[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[SkylerOcon]

But what makes him so 3rd party contender-ish?

That's very easy.

1) Castlevania games have always been on Nintendo consoles. Even the monstrosity that was the series N64 incarnation

2) Popularity. While Simon Belmont does have a very Geno-esque fanbase, you can still find a few random people on the street that ARE NOT in front of a GameStop that knows who hs is.

3) Original moveset. Believe it or not, Sakurai values that.

Three reasons.

 

[flyinfilipino]

You must know how much complaining there was for Mewtwo when he got cut. Multiply that by 10 and you'd get the reaction for either Sonic or Snake being cut. While they are by no means assured, I think its certain that if a SSB4 was planned, Nintendo would contact Sega and Konami to see if the two guest characters would return. Plus, outside of MM, there's no one who really stands in the same leauge as those two. (Maybe Snake not so much, but Sonic for sure)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *lol*, I didn't mean Sonic or Snake would get cut. I just meant that the novelty of them being third-party characters in a Nintendo fighting game would wear off after a while. Besides, I think they were implemented into Smash pretty well (outside of, you know, Snake's broken-ness and Sonic's not-so-broken-ness), and it shows that having more third-parties wouldn't be a bad thing (note that I didn't say how many).

EDIT - Skyler: Almost all characters can have an 'original moveset' if you think hard enough. However, I played some of Castlevania NES last night, and wow! moveset potential.

 

[HokusPokus]

My personal oppinion is that they add more Sonic Character's Such as Tail's Knuckles and Shadow not as a assist trophy.
And It would be interesting if they added megaman.
This is just my personal opinion

 

[flyinfilipino]

I think Sonic might get at least one more character as well (preferably Tails).

 

[Roihu]

I'm sure they won't make another smash for a couple of years...
They can make up a few crappy new Nintendo series by then, can't they? Then all the 3rd part choices will be void and I shall laugh out of spite of some of the characters wanted that don't stand a chance, even though there's one I really want in. >_<

 

[MasterWarlord]

Just pretending all sonic games were on nintendo consoles and the series was 1st party, this is what we'd have in each smash, assuming we kept the same amount of characters:

SSB64: Ness, Jigglypuff or Luigi are cut while Sonic gets in. Yoshi is bumped down to unlockable.

Melee: We get Tails over some other unique character. Ice Climbers, Mewtwo, or Peach are decent contenders. Peach isn't as popular or as important as Wario, I'm still amazed she got in before him.

Brawl: Shadow gets in over Wolf due to the series being far more popular. Shadow would resemble Sonic slightly, but barely, in the same way Wolf does to Fox. Why Shadow? Because he could at least be vaguely similiar to Sonic, reusing a couple bits of work, which Sakurai's team would be overjoyed at.

My point? Sonic's an important series, and it's only being given this status due to it's 3rd party ranking. There really are no other series that deserve a second character before Sonic, and the Sonic series and it's characters are far more iconic then a decen tamount of the characters in Brawl. Of course, it's not Nintendo, which is why it gets lowered, but when they start having to pull character choices out of things like a fourth Starfox, DK or Kirby Rep, the important 3rd party characters will simply be unable to be ignored. SSB4 can still get away without too much 3rd party emphasis, as there are still enough characters to add that are iconic and popular enough, but SSB5 will be terrible without more 3rd parties. SSB4 certainly could use more 3rd parties though. It doesn't have to be a big jump, just three or four, and then SSB5 can jump up to bigger numbers.

But I don't think it'll happen. They don't want to advertise the games of their opponnents. Sonic fans will already buy it for Sonic. Adding Tails, Knuckles or Shadow won't really give that many more sales.

 

[Kiyosuki]

I don't know if i'd want another Sonic rep. This is just me, but while there are a lot of 3rd party possibilities I feel like it'd be best if they kept it strictly at one rep per series for them. It's just how I personally feel though, I wouldn't go mad if Tails or some second rep from a 3rd party were a playable or something.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Just pretending all sonic games were on nintendo consoles and the series was 1st party, this is what we'd have in each smash, assuming we kept the same amount of characters:

SSB64: Ness, Jigglypuff or Luigi are cut while Sonic gets in. Yoshi is bumped down to unlockable.

Melee: We get Tails over some other unique character. Ice Climbers, Mewtwo, or Peach are decent contenders. Peach isn't as popular or as important as Wario, I'm still amazed she got in before him.

Brawl: Shadow gets in over Wolf due to the series being far more popular. Shadow would resemble Sonic slightly, but barely, in the same way Wolf does to Fox. Why Shadow? Because he could at least be vaguely similiar to Sonic, reusing a couple bits of work, which Sakurai's team would be overjoyed at.

My point? Sonic's an important series, and it's only being given this status due to it's 3rd party ranking. There really are no other series that deserve a second character before Sonic, and the Sonic series and it's characters are far more iconic then a decen tamount of the characters in Brawl. Of course, it's not Nintendo, which is why it gets lowered, but when they start having to pull character choices out of things like a fourth Starfox, DK or Kirby Rep, the important 3rd party characters will simply be unable to be ignored. SSB4 can still get away without too much 3rd party emphasis, as there are still enough characters to add that are iconic and popular enough, but SSB5 will be terrible without more 3rd parties. SSB4 certainly could use more 3rd parties though. It doesn't have to be a big jump, just three or four, and then SSB5 can jump up to bigger numbers.

But I don't think it'll happen. They don't want to advertise the games of their opponnents. Sonic fans will already buy it for Sonic. Adding Tails, Knuckles or Shadow won't really give that many more sales.

Yay, I completely agree with mostly everything you said. By the time the next Smash rolls around, I predict that only one or two more new Nintendo character-driven franchises will be popular enough to have a Smash character. Throw in some of the more recent reps of some already existing franchises (aka Pokemon) and other Brawl leftovers too. That's not really that much, and I think that more third-parties, even just 5 or 6 from different franchises, would be great and liven things up. Smash has much room to wiggle around in thanks to the introduction of third-parties. They don't necessarily have to be advertisements for other games.

 

[Roihu]

I don't know i'd want another Sonic rep. This is just me, but while there are a lot of 3rd party possibilities I feel like it'd be best if they kept it strictly at one rep per series for them. It's just how I personally feel though, I wouldn't go mad if Tails or some second rep from a 3rd party were a playable or something.

I'd be okay with Sonic getting a second rep. It's bearable with his history with Nintendo.
Any other 3rd party series does not need a rep. Hell, they don't even need to be in Brawl for most of them. Megaman I'm iffy about, but I guess he can be let in even though his history with Nintendo is scarce, cause seriously, there are a lot of games on Nintendo's systems.

Yay, I completely agree with mostly everything you said. By the time the next Smash rolls around, I predict that only one or two more new Nintendo character-driven franchises will be popular enough to have a Smash character. Throw in some of the more recent reps of some already existing franchises (aka Pokemon) and other Brawl leftovers too. That's not really that much, and I think that more third-parties, even just 5 or 6 from different franchises, would be great and liven things up. Smash has much room to wiggle around in thanks to the introduction of third-parties. They don't necessarily have to be advertisements for other games.

Except they will be advertisement.
Think of how many people played Earthbound prior to it being in Brawl. Think of how many people got interested in so many other series thanks to Brawl.
JUST 5 or 6? I think 5 or 6 is IMPOSSIBLE.
Snake got begged into coming. Sonic has history with Nintendo. I don't really see any other 3rd party character that would be in by just people wanting them. Didn't Megaman's creator say he wouldn't care whether or not Megaman is in SSB? But he didn't actually say he'd go to lengths to get him in.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I'd be okay with Sonic getting a second rep. It's bearable with his history with Nintendo.
Any other 3rd party series does not need a rep. Hell, they don't even need to be in Brawl for most of them. Megaman I'm iffy about, but I guess he can be let in even though his history with Nintendo is scarce, cause seriously, there are a lot of games on Nintendo's systems.

(I thought Mega Man did have a lot of games on Nintendo systems?)

Sure, third-parties aren't necessary (but then again, what is?), but wouldn't they be cool and exciting? Hm? Hmmmm?

EDIT: Yes, Hideo Kojima "begged" for Snake to get in. There are plenty of franchises connected to Nintendo that Sakurai or whoever could get in if he wanted to. Mega Man's creator said something along the lines of it was up to Nintendo to decide whether they wanted him or not, but that it would be cool to see his creation fighting alongside his other favorite characters from childhood.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Call me an idiot but is Simon Belmont that guy from Castelvania?[/QUOTE]IDIOT!

1) Castlevania games have always usually been on Nintendo consoles. Even the monstrosity that was the series N64 incarnation

Fix'd.

Also...I'd love to have Tails, and maybe Knuckles...but could we please keep Shadow out of this? It's bad enough he showed up in Brawl in the capacity he did...

EDIT - Mega Man 1 to 8(?) were on Nintendo systems, as were a good number of the X games. There was Legends on the 64, a couple on the Gamecube, and a metric ton of Mega Man games across the GBA and DS.

So yeah, he's got "a history". Much moreso than Snake or Sonic, anyways.

 

[Kiyosuki]

I'd be okay with Sonic getting a second rep. It's bearable with his history with Nintendo.
Any other 3rd party series does not need a rep. Hell, they don't even need to be in Brawl for most of them. Megaman I'm iffy about, but I guess he can be let in even though his history with Nintendo is scarce, cause seriously, there are a lot of games on Nintendo's systems.

Megaman's history with Nintendo is hardly scarce...

I think it's pretty hard to argue against the fact this sprite is one of the most remembered things about the NES.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Also...I'd love to have Tails, and maybe Knuckles...but could we please keep Shadow out of this? It's bad enough he showed up in Brawl in the capacity he did...

EDIT - Mega Man 1 to 8(?) were on Nintendo systems, as were a good number of the X games. There was Legends on the 64, a couple on the Gamecube, and a metric ton of Mega Man games across the GBA and DS.

So yeah, he's got "a history". Much moreso than Snake or Sonic, anyways.

Tails is Sonic's Luigi/Falco, and Shadow is Sonic's Wolf. But apparently, Shadow is the second most popular character in the series...the question is, if Sonic gets another character, will the reason be for iconic status or popularity?

 

[Kiyosuki]

The problem with going too crazy with the Sonic characters though is that the fans of any other potential 3rd party series would start to get all fiery and call it unfair, so it would escalate from there. And if you have a say...Mega Man, Simon Belmont, Ryu, or even say...an FF character...characters with a lot of possibilities for secondary character additions, and all of which with just as much history with Nintendo...in most of these cases more-so than Sonic (I mean really, this guy was considred the anti-Nintendo symbol a decade ago.), then you'd have a potential third party mess on your hands.

I still say one rep for each 3rd party series is the most fair way to go, no exceptions. Unless they intend to just go crazy next time and make a full blown Nintendo vs. the Universe game where half the roster is Nintendo and the other half is everyone else and Darth Vader's nonexistent grandmother.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Shadow is Sonic's Wolf. But apparently, Shadow is the second most popular character in the series...

To be perfectly frank, I don't give a flying f*ck.

Shadow is basically everything that's been degrading the Sonic franchise post-Sonic Adventure, compressed and personified into a horribly written, banal character.

HE HAS NO PLACE AMONGST THE SUPER SMASH BROTHERS

 

[flyinfilipino]

The problem with going too crazy with the Sonic characters though is that the fans of any other potential 3rd party series would start to get all fiery and call it unfair, so it would escalate from there. And if you have a say...Mega Man, Simon Belmont, Ryu, or even say...an FF character...characters with a lot of possibilities for secondary character additions, and all of which with just as much history with Nintendo...in most of these cases more-so than Sonic (I mean really, this guy was considred the anti-Nintendo symbol a decade ago.), then you'd have a potential third party mess on your hands.

I still say one rep for each 3rd party series is the most fair way to go, no exceptions. Unless they intend to just go crazy next time and make a full blown Nintendo vs. the Universe game where half the roster is Nintendo and the other half is everyone else.

Maybe...they could bump it up to 2 max. per franchise (the second ones could be unlockable). Hopefully people will just be happy that their favorite characters made it into Smash in the first place.

...

(and I mean the rest of the world, not just the people in this thread )


I definitely had an awesome dream about that Nintendo vs. The World thing. In fact, that's exactly what it was called. (it was awesome!)



EDIT - Chief: But he and Krystal could become great friends!

 

[Roihu]

I repeat: Look at the excessive amount of games that have appeared on Nintendo consoles.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I repeat: Look at the excessive amount of games that have appeared on Nintendo consoles.

What about them?

 

[Kiyosuki]

He's basically saying f-u to the idea of any more third party characters.

 

[Roihu]

Well, partially, but I'm not completely against Megaman being in SSB. I'm just saying being on the Nintendo consoles isn't exactly anything that guarantees them to be in.

 

[Chief Mendez]

EDIT - Chief: But he and Krystal could become great friends!

I was going to describe how much I hate Shadow here, but I simply can't put it into words.

My hatred is inexpressible.

Anyway, I would absolutely love to see "Nintendo vs. the World". That's actually no too shabby of a name, actually. Or just "Nintendo Vs.", maybe. But yeah, if they cut the Nintendo roster down to 25 characters (about Melee-sized), then picked 5 other companies (SEGA, Capcom, Konami, Namco, and..somebody else) to lend 5 characters each...

That would be rad.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Well, partially, but I'm not completely against Megaman being in SSB. I'm just saying being on the Nintendo consoles isn't exactly anything that guarantees them to be in.

Of course not, but that's what keeps most people's wishlists in check.

I mean, even Masahiro Sakurai, creator of Smash, let Snake in despite having 2(?) games on Nintendo consoles. It shows he may be perfectly willing to push the limits in the future.

EDIT - Chief: Hell yes.

Except for the cutting of characters part. It'll be Mewtwo X 100.

EDIT2 - Kiyosuki: The last idea you posted seems pretty intersting.

EDIT3 - Maybe they could change to name to...Ultra Smash Bros. - Nintendo vs. The World?

 

[Kiyosuki]

Well, partially, but I'm not completely against Megaman being in SSB. I'm just saying being on the Nintendo consoles isn't exactly anything that guarantees them to be in.

Nothing in this thread is guaranteed, it's about a nonexistent what-if game.

Though which characters are more sensible, and possible than others is something that's brought up in this thread very often.

Anyways heh, on the subject of third party characters, I thought about that Nintendo vs. like everyone else thing too. I think most probably have. If they wanted to try something really radical for the next one like Sakurai said that'd certainly be one way to do it, to make the entire premise of the game Nintendo vs. everyone else.

This would be a really useless but cool feature, but I always thought another cool thing they could try is different design schemes for the menus the player can select, based on series' represented in the game. Useless yeah but I think it'd be neat. Maybe make a couple unlockable, give you something else to go after other than trophies and such.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Metal Gear, Ghost Babel, and Twin Snakes. Three games.

I'm just saying being on the Nintendo consoles isn't exactly anything that guarantees them to be in.

Maybe not for most characters, but Megaman's got the whole "gaming icon" thing going on for him. And how many other characters were so requested, besides Sonic? I don't remember the gaming press reporting on how Geno's creator wasn't asked to put that character in Brawl...

EDIT - Sh*t. Also Snake's Revenge. Make that four games.

@ Kiyosuki - Yeah, different skins would be useless. At least not on the main menus or anything, but maybe, like, if you were playing through Classic with Yoshi, all the text and stuff during the "Vs. Team Kirby" things would have a moving wax crayon-look to it or something.

 

[Roihu]

Metal Gear, Ghost Babel, and Twin Snakes. Three games.

Maybe not for most characters, but Megaman's got the whole "gaming icon" thing going on for him. And how many other characters were so requested, besides Sonic? I don't remember the gaming press reporting on how Geno's creator wasn't asked to put that character in Brawl...

Geno has a creator? 0.o
I always just assumed Square as a whole made him...

 

[flyinfilipino]

This would be a really useless but cool feature, but I always thought another cool thing they could try is different design schemes for the menus the player can select, based on series' represented in the game. Useless yeah but I think it'd be neat. Maybe make a couple unlockable, give you something else to go after other than trophies and such.

Wouldn't that go against the whole 'gaming unity' concept of Smash, a little though?

Metal Gear, Ghost Babel, and Twin Snakes. Three games.

I STAND CORRECTED

EDIT: AND SO DO YOU

Ultra Smash Bros. ftw?

 

[Kiyosuki]

Who knows who created Geno, but I think he appeared in one of the DS Mario RPGs so I don't think he's as exclusive to Square as some people think. He's just unfortunately fallen into the same trap as the Koopa Kids more likely, he's awesome but he's...kinda swept under the carpet.

Anyways we talked about Geno to death a ton of pages back. He's the fan favorite that'll probably never make it in.

Wouldn't that go against the whole 'gaming unity' concept of Smash, a little though?

Nah, the player can select whatever scheme they choose so it's perfectly neutral.

Not like...that matters much, it'd be neat.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Geno has a creator? 0.o
I always just assumed Square as a whole made him...

He may or may not, I don't actually know. I was just illustrating a point--no other character had news posts on gaming blogs posted about their prospects for getting in Brawl.

EDIT - Geno was on a movie poster in the GBA game Superstar Saga. A very minor cameo, and even then, Square got their comapny name in the credits for it.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Sonic Adventure 2 was a perfectly fine game, a good one at that. It's story was just as good if not better then Sonic Adventure's. Shadow was a good character in Sonic Adventure 2, having an epic death. . .But then gets revived magically in Sonic Heroes and his character gets butchered, killing him. Don't you dare say that Sonic Adventure 2 is when the series went down-hill, that blame belongs only to Sonic Heroes. The only reason Shadow himself is given blame is due to the horrendous game that is named after Shadow, but that wasn't when the series first took a nose dive in quality.

Still, Tails and Knuckles are more iconic and deserve to get in before Shadow. The only way Shadow will get in is if he's a last second clone of Sonic, which I can actually see happening to bulk up the roster in number and in popular characters.

I loved Shadow in SA2, now I don't really give a crap about him. It's not his fault so much as that of Sonic Team, who ruined the character, in a fashion like how Sakurai ruined Mewtwo in Melee.

 

[Roihu]

He may or may not, I don't actually know. I was just illustrating a point--no other character had news posts on gaming blogs posted about their prospects for getting in Brawl.

Good point...
I still feel like *****ing about 3rd party, so I'll probably ***** about Castlevania when someone suggests it.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Good point...
I still feel like *****ing about 3rd party, so I'll probably ***** about Castlevania when someone suggests it.

So, about Castlevania....

 

[Chief Mendez]

I still feel like *****ing about 3rd party, so I'll probably ***** about Castlevania when someone suggests it.

SIMON BELMONT FOR SUPER SMASH BROS. FORE!!

Spoiler

I <3 Castlevania

@ 'Warlord: ...Sonic Adventure 2 was when the series went downhill. Adventure was flawed but good, especially with the promise of the system getting better as more 3D Sonics were made...but instead, SEGA decided to not really try and improve the system, but rather, fill the series with even more useless-crap sidekicks and juvenile plotlines.

 

[Roihu]

So, about Castlevania....

*Goes to Wikipedia and studies what the hell Castlevania is*

 

[flyinfilipino]

*Goes to Wikipedia and studies what the hell Castlevania is*

I'd go to Virtual NES and play some of the old classics too.

(Don't worry, I had to do the same thing)

 

[MasterWarlord]

SIMON BELMONT FOR SUPER SMASH BROS. FORE!!

Spoiler

I <3 Castlevania

@ 'Warlord: ...Sonic Adventure 2 was when the series went downhill. Adventure was flawed but good, especially with the promise of the system getting better as more 3D Sonics were made...but instead, SEGA decided to not really try and improve the system, but rather, fill the series with even more useless-crap sidekicks and juvenile plotlines.

The plotline for SA2 didn't make me want to barf like One Piece, which people watch solely for story, as there is no gameplay.

SA2 didn't introduce "crap sidekicks". It gave us villians in the form of shadow and rouge, at least for that game. If you want "crap sidekicks", check sonic adventure 1 for big the cat and E 1-02 Gamma. The gameplay in SA2 wasn't that much of a downgrade, as it didn't feature those annoying *** adventure fields, and there were better and more numerous boss fights. Even if you don't like SA2, don't you DARE try to tell me that any of the 3D sonic games after it were anywhere near on it's level.

*Spits on Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic the Hedgehog '06, Sonic and the Secret Rings*

 

[Kiyosuki]

I'm very surprised how obscure Castlevania seems to be in this thread. It's one of the iconic NES titles, and it feels like there's a new Castlevania game on a Nintendo handheld every year nowadays.

 

[gantrain05]

sorry but, i don't understand why people suggest shadow as a seperate character, just make it an alt costume, we don't need anymore crappy clones.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I'm very surprised how obscure Castlevania seems to be in this thread. It's one of the iconic NES titles, and it feels like there's a new Castlevania game on a Nintendo handheld every year nowadays.

Yeah, I really ought to see if I can borrow my friend's games and see what it's all about.

Ohmygosh, this thread is advertisement!


EDIT - gantrain: What about our current "clones" is crappy? (if you're a LoZ fan, I'd understand)

 

[Chief Mendez]

The plotline for SA2 didn't make me want to barf like One Piece, which people watch solely for story, as there is no gameplay.

Technically, I don't watch One Piece. I read it. The anime's not nearly as good as the manga.

BUT I DIGRESS

What I mean about SA2 is that it didn't meet the potential set by Sonic Adventure. I don't think any of the other 3D Sonics are better than it, but that's not saying much...

CASTLEVANIA!

I bring it up whenever it comes up, because it's seriously like, my favorite franchise (not favorite game, but favorite franchise). I would, no joke, die of happiness if Simon were in a Smash Bros. game.

 

[ness4life]

Seriously, NOBODY wants Shadow as a character. An alternate costume's fine. Of course, this is assuming that Sonic is even in SSB4. As previously mentioned on this thread, Smash might go the Soul Calibur route and switch up the guest characters every game.

@flyinfilipino: this entire site is an advertisement!