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Official Metaknight Discussion
- Thread starter Hylian
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Overswarm
is laughing at you
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Gnes
Smash Master
decent mks do not lose to falcon...
Overswarm
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HK Donut of the Blue Fire
Smash Ace
I giggled like a school girl reading this :>
Gnes
Smash Master
Hmm...i have conflicting views....
for one, i can beat mk, and i'm confident that i can beat pretty much any mk that crosses my path(cept one...ugh), but i've seen first hand that plenty of the strategies that he can implement simply have no answer. And im not talking about scrooging, planking, but simple tactics that any mk could emulate if they had the patience.(not that planking and scrooging cant be emulated by any mk). So i guess im right in the middle, but essentially more pro-ban than anti-ban(would vote yes in the poll lol). I could explain more, but im at work right now
Yeah honestly I dunno, at this point I might just use MK for people that I can't gimmick out with Wario, or who know the Wario matchup really well. I'm not that good at the MK ditto, but I find matchups like MK vs Snake or MK vs Diddy actually pretty easy despite not using MK against really good mains of those characters often. Like IDK I felt more confident using my garbage MK against Gnes, than I did using Wario, which says A LOT, at least for me. That and knowing Razer won't MM me cause I'll just outcamp him with MK lol (little kid is smart, he knows I would plank him/camp him out).
I dunno, I used to feel pretty neutral about it, but MK just seems like a much easier, and quite more effective character to use and win with than anyone else. Which is fine, and to be expected for a game, for a character to be the best/easiest to use and win with. But the margin I feel he outclasses the other characters... IDK I honestly think he really is on a pedestal all on his own. Hands down I think he's bannable without rules put in place to restrict him, like anti planking/LGL/anti scrooging. I feel that a lot of times, people put rules over him in attempts to keep him in the game, and then won't acknowledge that the character is so powerful that he warrants these rules being put into play in the first place.
I can accept someone telling me "Hey, MK is bannable obviously, but I think the best solution is to try and limit him reasonably and keep him in the game because I think this is the best path to take", but I CANNOT STAND people telling me "Hey bro, MK sucks, he can't win a National anymore. Everyone already knows the matchup by now, he's not even the best in the game. OH HEY, DON'T FORGET TO ADD A LEDGE GRAB LIMIT BRO! DON'T FORGET TO NOT LET PEOPLE GO UNDER STAGES BRO!" despite it being painfully obvious that people put rules like that in place almost unanimously because of MK being good enough to warrant a rule in the first place lol. I think that if you can't accept, or don't believe that MK is the best by a pretty wide margin, that you shouldn't be arguing for rules to limit him. Why fix it, if it isn't broke?
I dunno, I used to feel pretty neutral about it, but MK just seems like a much easier, and quite more effective character to use and win with than anyone else. Which is fine, and to be expected for a game, for a character to be the best/easiest to use and win with. But the margin I feel he outclasses the other characters... IDK I honestly think he really is on a pedestal all on his own. Hands down I think he's bannable without rules put in place to restrict him, like anti planking/LGL/anti scrooging. I feel that a lot of times, people put rules over him in attempts to keep him in the game, and then won't acknowledge that the character is so powerful that he warrants these rules being put into play in the first place.
I can accept someone telling me "Hey, MK is bannable obviously, but I think the best solution is to try and limit him reasonably and keep him in the game because I think this is the best path to take", but I CANNOT STAND people telling me "Hey bro, MK sucks, he can't win a National anymore. Everyone already knows the matchup by now, he's not even the best in the game. OH HEY, DON'T FORGET TO ADD A LEDGE GRAB LIMIT BRO! DON'T FORGET TO NOT LET PEOPLE GO UNDER STAGES BRO!" despite it being painfully obvious that people put rules like that in place almost unanimously because of MK being good enough to warrant a rule in the first place lol. I think that if you can't accept, or don't believe that MK is the best by a pretty wide margin, that you shouldn't be arguing for rules to limit him. Why fix it, if it isn't broke?
Zwarm
Smash Hero
As far as I remember, Ally used CF for the first 4 games, while Lain used IC's on neutrals and MK on counterpicks. When they were 2-2, Ally finally switched to Snake and won the tournament.
Is it just because I'm from the midwest or what? I'm the best MK in a 6 hour radius, and I can't make it out of pools.
NO MKs win here. Not even M2K.
I mean I know he is the best character. I just feel like a ban worthy character should take the top 3 spots at the majority of national tournaments. Instead, MK almost never wins nats. If it wasn't for M2K, MK wouldn't be in the top 3 at nats.
NO MKs win here. Not even M2K.
I mean I know he is the best character. I just feel like a ban worthy character should take the top 3 spots at the majority of national tournaments. Instead, MK almost never wins nats. If it wasn't for M2K, MK wouldn't be in the top 3 at nats.
Overswarm
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Zozefup, I hate to break it to you, but you're not even good. There are no good d3s in my area, but that doesn't mean d3 is a bad character. You're looking for evidence in the wrong places; zoom out and look at the US.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
Except that wasn't it at all. What he said was that SMASH wasn't fun anymore for him, that he was growing tired of being furstrated with both Melee and Brawl.
Zwarm
Smash Hero
Umm, dude. You've made it out of pools in every tournament I've seen you in. You argue with a Ganon main about how you outplace him all the time when he usually places around 13/17th. You wouldn't be on the IL PR if you didn't make it out of pools.
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
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IDK. IL is pretty desperate for players now that 2-3 of the players on the PR list quit or are going to quit soon.
Zwarm
Smash Hero
Yea I know, but it's still just the point, he shouldn't be on there if he never made it out of pools.
Probably because he decided to make it a main source of income?
Yeah, that'd be smart.
Overswarm
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I did it!
The trick is to take a % of your winnings out based on your average winnings over a 3 month span (assuming there is no downward trend) so that the % taken out should pay for 80% of your monthly expenses each month. This means the other 20% of your monthly expenses are paid out of "spending money" that you can set aside as you need to, and the amount set aside increases or decreases based on the amount you need (so variable free money, but static "saved" money).
This allows your actual expenses to be paid for reliably, but makes your actual lifestyle a variable. I live cheaply regardless of my income, so this wasn't a problem for me.
If you can't find a % of an average of winnings in a 3 month span that can reliably pay for 80% of your bills (or the tournament number decreases as time goes on), don't try it.
I just recently had to go to an ATM for the first time after using only smash money (gas was paid for straight out of bank account, as I consider that a standard monthly expense), but this was due to my girlfriend deciding she wanted a $500 date -_-;;
Dark 3nergy
Smash Hero
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That kid doesnt even know how to manage his money properly[see his AiB blogs]. I'm surprised hes still physically alive and able to travel if only thanks to the smash community
HelpR
Smash Ace
>>
MK is oversaturated really depending on your area. Some areas barely have MK, however... some areas have nothing but MK.
Also, as far as the top 3 in national tourneys are concerned, there are ALOT of other MKs in the top 16 in most national tourneys, so it's likely if M2K wasnt there, another MK would take his spot. If you want an idea of the oversaturation in brawl, look in the top 16/32 in each large tourney, the top 3 is a broken measurement because it's almost always the same 2 or 3 people.
people like Ally and ADHD are just incredible snake and diddy respectively, which makes them more of the exception rather then the rule.
an incredible snake, diddy, and really, any character, is difficult to find. an incredible MK? slightly less hard. but decent MKs? just step into any tourney and you should find at least 30, and that's only for a regional sized tourney, and that's really only if you live in a diverse region.
If you want more MK go to New Jersey lol.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I have repeatedly landed a falcon punch on legitimate players.
They all suck because of it.
*nods*
@ Overswarm: Women hard counter men.
#HBC | Red Ryu
Red Fox Warrior
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In a nutshell, yes.
I think turning Smash into a job removes the fun aspect of it, IMO.
But you know I value enjoying what I'm doing over making money, so I have a scrub mentality, lol.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Ban women.
UltiMario
Out of Obscurity
<.>
Well, if M2K quits, then I don't see MK being "Overpowering" anymore. M2K contributes a heck of a lot to MK's scores that the Pro-ban is pushing on us as proof, and just the best MK going could even trigger a domino effect.
At this point, I think that neither the ban or anti-ban sides can justify anything, seeing as the FUTURE of MK has yet to be determined, and a few key events could make MK humungo overpowering, or tone him down to simply the best character in the game, no more, no less.
This discussion is probably doing more damage to the community during the time of it than the result of it ever will.......
Overswarm
is laughing at you
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Did you just tell us that
A) MK won't be a problem if we remove his best players
as if it had any effect on MK as an actual character
and
B) MK shouldn't be banned because we can't tell the future
?
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Um, since when have the player's=character?
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Because the community loves meatriding, obviously.
I do, because my execution sucks, and you falcon punching me proved it.
OS reads XKCD?
Gnes
Smash Master
That has nothing to do with being falcon, and beating a mk in a set. But I will play into your hands...
those players do in fact suck ^_^
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It is a pity that Judge sucks.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Captain Falcon and Ness are mid tier and his matchups aren't all 8-2 like the CF boards say they are.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Gnes
Smash Master
Hmm.....judge...u.....SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jkjkjkjnotreallylolnoreallyjkteamwithmesomedayplz
but yeah...i honestly dont see how ally is winning with cf....u guys are must be either high or drunk or both when he was playing yall.
Overswarm, it's a gimmick effect. I beat good player with Ganondorf because they don't know what to expect, but once they learn what to expect, there's no hope for me. The same goes for Falcon (except he has a little more hope because he isn't as terrible as Ganon).
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
THis goes for pretty much every character mid tier and below, though. Take ZSS for instance, who has an amazing moveset, but which really only exists to serve one purpose. The player is trying to get the opponent into the air so they can juggle them. That's the goal. The opponent knows the goal. So they abuse it.
Low tier characters have this problem too but usually have some really abusable problem or are just poorly designed. The only characters with tons of options are high tier and up. Even these characters are pretty one-dimensional; Pikachu for example would be mid tier without QAC abuse.
OS, I hate to break it to you, but you're not even good. You picked up this "broken" character and you haven't won a single decent sized tournament with him yet.
But our skill level is not the point.
I would expect a bannable character take 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, at the majority of national tournaments. But MK doesn't win ANY national tournaments. He doesn't even win regional tournaments that often.
If it wasn't for M2K, MK would be lucky to place in the top 3 at nationals.
I would agree with banning MK if he won everything. but MK rarely wins ANYTHING.
Overswarm
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I lived off him for 8 months, winning several tournaments in the process.
Hell, I got 4th last weekend going fox randomly.
In other words, you're making stuff up. I also am in the top 10 MKs on the current list for Ankoku's ranking, so I have to at least by placing in the top 5 on a fairly consistent basis.
MK wins by an increidble margin....
The top 3 at nationals have shown to be the same three people over and over again. We've shown that Ally != Snake, ADHD != Diddy, and M2K != Metaknight. They're outliers that do not show any sort of trends. We've proven this; it isn't something really up for discussion.
Looking at the rest of the top 8 though and looking at only the biggest, the medium sized to biggest, or all the tournaments as a whole, and you've got consistent MK dominance. The only crack in his armor comes from people who aren't emulated in any fashion and don't show any sort of character centralization that gives hope for a counter.
AvariceX
Smash Champion
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For everyone I've seen asking this same thing on SWF and YT: Doc is the undisputed best player in Ontario right now; he dethroned KingAce (who beat Azen in pools at cot4...might have been Cat4 actually I can't remember now) after over a year of dominance by KingAce, and Doc has won something like his last 6 consecutive sets against KingAce.
What (some) people are failing to realize is that Doc beat HolyNightmare and Swordgard at the same tourney Ally beat him with Falcon, and since Doc is currently mostly even with Holy that makes him either #2 or #3 ranked in Canada.
Given all that I can confidently say that yes; he is quite legit. I can say with the same confidence that he would thoroughly trounce the vast majority of people saying he is bad because of this one blunder. Not trying to meatride a player here nor support anti-ban (I'm entirely neutral on the ban issue), but I felt it was time to put this argument to rest so people can talk about relevant things.
**** I've finally reached the point where I need to strongly consider what to post next as it will unquestionably be my most important post in my time on SWF....
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