OFFICIAL Sonic rFAQ! New to Sonic? Have a quick question? Ask it here!

[da K.I.D.]

There are very very few people that I would consistently say is an automatic loss for a sonic player.

I put malcolm in this group just because 1. He incredibly smart about the game to the point that even tho its been like a year and a half he could play sonic tomorrow and still be better than 95% of the sonic mains out there. 2. Hes highly skilled with a character that has a significant matchup advantage on sonic. So when your better with the character than the person you are playing against, AND happen to play a character that essentially counters him... how are you gonna beat that?

I used to think of shugo the same way, but I dont think falco has the same matchup advantage on sonic that wario has, but everything else still stands, so I can only think of maybe 2-3 people that might be able to beat him with sonic.

basically if it boils down to if you know the character to the point where you can predict everything that the other guy is going to do, and you play a character than has teh capabilities to counter all such attributes, your going to win hands down.

so yea, it boils down to predictability, being technically efficient.

also, pikax2 told me that he beat malcolm at apex. I cant describe how hilarious that is to me.

 

[MalcolmM]

Namesearch mayne. Neil beat me in 1 of 2 friendlies. The friendly where I didn't SD @ 0 I nearly 3 stocked him. The friendly where I did...it was last stock. Why is he such a troll?

And sonics lose to me because they make poor decisions. No1 ever attacks me like I have any knowledge. They try and gimmick me and die @ 60 for it.

 

[Kuraudo]

Fight with simplicity. Flashiness thrown out there to confuse someone will not work.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Thats a lie, it will work on anyone that doesnt have extensive knowledge of the character.

 

[Kinzer]

Thats a lie, it will work on anyone that doesnt have extensive knowledge of the character.

Weren't you going on about how we should think about how to play against people that actually know the matchup in the social?

 

[da K.I.D.]

You can know how to combat another character, without having extensive knowledge of how the character works.

 

[Exceladon City]

I do it all the time. I only know like 5 match-ups. The rest is improv.

 

[memphischains]

Why didn't we find this like a year ago?

Removed by Chis

 

[Espy Rose]

We did. You just didn't notice.

 

[memphischains]

o rly

****

 

[Mister Eric]

Hellu Sonic Boards, you might be seeing me a lot here in the next little while asking questions about your character and how they perform on a certain stage.
Character boards seem to cycle through incomplete MU threads to new ones in hope to update them and finally complete them. This is the R.O.B. Boards attempt at completing a sufficient stage-discussion thread and I'm going to try my best to get accurate and thorough information, but I'll need your help. This will be the only question with an introductory. I just wanted to say hello and let you know that if you guys need info on anything for R.O.B. don't hesitate asking. ^_^

Anywho!

Q: How does Sonic fair off on Delfino Plaza in general and against R.O.B.. Why is it good or bad? What can Sonic abuse and what might possibly annoy you that R.O.B. can do on this stage? On a scale of 1 - 10, what do you see Sonic's chances of doing well on this stage against R.O.B. 1 being the worst for you 10 being the best.

thanks guys =]
<beep3

 

[da K.I.D.]

Delfino for sonic is a lot like Delfino in general, its a mixed bag. most of the flying platformed stages dont do much for or against him, aside from giving him an almost decent sharking game.

The only thing that really stands out for me, is the one spot with the 3 verticle pillars that are over the water.

The vertical ceiling is so low, we can get very very low % up air combo kills there, we can also kill with up smash there, which normally is a very rare occurance.

as a whole this stage makes the rob matchup slightly harder for sonic, since the stage boundaries are usually massive, it makes it very hard to kill him, and theres usually a whole lot of ground space, meaning its easier for rob to camp us. and also because it gives rob a decent sharking game, and his is better than sonics.

id say as a whole i would give this stage like a 3 out of 10 in terms of an effective counter pick against rob.

 

[~TBS~]

Yo, i got this.

KID pretty much nailed it. I just dont see why you would take ROB to delfino...i mean, maybe as a surprise attack, but those only get you so far. I wouldnt recommend it. :/

Rob's nair is so gay. i know, you shouldnt be getting hit with it yada yada, but its just so gayy ugh. Especially on low ceiling parts like the pillars. Screw that. Plus water and spiking to death.

 

[M]

In terms of Sonic against a swimming character on delfino, would I be right in hitting them repeatedly with the sour end of nair so they can't escape and have more trouble getting up when the stage rises again?

 

[Kinzer]

I honestly rather just Bair.

Sourspot or not.

Just make sure that get sent away from the stage.

 

[Browny]

Go for the dair sweetspot, easier to hit and with comparable horizontal knockback to bair.

 

[M]

So dair won't plunge me deep into the water? Because if it did that, there's still chance they may get out and to safer ground.

 

[Kinzer]

Actually, now that I was thinking about it.

As long as the opponent hits the water before you do, anything that can do that should be fine. For some reason though, when I think of Dair, I think the opponent could somehow DI that hard enough to do a double jump or whatever else they need to do to get out of the water/punish you. Do note that Dair also sends Sonic rocketing down which means you'll stay in the water longer...

I don't see why an abruptly-ended Fair couldn't work, but again I haven't done extensive testing, so perhaps that could give me and Tails something to do when he comes over to my house later today.

...God-freaking-

I need better sleep hours. Being awake when nobody else is on is lame.

...Or I need more friends. Perhaps both.

 

[M]

I still think Nair would be a good choice to mess with them. Keeps them close to you and doesn't give them the chance to DI well enough compared to things like bair/dair, so can rinse and repeat until the stage rises far enough, for them to not make it back.

Just an opinion though.


And I'll be your late night friend, Kinzer. =P

edit: Oh gawd, that was an awful way to say that. >.<

 

[Browny]

Lol I forgot dair sends you deep underwater haha, I dont think I've ever actually tried it I just thought it would work

Dont forget to spring spike them just before they jump out to keep them in the water as the stage transforms, gives you plenty of time to time an edgehog

Kinzer, go on luc irc then. me and kita are almost always there with a few others at late night your time

 

[Kinzer]

Kita is usually busy doing something else.

In any case though, let me try to ask something that's been on my mind for some time.

Does it matter in any bit how you hit somebody's shield on a platform and they slide off?

...Not exactly clear, let me try to rephrase.

Is there a way to have it where the opponent is stuck in some sort of lag after getting knocked off a platform where they can tumblefall onto the ground and have it set up right into a jab-lock, or can the opponent always jump out before they hit the floor below?

 

[Browny]

well... you can airdodge in time. So the only variable is the height of the platform and how long they have to react before they hit the ground on their back.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i think it depends on the strength of the shielded attack, combined with the weight of the actual shielding character.

San has actually gained the instinctive ability to instantly double jump bair every single time I knock him off a platform. Its really gay. It FEELS like it has something to do with the fact that ike is heavier than most characters but I have no way to be certain.

 

[Tesh]

I'm pretty sure the traction of the shielding character and the strength of the attack only determine whether or not you tumble or go flying off the side at a diagonal.

But if you are facing the edge you are thrown off of, you can instantly do whatever you want (I was almost certain KID was the one I discovered that from). If your air speed is high enough you can even land right back where you were.

 

[da K.I.D.]

ohhhh, i totally forgot that its different when you are facing to and away from the edge.

 

[DanGR]

Couple questions:

How reliable is Sonic's jab on hit? Is it similar to ZSS' and Squirtle's jab in that you can shield the latter hits at low percents?

Are there any characters that can't DI straight down far enough to tech dthrow? <.<

Have Sonic's hitbubbles been recorded yet? You know, where the yellow bubbles show up to display where the hitboxes are.

About how far does Sonic's hurtbox move when he uses his upsmash and dsmash?

Last one. I'm sick of upbing onto the stage, buffering a dash as I land, and running back off JUST to enter the special fall animation and die. Is there a way to avoid this?

 

[Kinzer]

Couple questions:

How reliable is Sonic's jab on hit? Is it similar to ZSS' and Squirtle's jab in that you can shield the latter hits at low percents?

Are there any characters that can't DI straight down far enough to tech dthrow? <.<

Have Sonic's hitbubbles been recorded yet? You know, where the yellow bubbles show up to display where the hitboxes are.

About how far does Sonic's hurtbox move when he uses his upsmash and dsmash?

Last one. I'm sick of upbing onto the stage, buffering a dash as I land, and running back off JUST to enter the special fall animation and die. Is there a way to avoid this?

The third hit will connect assuming either of the first two connect.

Jigglypuff. She's too floaty for her own good.

Yes sir.

DSmash is obvious. It's shrunk into the ball he's in and moves wherever the attack goes. USmash I do not know for granted.

Don't ever (get forced to) recover that low? Sorry, but it's a dumb glitch Sakurai left in for Sonic whenever he doesn't go into his Spring-falling animation before he hits the ground. You'll get that animation the next time you leave the ground, and it works like normal after that.

 

[Tesh]

shields are frame 2 but I have been jabbed out of my jab by zss and squirtle. However you can then jab zss and fatigued squirtle back out of their jab and then you have a great boxing match of rodents, turtles and women.

 

[Kinzer]

...Frame two?

IIRC, the shield comes up on the first frame, and from there a couple of frames for powershielding, but even if that doesn't happen the shield is obviously up...

What?

 

[Browny]

Sonics hitbubbles have been recorded... Unfortunately there is no correlation between the hitbubble images, and the actual hitbubbles in-game

Due to Sonic having growing body parts on attacks (like mario/luigi/ddd/kirby/jigglypuff etc) (and not lucario, snake, marth, ike etc) the bubbles are shown larger than they actually are. The images arent really useful.

And yeah if you are springing from so low such that you actually create that glitch, youre doing it wrong. With sideb, homing attack and just normal DI you should never be that low.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Couple questions:

How reliable is Sonic's jab on hit? Is it similar to ZSS' and Squirtle's jab in that you can shield the latter hits at low percents?

If you hold the A button all 3 hits of sonics jab combo will hit. always.
The only problem is that you can DI away from sonics jab because it has piss poor range, and than you can shield/spotdodge/punish it from there. but against people that dont know what to do. if you just hold the A button. it turns into a crappy combat walk, where sonic will hit with jab 1, miss with jab 2, go back to jab 1, hit, whiff with jab 2 and so on.

Are there any characters that can't DI straight down far enough to tech dthrow? <.<

No there are not. every character can do it. But individual characters get different amounts of frame advantage on him when they do.

Have Sonic's hitbubbles been recorded yet? You know, where the yellow bubbles show up to display where the hitboxes are.

Yes but nobody relys on them, since the hitbubbles have been shown to be stupidly inaccurate.

About how far does Sonic's hurtbox move when he uses his upsmash and dsmash?

I am 98% sure that sonics hurt bubble is always visually accurate. his quills some times make determining that a pain, but in ball form (up smash and down smash) his hurt box is always what it looks like on the screen.

Last one. I'm sick of upbing onto the stage, buffering a dash as I land, and running back off JUST to enter the special fall animation and die. Is there a way to avoid this?

That happens when you land at the very apex of the spring jump. The fall special is transfered to the next time you are in the air.

You can avoid this by
1. recovering higher. and not having to land at the very apex of your jump. and
2. if you are forced to land this way, simply short hop and land and your jump data will be returned to normal. (You will notice that when you short hop you go into fall special but that will go away as soon as you land again.

 

[Espy Rose]

Fun fact Kinzer: Snake and G&W also have the upB glitch.

 

[Tesh]

I remember reading on the snake and pokemon trainer boards that shields are frame 2. Which is why squirtle can grab release you and then jab you before you can shield the first hit. In any case, I always get jabbed out of my jab my zss, but never shielded without SDI.

 

[da K.I.D.]

squirtle gets that jab because he has one frame less of lag on his grab release.

shields are frame 1.

 

[Kinzer]

I remember reading on the snake and pokemon trainer boards that shields are frame 2. Which is why squirtle can grab release you and then jab you before you can shield the first hit. In any case, I always get jabbed out of my jab my zss, but never shielded without SDI.

Isn't that because Squirtle can act on frame 29 out of grab-releasing a character while everybody else (under normal circumstances, I know Bowser is an exception, I'm not sure if the same holds true for DK) acts on frame 30?

As for Snake, I don't know where you got it, but if you could find it I'd like to see for myself and look into it and see whether I'm wrong or right...

Edit: Now this time I'm too slow.

 

[DanGR]

You guys are thorough. Thanks everyone. :o

And I originally meant teching Sonic's dthrow right next to him so as to punish him for using it- not way out in front of him.

 

[Mister Eric]

Thanks for the help, da K.I.D. =]

 

[Tenki]

Are there any characters that can't DI straight down far enough to tech dthrow? <.<

Jigglypuff.

Until something like 120-130%, she flies something like a set trajectory, I think.

 

[M]

What's the best way to approach a Falco that loves to just retreat and shoot lasers?

 

[Browny]

whats with the sonic icon lol? wasnt that long ago you denounced your use of sonic in ness boards

I was gonna suggest watching some videos of top sonics against falcos but... they often dont have a reliable way of doing it too lol. idk, maybe approach through the air (dodge) to get within like, half of FD range then approach with dash grab, DA, SH fair where applicable? They should be fast enough to catch him in lag from his lasers at different heights during his jump.