Official Metaknight Discussion

[Tien2500]

Alright fine my apologises overswarm i didn't mean it in that way to insult you, my bad

It gets way too serious in here for a discussion about MK


@ xeylode

Nope sorry brah @_@

Remember two things...

1) Everything gets too serious on the internet.
2) If some people didn't care so much about Brawl the community wouldn't exist.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

@ xeylode

Nope sorry brah @_@

NO!!!

I hate trying to search stuff on SWF. It can take upwards to an hour or so at times for me x.x

 

[Omni]

For Page 53'sies.

Other people can respond to this. I'd rather address everyone with smaller points than one person with huge essays.

OS. We've addressed this in the backroom. Don't act like this is new news.

I'm not responding to excessively large points. I'll be happy to address each point individually, but you don't want to present your argument in that manner. Therefore it doesn't get addressed.

But since you've made a decently sized post I'll be happy to respond:

Omni has made a habit of ignoring every single one of my posts save for my initial one (which he ignored the reply to with a "it's too long"), so I don't really feel he's up to date on what we've discussed.

Addressed in the Backroom. I told you that I do not like going back and forth so my initial post was to be taken as just my view point. I'm also very up to date; just because I don't absorb myself constantly in this thread doesn't mean I'm not reading it. I'm not going to post everytime I see a point that I disagree with because I see too many of them.

After a few dozen pages of seeing the same thing it gets really tedious answering the same questions again.

We've got the data to show that, other than cherry picking tournaments (Omni's favorite past-time)... he's incorrect.

By cherry picking, you mean Omni looking over the past month tournament results i.e. recent tournament results that accurately reflect how our current metagame is shaping...

...as opposed to showing charts and graphs that have data that reflects a metagame over a 2 year time span that loses the weight it holds because it does not take into consideration how much growth has been shown over said years.

We have a grand total of 6, count 'em, 6 players beating the top MKs consistently. 6. Six beating the Nine top MK players.

Of ALL the players in Brawl, when faced against the nine "top" MKs, we have six players beating them. We can't even latch onto hope of a character because they all play different characters. The only overlap is Snake, with Ally and Razer.

Did I mention "consistently"? I mispoke. I meant "more than once".

We have a grand total of 0, count 'it, 0 players beating the top Jigglypuff player consistently. Is that how we're doing this?

We have a grand total of 1, count it, 1 Metaknight with a winning record against ADHD.

What's your point, Overswarm?
9 Top MK players.
6 NON-MK players beat them consistently.
3 of the 9 Top MK players are not beaten consistently.

I'm not surprised by this statistic nor do I see it as "evidence" that proclaims MK needs to be banned. MK is consistently losing to certain non-MK players; you like to call them outliers, I call them players who spent the most time on their character and on the game. Regardless, the absolute fact is that Metaknight is losing consistently at high/mid levels of play. It just may not be happening as often as you like.

Really now Omni, if you're going to ban yourself to stay away from these threads and ignore all my posts, you could at least address them all when you come back with all this new free time. I even linked to some of the big ones in the SBR for you. Not to toot my own horn, but I'm kinda leading the charge as far as data is concerned.

I banned myself because I had a ****load of school work to do, and I was constantly getting IM's and PM's in my inbox about how you created a thread and how unfair of an approach you took and how someone needs to make a new thread up and etc.

However, I am not obligated to go through your extremely long posts and put up with a tit-for-tat line-by-line analysis with you. Been there; done that. It only leads to MK not being banned and the same will happen this time.

And yes, you are leading the "charge" as far as data is concerned. Your point? Your data has different interpretations; your interpretation of the data you have presented is not the absolute interpretation. With that said, this same argument has been addressed by several players in this thread about how data is just that... data.

I hate to break this to you, OS, but "data" is not what's going to ban MK. The data coupled with your interpretation is YOUR reasoning on why YOU believe MK should be banned, but the same does not hold true for everyone else.

I'd also like to add one more thing:


"We shouldn't ban Metaknight because Street Fighter"

is not an argument. If anything, it shows pre-determined bias and a closed mind to the process. I've learned half a dozen characters, compared frame data, invented several ATs from my own testing, invented the character back room for ROB mains hoping to get a conclusion to the MK problem, and have even recently been analyzing the Diddy vs. MK matchup as deeply as I can. I've studied this in and out for a year and a half and have learned everything I could get my hands on and have even recently been sitting down and playing against Mew2King trying to find weaknesses to the character.

Why are you deliberately dumbing down my arguments?

I have used Street Fighter as well as other successful competitive fighting games as a comparative icon in terms of finding the relationship between certain metagames. It would be ignorant to ignore the fighting game community and only focus on Brawl when there is plenty of viable information out there that can help determine how to approach Metaknight. The fact that you keep your eyes focused ONLY on Brawl makes me think you're not looking outside the box of what an actual competitive fighting game is and how issues like these have been addressed in a very similar fashion in very similar communities.

The Street Fighter results, that you continue to brush off, shows a metagame that is currently similar to Brawl's metagame in terms of character dominance... except the character dominance is more. Yet when I bring in these interesting facts and results from other fighting game communities that are successful, I get:

"Brawl isn't SF!" or "Brawl is a way better game!" or crap like that. It's bogus and you know it. There's plenty of information and things we can take from other competitive fighting games. More importantly, when a similar trend occurs here that is similar to those trends that have happened in the past, why wouldn't we examine and compare the two scenarios?

You should at least open yourself up to the possibility that Metaknight should be banned. If you're coming into the argument the same way a preacher comes in saying there shouldn't be kissing in church, do we really need to convince you?

I have, OS.

I came into the debate in the BBR with a neutral standpoint. What did I find? You running another political campaign about how MK needs to be banned. You throwing short stabs of "MK needs to die,". You pretty much being a jerk to everyone and pronouncing how someone is dumb for not seeing things in your perspective when the actuality is that there could be another perspective with equal substance.

When I came into the debate, you were not looking for a solution to the problem: your goal was to get Metaknight banned with any means possible. Everyone agreed when I made that statement.

You think I'm going into this thinking "I want Metaknight banned", but that is untrue. I want Metaknight to not be a problem. If he's banned, he's not a problem. If I found a way to beat him, I'd use it, but there is none. Never has been, nor will there be by any stretch of the imagination. All the data I have accumulated has shown the gap widening, not closing. It only gets worse.

I'm not "thinking"; I know you are. You've made up your mind about Metaknight a long time ago and you're simply doing everything you can think of to make it happen. Kudos for your dedication but your methods haven't been exactly "nice".

You haven't a found a way to beat him. Other players have. How can you suggest there is no way to beat him and there will never be a way when ADHD a year ago was placing Top 5 and now he's winning a national tournament? How can you say it's beyond imagination when it's reality that there are non-MK players consistently besting the top MK's.

However, you choose to ignore this reality and dig yourself deep with data and charts and graphs that make MK looks worse than he actually is. You make things more dramatic then they actually are, and your tactics aren't cool. Arguing with you is like arguing with Inui; you both make great points and can grab awesome stats, but your tunneled vision only allows you to concentrate on one thing. This is the main reason why I don't respond to your posts besides the fact that it's 10 pages long.

See. Look at this ****? I just spent a half hour typing this all out. Now you're telling me to deal with your rebuttal which is going to be 3x as long and then bash me when I won't feel like reupping the text count? Nah, man.

You're the one with something the prove. You post, give ideas, give arguments. I'll tell you what I think about it. You disagree or don't like my view on it? That's fine, but don't expect me to constantly repeat the same thing over and over for the sake of it. 'Cuz I just won't.

 

[Tien2500]

NO!!!

I hate trying to search stuff on SWF. It can take upwards to an hour or so at times for me x.x

Don't worry about it too much. My curiosity has fizzled out.

 

[Spelt]

i troll this thread usually because once again you guys are debating on a Video Game Forum

oh noooooooooooooooo debates about video games?
i guess we should fight about people taking a drink of my soda or having a foot out while someone walks by.
you know ... real life issues.
THINGS THAT ACTUALLY MATTER.
**** gurl dunt u go kissin mah boifren lyke dat u ho.

 

[Allied]

oh noooooooooooooooo debates about video games?
i guess we should fight about people taking a drink of my soda or having a foot out while someone walks by.
you know ... real life issues.
THINGS THAT ACTUALLY MATTER.
**** gurl dunt u go kissin mah boifren lyke dat u ho.

The only reason i say that because

well heres an example

Inui liked me then i had a different opinion on SWF on something stupid like counterpicks or whatever

Inui said straight up he hates me now because of it

i still <3 inui though

btw spelt what did you even say i don't understand LOL

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Hey, Omni, have you ever noticed how your small replys add up to really long posts? Since you end up replying with really long posts as well, why not try making those long posts less daunting by seperating it into sections and replying that way? It wouldn't seem that difficult to do if you are taking time to seperate posts and combine them into one long one as well.

^Random Suggestion is all.

 

[Spelt]

that's slightly different than a discussion about whether or not a character should be banned.

"girl don't you go kissing my boyfriend like that"

 

[Allied]

oh LOL too goodz haha

 

[-Mars-]

Comparing the Street Fighter metagame to anything Brawl related is silly because unlike traditional fighters, in this game there is a way for MK to make himself almost untouchable where he can avoid any and all conflict.

So yea bringing up Street Fighter in these arguments.

 

[Omni]

Spelt. Allied.

Careful with the off-topic posting.

@Xeylode: I may consider that. Thanks.
@Mars: By metagame, we're talking about how a character effects the rest of the cast; not the nitty gritty details of the game.

 

[Allied]

Comparing the Street Fighter metagame to anything Brawl related is silly because unlike traditional fighters, in this game there is a way for MK to make himself almost untouchable where he can avoid any and all conflict.

So yea bringing up Street Fighter in these arguments.

Not really true thats just 1 certain aspect

there are very simlar aspects to both games

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Can someone explain this to me. If you people are trying to constantly bring up discussion and happenings of other games, what does bringing up these other games do? How do they help disprove evidence of banning MK, or so otherwise? I am not really seeing many good correlations between MK in Brawl and the other games. The only correlation I am seeing a lot is how one good character in different game is like MK. He has a large impact on results.

 

[Sorto]

We have a grand total of 6, count 'em, 6 players beating the top MKs consistently. 6. Six beating the Nine top MK players.

So let me just get this straight.
There are 9 top Mk players.
There are 6 top non-Mk players.
These top non-MK players consistently beat the MK players.
That is a total of 15 players be counted for in this top level equation/situation.
Am I expected to believe that 6 is such a small percent of 15 that it is considered an outlier?
Simple division says, that 6/15 is 40%. Mathematics would say that, that percentage is by no means an outlier.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

So let me just get this straight.
There are 9 top Mk players.
There are 6 top non-Mk players.
These top non-MK players consistently beat the MK players.
That is a total of 15 players be counted for in this top level equation/situation.
Am I expected to believe that 6 is such a small percent of 15 that it is considered an outlier?
Simple division says, that 6/15 is 40%. Mathematics would say that, that percentage is by no means an outlier.

I don't know what it is about that monkey avatar, but anyone I see with that particular avatar on Smashboards always ends up revolving around numbers C'est interessant.

 

[HeroMystic]

Wrong, anti-ban is saying, "we need to discuss a criteria and from there we can figure out if MK is banworthy".


Pro-ban has been either unable or unwilling to commit to a long term discuss of the relevant topic.


Even if we're basing it on MK we still need to start by discussing what our criteria is, that is the first step because without a criteria coming to a resolution is impossible.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9470251&postcount=1907

 

[MarKO X]

i picked up sagat once online and i got 5th on a online tournament because i wasn't confident in my zangief and i knew 2 things

if they get close DP
if they are far away Fireball

... got me 5th

is sagat broken, no? lol

I have a funny feeling you would have done better with Ken

Street Fighter is a much different game though. The characters all have relatively the same physics governing them (i.e. Sagat doesn't have 5 jumps or anything) combos work equally well on all characters and characters have access to the same techs. Breaking through Sagat's defenses is a ***** but if you could do it a few times you can have him KOed. You get through MK's defense and he resets so you have to break through again.

I might not have explained that right but the point I was trying to make is that SF4 is too different to compare.

Just like many characters have access to planking but only few are good at it, in SF4, all characters have access to FADC (focus attack dash cancelling), but some characters clearly use it better. Combos are generally executed the same on all characters, but they don't have the same effect because characters will have more or less life than others. (Sagat has 1100 "hit points," 100 more than the average, so yeah).

It's really not that different.

ownage in pale green

wow. just... wow.

Comparing the Street Fighter metagame to anything Brawl related is silly because unlike traditional fighters, in this game there is a way for MK to make himself almost untouchable where he can avoid any and all conflict.

So yea bringing up Street Fighter in these arguments.

Guess you've never played a good Akuma turtle in SF4.

 

[Kuraudo]

If MK gets the foot put down on him for good, and by that, I mean if he doesn't get banned and it's final,

I might make the switch. lol

 

[etecoon]

the amount of MK mains that mained him before the tier list came out is minuscule at best.
not even M2K would be in that list.

so? there's nothing wrong with choosing the best tools available to win, the idea that people who look for the best character and play them are evil joyless *******s is a scrubby mentality that really needs to be dropped.

 

[Tien2500]

Just like many characters have access to planking but only few are good at it, in SF4, all characters have access to FADC (focus attack dash cancelling), but some characters clearly use it better. Combos are generally executed the same on all characters, but they don't have the same effect because characters will have more or less life than others. (Sagat has 1100 "hit points," 100 more than the average, so yeah).

It's really not that different.

There are some differences between characters in SF4 but not to the degree in brawl. How does the range between Sagat and Sakura (or whoever has the least life) compare to the difference in survivability between Jiggly and D3? All characters in SF4 have one jump and to my knowledge fall at close to if not the same speed. MK has five jumps whereas some characters have three, some two, and fallspeeds are all across the boards. There are a few characters that make extensive use of disjointed hitboxes. Wario can take out a freaking bike and ride it across the stage. Diddy spawns items that you can throw at and trip people. Combos that work on one character will not work at all on another. ZSS starts with pieces of armor. Fox has a projectile that doesn' t have hitstun people. Wario has a move that autocharges. Some characters can glide. One can do it twice. Grab range is different for each character (this may also be the case in SF4 haven't played in a while). The ICs are TWO CHARACTERS! Pokemon Trainer and Sheik swtich throughout matches. Squirtle and Mario have water based moves. Jigglypuff dies upon a shield break. Kirby swallows people and takes their powers. Each character reacts differently to being hit (because of weight). Certain characters can be chaingrabbed. Peach randomly pulls up items. Peach has a useless airdodge. Yoshi can't do anything out of his shield. Certain characters have better shields than others (due to their size mainly).

Of course there are some ways in which the sf characters differ too. Gouken can counter, Akuma has an air fireball, Sagat has two versions of his fireball, Chunli can wall jump etc. But the characters don't vary in their basic functionality nearly as much as Brawl characters.

Tell me of two characters in SF4 who vary as much as Snake and the ICs? Or that vary as much as Wario and Olimar?

And of course when you have so many characters that vary so much you're likely going to see at least one character who has access to strategies that the others can't match.

I want to play SF4 now...

 

[MarKO X]

There are some differences between characters in SF4 but not to the degree in brawl. How does the range between Sagat and Sakura (or whoever has the least life) compare to the difference in survivability between Jiggly and D3?

Sagat and Zangief's life vs. Seth and El Fuerte's life is pretty ridiculously noticeable, especially if you work your *** off with Seth/Fuerte to not get hit because you have a lower life bar, only to get rocked with an Ultra that takes up 60-75% of the visible life that you can see. While DDD vs Jiggs survivability is longer in Brawl than in Street Fighter because it's brawl, the proportions between the two are probably pretty solid.

All characters in SF4 have one jump and to my knowledge fall at close to if not the same speed.

Dhalsim does not have close to the same jump speed as Blanka.
While the rest of the cast may have similar jump speeds, they do differ by a certain amount of frames, and that can be the difference between a safe jump against an opponent on wake up and you eating a wake up DP > FADC > Ultra.

MK has five jumps whereas some characters have three, some two, and fallspeeds are all across the boards. There are a few characters that make extensive use of disjointed hitboxes. Wario can take out a freaking bike and ride it across the stage. Diddy spawns items that you can throw at and trip people.

Well, yeah, this is Brawl. That is something else, I will agree.

Combos that work on one character will not work at all on another.

Certain combos/attacks don't work on certain characters due to height difference fyi. of course, in general, it's not on the same extent as brawl.

ZSS starts with pieces of armor. Fox has a projectile that doesn' t have hitstun people. Wario has a move that autocharges. Some characters can glide. One can do it twice. Grab range is different for each character (this may also be the case in SF4 haven't played in a while). The ICs are TWO CHARACTERS! Pokemon Trainer and Sheik swtich throughout matches. Squirtle and Mario have water based moves. Jigglypuff dies upon a shield break. Kirby swallows people and takes their powers. Each character reacts differently to being hit (because of weight). Certain characters can be chaingrabbed. Peach randomly pulls up items. Peach has a useless airdodge. Yoshi can't do anything out of his shield. Certain characters have better shields than others (due to their size mainly).

well, yeah... it's Brawl. I know I'm repeating myself, but there just isn't anything to argue there. And yes, there is defintiely a difference in grab ranges in Street Fighter games. Take Zangief vs. Cammy as a prime example (although I'm not sure if cammy's grab range is the worse, but it definitely pales in comparison to gief's)

Of course there are some ways in which the sf characters differ too. Gouken can counter, Akuma has an air fireball, Sagat has two versions of his fireball, Chunli can wall jump etc. But the characters don't vary in their basic functionality nearly as much as Brawl characters.

Tell me of two characters in SF4 who vary as much as Snake and the ICs? Or that vary as much as Wario and Olimar?

Dhalsim and Cammy
C.Viper and Chun Li
Sagat and El Fuerte
E.Honda and Dan
Rufus and... well, pick someone.

And of course when you have so many characters that vary so much you're likely going to see at least one character who has access to strategies that the others can't match.

I want to play SF4 now...

I dunno... I guess because I've actually gone and played Street Fighter games competitively (not SF4 tho for varying reasons, and sorry if I sound elitist), I see parallels between the two franchises. While Brawl's difference in characters is easier to see because it's more visual (i.e. everything you've said and then some), in SF it's more about the technical aspects and how each character can or cannot use them to their advantage. Things like FADC, Kara cancels, link combos, etc. While the naked and/or untrained eye may not be able to see it, those little tech things within the game make the feel of the characters very, very different, especially at a higher level of play.

 

[Allied]

Can someone explain this to me. If you people are trying to constantly bring up discussion and happenings of other games, what does bringing up these other games do? How do they help disprove evidence of banning MK, or so otherwise? I am not really seeing many good correlations between MK in Brawl and the other games. The only correlation I am seeing a lot is how one good character in different game is like MK. He has a large impact on results.

Other games have only been brought up like 2 times haha and each time they are just used to show the silmilarity of how that community is usually dealing with the same problems as the brawl community and our community just needs to man up

I have a funny feeling you would have done better with Ken


Just like many characters have access to planking but only few are good at it, in SF4, all characters have access to FADC (focus attack dash cancelling), but some characters clearly use it better. Combos are generally executed the same on all characters, but they don't have the same effect because characters will have more or less life than others. (Sagat has 1100 "hit points," 100 more than the average, so yeah).

It's really not that different.



wow. just... wow.



Guess you've never played a good Akuma turtle in SF4.

LOL <3 that video

so? there's nothing wrong with choosing the best tools available to win, the idea that people who look for the best character and play them are evil joyless *******s is a scrubby mentality that really needs to be dropped.

Yeah etecoon but then again when money is on the line thats the mentality that usually wins

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

I co-main MK and think he is bannable if there in no way to stop him from timing people out the way he does.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Here's a novel idea, instead of saying we need a majority to get MK banned in a vote....

How about, we have a vote and if we have a majority, Mk doesn't get banned. =)

Oh wait... This has happened 3 times. Whoops.

Brawl's competitive community dwarfs that of other fighting games; why would we want to base our decisions on those of inferior communities?

Also: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html

Thank you.

These "inferior" fighting games are sponsored by MLG.
These "inferior" fighting games have a publisher that reaches out to their players and forums for advice and suggestions.
These "inferior" fighting games are the most played fighting video games in Japan (population: 1 zillion).

But yeah, there's no reason for us to be using successful fighting games as a comparative example in our attempts to keep a successful game. Silly me.

Citation needed on that last one. The first two don't matter; if "Super Teletubbies Smackdown" was sponsored by MLG and the publisher payed attention to the players, would it matter? Of course not.

No, I've been saying forever that tournament results in their current form don't measure character power in the metagame, because they don't take into account the size of the population in question, so it doesn't show a correlation between picking a character and winning.


They tell something else useful, current centralization.



Certain characters are better then others, better then random odds of winning a tournament =/= bannable.



With what evidence? If there were 50x the number of MKs entering pound 4 then any other character, even with totally random selection it would probabilistically produce similar results.


That's why we have statistics, to relate raw numbers to populations.



Some people believe we are... but the fact is the only way to reach a truly balanced game is ban everyone except MK, or any other random character.



Wrong, anti-ban is saying, "we need to discuss a criteria and from there we can figure out if MK is banworthy".


Pro-ban has been either unable or unwilling to commit to a long term discuss of the relevant topic.


Even if we're basing it on MK we still need to start by discussing what our criteria is, that is the first step because without a criteria coming to a resolution is impossible.

How about this. Metaknight, without external rules, shuts down half of the viable cast on his own. (External rules including Planking, but not Stalling and Scrooging; IDC is banned either way because it's a glitch). Is this an agreeable condition for both sides? I think it isn't exactly unreasonable.

 

[Browny]

Citation needed on that last one. The first two don't matter; if "Super Teletubbies Smackdown" was sponsored by MLG and the publisher payed attention to the players, would it matter? Of course not.

wtf is this? he cites REAL examples and you attempt to counter with a ridiculous hypothetical situation which will never exist.

 

[Trillest]

So let me just get this straight.
There are 9 top Mk players.
There are 6 top non-Mk players.
These top non-MK players consistently beat the MK players.
That is a total of 15 players be counted for in this top level equation/situation.
Am I expected to believe that 6 is such a small percent of 15 that it is considered an outlier?
Simple division says, that 6/15 is 40%. Mathematics would say that, that percentage is by no means an outlier.

Are all those 6 playing the same character ? No they are not so comparatively mk is a giant outlier i mean if 2 play the same character that consistently beat mks that characters percentage is 13.33% now considering the other characters at 6.33%, 40% kinda looks like an outlier to me

^^

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

wtf is this? he cites REAL examples and you attempt to counter with a ridiculous hypothetical situation which will never exist.

So? I don't give two ****s if a game is sponsored by MLG. I hear from a SF player that the SF circuit is terribly small (especially compared to Brawl and Melee), and I wonder if that MLG sponsorship is worth that much.

 

[MarKO X]

So? I don't give two ****s if a game is sponsored by MLG. I hear from a SF player that the SF circuit is terribly small (especially compared to Brawl and Melee), and I wonder if that MLG sponsorship is worth that much.

where does said SF player live?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Read back in the thread. Not 100% sure. I believe the states.

 

[Tristan_win]

I think realistically there's only two things that could lead to a meta knight globe ban at this point.

1. We discover something new that multiple characters can use but will ultimately make meta knight evenish match up greater in his favor. If meta knight could I dare say magically go from 50/50 to 60/40 or better with snake, diddy, falco and ice climbers I have a feeling a ban would follow.

2. MLG start to sponsored Brawl at their event but there's a no meta knight rule. Greed would cure greed if you will and then a domino effect would happen as people would want to host tourney in MLG format.

So noteworthy changes in matches to a higher power (MLG or SWF) banning him.

 

[etecoon]

I think it could happen in a grass roots fashion where it simply spreads but TO's that are adamant about MK needing to be banned need to man up and ban him at their events, none of this "we think he should be banned but we're waiting for the SBR's approval". if MK banned tournaments become the norm there will be more pressure to ban him at any tournament where he isn't banned, it can snowball. over half the community wants this and a lot of those who think he shouldn't be banned probably wouldn't mind it that much either, I personally don't think he needs to be banned but I don't really care if it happens.

I really think this is something that pro-ban should be going after because I really don't see the 2/3rds SBR majority ever happening

 

[rvkevin]

If meta knight could I dare say magically go from 50/50 to 60/40 or better with snake, diddy, falco and ice climbers I have a feeling a ban would follow.

Would he? He would still be beatable so he wouldn't be "broken". Over centralization is an undefined term that is indistinguishable from centralization thus far, so we couldn't determine if he was worthy of a ban in that sense. Would anti-ban proponents switch if MK was 60-40 with the entire cast? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem they would. But if they do, what reason would be used to change their stance?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Would be cool but thats too crazy to do because all regions TO's would have to comply and all players and i already know for a fact it would start off as a negative impact because so many MK mains would be most likey quitting (at least NY/NJ would quit LOL)

We only have like.........one person that mains meta in NY. NY is a muti-character state. We got a lil of everything here.

 

[HeroMystic]

How about this. Metaknight, without external rules, shuts down half of the viable cast on his own. (External rules including Planking, but not Stalling and Scrooging; IDC is banned either way because it's a glitch). Is this an agreeable condition for both sides? I think it isn't exactly unreasonable.

People need to stop ignoring this.

 

[solecalibur]

People need to stop ignoring this.

Not everyone wants to read 141 pages , Most people here just post there argument , argue for a bit then leave not read / dissect every word that was spoken in this thread, and if you haven't noticed SBR hasn't been taking this seriously which is disappointing

inb4metaknight main corrects me

 

[etecoon]

if you haven't noticed SBR hasn't been taking this seriously which is disappointing

they said that they weren't going to touch the issue for another year at least because they'd already had to deal with it repeatedly with the same result every time. why would this surprise anyone?

 

[solecalibur]

they said that they weren't going to touch the issue for another year at least because they'd already had to deal with it repeatedly with the same result every time. why would this surprise anyone?

inb4metaknight main corrects me

Because we spawned 141 pages of discussion (not including other threads) in a matter of a week

 

[HeroMystic]

Not everyone wants to read 141 pages , Most people here just post there argument , argue for a bit then leave not read / dissect every word that was spoken in this thread, and if you haven't noticed SBR hasn't been taking this seriously which is disappointing

inb4metaknight main corrects me

You don't need to considering I posted the link two pages ago.

No one gives a **** about the SBR. They don't make the rules, just a guideline. The rules come from us, not them.

If you're arguing just to argue (not saying you in particular), that means you're not here to find a solution, which is why this thread is just a giant cluster**** that'll never get resolved until something breaks. That means stop posting.

If the thread is going to continue it needs to at least be productive, which is hasn't ever since page 1.

And since it's a new page: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9470251&postcount=1907

 

[RDK]

People need to stop ignoring this.

Dude. Why is your random AIM conversation relevant to this discussion at all?

 

[etecoon]

Because we spawned 141 pages of discussion (not including other threads) in a matter of a week

so? this has always been a hot topic, that doesn't change anything.