Official Metaknight Discussion

[rPSIvysaur]

Easiest character to use effectively would probably be better phrased.

 

[Akaku94]

Kirbeh's easy enough, and I almost wish he was harder... we kirby mains aren't as rare as we used to be... but MK isn't far behind. The difference is that while both are easy to learn, Kirby is harder to master, while MK's techs are pretty simple. Another major difference is that to compete with Kirby, you have to devote a lot of time and energy to Kirby-specific traits, while MK is easy enough to "pick up and play" and still be able to dominate most of the cast.

 

[Hylian]

Kirbeh's easy enough, and I almost wish he was harder... we kirby mains aren't as rare as we used to be... but MK isn't far behind. The difference is that while both are easy to learn, Kirby is harder to master, while MK's techs are pretty simple. Another major difference is that to compete with Kirby, you have to devote a lot of time and energy to Kirby-specific traits, while MK is easy enough to "pick up and play" and still be able to dominate most of the cast.

But that's not true at all .


Who are these people picking up MK and dominating the cast at tournaments?


Anyone? Yes, top players can pick up MK and do well. THEY ARE TOP PLAYERS. Random people who switch from their main to MK are not going to see instant success and it's annoying that it's implied that happens all the time when it's pretty much never happened.

 

[rathy Aro]

Man the **** up!

That's true of almost any character. Melee is just harder than brawl in general. In comparison though yeah I think MK is harder to play and compete on a professional level with. Fox is harder because the game is harder lol.

You gave a reason as to why what I say is right (although u neglect that fox is a fast faller that gets punished harder than most of the cast by all of the cast for simple mistakes). Therefore I'm still right.

Also, when MK miss-spaces something against me he dies . Relying on his moveset isn't going to help you that much against top players. You have to understand a lot of match-ups and learn what people are going to punish you for etc etc it takes time and experience against good players.

That's cute. Pretending like your consistent with your cgs.

Why is this even relevant discussion? Even one of the mega mods is contributing to the off topic bs in this thread. Seriously, make this thread more organized or close it. Or you could make this the official troll thread. I think we could use one of those.

 

[Inui]

Huh... that is really weird... We actually proved that metaknight is broken beyond even Akuma.

Ew no. How about we turn those LGLs off and you tell me again after 1 second of tornado, 3 seconds of running to the edge, and 7:59:56 of frame perfect planking?

Frame-perfect arguments?

 

[etecoon]

Why is this even relevant discussion? Even one of the mega mods is contributing to the off topic bs in this thread. Seriously, make this thread more organized or close it. Or you could make this the official troll thread. I think we could use one of those.

where the **** have you been

this has been the official troll thread forever lol

 

[OverLade]

I just really disagree with MK being the easiest character to use.

Kirby?

This depends on whether we're talking about on a basic superficial level or an actual viable tournament level. Kirby is simpler, but a basic MK would still be more effective than a well understood kirby at the same level.

But that's not true at all .


Who are these people picking up MK and dominating the cast at tournaments?


Anyone? Yes, top players can pick up MK and do well. THEY ARE TOP PLAYERS. Random people who switch from their main to MK are not going to see instant success and it's annoying that it's implied that happens all the time when it's pretty much never happened.

If I didn't want to namedrop and offend people I could name instances where "not top players" have used MK (even if only for a game/set) to influence their placing in tournament where they otherwise wouldn't have defeated someone. You can probably find these all the time, just look at tourney results where players have MK after their main but needed him to win a certain matchup or against a certain player. Or when players switch to MK after losing with their main, even if they've been using their main longer, MK is just better.

 

[Hylian]

Man the **** up!

You gave a reason as to why what I say is right (although u neglect that fox is a fast faller that gets punished harder than most of the cast by all of the cast for simple mistakes). Therefore I'm still right.

... Fast fallers are easier for certain characters to combo, not all. Floaty characters like peach are combo fodder for fox/marth/falcon etc while fast fallers require you to read techs and DI unless you have a chaingrab or are falco.

That's cute. Pretending like your consistent with your cgs.

Only reason I'm not consistent is because I don't play very often. Before my last tournament I practiced some and only dropped one chaingrab the entire tournament.

Why is this even relevant discussion? Even one of the mega mods is contributing to the off topic bs in this thread. Seriously, make this thread more organized or close it. Or you could make this the official troll thread. I think we could use one of those.

I didn't even want to make this thread. But otherwise mk topics keep popping up everywhere :/.

This depends on whether we're talking about on a basic superficial level or an actual viable tournament level. Kirby is simpler, but a basic MK would still be more effective than a well understood kirby at the same level.



If I didn't want to namedrop and offend people I could name instances where "not top players" have used MK (even if only for a game/set) to influence their placing in tournament where they otherwise wouldn't have defeated someone. You can probably find these all the time, just look at tourney results where players have MK after their main but needed him to win a certain matchup or against a certain player. Or when players switch to MK after losing with their main, even if they've been using their main longer, MK is just better.

And you don't think this happens with other characters? Cause I've seen it happen several times. Also, I've had quite a few MK mains switch away from mk to snake or another character after playing me in tournament lol.


Edit:

This is kind of off topic but I found it funny. This happened about 10 seconds ago:

 

[OverLade]

And you don't think this happens with other characters? Cause I've seen it happen several times. Also, I've had quite a few MK mains switch away from mk to snake or another character after playing me in tournament lol.

It does, but not to the same extent. Sure in your case, but you use ice climbers which is going to create "not usual" situations due to the nature of the matchup. I could probably prove it happens more with MK simply because more people use MK (It could also be argued that more people use MK for that reason). I'm sure someone could cook up the number of top players that sub MK in comparison to every other character rather easily using the player ranking chart, and it probably doesn't include everyone who uses MK on an occasional basis.

 

[giuocob]

But that's not true at all .


Who are these people picking up MK and dominating the cast at tournaments?


Anyone? Yes, top players can pick up MK and do well. THEY ARE TOP PLAYERS. Random people who switch from their main to MK are not going to see instant success and it's annoying that it's implied that happens all the time when it's pretty much never happened.

It doesn't matter. If Ally can put years into getting good at Snake and a few weeks into learning MK and be just as good with both characters, there's a serious problem.

 

[rathy Aro]

... Fast fallers are easier for certain characters to combo, not all. Floaty characters like peach are combo fodder for fox/marth/falcon etc while fast fallers require you to read techs and DI unless you have a chaingrab or are falco.

I don't know anything about melee outside of marth/sheik/fox/falco/falcon. lol

Only reason I'm not consistent is because I don't play very often. Before my last tournament I practiced some and only dropped one chaingrab the entire tournament.

LMAO!! I was just grasping at straws. XD I didn't even know that.

Dang, my trollin's on that other ****. XD

I didn't even want to make this thread. But otherwise mk topics keep popping up everywhere :/.

I could have sworn I posted in this thread about how someone should lead the discussion going on in here. But I don't see it anymore... does this thread actually swallow useful posts? Anyway I thought I suggested that we should have weekly discussions about different popular points in this argument. Then we can have summaries put in the OP and ratios giving the general idea of how many people agree and disagree. Similar to matchup discussions.

or this can just be a good thread for me to practice my trolling. I am getting rusty.

 

[Hylian]

It does, but not to the same extent. Sure in your case, but you use ice climbers which is going to create "not usual" situations due to the nature of the matchup. I could probably prove it happens more with MK simply because more people use MK (It could also be argued that more people use MK for that reason). I'm sure someone could cook up the number of top players that sub MK in comparison to every other character rather easily using the player ranking chart, and it probably doesn't include everyone who uses MK on an occasional basis.

Fair enough.

I just dislike all theorycrafting about mk then going to tournaments and pretty much never seeing it or seeing the opposite of what people are saying heh.

 

[Hylian]

It doesn't matter. If Ally can put years into getting good at Snake and a few weeks into learning MK and be just as good with both characters, there's a serious problem.

Yeah, good thing that hasn't happened huh?

I don't know anything about melee outside of marth/sheik/fox/falco/falcon. lol

lol I noticed

LMAO!! I was just grasping at straws. XD I didn't even know that.

Dang, my trollin's on that other ****. XD

I know, it's more fun playing along. I'm used to doing it on gamefaqs not here though lol.

I could have sworn I posted in this thread about how someone should lead the discussion going on in here. But I don't see it anymore... does this thread actually swallow useful posts? Anyway I thought I suggested that we should have weekly discussions about different popular points in this argument. Then we can have summaries put in the OP and ratios giving the general idea of how many people agree and disagree. Similar to matchup discussions.

or this can just be a good thread for me to practice my trolling. I am getting rusty.

I'll think of something.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

It doesn't matter. If Ally can put years into getting good at Snake and a few weeks into learning MK and be just as good with both characters, there's a serious problem.

It doesn't matter. If Ally can put years into getting good at Snake and a while on Captain Falcon and be just as good with both characters, there's a serious problem.

 

[Judo777]

Well i know we gonna get some name searches now but OS started using MK and does better than he used to (LOL at people thinking he hasn't improved from before). Um the 1 and only time i pocket MKed a very good kirby in our state i won by a decent margin (oh btw I never play MK) I think a pikachu player in our state came dangerously close to beating the number 1 player in our state by picking MK like 2 weeks ago who he never normally plays with. It happens pretty often. I get pocket Mked all the time.

But i mean the only thing we can really go for in here is a temp ban but i think alot of people agree we should wait for mlg so i mean what else is there to talk about (although i have a feeling after MLG anti-ban STILL wont want a temp-ban)

 

[Chuee]

lol you most likely dont play melee marth jigg's and falco counter him not hard but they do.

All are 50-50 even MU's.

He doesn't have "counters" but at least he has bad and/or even matchups. Is that really so much to ask for from mk?

He has 3 even MU's. No "bad" MU's.

 

[Crow!]

I would suggest that the OP link to a number of the significant posts within the thread. Needing to relink to my links post every time a new person enters the discussion is annoying, but the bigger issue is: who knows how many people there are who don't post and therefore simply cannot locate the useful posts amid the storm that is this thread? And my links post is probably slightly outdated by now, too...

 

[Judo777]

All are 50-50 even MU's.


He has 3 even MU's. No "bad" MU's.

But none of which are 50-50 also fox and or jiggs doesnt have 3 or 4 autowin stages so they arent really the same now are they?

 

[Chuee]

Actually they are 50-50, unless melee players consider 60-40 slight advantage.

 

[Judo777]

Actually they are 50-50, unless melee players consider 60-40 slight advantage.

No i mean the melee character are 50-50 and MK doesnt have any 50-50 they are all 55-45 or better.

 

[Kitamerby]

MK can't be justice cause hes not on Captain Falcons team at all times and Captain Falcon's ally is justice!

Ally's Captain Falcon lost to Meniel's Ike. gg


Anyways, Fox does have slightly bad matchups, they're just stage specific.

He also has stages that can hinder him a bit; see Brinstar.

 

[rathy Aro]

All are 50-50 even MU's.


He has 3 even MU's. No "bad" MU's.

I said and/or. Anyway some people think that falco is bad for fox. Some ppl think marth is bad for fox too (I think its even personally).

edit: Crow should be made a mod of this thread. And the anti ban mod can be..... Inui!

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Not to mention the fact that playing Fox at full potential for an entire tournament would make Michael Phelp's arms fall off.

MK is nowhere close to comparable.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

The game would not be amazing with him gone, most of the other best characters are just camping and chain grabbing. There needs to be less gay stages on. I voted against Rainbow, Brinstar, Norfair, and Green Greens being counterpick stages, but they put them all on anyways.

I agree with this except for the stages part.
Might as well keep them in for the sake of variety.

Don't believe me about the game not being amazing without him gone? Well watch this match.
A clip of Brawl without MK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QijsuAnngSY

Exaggeration I know, but something to consider.

Also, I'm neutral.

 

[Judo777]

I agree with this except for the stages part.
Might as well keep them in for the sake of variety.

Don't believe me about the game not being amazing without him gone? Well watch this match.
A clip of Brawl without MK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QijsuAnngSY

Exaggeration I know, but something to consider.

Also, I'm neutral.

But thats also japan and japanese player are so campy its insane there is a reason pit is so high on their tier list.

 

[Raziek]

But thats also japan and japanese player are so campy its insane there is a reason pit is so high on their tier list.

This.

10this

 

[SwastikaPyle]

I agree with this except for the stages part.
Might as well keep them in for the sake of variety.

Don't believe me about the game not being amazing without him gone? Well watch this match.
A clip of Brawl without MK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QijsuAnngSY

Exaggeration I know, but something to consider.

Also, I'm neutral.

No, it's not something to consider, and it's foolish for you to even post that.

That was one fight. One fight. From a year and a half ago. By players who aren't even from America and has since (to my knowledge) never been replicated at any finals in any tourney.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

But thats also japan and japanese player are so campy its insane there is a reason pit is so high on their tier list.

Fair enough.
Would this also explain why Fox is high over there too?

 

[Judo777]

Fair enough.
Would this also explain why Fox is high over there too?

probably any character with a reflector shield is probably high because they cant be camped lol

 

[Thinkaman]

Believe it or not you can't have mediocre spacing with MK and do well, people will destroy you lol.

This. I'm kinda baffled by all these remarks about how supposedly easy MK is to play or pick up. It just doesn't match reality. He's not super exotic or complex, but learning MK isn't something you can do in a day. MK has great tools, but that there's a lot to using them; that's what separates M2K from the kid down the street who thinks he's M2K.

 

[Inui]

If you randomly pick up MK and try to beat good players, you will be destroyed.

 

[PottyJokes]

Fox is high on japanese tier list because he does well vs Snake and MK which are abundant in japan.

 

[Tien2500]

Fox is high on japanese tier list because he does well vs Snake and MK which are abundant in japan.

Errr... then why wouldn't he do well he're? They're still pretty abundant.

 

[PottyJokes]

i don't know man, maybe we have different playstyles and stuff. maybe their foxes are just better than ours? we'll never know unless we play them

 

[Judo777]

nah man its probably closer to what i said cause if MK's were THAT abundant in japan then pit probably wouldnt be so high. They also wouldnt have to make so many rules for planking pits either.

 

[Inui]

Ya'll are saying some pretty whack stuff...

 

[PottyJokes]

hey im just passing on information i've gotten from michael hey (who visited and played with top japanplayers over last summer) i don't know whether what he says is true or not.

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

i don't know man, maybe we have different playstyles and stuff. maybe their foxes are just better than ours? we'll never know unless we play them

or maybe because the japanese fox's dont have to deal with stupid lol match ups (pika/shiek/ice) as much as we do >.>

 

[OverLade]

Given how good TKD is over here, it's not impossible that they have several foxes with the same idea (explaining his placement on the tier list).

 

[AllyKnight]

Hylian, he is right, my MK is prob already top ****, I just dont know much about the character or weird *** chars. I'd still beat most players other than M2K in the Ditto... and Vex's bowser LOL.