Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[Gea]

I wish Roy could glide.

 

[Varist]

I wish Roy could shoot his sword like in LoZ

 

[Xyzz]

I wish Roy could do anything that made him different from being a bad version of Marth

 

[BTmoney]

A: Falco, Fox, Sheik, Jigglypuff
B: Peach, Marth, Captain Falcon
C: Ice Climbers, Dr. Mario, Pikachu
D: Ganondorf, Samus, Mario
E: Young Link, Luigi, Donkey Kong, Link
F: Zelda, Mewtwo, Yoshi, Roy
G: Ness, Mr. Game & Watch, Bowser, Pichu, Kirby

Justification:
Falco > Fox: Fox is too hard
Sheik > Jigglypuff: Better MU vs. Fox
Peach > Marth: Peach is too easy, bad MUs aren't that bad going by Armada's performance
Pikachu and Doc's jump: Both have really good MU spreads, their bad MUs aren't that bad going by Axe and Shroomed's performances
Young Link's rise: Actually usable as a CP for Puff and Peach
Luigi lower: He really can't compete... He's just limited lol
Yoshi's jump: He's not that bad, but he needs results to warrant moving up further
Roy's drop: Roy sucks, first character in this list with near unwinnable MUs (Peach and ICs imo)
Bottom tier placement: Who cares?

Fox still has better MUs than Falco. He even has a superior firefox to falco's firebird which is just a systematic troll from the developers.

Switch Fox and Falco then you got a decent list.

Here is mine, in order of aptitude:
A:
Fox
Falco
Sheik
Jiggs

B+:
Peach - Marth

B:
Falcon
Doc
Icies
Pikachu

C:
Ganon
Samus
Mario

D:
Young Link
Luigi
DK
Link

F:
Roy (disjointed hitboxes and good speed are enough to not be pathetically bad)
Mewtwo
Ness


N/A Tier lul:
Bowser
Zelda
Yoshi
Kirby
Pichu
G&W


*Two characters on the same line indicates a tie. Imo Peach and Marth have very similar matchups and rely on edge uarding and gimps
(look me in my eyes and tell me that m2ks marth is disadvantaged against a fox)

 

[MountainGoat]

^
You're underrating Yoshi and Zelda imo. Both are definitely at least above the N/A tier.

 

[BTmoney]

Possibly, seeing as I have never seen anything to make me think otherwise lol

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Fox has better MUs than Falco, but no one can play him consistently well enough to take advantage of that.

 

[BTmoney]

Well a tier list pretends that you realize the potential of a character and consistency isn't an issue. I find mango's fox very consistent when he's not getting bamboozled by m2k, which is 97% of the time.

I also think that fox's alleged lack of consistency is a non factor. Look at M2k's fox. He does absolutely nothing difficult or hard to repeat lol
and more foxes could learn a thing from the simplicity.

Shine spike
DD usmash
DD grab
uthrow uair
SH DL
Overpowering other character's in the neutral game with your nair and bair and being generally better lul

If your play style is a comboing fox or a triple shiner than he is a lot harder to be constant with.

The fact that M2k even has a fox with his play style
(which is gimp, zoning, grabbing, and tech chasing heavy )
exemplifies the point that fox has good MUs and can play to his kill moves and the MU better than other characters in the game.
Fox doesn't play like sheik or marth or the way M2k wants to play.
Fox is good enough that you should have to learn how to play him at a high level.

Because of the way I interpret it, M2k is the reason I picked up fox. I am originally (and still) a conservative marth.
I look at players like Mango and Javi and I shEEt myself. I think I could never do that.
But then I see m2k's fox which is effective (and even to some degree pp's fox which isn''t as ridiculous as his falco)
and I see how to be consistent with fox.

imo

Fox can be consistent. Now if you play fox like silentwolf, javi, or lovage who are all great and shine heavy then it's a lot harder.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

excuse you

you don't get to define what a tier list is

 

[BTmoney]

Nah,

I believe I'm allowed to interpret a tier list

Fox has better MUs than Falco, but no one can play him consistently well enough to take advantage of that.

And on a basic level, that is just not true. Fox wouldn't be #1 if it was
>_>

 

[Laijin]

You know Young Link also counters Ice Climbers, wins against Ganondorf, goes even with Pikachu, has a fairly easy time with Samus and does well against Doc and Mario.
I think he should be a bit higher than you guys give him credit for

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Young Link counters Ice Climbers? You're cute.

And on a basic level, that is just not true. Fox wouldn't be #1 if it was
>_>

Fox is #1 because Fox is #1

I should've looked at your post count before I started responding to you.

 

[BTmoney]

Due to my post count however, , I do not see the delete button on this forum currently. Consider that a victory.

 

[BTmoney]

I think just below mario is where he belongs. Maybe in the C tier with mario but he's not better.

And that could very well be true lol but if the MU says 80:20 in Icies favor I'm going to assume that Icies wins that convincingly lol
I've never seen a Icies vs YL match myself however

I should've looked at your post count before I started responding to you.

Lol excuse me. I must be stupid.

It's not possible that my IQ is above 95. Also judging by my post count I have probably never seen melee. Also I cannot comprehend or speak intelligently on concepts or hold a discussion based on what I've seen and accurately describe my ideas with words.

Also, because of my post count, I don't know what basic words mean.

Maybe when I reach your post count I can be smart. Maybe as smart as you.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Lower post count indicates less experience with the game, yes.

You put Zelda in bottom tier because you've never seen her played, you actually used the argument "Fox is #1 because he is #1", and you're assuming that YL destroys ICs because the MU chart says so.

"If the boot fits", as they say. It wouldn't bother me if you weren't so sure of yourself.

 

[Varist]

Well a tier list pretends that you realize the potential of a character and consistency isn't an issue. I find mango's fox very consistent when he's not getting bamboozled by m2k, which is 97% of the time.

I also think that fox's alleged lack of consistency is a non factor. Look at M2k's fox. He does absolutely nothing difficult or hard to repeat lol
and more foxes could learn a thing from the simplicity.

Shine spike
DD usmash
DD grab
uthrow uair
SH DL
Overpowering other character's in the neutral game with your nair and bair and being generally better lul

If your play style is a comboing fox or a triple shiner than he is a lot harder to be constant with.

The fact that M2k even has a fox with his play style
(which is gimp, zoning, grabbing, and tech chasing heavy )
exemplifies the point that fox has good MUs and can play to his kill moves and the MU better than other characters in the game.
Fox doesn't play like sheik or marth or the way M2k wants to play.
Fox is good enough that you should have to learn how to play him at a high level.

Because of the way I interpret it, M2k is the reason I picked up fox. I am originally (and still) a conservative marth.
I look at players like Mango and Javi and I shEEt myself. I think I could never do that.
But then I see m2k's fox which is effective (and even to some degree pp's fox which isn''t as ridiculous as his falco)
and I see how to be consistent with fox.

imo

Fox can be consistent. Now if you play fox like silentwolf, javi, or lovage who are all great and shine heavy then it's a lot harder.

is this post a joke

 

[Strong Badam]

Fox still has better MUs than Falco. [nonsense]
Switch Fox and Falco then you got a decent list.

fox is a great example of a character that "wins more" in some match-ups, which leads to people thinking he's better pragmatically than he actually is (which is still really good). people look at how falco "struggles" against Peach (an even match-up, which i guess is struggling for spacie players?? LOL) and Jigglypuff (probably in falco's favor, if not even) and then at how Fox beats them pretty solidly and draw conclusions, when that's not really the whole picture.
in actuality, a character that ***** a ton of characters 70-30 and loses to one or two of them 40-60 (especially if those match-ups are common in tournament) is strictly worse as a solo tournament choice than a character that has match-ups no worse than 50-50 (but 90% of the time, in his favor if only slightly). those instances where the first character "wins more" may make it seem like he's better, but he's really not.

fact of the matter is, falco has no losing match-ups, while fox loses to falco (and doesn't lose to anyone else). does fox have an easier time in some match-ups? sure he does! the same way that sheik has an easier time with samus than spacies do. winning more here and there does not suddenly make your losing match-ups not matter, though. it does make the character attractive as a secondary, but the tier list does not attempt to rank how useful a character is a secondary, only as a solo main.

also i guesss tournament results or something, no solo fox main doing much really (javi 4th at apex 2012 is the highest solo fox placing in forever and was a one-of) but pp and mango demolishing just about everyone with mango only using fox if armada or hbox are present

 

[Grim Tuesday]

What do you guys think the best two characters to co-main are? Keeping in mind technical difficulty and such.

 

[Strong Badam]

jigglypuff + falco

 

[iRobinhoood]

Lower post count indicates less experience with the game, yes.

Disagree.

I've now only been playing melee, competitively at least, for little over a year. I have a higher post count than some members who have been playing for 5+ lol

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Indicates =/= no exceptions

 

[DrinkingFood]

The same thing applies to a lot of people though. It's not a very reliable rule. jus' sayin'

 

[Grim Tuesday]

When the person in question has 100 posts, it's pretty reliable.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I'll concede. That still doesn't make it a very good indicator... just okay... whatev's though, not like people can understand smash without posting a lot. Or even at all.

 

[Bose]

When the person in question has 100 posts, it's pretty reliable.

I have been playing melee in tournaments actively for over 4 years. Your argument is invalid.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Who are you? XD

 

[DrinkingFood]

Exactly, maybe the reason you think there aren't a lot of highly experienced players who rarely or never post is because... oh i don't know... they never post?
Again just saiyan

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I know someone who has played the Smash games competitively for a decade now and he still sucks at both of them lol. Experience ain't just time spent playing.

 

[Bose]

What DrinkingFood said.

I play with the nick TheBose, and it seems I can't change it here. I'm a known name mostly in the Norwegian and Swedish community.

I know someone who has played the Smash games competitively for a decade now and he still sucks at both of them lol. Experience ain't just time spent playing.

Again, you imply that people with my kind of post count is probably bad at this game, this time EVEN with many years of competitive experience.
You just keep burying yourself in your horrible arguments, mate.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

'Probably bad' doesn't mean 'is bad', though?

Take every person on this board with less than a 100 posts and see how many of them know what they are talking about.

Exactly.

 

[Bose]

I can agree that statistically, most of the users with less than 100 posts will probably be inexperienced.

That doesn't mean you can go all "judging by your post count i'm gonna assume you're worthless, get out of this discussion" though.
It should be obvious to you, when there certainly is experienced smash players out there who are not active on forums, that you should be more careful.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Young Link counters Ice Climbers? You're cute.



Fox is #1 because Fox is #1

I should've looked at your post count before I started responding to you.

Everything is wrong with this post.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Fox has better MUs than Falco, but no one can play him consistently well enough to take advantage of that.

Plenty of people can. Top tournaments are simply the result of player performance not character selection.

Also, falco doesnt beat fox any worse than fox beats falco

 

[Bones0]

Why do people care so much about a new tier list? Legitimately curious.

Having a 3-year-old tier list kinda reinforces the misconception that the game is dead/dying, or at the very least not evolving. A lot has changed since 2010, but then again, no one will admit it so here's a sneak peek at what the 2013 tier list would look like for those who care (I hacked Sveet's account to obtain it; no one tell him):

A: Falco, Fox, Sheik, Jigglypuff
B: Peach, Marth, Captain Falcon
C: Ice Climbers, Dr. Mario
D: Samus, Pikachu, Ganondorf
E: Luigi, Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Young Link
F: Zelda, Yoshi
G: Mr. Game & Watch, Mewtwo, Roy
H: Ness, Bowser, Kirby, Pichu

 

[The Star King]

A game can evolve without the characters' relative positions changing much. Just saying.

But if people really draw those conclusions (that the game is dead or not evolving) from the fact there hasn't been a tier list for 3 years (I don't think they do, especially the people who visit this site), and you just want a new tier list for the sake of appearance... fair enough I guess

 

[Lovage]

Why do people care so much about a new tier list? Legitimately curious.

ppl dont, its just fun to discuss

A lot has changed since 2010

not that much

 

[Bones0]

It doesn't matter if any characters change positions. The idea is that if a community is too lazy to update a tier list after 3 years, they probably don't have an active community. Picture a scenario with someone who has no idea competitive Melee exists. Someone tells them about it, so they Google around for a bit and find a Smash wiki. They go to the tier list because everyone always wants to know who the best is; it's human nature. They see the lists that were created over the years:
- 2 in '02
- 3 in '03
- 1 in '04
- 1 in '05
- 1 in '06
- 1 in '08
- 2 in 2010

No lists since 2010 is a pretty easy indicator to random people how alive a game is. If you didn't know what game those lists were for and you saw that pattern, wouldn't you assume the game died after 2010? I don't even particularly like tier lists because they inherently introduce tons of bias and encourage a lot of petty behavior in the community, such as new players flocking to the top characters or players who use lower tiered character feeling entitled to johns, etc. But we have a tier list regardless, so we might as well slap 2013 on the list so we can say our tier list is up to date.

 

[Laijin]

A: Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth
B: Peach, Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon
C: Ice Climbers, Young Link
D: Dr. Mario, Samus, Pikachu, Ganondorf
E: Luigi, Mario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Link
F: Zelda, Mewtwo
G: Mr. Game & Watch, Roy
H: Ness, Bowser, Kirby, Pichu

This is most accurate. Young Link does well against everyone in B tier and basically counters Ice Climbers and Jigglypuff. He also does well against even below him or goes even with a few of them. He also has better match ups than literally everyone below him.

 

[MountainGoat]

That's a pretty bold claim for Young Link... He does well against C. falcon? He counters ice climbers? I don't think he even "counters" jiggs. Just because Armada is a great YL player who can win the battle of attrition vs hbox doesn't mean YL counters Jiggs. There just isn't anywhere near enough evidence that Young Link is anywhere close to where you put him.

 

[Laijin]

That's a pretty bold claim for Young Link... He does well against C. falcon? He counters ice climbers? I don't think he even "counters" jiggs. Just because Armada is a great YL player who can win the battle of attrition vs hbox doesn't mean YL counters Jiggs. There just isn't anywhere near enough evidence that Young Link is anywhere close to where you put him.

Yeah dude he does pretty well against Falcon. His bombs and n-air kinda wreck most of his approaches. Although I'd say Falcon wins the MU overall, he definitely doesn't win it easily. And yes, YL counters Jiggs. How is Jigglypuff supposed to get in on him? Exactly. I've been saying YL counters Jiggs many many years before Armada vs Hbox. He also counters Ice Climbers for the same reason as Jiggs. They can't really get in on him easily and because they are floaty it makes it easy to rack up damage on them fast. Its a pretty known fact man.You might be able to argue Young Link's placement vs the rest of the D tiers, but overall I like him where I put him.