direction.

Idle Pose
Claydol spins around a few times and randomly winks its many eyes.

"Walk" Pose
Claydol floats around, leaning in the direction he is going. His pace is slow and leasurely. The contended look in his eyes reflects blistful ignorance or innocence.

Dash Pose
Claydol starts floating faster, leaning forward a bit farther than his walk pose. He has sped up considerably, but he is still far from quick. His eyes reflects a more determined look, as they appear focused and perhaps even angry.

All Jumps
Claydol spins around several times, giving him some vertical lift and stalling him in the air for the duration. This is much like Peach's second jump in function.

Shield
Claydol surrounds itself with rocks all around. The rocks crack as more damage is dealt to the shield, eventually causing the rocks to split and break.

Sidestep
Claydol steps to the side, rapidly waving his arms around much like R.O.B. It tends to look pretty comical in Claydol's case. Average sidestep.

Roll
Claydol rolls much like Mewtwo, except being a bit slower.

Airdodge
Claydol moves to the side while opening one of it's beaks as if to say "Phew". It has a relieved look in it's eyes.


Specials

Neutral Special- Subsitute
This move is by far the most important part of Claydol's game in Smash. Claydol takes 25% damage and creates an exact copy of himself that has 25% stamina. This has low lag on both ends. When a Substitute has been created, the player is able to control both Claydol and his Substitute to a limited extent. The main one is completely controllable, working like normal (except without use of the C-Stick or Motion Control Smashing). The secondary one is controlled with the C-Stick or with Motion controls and is unable to perform most moves. The secondary one does not have to be the Substitute (and the main does not have to be the original). By pressing Neutral Special when a Substitute is already created, the controls are switched, allowing the player to have full control of the other one. Switching between playing as the original and the fake is a lagless action. This is very useful, as it can be used to mindgame foes and perform normally dangerous attacks, such as Self Destruct, without harming the original. Mastery of Substitute is almost synonimous with mastery of Claydol- that is, you must master the Substitute to properly play Claydol on a competitive level.

Side Special- Reflect/Light Screen
The currently controlled Claydol's eyes shine bright purple/pink and a thin wall of light roughly as tall as a human character (like Marth) appears in front of it. If the currently controlled Claydol was the original, this move is Reflect. If the currently controlled Claydol was a substitute, this move is Light Screen. What do these walls of light do? Reflect causes all A attacks launched at the wall to be nullified. Light Screen causes all B attacks (specials) launched at the wall to be nullified. The walls oddly have physical properties- they can be used to wall cling and wall jump (though not by Claydol). If an attack that the walls do not protect against hit them, they vanish. They also allow certain attacks and grabs to infinite against them (so definitely don't use this move against King Dedede.) This move has very low lag on both ends. While you can have several light walls up, each one disappears after 5 seconds.

Up Special- Teleport
When used without a Substitute, this move functions exactly like Mewtwo's Up Special. When used with a Substitute, this move will cause the original and the Substitute to disappear like in Mewtwo's Up Special and trade places when they reappear. When the latter effect is used as a recovery, the original can be saved from falling to its death at the cost of dooming his substitute (and thereby "wasting" 25% of his health). Both options produce only the same lag and duration as Mewtwo's Up Special. Aside from being used as a recovery, this can also be used to mindgame foe's into getting the two Claydol's confused.

Down Special (Away From Steven)- Self Destruct
The currently controlled Claydol self destructs, causing itself to be destroyed and creating a huge explosion, roughly the size of a Smart Bomb explosion. This explosion deals high upwards knockback (KO'ing Mario at roughly 75%) and 30% damage to all (friend or foe) who are struck by it. This move has low beginning lag (and of course there is nothing left to suffer ending lag). During this low ending lag, the exploding Claydol will flash red and release steam briefly. While the cost of this move could be high (as it could cause the original to be destroyed), having a Substitute destroy itself with this move is a great way to minimize the move's cost.

Down Special (In Front of Steven)- Switch
Claydol is called back into his Pokeball and a menu is brought up, allowing the player to choose the Pokemon that Steven summons. There is only a short amount of time to choose. There is no lag on either end. There are invinceability frames throughout. Only one switch can be performed every 20 seconds.


Normal Aerials

Neutral Aerial- Cosmic Power
Claydol's eyes glow pink as he fires two pink crescent moons forwards that zigzag as they travel roughly half the distance of Final Destination, even traveling through people, objects, and the stage. One crescent moon will be above and one will be below Claydol's height when he initiated this move, with the center area only being touched when the crescents zigzag inwards. The crescents travel at a fairly fast speed (just a bit slower than one of Pit's arrows). When the crescents strike anything, they release a burst of little stars that have a circumference of a bob omb explosion. All struck foes take 3% damage and low upwards knockback. This move has low beginning lag and some slight ending lag. No hitstun. The crescents have literally no priority at all- attacks and projectiles will go right through them, leaving the crescents unaffected. This makes attacks worthless for defending against the crescents.

Dash Aerial- Rapid Spin
Claydol seems to fall flat, as if he were a top that just stopped spinning, his "head" facing the screen and his feet facing the background. He begins rapidly spinning, his faces + eyes becoming a nice visual effect. While spinning, Claydol orbits his original location, never actually re-entering this spot until the move ends. He orbits roughly 3/4 of a Battlefield platform's width away from the original spot. Foes struck by Claydol take 4% damage and are bounced away as if they had run into a Bouncer item, though the power of this knockback is only 3/4 of the Bouncer. This move has fairly low lag on both ends and a duration of roughly 1 1/4 seconds. Great priority. No hitstun.


Tilt Aerials

Side Tilt Aerial- Zen Headbutt
Claydol tilts backwards very briefly and then slams its head(?) forwards. This move's only hitbox is Claydol's head. Struck foes take 8% and medium knockback (kills Mario at roughly 150%). This attack has low beginning lag and medium ending lag. Medium priority. No hitstun. An interesting property of this move is that, even if it misses, foes within Bowser's width in front of Claydol will flinch- the priority of this flinch auto-exceeding the priority of any move they are using. This naturally gives this move some use as a gimping and defensive tool.

Up Tilt Aerial- Rock Slide
Claydol's eyes glow brightly as several rocks are raised over its head, remain there briefly, and then suddenly slide diagonally downwards in the direction Claydol is facing. The hitbox of this move is a diagonal line starting roughly Claydol's height above Claydol and ending roughly Claydol's width in tront of Claydol. Struck foes take 6% and good forwards knockback (KOs Mario at roughly 110%). This move has medium beginning lag and low ending lag. This move has great priority, serving as a nice defensive wall. No hitstun.

Down Tilt Aerial- Stealth Rock
Claydol spins around one time and sends out a swarm of very small (and hard to see) but pointy rocks below him. They travel at a swift speed, covering their maximum distance of a Battlefield Platform under Claydol in about 1/10th of a second. Foes struck by the Stealth Rock flinch, but then realize that no harm has been dealt to them. Little does the foe know that they are covered in the tiny shards. When the foe attempts to shield, they take 2% damage per second that they do so. The stealth rocks disappear after 3 seconds. Using this move on the foe again while they are already under the effect of Stealth Rock simply renews the duration. This move has low beginning lag and no ending lag. The stealth rocks have no physical presense as far as priority is concerned, thus all attacks and projectiles will go right through them. Note that this move will also strike foes that are shielding, as the attack goes through shields- but the stones do no shield damage. This move can be fired while crouching. When this happens, the Stealth Rocks will be fired forwards.


Smash Aerials

Side Smash Aerial- Psybeam
Claydol's eyes glow bright pink as he slams his head forward a bit and fires a bright pinkish purple beam of light with properties much like R.O.B.'s laser (minus the recharge time and the ability to aim). Struck foes take 10% damage and good horizontal knockback (KOs Mario at roughly 100%). In addition to this, the struck foe(s) are confused, reversing their controls for 1...4 seconds (+1 second for each second of charging, with a max charge of 3 seconds). While the foe is confused, they will imagine little cartoonish birds flying around their heads. This move has fairly high beginning lag and fairly low ending lag. No hitstun.

Up Smash Aerial- Sandstorm
A huge sandstorm is whipped up around Claydol. Use the control stick to have a limited control over where the wind blows (it will have a natural upwards arc). Claydol will become visible at the ending location of the storm, which would be roughly 3 of Claydol's heights above him at max duration. This move can be ended at any time by releasing the "charge" (releasing A) and it will reach max duration after about 2 seconds. Foes who are struck by the Sandstorm will take repeated hits of 1% damage (5 hits per second on average), though the hits are easy to DI away from. Claydol will be rapidly spinning when he becomes visible, striking foes at that location for 12% and good forwards knockback. This move has fairly low lag on both ends. Great priority. No hitstun on any hits.

Down Smash Aerial- Earthquake
Claydol starts rapidly spinning like a drill (a slight stall) and suddenly falls downwards very very fast. When/if Claydol hits the ground, it releases 1...4 large shockwaves that spread out the full length of the surface it is on. Struck foes will trip and take 5....20% damage (based on how close they are to the epicenter of the Earthquake, or Claydol). This move has medium lag on both ends and a short duration. No hitstun. Note that the hitbox of this move is only the ground, so foes who are not making contact with the ground will be unaffected. Also note that only (up to) two shockwaves are capable of hitting foes due to invinceability frames that appear while the foe trips (example- if the max number of shockwaves is used and the foe is struck by the first, they may be struck by the third, but not the second or fourth). This aerial can cause Claydol to suicide if used incorrectly.


Grabs/Throws

Grab- Power Trick
Claydol lifts the foe with psycic energy, much like with Mewtwo's Side Special in melee. Unlike that move however, the foe stays trapped in Claydol's grab. Claydol is able to freely move, jump, fall, etc. and the foe will be dragged with him. This only has 1.25x the average grab duration, so it can be difficult to escape. The reach and lag for this grab is basically identical to that of Mewtwo's Side Special. This move is named Power Trick because, unlike Claydol's other moves, the power and speed of his moves are basically swapped- his throws are slow but powerful, making them Claydol's best killing options other than Self-Destruct. Another odd property of Claydol's grab is that foes are capable of attacking Claydol while grabbed. Note that you must hold Z to keep the foe trapped. Releasing Z will cause Claydol to use the throw that corresponds to the direction the control stick is currently pressed in. This grab can be used at any elevation.

Pummel- Confusion
Claydol's grab attack can be described in two words- grab counter. That's right, if the grabbed foe attempts to attack Claydol, Claydol can use his grab attack to cause the foe to be confused and attack themselves instead!
Quit hitting yourself!
The foe will suffer all of the damage from their attack but no knockback. This allows Claydol to hit them with a throw. No lag at all. The animation for this move involves Claydol's eyes releasing a blinding pink light. The foe must actually be in the process of performing an attack for this to be successful. This grab attack is made even more unique in that it can be performed while throwing!

Neutral/Forward Throw- Psycic
It is only fitting that a psycic pokemon should have Psycic right? Claydol's eyes glow brightly and a pink psycic aura radiates from the grabbed foe. One second later, they are shot forwards for 10% and great forwards knockback (that KOs Mario at 80%). This throw has some slight beginning lag (not counting the 1 second duration) and a little ending lag. Claydol's best throw for KO'ing.

Back Throw- Rock Smash
Claydol causes the foe to be flipped into the air and throw just behind Claydol. The foe is slammed into the ground, breaking rocks with their body. This is naturally very painful for the foe, as they take 16% damage. This throw is completely incapable of chaining, as the foe has invinceabililty frames until they regain the ability to react. This throw has no lag on either end, but a duration of roughly 3/4 of a second. This throw is quite useful for its spiking potential.

Up Throw- Stone Edge
A sharp stone that looks like a sword appears below the grabbed foe. It slices upwards, dealing 11% and good upwards knockback to them (KO's Mario at 110%). With only a small amount of lag on either end and a duration of 1/2 of a second, this is Claydol's fastest and weakest throw.

Down Throw- Rock Tomb
Rocks appear and trap both Claydol and the grabbed foe become in a pyramid shaped clump of rocks. This causes them to rapidly plummet. There can only be two outcomes- either they are both dropped to their dooms, resulting in Clayside, or they hit the stage, causing the grabbed foe to be dealt 13% and good upwards knockback (KO's Mario at 105%). This move has medium beginning lag and a variable duration that (of course) depends on distance from the stage/death.


Final Smash- Ancient Power

In Pokemon, Ancient Power is a move that may raise all stats. This carries over to Smash as Claydol's Final Smash. For 30 seconds, or until Claydol loses a stock (whichever comes first), all of Claydol's stats are buffed. 3 damage is added to all attacks and +25% is added to Claydol's movement speeds, weight, and dealt knockback. In addition to this, Claydol's moves now have 25% less lag.


Taunts:

Up Taunt-
Claydol spins like a top briefly and then becomes cartoonishly dizzy.

Side Taunt-
Claydol lifts small rocks above its head and starts juggling them with psycic energy.

Down Taunt-
The original Claydol controls the substitute Claydol to breakdance using psycic energy. This can be used if you forget which Claydol is the original. If used with no Substitute, Claydol will simply sigh.


Pros

Heavyweight.
Usually unhittable by low attacks.
Great recovery.
Unlimited jumps.
Can grab at any elevation.
Can rack up damage fairly well.
Many fast moves.
Grabs are good for KO'ing.
Unaffected by traction.
Substitute is very useful when used properly.
Can be great at mindgames with Neutral and Up Specials.
Defensively effective thanks to Neutral, Side, and Up Specials.
Good Final Smash.
Can switch to Skarmory, Aggron, Metagross, Armaldo, or Cradily.


Cons

High learning curve.
Very fast faller.
Especially susceptible to high attacks, aerials, and comboes.
Reliant on throws and self destruct to KO.
Cannot grab the edge.
Substitute damages Claydol for 20%, so it is harmful when not used to its fullest.
Throws are slow.
Lacks the ability to chain grab.
Can be attacked by grabbed foes.


Playstyle

Claydol is a very interesting character to play as- and, against a master, Claydol can be an interesting opponent. One of the best, if not the best, damage rackers on Steven's team, thanks to his quick A attacks that can be used at any elevation. Claydol is equipped with a variety of defensive and offensive options.

Let's start with the most critical part of Claydol's game- mindgames. Claydol is exceptional at mindgaming foes thanks to his Neutral Special, which summons a fake Claydol. The player is able to switch between full control of the original and full control of the fake, with the other having only partial controlability. This is the ability that makes or breaks a Claydol player. The key to using this is being unpredictable. You do not want to build habits with this, because the foe may figure you out. The entire goal of the mindgame is to keep the foe from learning which Claydol is the real one and which is the fake. This can be accomplished through frequent switching of primary control between the original and the fake and through use of Teleport, which causes the Claydol's to switch places- especially confusing when they were already adjacent. Just be careful not to mindgame yourself. The last thing you want is to self-destruct the original Claydol!

Now we move on to damage racking. Claydol is equipped with a number of quick moves. The most effective attacks for damage racking are Neutral A (a reliable projectile), Side Tilt, and Dash Attack. Neutral A is great for its quickness and projectile reach. Don't hesistate to spam it when necessary. Side Tilt is excellent for melee damage, as well as interrupting attacks with a high-priority flinch. Dash Attack is mainly for its great circumferential reach and defensive abilities, though as a dash attack, it can be predictable. None of Claydol's moves are particularly bad for damage racking, but they don't normally combo well. Down Tilt compliments all other forms of damage racking, as it punishes foes with some damage when they use their shield, as well as having the ability to flinch shielded opponents.

Claydol doesn't have a whole lot of KO'ing options. He is basically limited to Self-Destructing and his throws (fortunately, he can even grab and throw foes in midair). Both options have their downsides. Self-Destructing comes at one of two costs- the health that your Substitute currently has or an entire stock (depending on if you self-destruct the original or the copy). It is, however, a very powerful move with a great hitbox and quick activation... it shouldn't be a move that you will be using often, so it can be hard to see coming. As for your throws, they are slow but powerful- the most risky and powerful of all usually being the Forward Throw. Claydol does possess the ability to spike with his Back Throw and the ability to Clayside foes with the Down Throw.

Finally we arrive at defense. Claydol has a lot of defensive options- most of which are the spawn of his mindgames (so I will not bother restating much of that information). On top of his mindgames, Claydol also possesses a side special which can produce a wall of light that protects against normal attacks (original) or special attacks (copy). These walls are incredibly useful when used at the proper time (or against the proper attacks). They can be used to counter projectile spam or even prevent a powerful attack or combo from happening.

Claydol does have other tactics at his disposal as well:
The player can switch primary control even while performing attacks or keeping a foe grabbed. For example, if the player simply holds Z and switches primary control with Neutral B, the Claydol that is not grabbing the foe can be made to attack the grabbed foe. This can be immensely useful, but Claydol is still incapable of chain grabbing foes.

Opponents of Claydol must keep calm and wary at all times (or atleast while Claydol has a Substitute on the field). Your eyes must discern the original from the copy. If you remove Claydol's ability to confuse you, Claydol becomes nearly useless.

Allies that Claydol players should consider are:
King Dedede- Benefits heavily from the ability to chain throw against light walls.
Another Claydol- With 2 originals and 2 copies, the mindgame potential is doubled!
Power Characters- Any character that can KO foes for Claydol.

Opponents Should Consider Using:
King Dedede- Claydol can be chained against light screens that are used on the ground.

Counter Stages:
Claydol performs badly on scrolling stages, as controlling both an original and a substitute Claydol can be difficult to impossible.
 

Big-Cat

Challenge accepted.
Joined
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I like how Marth looks more like a guy in the original games.
 

Jimnymebob

Smash Champion
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Sep 26, 2008
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Jimnymebob
Right! Sure, of course. Let's give the moveset of Wolf, who uses claws and the like, to Falco, who has them too. Oh, wait. Crud. Falco uses no claw weapon. ****it.
They shouldn't put Krystal in, but they should give Wolf her staff. I would probably not stop laughing if they did that for about a week.
Imagine the faces of the people who think Wolf is a clone and the fans of Krystal:bee:.
 

Kraryo

Smash Journeyman
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Right! Sure, of course. Let's give the moveset of Wolf, who uses claws and the like, to Falco, who has them too. Oh, wait. Crud. Falco uses no claw weapon. ****it.
The claw parts of Gray Fox's (the one from SF, not the one from MGS) attacks are just special effects, so it wouldn't be too hard to give Falco attacks that are just like Gray Fox's without the claw effects.
 

Red Arremer

Smash Legend
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Nov 27, 2005
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The claw parts of Gray Fox's (the one from SF, not the one from MGS) attacks are just special effects, so it wouldn't be too hard to give Falco attacks that are just like Gray Fox's without the claw effects.
Ugh. How I hate talking to hateboys. LOOK AT WOLF. He has a feral stance. He uses his claws to attack. He generally is a brute.
Now look at Falco. He's slim. He has no real hands but feathers. Having him using Wolf's moveset just would be ODD.

Seriously. I'm all okay with you wh0ring over that blue furry boobwobbler, but stop that Wolf hating, he's one of the few Star Fox characters to have an actual personality.
Star Fox didn't need 2 reps in Melee, not 3 reps in Brawl. Star Fox doesn't need 4 reps at all. And Wolf has to stay.
 

Jimnymebob

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Jimnymebob
The claw parts of Gray Fox's (the one from SF, not the one from MGS) attacks are just special effects, so it wouldn't be too hard to give Falco attacks that are just like Gray Fox's without the claw effects.
Who is Gray Fox?
 

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
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Springfield, MA
Man... I get so far behind on these posts. the curse of not having a home computer I guess...

HECK NO! Why do people insist on Wolf being replaced? He's the most uncloney clone next to Luigi!

Excuse me while I go break something. Like the guys at Rare who came up with that blue b**ch.
Spadefox, I said I had nothing against Wolf, I just think a character with a staff for an original moveset is more deserving. Aside from the Landmaster, I actually don't even consider him a clone... but I like Falco better. A female rep. from Star Fox couldn't hurt... right? Besides, by the time SSB4 comes out, maybe the SF series will have made a comeback and be deserving of 4 reps...

Also you have to have a good reason why they should replace a character as well, though Mewtwo's excuse to be remove was horrible, lol.

So what? Kirby was horrible in Melee, ranked below Mewtwo, and he got beefed up for Brawl. As Spadefox has said, Mewtwo was the last to be cut, and was done so because of time constranits. It had nothing to do with him being "horrible" .


I doubt Mewtwo will return, and I doubt PT and Lucario will return. I think they'll have an existing Pokemon (1-4th gen that's not been playable before), and a 5th gen.
Mewtwo will be back, judging by all of the pro-Mewtwo threads that are out there, not only here, but everywhere. Petitions are being signed. Calls are being made... ect...
 

Hyper_Ridley

Smash Champion
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Dec 21, 2007
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I said I had nothing against Wolf, I just think a character with a staff for an original moveset is more deserving. Aside from the Landmaster, I actually don't even consider him a clone... but I like Falco better. A female rep. from Star Fox couldn't hurt... right? Besides, by the time SSB4 comes out, maybe the SF series will have made a comeback and be deserving of 4 reps...
First, thank you for not being one of the ignorant ones who call Wolf a clone becuase of one move.

Having said that, I would like to say that after seeing Krystal's only trophy be her assault outfit, I actually doubt that she would use the staff in brawl. She would probably use high-tech weaponry from the Star Fox team, and you know what that means... Now, if she was guarenteed 100% to use her staff, I might change my mind, but at the moment, I'll take my favorite Star Fox character whose not even that similar to another characte who might not even be any better off.


Oh, and I think I'll warn you now, don't ever suggest Krystal to Spadefox. That's like walking into a lion's den covered in food and poking it with a stick. YOU GONNA DIE!
 

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
2,224
Location
Springfield, MA
First, thank you for not being one of the ignorant ones who call Wolf a clone becuase of one move.
That's like people calling Lucario Mewtwo's clone because of the Aura sphere... soo... cause Samus has a charge shot, does that mean that Lucario's also a clone of Samus? Or that Mewtwo was a clone of Samus in Melee?:laugh:

Having said that, I would like to say that after seeing Krystal's only trophy be her assault outfit, I actually doubt that she would use the staff in brawl. She would probably use high-tech weaponry from the Star Fox team, and you know what that means... Now, if she was guarenteed 100% to use her staff, I might change my mind, but at the moment, I'll take my favorite Star Fox character whose not even that similar to another characte who might not even be any better off.
I absolutly agree. It's with the staff, or not at all. If they're thinking of doing something like that, then leave her where she is, and keep Wolf one way or the other... but give him a unique FS!


Oh, and I think I'll warn you now, don't ever suggest Krystal to Spadefox. That's like walking into a lion's den covered in food and poking it with a stick. YOU GONNA DIE!
Dispite all of Spadefox's mighty arguments, I do not fear him whatsoever. I'm entitled to my opinion, he's entitled to his. I'm not going to get into a squabble over SF characters, esp. when I consider their games to be MEH. I don't care for flight simulating games, which is why I liked Adventures... it reminded me of OOT, just dumber... and not as awesome...:chuckle:


*cough* I'm here now. He has no need to worry. *readies whip*
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: *readies whip*? can I weild the chair?:laugh:
 

Lord Viper

SS Rank
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Detroit/MI
NNID
LordViper
3DS FC
2363-5881-2519
So what? Kirby was horrible in Melee, ranked below Mewtwo, and he got beefed up for Brawl. As Spadefox has said, Mewtwo was the last to be cut, and was done so because of time constranits. It had nothing to do with him being "horrible" .
I ment the reason he got remove wasn't a good excuse for him to be remove. You should already know why Kirby shouldn't be remove, (I hope).

 

Jimnymebob

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
2,020
NNID
Jimnymebob
Mewtwo doesn't need to come back imo.
I mean , I'd like him to come back, but there are a lot more Pokemon now than there was when Melee was released, and there'll probably be another 100+ by the time SSB4 is released, so I don't think he needs to come back, as other important Pokemon could replace him.
 

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
2,224
Location
Springfield, MA
Mewtwo doesn't need to come back imo.
I mean , I'd like him to come back, but there are a lot more Pokemon now than there was when Melee was released, and there'll probably be another 100+ by the time SSB4 is released, so I don't think he needs to come back, as other important Pokemon could replace him.
I really don't think so. the original uber-tier will return. Mark my words... Mewtwo is still far from unimportant, and the same could be said for "old" Pokemon *coughCHARZIARDcough*



I ment the reason he got remove wasn't a good excuse for him to be remove. You should already know why Kirby shouldn't be remove, (I hope).

Time constraints was the reason he was removed. If he was removed for being "horrible", then I'd agree with you completly. And no, I highly doubt Kirby is going anywhere.
 

Jimnymebob

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
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NNID
Jimnymebob
There are probably over 400 Pokemon now. The pokemon seen in SSB aren't the only Pokemon equal to/more important than Mewtwo. A lot of other Pokemon are more important.
Why is he so important nowadays? His game came out over 10 years ago, and the main factor of his popularity was the fact that he was the Final Pokemon, and the highest level wild Pokemon.
The starters are more important to the series than Mewtwo, as are Pikachu, Jiglypuff, and Meowth. If Mewtwo deserves to come back, then Meowth should definitely be in; and I think that Meowth's chances are even slimmer than they were before Brawls release.
What about Eevee and it's evolutions, Mew, and Deoxys? These are also very popular, and many people wanted to see Deoxys as a playable character.
 

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
2,224
Location
Springfield, MA
There are probably over 400 Pokemon now. The pokemon seen in SSB aren't the only Pokemon equal to/more important than Mewtwo. A lot of other Pokemon are more important.
Why is he so important nowadays? His game came out over 10 years ago, and the main factor of his popularity was the fact that he was the Final Pokemon, and the highest level wild Pokemon.
The starters are more important to the series than Mewtwo, as are Pikachu, Jiglypuff, and Meowth. If Mewtwo deserves to come back, then Meowth should definitely be in; and I think that Meowth's chances are even slimmer than they were before Brawls release.
What about Eevee and it's evolutions, Mew, and Deoxys? These are also very popular, and many people wanted to see Deoxys as a playable character.
I see your argument, and I raise you. :laugh:

I will admit that you have several good points, many of which I can't adress directly, as I hated the playstyle of the Pokemon games. The only Pokemon I'll admit to being important to the series are Pikachu and Meowth. Jigglypuff is only still really popular in Japan, though that's still a point for you I guess... Deoxys would be very cool, but it isn't as popular as Mewtwo. And I'm glad to meet someone else that thinks Mew should be a PC... I've thought that since SSB64. In the popularity race though, Mewtwo is still in the top five, and is the most recognizable next to Pikachu. Wikipedia.org has some interesting info regaurding this... I'll post the link... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mewtwo
 

Chileno4Live

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Almere, The Netherlands
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Mewtwo was an awesome character and his hypnosis move was really kewl. I describe him as an awesome character though he isn't a lucario clone. I find lucario lots crapier.
 

Hyper_Ridley

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,294
Location
Hippo Island
In the popularity race though, Mewtwo is still in the top five, and is the most recognizable next to Pikachu. Wikipedia.org has some interesting info regaurding this... I'll post the link... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mewtwo
That makes me wonder, how is Lucario doing popularity-wise? Because he was obviously put into this game as the "cool" popular mascot of the 4th gen games but he might not even be that recognizable anyways outside of Brawl.
 

DekuBoy

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Messages
1,532
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Very scary ruins
Wanna hear my opinion? Keep Pikachu, Jiggs, PT, and Mewtwo. Add I dunno, Dawn who uses Gardevoir, Lucario and maybe Pichu or another 2nd gen Pokemon.

PT really screwed up the normal character balance. Before we had, hero, sidekick, villain, now it's No. 1 mascot, old popular character, hero and aura weasel. What is going on?
 

SmashBrosMike

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
573
I was going to say RoostTwo because I want to milk him for all that he is worth.
I then realised he was a rooster... :laugh:

I doubt Mewtwo will return, and I doubt PT and Lucario will return. I think they'll have an existing Pokemon (1-4th gen that's not been playable before), and a 5th gen.
Whoa hold the phone dude. Do you know how many Mewtwo Fans went riot and raged when he was left out. I can imagine that there were lots of that.

But I don't mind if Mewtwo returns, but he was cool.
 

DekuBoy

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Messages
1,532
Location
Very scary ruins
Imagine this one sec: they add Pichu like ZSS.

Pikachu's final smash is greatly buffed, but when it's over a text box saying: WILD PIKACHU FAINTED! appears. Then another saying: A WILD PICHU HAS APPEARED! comes on and Pichu returns. After Pichu uses his final smash it shows the evolving stuff. Any opinions?
 

Xenomorph_1992

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
40
Location
Planet LV-426
Imagine this one sec: they add Pichu like ZSS.

Pikachu's final smash is greatly buffed, but when it's over a text box saying: WILD PIKACHU FAINTED! appears. Then another saying: A WILD PICHU HAS APPEARED! comes on and Pichu returns. After Pichu uses his final smash it shows the evolving stuff. Any opinions?
It makes some sense since volt tackle does hurt pikachu in the games when it is used. Oh yeah...Sakurai does not pay attention to games except Kirby so it would never happen.
 

karthik_king

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
779
Location
Falcon PAWNCH
Bold for costume alt
# for reworked move set


Mario:
1. Mario
2. Luigi #
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Bowser Jr/Shadow Mario
6. Paper Mario

Legend of Zelda:
7. Link
8. Zelda/Sheik
9. Ganondorf #
10. Toon Link #
11. Vaati

Pokemon:
12. Pikachu
13. Jigglypuff
14. Pokemon Trainer (Totodile, Grovyle, Charizard)
15. Mewtwo
16. Lucario
17. Popular Pokemon from the 5th gen(+ a 6th gen if there is one)

Donkey Kong:
18. Donkey Kong
19. Diddy Kong
20. King K. Rool

WarioWare:
21. Wario

Yoshi:
22. Yoshi

Fire Emblem:
23. Marth
24. Ike
25. Micaiah

Kirby:
26. Kirby
27. Meta-Knight
28. King Dedede

Starfox:
29. Fox
30. Falco#
31. Wolf #
32. Krystal

Metroid:
33. Samus/ZSS
34. Ridley

Mother/Earthbound:
35. Ness
36. Lucas#

F-Zero:
37. Captain Falcon
38. Samurai Goroh

Pikmin:
39. Captain Olimar

Gyromite:
40. R.O.B

Kid Icarus:
41. Pit

Game and Watch:
42. Mr.Game and Watch

Ice Climber:
43. Ice Climbers

Golden Sun:
44. Isaac

Custom Robo:
45. Ray MK(whatever the most recent number is in his series)

Animal Crossing:
46. Villager

Untitled Future Nintendo Series:
47. Unnamed future Nintendo character who holds a main character spot

Sonic The Hedgehog:
48. Sonic
49. Tails
50. Knuckles

Metal Gear Solid:
51. Solid Snake

Megaman:
52. Megaman X


New Pokeball Pokemon
Giratina-Origin
Arceus
Darkrai
Shaymin and Skymin
Rotom-all forms
Dialga
Palkia
Mespirit
Uxie
Azelf
All regis
Raikou
All birds
Heatran
Cresselia
Manaphy
Gallade
+ 10 new pokemon that we do not know

New AT's
Paula-EarthBound
Geno
Agahnim-LoZ
Garet-Golden Sun
Tricky-Starfox
Toad

Bosses
Giygas-EarthBound
Aquamentas-LoZ
Petey Pirahna
Ridley
Both Hands
New Pokemon
Nergal-fire emblem
Egg Emperor- Sonic Heroes(The last great Sonic game)
Marx(Final Boss)


Past Stages:
SSB:
1.Saffron City
2.Sector Z
3.Hyrule Castle
4.Dream Land

SSBM:
5.Peaches Castle
6.Hyrule Temple
7.Big Blue
8.Brinstar Depths
9.Fourside
10.Fountain of Dreams

SSBB:
11.Mushroomy Kingdom
12.Pirate Ship
13.Yoshi’s Island
14.Norfair
15.Battleship Halberd
16.Lylat Cruise
17.Spear Pillar
18.Port Town Aero Dive
19.Castle Siege
20.Distant Planet
21.Smashville
22.New Pork City
23.Skyworld
24.75m
25.Delfino Plaza
26.PictoChat
27.WarioWare
28.Hanenbow
29.Shadow Moses Island
30.Green Hill Zone




Costume Alts

Mario---------->Dr. Mario
Mewtwo--------->Metal costume Mewtwo
Sonic----------->Shadow-------------->Metal Sonic----------------->Werewolf Sonic
Luigi------------>Mr.L
Wario----------->Warioware outfit
Toon Link-------> Young Link
Pokemon Trainer---------->Female Pokemon Trainer
Donkey Kong---------------> Funky Kong
King K Rool------------------>Captain K Rool
 

SmashBrosMike

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
573
Bold for costume alt
# for reworked move set


Mario:
1. Mario
2. Luigi #
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Bowser Jr/Shadow Mario
6. Paper Mario

Legend of Zelda:
7. Link
8. Zelda/Sheik
9. Ganondorf
10. Toon Link #
11. Vaati

Pokemon:
12. Pikachu
13. Jigglypuff
14. Pokemon Trainer (Totodile, Grovyle, Charizard)
15. Mewtwo
16. Lucario
17. Popular Pokemon from the 5th gen(+ a 6th gen if there is one)

Donkey Kong:
18. Donkey Kong
19. Diddy Kong
20. King K. Rool

WarioWare:
21. Wario

Yoshi:
22. Yoshi

Fire Emblem:
23. Marth
24. Ike
25. Micaiah

Kirby:
26. Kirby
27. Meta-Knight
28. King Dedede

Starfox:
29. Fox
30. Falco#
31. Wolf #
32. Krystal

Metroid:
33. Samus/ZSS
34. Ridley

Mother/Earthbound:
35. Ness
36. Lucas

F-Zero:
37. Captain Falcon with blood falcon alt
38. Samurai Goroh

Pikmin:
39. Captain Olimar

Gyromite:
40. R.O.B

Kid Icarus:
41. Pit

Game and Watch:
42. Mr.Game and Watch

Ice Climber:
43. Ice Climbers

Golden Sun:
44. Isaac

Custom Robo:
45. Ray MK(whatever the most recent number is in his series)

Animal Crossing:
46. Villager

Untitled Future Nintendo Series:
47. Unnamed future Nintendo character who holds a main character spot

Sonic The Hedgehog:
48. Sonic
49. Tails
50. Knuckles

Metal Gear Solid:
51. Solid Snake

Megaman:
52. Megaman X


New Pokeball Pokemon
Giratina-Origin
Arceus
Darkrai
Shaymin and Skymin
Rotom-all forms
Dialga
Palkia
Mespirit
Uxie
Azelf
All regis
Raikou
All birds
Heatran
Cresselia
Manaphy
Gallade
+ 10 new pokemon that we do not know

New AT's
Paula-EarthBound
Geno
Agahnim-LoZ
Garet-Golden Sun
Tricky-Starfox
Toad

Bosses
Giygas-EarthBound
Aquamentas-LoZ
Petey Pirahna
Ridley
Both Hands
New Pokemon
Nergal-fire emblem
Egg Emperor- Sonic Heroes(The last great Sonic game)
Marx(Final Boss)


Past Stages:
SSB:
1.Saffron City
2.Sector Z
3.Hyrule Castle
4.Dream Land

SSBM:
5.Peaches Castle
6.Hyrule Temple
7.Big Blue
8.Brinstar Depths
9.Fourside
10.Fountain of Dreams

SSBB:
11.Mushroomy Kingdom
12.Pirate Ship
13.Yoshi’s Island
14.Norfair
15.Battleship Halberd
16.Lylat Cruise
17.Spear Pillar
18.Port Town Aero Dive
19.Castle Siege
20.Distant Planet
21.Smashville
22.New Pork City
23.Skyworld
24.75m
25.Delfino Plaza
26.PictoChat
27.WarioWare
28.Hanenbow
29.Shadow Moses Island
30.Green Hill Zone




Costume Alts

Mario---------->Dr. Mario
Mewtwo--------->Metal costume Mewtwo
Sonic----------->Shadow-------------->Metal Sonic----------------->Werewolf Sonic
Nice roster, but since when is there well a Werewolf Sonic?
 
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