Official Metaknight Discussion

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I have used Sagat's character dominance and made comparisons with Metaknight's dominance, however, my fellow pro-ban brothers were extremely quick to brush it off as "Smash is another game,".

Stop being a terrible straw man or prove that you aren't.

This is the original meaning of the term "Straw Man" in a debate. Someone put up from the opposition to look like their opponent but debate like an idiot on purpose. So far he's talked the talk but completely refused to walk the walk. "Pro-ban brothers" my ***;

Omni, stop trolling. It's obvious that you aren't pro-ban; you haven't given any reason for us to believe so other than your word. Seriously; you're acting like an idiot.

 

[Kewkky]

I may be wrong, but name-calling shouldn't be relied upon when trying to get some info during a debate.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I may be wrong, but name-calling shouldn't be relied upon when trying to get some info during a debate.

Well Omni is, at this point, playing the typical strawman. He's not even doing it well.

 

[Spelt]

why are you so annoyed at omni trolling?
simple fix, don't reply.
stop taking him so seriously.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I want MK banned, but I want pro-banners to want it for the right reasons. If you want MK banned simply because he wins a lot you're doing it wrong.

 

[Kewkky]

I want MK banned, but I want pro-banners to want it for the right reasons. If you want MK banned simply because he wins a lot you're doing it wrong.

Who said this? Isn't the job of the best character "winning the most"?

 

[Turbo Ether]

As an anti-ban supporter, I am disappointed that Omni has betrayed us. It would appear that he's admitting his anti-ban arguments have been demolished, resulting in him having no choice but to join pro-ban. I have lost faith.

 

[Alphatron]

This thread is the ****.

 

[CRASHiC]

Mainly, how Sagat is hated on the same level as Metaknight if not more. The amount of hate threads that use to be in the Shoryuken forums was riduclous, and there are still a large amount of people who hate Sagat.

No, its not comparable at all. Sagat is no where near as OP as Metaknight in Brawl. Sagat is like a tad bit above the cast, Metaknight is a large portion above the rest of the cast.

Even then, Sagat doesn't have the tournament results that MK has, and this being Street Fighter, you can't blame it on popularity.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

This thread is the ****.

I KNOW! So much fun.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I want MK banned, but I want pro-banners to want it for the right reasons. If you want MK banned simply because he wins a lot you're doing it wrong.

Speaking as somebody who's anti-ban but really really wants to be pro-ban, I approve of this post.


Of course, my view is that the right reasons cannot exist yet because the community has failed to produce a criteria that is both reasonable and rigid and enforceable.


But cool, nice to know that we are kindred spirits.

 

[Omni]

Budet Player Cadet: u mad? srsly tho you've got some major anger issues. if you wanna have a tantrum throw it elsewhere. come back once you've calmed down

No, its not comparable at all. Sagat is no where near as OP as Metaknight in Brawl. Sagat is like a tad bit above the cast, Metaknight is a large portion above the rest of the cast.

Even then, Sagat doesn't have the tournament results that MK has, and this being Street Fighter, you can't blame it on popularity.

if i had data showing you that Sagat is similar or superior to MK's dominance and
if i had data showing you that Sagat has more tournament results than MK

what would your argument change to

 

[Chuee]

Omni's never answered that question =/

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Budet Player Cadet: u mad? srsly tho you've got some major anger issues. if you wanna have a tantrum throw it elsewhere. come back once you've calmed down

Me and anger issues... nah, I'm good. I'm here because this debate is ****ing hilarious; you just are one more joke on the pile. Not about to stop me from calling you on your ****.

 

[CRASHiC]

Nothing because there is no such data. Anyone who follows Street Fighter at all can clearly see this.

 

[Omni]

Omni's never answered that question =/

hm? what question?

BPC: yeah, u mad. i'll let you cool off in the corner

crashic: i'm telling u i have the data to prove otherwise. once i show you that data, what will your argument be? if it wont change then there's no point in presenting it

 

[Professor :3]

Ffff
10Ffff

 

[CRASHiC]

There is no data. I honestly don't care and that to me just shows you are trolling. Sagats didn't even make it to world, and you are telling me they are just as centralizing? Any type of data that attempts to suggest such a thing is blantenly manipulative, wrong, and trying to get by on a community that doesn't know anything about other fighting games. I can't remember the last time I saw a Sagat in a grand finals match at a national. Omni, either you are don't know what you are talking about, you are trying to pull a fast one on this community, or you are trolling.

 

[GwJ]

Lol@everyone being trolled by Omni.

 

[Kaffei]

So I hear 2/3 of SWF wants to ban MK.. is that true??

 

[Chuee]

Why you suddenly switched to Pro-ban.
You knew what question I was talking about <.<

 

[CRASHiC]

There is no way to know currently Kaffei because there is no up to date poll.

 

[Turbo Ether]

So I hear 2/3 of SWF wants to ban MK.. is that true??

That 2/3 of Smashboards is scrubby. If 2/3 of the community quit the game if MK isn't banned, good riddance! Anti-ban ftw!

 

[Sosuke]

That 2/3 of Smashboards is scrubby. If 2/3 of the community quit the game if MK isn't banned, good riddance! Anti-ban ftw!

Can you guys please get this mentality that "everyone who doesn't agree with me is my enemy" out of your heads?

It makes you sound like you're 10 or something.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

It is scrubbier to limit MK's ability to play to win than it is to outright ban him.

 

[TP]

If 2/3 of the community quit the game if MK isn't banned, good riddance!

Yeah, who needs money anyway?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

If it were up to me we wouldn't play for money.

Twilight Prince, do you know Reggie Hudlin?

 

[etecoon]

I want MK banned, but I want pro-banners to want it for the right reasons. If you want MK banned simply because he wins a lot you're doing it wrong.

well this happens to be basically overswarms entire argument, and by extension pro-bans argument because he's the only one making consistently good arguments in this topic on either side, lmao

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Who said this? Isn't the job of the best character "winning the most"?

MK is broken in my opinion for reasons I've expressed already.

If we removed LGL and scrooging rules like we should MK would reign just by nature of the fact that no one could ever hit him.

With these rules in play his effectiveness is diminished quite a bit, but he still wins most tournaments. If that wasn't the case though I'd still say it was better for the game for him to be banned.

Old Sagat wasn't really the "best" character either.

well this happens to be basically overswarms entire argument, and by extension pro-bans argument because he's the only one making consistently good arguments in this topic on either side, lmao

Overswarm has also argued that the implementation of ledge grab rules and scrooging limitations (well, these don't really exist yet but could) artificially diminish a Meta Knight player's ability to play to win by forcing said player to play in a certain way, I believe.

 

[CRASHiC]

No that would be Eddie. I think Eddie could beat Ivan Ooze.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

No that would be Eddie. I think Eddie could beat Ivan Ooze.

HAHAHAHA Ivan Ooze references make you amazing.

I get what you're saying CRASHiC (and agree with you) but I'm just trying to point out that MK doesn't have to be the best to be bannable.

 

[etecoon]

Overswarm has also argued that the implementation of ledge grab rules and scrooging limitations (well, these don't really exist yet but could) artificially diminish a Meta Knight player's ability to play to win by forcing said player to play in a certain way, I believe.

if he's said this it would contradict all the times where he goes "wtf guys planking doesn't even really work, no one planks me because they know it's a bad idea" <_<

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

if he's said this it would contradict all the times where he goes "wtf guys planking doesn't even really work, no one planks me because they know it's a bad idea" <_<

Wow, Meta Knight can stop Meta Knight players from planking?! Who knew?

 

[adumbrodeus]

It is scrubbier to limit MK's ability to play to win than it is to outright ban him.

Ehhh, depends.


If you're attempting to save a banworthy character by banning parts of his natural moveset then yes.


If you're banning a tactic that's ban-worthy in and of itself, then that's cool.


If you're attempting to ban a banworthy tactic in a way that's not discrete and enforcable and the tactic is character specific, then yes.

well this happens to be basically overswarms entire argument, and by extension pro-bans argument because he's the only one making consistently good arguments in this topic on either side, lmao

Heh? I've been making consistently good arguments! I just don't make enormous Walls of text.


OS is the only person that understands the numbers which hasn't basically agreed with my point of view on the raw data at this point for example.

 

[UltiMario]

It is scrubbier to limit MK's ability to play to win than it is to outright ban him.

But what does decide that it is scrubbier to ban a tactic, rather than to ban a borderline character? The answer is nothing. Banning a tactic is no scrubbier than banning a character. It is a false, biased idea, that has been pounded into our minds by innacurate, biased debaters. They are equally "scrubby", but also equally "not scrubby"


THIS NEEDS TO BE POUNDED INTO PEOPLE'S HEADS.

WHAT IS SCRUBBIER IS NOT A PROVABLE FACT, THEREFORE, YOU CANNOT SAY WHAT IS SCRUBBIER, THEREFORE, NEITHER ARE "SCRUBBY"

THAT ARGUEMENT IS THE STUPIDEST STRAWMANNING ON THIS SIDE OF THE INTERNET.


Needed to get that out of my system, thats all.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Melee Ganondorf has an 80-20 MU against Ivan Ooze.

But what does decide that it is scrubbier to ban a tactic, rather than to ban a borderline character? The answer is nothing. Banning a tactic is no scrubbier than banning a character. It is a false, biased idea, that has been pounded into our minds by innacurate, biased debaters. They are equally "scrubby", but also equally "not scrubby"


THIS NEEDS TO BE POUNDED INTO PEOPLE'S HEADS.

WHAT IS SCRUBBIER IS NOT A PROVABLE FACT, THEREFORE, YOU CANNOT SAY WHAT IS SCRUBBIER, THEREFORE, NEITHER ARE "SCRUBBY"

THIS ARGUEMENT IS THE STUPIDEST STRAWMANNING ON THIS SIDE OF THE INTERNET.

Look above. Depends on the situation.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

@adumbrodeus:

Do you agree that a character which makes mechanics which are otherwise perfectly balanced and acceptable broken or whom causes said mechanics to change the scope of the game entirely when not kept in check is broken in that way?

@UltiMario

These rules limit Meta Knight's capacity to play to win, and are scrubby rules.

 

[UltiMario]

Every single character has a grab and throw.

But if Ice Climbers grab you, you lose a stock. They break the mechanic.

Ban Ice Climbers.

 

[Zulu Nation]

But what does decide that it is scrubbier to ban a tactic, rather than to ban a borderline character? The answer is nothing. Banning a tactic is no scrubbier than banning a character. It is a false, biased idea, that has been pounded into our minds by innacurate, biased debaters. They are equally "scrubby", but also equally "not scrubby"


THIS NEEDS TO BE POUNDED INTO PEOPLE'S HEADS.

WHAT IS SCRUBBIER IS NOT A PROVABLE FACT, THEREFORE, YOU CANNOT SAY WHAT IS SCRUBBIER, THEREFORE, NEITHER ARE "SCRUBBY"

THAT ARGUEMENT IS THE STUPIDEST STRAWMANNING ON THIS SIDE OF THE INTERNET.


Needed to get that out of my system, thats all.

Lol I gotta say it.

Umad?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Every single character has a grab and throw.

But if Ice Climbers grab you, you lose a stock. They break the mechanic.

Ban Ice Climbers.

This is a terrible comparison. lol