Until your opponent learns to space...
Or grab lol
Or grab lol
-
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Official Snake Q&A Area
- Thread starter Underload
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Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
Eh i've found it extremely useful as it's just another option.Until your opponent learns to space...
Or grab lol
I'm trolling.
It's a handy mixup.
Truth is, none of snakes ledge options are actually good.
It's a handy mixup.
Truth is, none of snakes ledge options are actually good.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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Most characters feel like they have no legitimate option of getting off the ledge. The ledge is good, but getting off it is dangerous.
Get-up too good. Only 2 frame vulnerability under 100% and 4 frame vulnerability over 100%. Completely universal over all characters.
Get-up too good. Only 2 frame vulnerability under 100% and 4 frame vulnerability over 100%. Completely universal over all characters.
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
Ya i've personally found standard get up to be one of the best in practice. Snake does have quite a few more options than some characters. Which i like.
Lol ledge drop up air is hilarious when someone pre-emptively charges a smash attack or just is sitting there. I've gotten quite a few surprise kills this way lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXwpMUrqGts&feature=related&t=6m41s
Lol ledge drop up air is hilarious when someone pre-emptively charges a smash attack or just is sitting there. I've gotten quite a few surprise kills this way lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXwpMUrqGts&feature=related&t=6m41s
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
Kuro I see you doing the f smash with a grenade! thats MY TRICK!!!! copy catLOL
it works like a charm on people who haven't seen it b4. Cuz i swear to god it shield pokes more than fsmash by itself ever would...gotten so many kills off someone dash shielding into it just to get shield poked...
Xiao-Xiao
Smash Journeyman
Tbh, I'm really only picking up ICs as a DDD/Oli counter. My diddy kinda ***** Oli and DDD but having a pocket ICs seems like a safe option too. I get alot of DDD and Oli practice from playing CBeef/Anuar/Rich Brown.
So far my ICs progress is coming along smoothly.
So far my ICs progress is coming along smoothly.
TSM ZeRo
Banned via Administration
Questions
Hello.
Thanks in advance!.
Hello.
- As a Meta Knight player, besides of Rainbow Cruise/Brinstar, where I should take Snake on my counterpick? I usually go Delfino Plaza, but with the Apex Ruleset, that's usually what the Snake player bans. Frigate Orpheon? Or is another stage a better option? If so, which stage?
- What's the best stage ban against Snake? I usually ban Halberd (Meta Knight dies extremely early there). Or is Final Destination a better ban? I have seen some Snakes use Castle Siege as their counterpick, what about that stage?
Thanks in advance!
.Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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Its easiest to learn how to do on the game cube controller. Start running forward 1) push the c-stick down, 2) move the control stick up 3) press the Z button.
You need to do it in that order and quickly. Almost simultaneously, but still in the proper order I just described. If you are using something like the wiimote and nunchuck, I am not sure how to do that.
KageMurphy
Smash Master
How do you cancel your run with a pivot granade? I sawe Havoks snake do it a lot, here is an example of what I am talking about at @ 2:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyuO9j1ZTi4&list=PL645DBD4A2AA27C35&index=24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyuO9j1ZTi4&list=PL645DBD4A2AA27C35&index=24
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
You just do a grounded b-reverse.
he just does a wavebounce nade out of a dash.
so dash forward, press b, press backward.
so dash forward, press b, press backward.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
How do you dacus with wiichuck?
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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One way to do it is simply using two attack buttons. If you dash with the control stick in an up-left or up-right position, this initiates a dash, but will also register as Up on the control stick for an Up Smash. Dash attack with one attack button, then press the other attack button.
Although, this sort of assumes tap jump is off.
Although, this sort of assumes tap jump is off.
Mike2
Smash Ace
Tips on getting better with items? I generally struggle against characters who use items/projectiles
zss(beginning)
diddy
peach
tink
zss(beginning)
diddy
peach
tink
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
A few ways.
With a training partner.
Go to Shadow Moses Island and use zss or wario. Proceed to use the walls and each other to practice juggling, instant throwing, and the like.
Without do the same as above but by yourself.
Play a character that uses items for a while/in friendlies. Diddy/wario/zss in order.
Mess around in training.
Tl'dr practice
Mike2
Smash Ace
i can insta throw really well already
any other tips(specifics)?
any other tips(specifics)?
I wrote this for the Marth boards, but, it applies to every character... just maybe not in the specifics. E.g. Snake's glide toss isn't useful for escaping situations as it doesn't go very far, especially when compared to Marth's.
[COLLAPSE="Item tricks"]Item pick-up- When next to the item, press the “A” button and your character will pick up the item next to you. Not every character has the same range in which they can pick up an item from. Also catches an item if it's coming at you.
Smash throw- Throwing an item as hard as your character can. Use the C-stick or hit the analog stick all the way (as if you were doing a smash attack) and hit “A.”
Tilt throw- Throwing an item softer than a smash throw. Tilt the analog stick (as if you were going to do a tilt) and press “A.” You will throw the item less far and it will do less damage on hit.
Z-catch- While in the air, press “Z” to catch an item with no lag
Z-drop- While in the air, with an item in your hand, press “Z” to drop the item with no lag
Air dodge catching- While an item is coming at you in the air, you can air dodge to catch the item. However, you go through the entire duration of the air dodge so this can be baited and punished fairly easily.
Instant throw- While air dodge catching an item, you can cancel the air dodge in the very beginning by throwing the item with either a smash throw or a tilt throw. You can throw the item in all four directions (up, down, left, and right).
Rising instant throw- While an item is on the ground next to you, you can buffer an instant throw out of you jump so you will throw the item on the ground as you rise upwards.
Instant throw on landing- This one is probably the hardest variation of instant throwing (although still fairly simple). Air dodge into the ground as you are about to land but delay you air dodge as late as possible and then as you land, input a throw. You will throw the item as you land on it and you won’t suffer landing lag. (Not sure if this removes RCO lag. Someone should test it for me since I don’t have my wii anymore). This greatly lessens the effect of bananas trapping your landings. A good reason you don’t want to land with an aerial while Diddy has a banana in his hand.
Instant throwing (as a ledge option)- If you are on the ledge with a banana near the ledge, you can fall off from the ledge, jump onto the stage and instant throw the banana as you pass it or land on it. Diddys will do this frequently to you. Use it against him and be prepared for him to use it vs. you.
Glide tossing- While an item is in your hand, you can cancel a roll with a smash throw (if you cancel it with a tilt throw it is referred to as a “weak glidetoss”). Most characters have eight glide tosses (sliding forward while throwing up, down, left, and right; sliding backwards while throwing up, down, left, and right). Marth, however, has between ten and sixteen different glidetosses. He has the normal eight glidetosses that every other character has (sans Yoshi of course). However, he additionally has a short glidetosses, sliding forward while throwing the item down and forward. I’ve been told that all eight of his glidetosses have shortened versions, but I’ve never been able to do them outside of the two aforementioned ones.
Glidetoss on landing- Very similarly to instant throwing on landing, you can delay your air dodge into the ground and grab the item using that. You can then buffer a glidetoss so that you glidetoss as soon as you land. This also lessens the effectiveness of landing traps and offers a good counter approach and escape option if you’re feeling pressured.
Glidetoss out of a run- While running, press shield and instantly input a glide toss. You’ll glide toss out of a run with almost no downtime between the two depending on how long you let your shield stay up before the glidetoss comes out.
Invincible item drop- Air dodge and immediately afterwards, press “A” (not simultaneously). This will have your character drop the item (like they would for a Z-drop) while air dodging. Useful for getting out of juggles.
DACIT (Dash Attack Canceled Item Toss)- Very similar to a DACUS. You initiate a dash attack and cancel it with an item throw. If you do the exact same input as a DACUS, you will throw the item up. Extrapolate from there. This results in a significantly shorter slide than a glidetoss would give you.
JCIT (Jump Canceled Item Toss)- Mostly useful while running. Input a jump then cancel it in your character’s jump squat frames with an item throw (basically the same as a JCgrab in melee). This give almost no slide.
Item pick-up (while running)- Usually while running, pressing “A” to pick up an item results in a dash attack while picking up an item on the ground. However, while running (NOT during an initial dash) if you press “A” when you get to the item and let the analog stick fall back to neutral, you will pick up the item and stop running.
Z-drop speedhug (thank you Kadaj!)- While you are speedhugging, you are considered to be off the stage and in the air for a VERY short amount of time. During this period of time, you can Z-drop an item as you are grabbing the ledge. If Diddy is being required to recover vertically it’s a close to guaranteed gimp.[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Item tricks"]Item pick-up- When next to the item, press the “A” button and your character will pick up the item next to you. Not every character has the same range in which they can pick up an item from. Also catches an item if it's coming at you.
Smash throw- Throwing an item as hard as your character can. Use the C-stick or hit the analog stick all the way (as if you were doing a smash attack) and hit “A.”
Tilt throw- Throwing an item softer than a smash throw. Tilt the analog stick (as if you were going to do a tilt) and press “A.” You will throw the item less far and it will do less damage on hit.
Z-catch- While in the air, press “Z” to catch an item with no lag
Z-drop- While in the air, with an item in your hand, press “Z” to drop the item with no lag
Air dodge catching- While an item is coming at you in the air, you can air dodge to catch the item. However, you go through the entire duration of the air dodge so this can be baited and punished fairly easily.
Instant throw- While air dodge catching an item, you can cancel the air dodge in the very beginning by throwing the item with either a smash throw or a tilt throw. You can throw the item in all four directions (up, down, left, and right).
Rising instant throw- While an item is on the ground next to you, you can buffer an instant throw out of you jump so you will throw the item on the ground as you rise upwards.
Instant throw on landing- This one is probably the hardest variation of instant throwing (although still fairly simple). Air dodge into the ground as you are about to land but delay you air dodge as late as possible and then as you land, input a throw. You will throw the item as you land on it and you won’t suffer landing lag. (Not sure if this removes RCO lag. Someone should test it for me since I don’t have my wii anymore). This greatly lessens the effect of bananas trapping your landings. A good reason you don’t want to land with an aerial while Diddy has a banana in his hand.
Instant throwing (as a ledge option)- If you are on the ledge with a banana near the ledge, you can fall off from the ledge, jump onto the stage and instant throw the banana as you pass it or land on it. Diddys will do this frequently to you. Use it against him and be prepared for him to use it vs. you.
Glide tossing- While an item is in your hand, you can cancel a roll with a smash throw (if you cancel it with a tilt throw it is referred to as a “weak glidetoss”). Most characters have eight glide tosses (sliding forward while throwing up, down, left, and right; sliding backwards while throwing up, down, left, and right). Marth, however, has between ten and sixteen different glidetosses. He has the normal eight glidetosses that every other character has (sans Yoshi of course). However, he additionally has a short glidetosses, sliding forward while throwing the item down and forward. I’ve been told that all eight of his glidetosses have shortened versions, but I’ve never been able to do them outside of the two aforementioned ones.
Glidetoss on landing- Very similarly to instant throwing on landing, you can delay your air dodge into the ground and grab the item using that. You can then buffer a glidetoss so that you glidetoss as soon as you land. This also lessens the effectiveness of landing traps and offers a good counter approach and escape option if you’re feeling pressured.
Glidetoss out of a run- While running, press shield and instantly input a glide toss. You’ll glide toss out of a run with almost no downtime between the two depending on how long you let your shield stay up before the glidetoss comes out.
Invincible item drop- Air dodge and immediately afterwards, press “A” (not simultaneously). This will have your character drop the item (like they would for a Z-drop) while air dodging. Useful for getting out of juggles.
DACIT (Dash Attack Canceled Item Toss)- Very similar to a DACUS. You initiate a dash attack and cancel it with an item throw. If you do the exact same input as a DACUS, you will throw the item up. Extrapolate from there. This results in a significantly shorter slide than a glidetoss would give you.
JCIT (Jump Canceled Item Toss)- Mostly useful while running. Input a jump then cancel it in your character’s jump squat frames with an item throw (basically the same as a JCgrab in melee). This give almost no slide.
Item pick-up (while running)- Usually while running, pressing “A” to pick up an item results in a dash attack while picking up an item on the ground. However, while running (NOT during an initial dash) if you press “A” when you get to the item and let the analog stick fall back to neutral, you will pick up the item and stop running.
Z-drop speedhug (thank you Kadaj!)- While you are speedhugging, you are considered to be off the stage and in the air for a VERY short amount of time. During this period of time, you can Z-drop an item as you are grabbing the ledge. If Diddy is being required to recover vertically it’s a close to guaranteed gimp.[/COLLAPSE]
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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Just start learning how to power shield projectiles. This is the best option Snake (and any character) has against projectiles. And get accustom to how often your opponent starts throwing projectiles out.
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
Everyone can insta throw rather efficiently but how well can you do it on landing? While being pressured? With it being thrown at you out of nowhere WHILE landing? How well can you catch items with A? That's one of the best things TO practice.
Go to shadow moses w/a interested partner.
Both pick wario.
Break the bike.
Throw the tires back and forth catching with "A". Kind of like playing smash hot potato.
Great practice for item play.
Do it at varying distances.
Then start applying it vs diddy/zss/wario. And make a HABIT OF APPLYING ALL THESE ITEM TECHNIQUES. And they'll slowly get better.
Edit: Holy **** O.O i didn't know about that z-drop edge speedhug bit. That's awesome!
Go to shadow moses w/a interested partner.
Both pick wario.
Break the bike.
Throw the tires back and forth catching with "A". Kind of like playing smash hot potato.
Great practice for item play.
Do it at varying distances.
Then start applying it vs diddy/zss/wario. And make a HABIT OF APPLYING ALL THESE ITEM TECHNIQUES. And they'll slowly get better.
Edit: Holy **** O.O i didn't know about that z-drop edge speedhug bit. That's awesome!
Hey, im a new snake player, and was wondering if it was possible to turn off the jump when you press up on the cotrolstick. This would help me alot, cause i cant preform the uptilt at the ground.
If it's possible, how do i trun it off?
All regards
If it's possible, how do i trun it off?
All regards
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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You can turn it off by going to options and selecting either game controls or names. You can then change the controls depending upon with controller you are using, then select tap jump off as a feature.
Thanks dude <3
Ralph Cecil
Smash Champion
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I think a well timed Dash Attack/DACUS is beast against item characters. =D
Mike2
Smash Ace
^ thanks for all the tips for items! much appreciated
my reaction time is usually at it's best when i'm well rested, have eaten(and had a good meal with the right stuff. ex. some type of protein and fiber), well hydrated, and warmed up. anything beyond that?
same here. feels bad man *_* since you brought it up, anybody have advice on improving reaction time? lolPowershielding is very easy if you move the shield command to X or Y [whichever you don't lose]. I can easily powerblock like 70% of Falco's lasers and my reaction time is terrible.
my reaction time is usually at it's best when i'm well rested, have eaten(and had a good meal with the right stuff. ex. some type of protein and fiber), well hydrated, and warmed up. anything beyond that?
There's actually 5 things you need to know about reaction time:
1) When something happens, you take it in using your senses (sight/sound being the two most common ones in brawl. Well, and touch for hitconfirm via rumble). From that point the information gets processed by your brain (not going super detailed about this, but, think of your brain as being flat. Every time you experience and process something you get like a... groove in your brain. Each subsequent time you experience that situation that groove becomes more defined and the data travels quicker). After processing what happened, you get to actually react.
2) The more you're exposed to a specific situation, the quicker your brain will process the sensory information allowing you to react quicker than in the past.
3) You have essentially a base reaction speed. This is your reaction speed that tells how long it takes for you to process, digest, and react to a specific situation. For example, say that you're driving and the car in front of you suddenly breaks, hard. This is a good example of your base reaction speed.
4) If you're expecting something to happen, your brain is *already* "processing" that situation so when it occurs you can react faster than your base reaction speed. Think that reaction speed test online where you know that the background is going to change color. This is the faster than your base reaction time.
5) Now, if you're expecting something to happen, and something different doesn't, you hit a problem. Your brain has to stop what it's processing what you were expecting, reprocess the actual situation, and then and THEN react. This is slower than your base reaction time.
So, how do you react quicker? Be used to every situation and know each characters' best options in each situation.
1) When something happens, you take it in using your senses (sight/sound being the two most common ones in brawl. Well, and touch for hitconfirm via rumble). From that point the information gets processed by your brain (not going super detailed about this, but, think of your brain as being flat. Every time you experience and process something you get like a... groove in your brain. Each subsequent time you experience that situation that groove becomes more defined and the data travels quicker). After processing what happened, you get to actually react.
2) The more you're exposed to a specific situation, the quicker your brain will process the sensory information allowing you to react quicker than in the past.
3) You have essentially a base reaction speed. This is your reaction speed that tells how long it takes for you to process, digest, and react to a specific situation. For example, say that you're driving and the car in front of you suddenly breaks, hard. This is a good example of your base reaction speed.
4) If you're expecting something to happen, your brain is *already* "processing" that situation so when it occurs you can react faster than your base reaction speed. Think that reaction speed test online where you know that the background is going to change color. This is the faster than your base reaction time.
5) Now, if you're expecting something to happen, and something different doesn't, you hit a problem. Your brain has to stop what it's processing what you were expecting, reprocess the actual situation, and then and THEN react. This is slower than your base reaction time.
So, how do you react quicker? Be used to every situation and know each characters' best options in each situation.
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
I'm glad i have good base reaction speed
My reaction time is terrible.
I know this from a long history in athletics.
Good thing I read people really well!
I know this from a long history in athletics.
Good thing I read people really well!
SaveMeJebus
Smash Master
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- 4,371
What can Snake do if his opponent rolls behind him while he's camping?
i personally try to bait the roll with a jab cancel, then am able to react and punish with ftilt.
although snake does have a tougher time dealing with rolls than most characters, due to not having a move that hits both sides.
although snake does have a tougher time dealing with rolls than most characters, due to not having a move that hits both sides.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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Turning is always faster than a roll behind you. Unless you whiffed an attack as they roll, there should be no reason you cannot punish them with a pivot grab or some attack by turning around. If anything, you can do the same, but with a roll away from them.
I recall a DDD main abusing there pivot grab somehow by buffering a pivot grab from standing in place. I was wondering if Snake could do something like this as well. This is since our pivot grab range is so much better than our regular grab range.
I recall a DDD main abusing there pivot grab somehow by buffering a pivot grab from standing in place. I was wondering if Snake could do something like this as well. This is since our pivot grab range is so much better than our regular grab range.
TSM ZeRo
Banned via Administration
Frigate Orpheon has a high ceiling? I didn't know that! :O Well, everyday you can learn something new, no?
Thanks for your advices!
I am scared of Halberd mostly because of the low celing (Any mistake in the air, like a well placed grenade or U-Air and Meta Knight will die extremely early) but also because Snake has some cool grenade angles in the "flying" platform. And also, that platform doesn't allow for effective D-Air camping, and having more options in this match up is very helpful.Ban halberd if your scared of dying early but then again you can kill early too ban FD if you can't deal with camping, frigate is a good cp as is yoshis and bf imo
Why do you consider Yoshi's Island a good counterpick? Could you elaborate about that? I'm really curious about it
.I don't really Counterpick Snakes to BattleField, he has a lot of grenade and mortar tricks there, and he can use the platforms to mix up his landing/recovery (And the way you win the Meta Knight vs Snake match up as Meta Knight is to get Snake into the air and deal as much damage as you can, or kill him). And also, a grab on a platform is extremely dangerous. But also, the platforms help Meta Knight to juggle Snake even better, and Meta Knight has some cool/good platform tricks as well. I would love to hear your opinion about how Battlefield is a good Counterpick for Meta Knight vs Snake
.Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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Frigate has a "normal" ceiling height compared to BF, SV, FD, YI (b). I was not trying to imply frigate has a high ceiling.
TSM ZeRo
Banned via Administration
Oh, I see, thanks for that bit of info. But hey, you actually said:
What do you mean? Or I did I not understood something correctly? (Language problems probably, I'm sorry for that as my native language is Spanish, and I'm learning English).