Official MBR Tier List

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

I added that before I saw your post.
This is really ********, I can't beleive you actually thought I WAS trying to make a euro vs us statement. >.> Stop basing what you're writing on defensive and patriotic emotions and try to think instead.

 

[Sh0ckwave]

y u gota b leik dat jamz? u alwazy gotta b...RYDN ME LEIK A ROOOOWDEEOOO

cuz i dun lyk u n yo amerikan ignerence

 

[sweetxignorance]

I added that before I saw your post.
This is really ********, I can't beleive you actually thought I WAS trying to make a euro vs us statement. >.> Stop basing what you're writing on defensive and patriotic emotions and try to think instead.

This is coming from the guy who tries to dismiss Yayuhzz's logical post because he said that Silentspectre>all of Sweden.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

This is coming from the guy who tries to dismiss Yayuhzz's logical post because he said that Silentspectre>all of Sweden.

Haha. <3

I did notice he completely skipped it, but I just didn't say anything because I didn't want to put him on the spot.

 

[Knyaguy]

Yes Mewtwo isn't last!!!!

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Yeah, so now when I beat people with Pichu, I can laugh even harder, once again.

 

[PCHU]

How come Pichu is the worst?
He rocks (when someone good uses him)!
But yeah, I'm glad as well that he's so low.
Now to take on Foxes and various other very high tiers, and prove Pichu is 1337!

 

[Sh0ckwave]

fox, falcon, and falco cg's by pichu = super crazy action good times

 

[BrawlLover]

pichu oh pichu

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Pichu can CG himself?

This is coming from the guy who tries to dismiss Yayuhzz's logical post because he said that Silentspectre>all of Sweden.

If yayuhzz doesn't hesitate saying that SS would beat all swedish smashers (despite not knowing anything about swedish smash), it's pretty obvious that he is the kind of person that acts as if he knows things he doesn't know anything about. Is that kind of person worth arguing with about anything? Think about it.

 

[jugfingers]

You're from SWEDEN dude, THERE ARE ZERO PEOPLE IN SWEDEN WHO WOULD WIN AGAINST SILENTSPECTRE.

this made me laugh.


pulling out the trump card.

haha

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Pichu can CG himself?

If yayuhzz doesn't hesitate saying that SS would beat all swedish smashers (despite not knowing anything about swedish smash), it's pretty obvious that he is the kind of person that acts as if he knows things he doesn't know anything about. Is that kind of person worth arguing with about anything? Think about it.

Coming from someone who joined in 2008 and says Fox DESTROYS Falcon. Alright. Either way, majority of what you said is wrong, so that doesn't really matter.

But Sweden vs the US isn't the topic at hand, I'll admit. So, un-derailing the topic, the matchup isn't that horrible if the Falcon has any idea what he's doing vs Fox.

 

[hizzlum]

lol how close was marth to getting the number one spot on this list. Fox is overall a bit better than marth IMO, but since the list has them both at 9.9, I would like to know how close marth's dominance in late o6 to 08 to the widely regarded best character in melee thoughout the world(fox)
This is the best list the SBR has made for brawl/melee, all characters are placed in a tier which accrately depicts the reslts in the metagame and the tiers themselves are very specific. Just erfectly done, I hope the next brawl tier list is as good as this one (melee>brawl forever IMO even in tier lists lol)

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Me joining this year is completely irrelevant. First you attack me because I'm not american and then you start talking about how I joined this year? You seem a bit desperate to trying to put me down here. Is that stuff necessary for you to win an argument?

Fox destroys falcon in the way that it is one of his two WORST matchups (fox and falco are his worst, sheik is bad aswell but not terrible imo). What you said in the first post really had nothing to do with the matchup in itself, you basically just said "if the falcon outsmarts the fox, he'll win"... And that can be said about every matchup in the game (might be a few low/bottom tier vs high/top tier where it does not fully apply however, if the high/top tier player plays very safe and gay. like falco vs bowser on fd, if the falco keeps running away and spamming lasers bowser has very very few options to get around it).
If one player outsmarts another player he's the better player. We're talking about MATCHUPS here not players.
60-40 is very generous, I'd say AT LEAST 65-35 fox's favor.
Like I said before, ask any high level falcon player, im sure most of them will say that fox is a pretty heavy falcon counter.

 

[lordXblade]

This is very accurate.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Stuff

Alright. So in your post you neglect that all Falcon is going to do against Fox is DD camp for grabs and whatnot and space nair so he can get a grab/dair tech chase/combo against Fox and that his nair completely overrides Fox's when spaced.

Falcon's combos on Fox are mainly tech chasing. While this isn't great if Falcon didn't have maybe 2-3 moves that covered multiple Fox tech options (raptor boost being the common one) and ridiculous running speed then I'd probably consider this horrible but he does have a ridiculous running speed and while his priority is balls it's enough to use in conjunction with his range to beat some of Fox's stuff. On that note, PC Chris lost to Darkrain in pools at Pound 3. I'm aware it was just pools but the fact that a Fox of that calibur can lose to a Falcon, even if he was playing below his standard, speaks very highly of how dangerous Falcon's tech chasing can be.

yayuhzz made a bad argument with technical errors and stuff because everyone beats Fox when the Fox screws up enough.

I very strongly feel that Falcon/Fox is around 65/35 in Fox's favour (it's worse than 60/40), which is pretty horrible when you think about it, but Peach/Fox is probably about the same if not worse in fact I'd say in NTSC it's around 75/25 if the Fox is any good at all and probably worse. I'm aware PAL's development is different but over here it's probably around 75/25. If the Fox doesn't miss L-cancel, laser camps, dash dances properly and doesn't do stupid stuff like shffled Nairs into CCed D-smash then he destroys Peach horrifically.

Fox, more than pretty much any character, punishes her lack of speed in ways that other characters can only dream of. His lasers, speed, and aerial mobility pretty much ensures he can get her into killing range with only taking 1-3 hits in the process. Probably more like 1-2 if the Fox is gay enough. And Peach doesn't have the ridiculous running speed to be able to look for grabs by DD camping or spacing Nair --> grab or anything.

Drillshine --> u-smash is pretty much death at like 60-80 around here depending on the level. I don't think you understand how destructive NTSC Fox's u-smash actually is. U-smash out of shield alone wrecks a ton of Peach's approach options (outprioritizes her aerials or trades with them at worst). Her chain grab additionally only works on FD and Dreamland (kind of) and her platform chase game is not enough on stages like Yoshi's or Pokemon Stadium. Her platform chase game is terrible.

Peach's speed comes back to haunt her against Fox in a horrible, horrible way.

 

[VA]

Me joining this year is completely irrelevant. First you attack me because I'm not american and then you start talking about how I joined this year? You seem a bit desperate to trying to put me down here. Is that stuff necessary for you to win an argument?

Fox destroys falcon in the way that it is one of his two WORST matchups (fox and falco are his worst, sheik is bad aswell but not terrible imo). What you said in the first post really had nothing to do with the matchup in itself, you basically just said "if the falcon outsmarts the fox, he'll win"... And that can be said about every matchup in the game (might be a few low/bottom tier vs high/top tier where it does not fully apply however, if the high/top tier player plays very safe and gay. like falco vs bowser on fd, if the falco keeps running away and spamming lasers bowser has very few good options to get around it).
If one player outsmarts another player he's the better player. We're talking about MATCHUPS here not players.
60-40 is very generous, I'd say AT LEAST 65-35 fox's favor.
Like I said before, ask any high level falcon player, im sure most of them will say that fox is a pretty heavy falcon counter.

eurgh, I really don't like your posts. I don't know where your sense of righteousness has come from but it seems weird for an unheard of swedish guy. What yayuhzz was saying is that your analysis was ridiuclous, falcon can gimp the **** out of fox. Have you ever heard of Darkrain combo? That wasn't about guess work, falcon can put fox in years of hitstun and knee the **** out of him.

I think what yayuhzz was saying is that you need only guess correct once or twice to gimp fox with falcon, once he's launched he's pretty ****ed. I in no way think that the match up is that much in favour of fox and the way you talk makes you sound like some kind of authority. Knowledge is highly cumulative in melee, which is why it's relevant that you joined in 2008.

P.S I doubt armada could beat SS lolz

 

[KirbyKaze]

The Darkrain combos at FC3 don't work in practice. They were a product of survival DI and several other factors including but not limited to Darkrain's amazingness.

Falcon has more opportunities to gimp Fox than Peach does mostly because he has enough speed to **** around in front of Fox with spaced moves and threaten him. He also has the option to DD grab whereas Peach spends most of her time running across the screen after Fox while Fox goes "pew pew pew", "pew", or "pew pew". Peach also, incidentally, does not have a stupidly good DD or DD grab game.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

^^The only significant difference in terms of PAL and NTSC in these matchups is that Fox's usmash is weaker (which makes a difference in the peach matchup, not so much in the falcon matchup). As far as I know peach and falcon haven't been changed. Doesnt make a HUGE difference though, uthrow->uair still kills at low percent.
Judging from vids of top american pros and my own experience with some of the best players here (and vids from those people, and people i havent played) the matchups aren't played differently at all. (except that foxes will kill peaches at lower percent with usmash )
Although, I remember watching a vid of teh spamerer vs vidjo (i think) on poke floats where he camped until the clock ran out That has never happened here (as far as I know)
I was impressed by that by the way, camping in this game DOES take skill.

Vanityangel, first of all he was at high percent (he couldve finished off that combo earlier if he wanted to). He cant combo fox like that at low percent , and low % is when you want to be racking up damage. And second of all you can DI away from the uthrows, which makes any kind of follow up impossible (unless theyre at very high%)
And I don't care that you don't like my posts.

Im really tired now since its like really late here so im gonna sleep, i might edit this post later arguing about why I think falcons matchup vs fox is worse then peach's or make a new post. good night everyone

 

[VA]

Yeah but it's ****?

And lol peach > falcon imo. Not to do with match ups I just think that falcon has more signifant weaknesses.

EDIT: cos noob Mike posted showing even further lack of knowledge. Fox loses recovery distance from PAL to NTSC, he's lighter and also his uair is worse, know yourself yo.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

Falcon can't combo fox well at all... comboing fox across the stage with nairs and uairs (like falcon can do to pretty much every other char in the game) is impossible.

hahaha wait was this really your initial argument there?

LOL

falcon can't do the exact standard combo against fox that he can against a completely separate weight/fall speed class of characters? therefore falcon is bad because what's a variety i guess.

that's basically the logic given.

iiiiiiiimpressive.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm aware Mike won't see this for a while but Peach's recovery is fairly gimpable for a smart Fox.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Gimpy I never said falcon is bad. >.> I said fox ***** him in the fox vs falcon matchup
yhea im supposed to sleep now, but i dont want people thinking i said crap i didnt. i dont blame anyone for skimming posts tho

 

[Gimpyfish62]

also ss would destroy sweeden for free.

*watches him respond to this then talk about how our patriotism gets in the way of our arguments when it's clearly the other way around*

 

[PCHU]

I just got through trying out Mario as one of my mains.
He is a beast, and I am happy to have found this out.
But one question: How is Dr. Mario better?
I can see maybe the weight and the power, but Mario is freakishly fast compared to Dr. Mario.
I mean, they both have decent aerials, but Mario can fast-fall faster, not to mention his fair meteors.
He seems to have less lag overall, and a faster running speed.
His smashes are very nice, in that his fsmash goes a little ways further and still kills.
I don't notice a difference in dsmash, but I'm guessing Dr. M's usmash is more powerful.

Where did Mario go wrong?
Not enough people using him?

 

[BrawlLover]

I bet you China has at least 10 m2k's.

 

[slikvik]

corts falcon 2-0d azen at pound 3. Azen used marth and...fox. He did it pretty convincingly too. I was surprised. Theres no way the match-up this match-up is 65-35. I've seen too many great falcons assrape good foxes

 

[BrawlLover]

BrawlLover Today, 05:25 PM

slikvik Today, 05:25 PM

we're meant to be

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

What players like Mike don't understand is the higher knowledge of the game than he could ever understand. FOX DOESN'T **** FALCON. It's a match in Fox's favor, but it's not ****. If it was ****, why would ANY Falcon ever beat ANY Fox on a pro level? I think the Falco/Sheik matchups are worse anyway, but that's not the topic at hand.

I could sit here and list out all the pros and cons of the matchup for each character, but that isn't really necessary. All you have to do is watch a match between a good fox and a good falcon and the weaknesses/strong points hit you in the face like a mactruck. Falcon is the master of the baiting/punishing of mistakes/prediction and Fox is the priority ball combo machine gimp extraordinaire. You put those two in a ring together and you're going to have a fight that's outcome is based upon who has a better read on who and who can punish mistakes better. It's not like Fox just steamrolls him in a match and I can guarantee you 95% of Fox players DON'T like playing against Falcon in tournaments, because he's a scary matchup for Fox.

 

[Zephynazo]

Marth is ranked a little bit too high, imo. And Falco, a bit too low.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Gais, Fawks an' Marf r ALWAYS winning tourneys. I tink we shud bann them cuz there waaaaai to gewd. I meen, it maeks the game liek, not fun. We need to ban them.

 

[PCHU]

Marth is ranked a little bit too high, imo. And Falco, a bit too low.

Gais, Fawks an' Marf r ALWAYS winning tourneys. I tink we shud bann them cuz there waaaaai to gewd. I meen, it maeks the game liek, not fun. We need to ban them.

TISK

Marth too high?
He DESTROYS people.
He's got, like, perfect moves for combo setups, and said moves can be used to combo with and KILL.
Not to mention he has a counter that is rarely used.
And he's the perfect mix of floaty and fast.
I think his placement is correct, along with Fox's.

 

[Shred_kid]

...but...Roy has phyr3...

 

[jugfingers]

mike,

what you say is true at lower levels of play.

but as skill increases character matchups become less skewed, and less skewed more dramatically in some matchups than others.

I think thats why people were hating on your assertion that fox ***** falcon, because at a pro level, falcon also ***** fox.

 

[chaddd]

Where did Lambchops place in that tourney btw? Oh that's right he didn't make it out of my pool in round 1. Who knocked chops out of doubles... right it was Kage. Kage in friendlies and in tournies is much different.

Played Chadd in friendlies at Georgia, he didn't win them but those are just friendlies. The tier list doesn't really work well with the tournament results or with what the general consensus in the entire last thread was. I don't really have much else to say and it's not like it would matter

You played me in some friendlies? I'm not going to say Canada is a joke or anything, but I think I've said that more times than anything else on these boards. Leave your garbage Ganon talk off the sh*t.

I do what I do, and don't try to ride my accomplishments to the ground like some people. I've beaten (and some very badly) in tournament more people that could 4 stock you than any other Ganon main. I don't know why you nobodies are always trying to challenge my 'skill' in a game I barely even give a sh*t about anymore, but somehow can't stop winning at. Get a life.

 

[Deleted member]

SS would **** on sweden no toilet paper.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Lmfao, I started a SS > Sweden fad in this thread. gg

 

[jugfingers]

I don't know why you nobodies are always trying to challenge my 'skill' in a game I barely even give a sh*t about anymore, but somehow can't stop winning at. Get a life.

I love ganon mains who care a lot about there rep but pretend not to.

 

[BrawlLover]

he tolly is

 

[jugfingers]

what pre-emptive johns by chadd?


johns aren't cool man.