¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯
Smash Legend
I've started a stage discussion here, and this is the index for it, and it will be updated as we discuss more stages. These discussions are based on a 1-10 scale, 1 being least usable, 10 being great to use. These will take into account all gimmicks that certain characters have against Marth on different stages, or gimmicks that Marth has against other characters. Also, feel free to revisit and post in old threads that we have "finished." Just because we've moved on doesn't mean we can't rediscuss some things!
NEUTRALS:
1. Battlefield
Link: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197658
Rating: 9.99/10
My Summary: This is one of Marth's best stages. the platforms can really help him out against campers because he can stay above them on the platforms. It doesn't really have a super high ceiling or anything so that is not a problem. If an opponent is on the top platform and you hit them with a tipper Uair, it can kill pretty early on most characters (I can test this later). This doesn't gimp your recovery either, so use this a lot. It doesn't really hurt you against any characters, so this is one is a very solid (pun definitely intended) stage for Marth.
Steel:
This is basically Marth's home. Because it is an overall small stage Marth can maintain control of it the entire time. Because it is small it can also make it anti-camper, not that Marth really has much of a problem with it anyway.
Platforms. If Marth gets his opponent in the air he can make it VERY hard for them to get back down because he can control the platforms so well. Up tilts, ftilts, fsmashes, up smashes, and all of his aerials will easily hit his opponent when above him. This is normally a good CP for any opponent and his best neutral, abuse this stage.
2. Final Destination
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197831
Rating: 7/10
My Summary:
This is a pretty good stage for Marth, but the main reason that is is worse for him than Battlefield is the lack of platforms. There a few people you shouldn't play here against (the main one being Diddy, you should probably ban it against him) and the lip is annoying, but once you get used to avoiding hitting it, it is fine, just don't get careless while recovering and you will be fine. The ceiling is pretty high, and other than that it's pretty basic, so this isn't great for Marth, but it isn't bad either.
3. Smashville
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198054
Rating: 7.5/10
My Summary:
This stage is pretty neutral for Marth, the platform doesn't help you that much, but it can help people like Ike with bad horizontal recoveries by letting them camp on the side where it is so they can use it to recover on if they get hit offstage, so try to stop this.. If you personally like this stage, go to town on it, but it won't give Marth any big advantages.
4. Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198228
Rating: 5/10
My Summary: This stage is weird. I don't like it a lot, and the middle platform tilting can get very annoying as it can put people out of range for attacks that you could hit with there earlier in a match. It is very unpredictable, and therefore it isn't the best thing to CP. Also, the random rising ghost platform can be a very big help for you or your opponent, and is pretty much random, all you know is that it comes up once per season iirc. I don't recommend CP'ing it unless you personally like it. This is a neutral unfortunately so you are going to have to play here occasionally, unless you strike it all the time (which I do lol).
COUNTERPICKS
5. Delfino Plaza
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198303
Rating: 9/10
My Summary:
This stage is great for Marth. You can recover up from under the stage if you want to, and you have multiple spots for a potential Dtilt infinite once off the transporter. The ceiling from the top platform of the flying thing that you start on is low, so tipper Uairs can get you some early kills on lighter characters. DB near the edge of some of the walk-offs once off the transporter can be deadly at mid to high percentages as well.
Taken from a post by Pierce7D:
TBH, you're most advantageous when you land. Always try and fall off the traveler prematurely to land on whatever section of the plaza is below before your opponent, to initiate free juggling. Use the walls to wall release. Remember at the area with the shine sprite bell, there are no ledges, but you can rise through the floor. The stage shifts are supposedly random (I gotta check this). Don't try too many floor attack tricks, but remember that a Dancing Blade will allow you to re-land on the stage from under the floor without using Dolphin Slash sometimes. Spike people that fall in the water, or try to attack you from under the floor of the traveler. Don't fight Samus here. Caution against D3.
6. Lylat Cruise
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198742
Rating: 7/10
Summary:
Taken from a post by Dr Peepee:
The high ceiling and (at least fairly) wide edges would seem good for Marth to recover, but I find myself struggling much more to get kills here, especially against D3 and Snake, who are pretty tough to kill anyway. In my opinion, Marth needs to get some of those characters off and keep them off early, before the tide turns (such as MK, Snake or D3). If those characters can survive longer, that just means that Marth may end up having to work and get more hits in before both Marth and his opponent are at equal opportunities to kill each other.
Against pretty much everyone else, I would say that Marth is good here due to platform control and being able to use the tilt of the stage to his advantage when edgeguarding (and maybe recovering).
So...in summary: stage is too big vs characters you need to kill early, but it's good vs pretty much everyone else, SOLID edit: especially spacies.
7. Jungle Japes
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199613
Rating: 4/10
Summary: Taken from a post by Crazn137:
Ridiculously high ceiling. Makes killing off the top almost impossible, but I guess that's fine against characters that kill primarily off the top. The middle platform is nice for uair/tilt/smash. Fthrow > Fsmash is going to be killing at ridiculously low percents if you can manage it off the sides. Neutral Dancing Blades is also a nice move off the sides at somewhat higher percents. The water isn't too much of a problem off the left side of the screen. Just double jump out and dolphin slash onto a ledge. Something kind of nice I like to do when my opponent has complete control of the match...If I'm on the left side of the screen, I'll try and get myself into the water to reset the match with me on the right side of the screen. Doable closer to the middle, but risky. Marth is going to be dieing pretty low of the sides, but try and monopolize on the water and platform as much as you can.
Not a very reliable CP against people that kill off the side, but I enjoy the stage SOLID Edit: because I am a n00b. <.<
8. Castle Siege
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199812
Rating: 7/10
My Summary: I really like this stage, and it is pretty good for Marth. One the second transformation, watch out near the ledge or you will be killed at as low as 0%. You can use this to your advantage as well, but be careful. This is a good CP against people who like to recover under the stage, like Pit, because they cannot go under on any transformation. Be careful during when the stage is transforming from the third back to the first, because if you don't stay towards the middle, you can end up off the ledge by a lot.
I found a weird glitch here a few days ago as well: after the first starting place on the castle, I was on the ledge and the stage transformed, and I got stuck under the place where you stand during transformations and I lost a stock. Be careful of this as well.
Don't take D3 here, you're dead second place.
9. Halberd
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200298
Rating: 8/10
Summary: Taken From a Post by Feardragon64:
As said before, characters with glide do better here than I'd like. The edges are a bit too far so it gets annoying at times since Marth can't utilize it to his own recovery. IT also makes K.O.'s more difficult. Star K.O.'ing is also annoying since the top of the stage is high(not ridiculously high, but enough to give Marth next to no reliable kill moves).
As always, controlling underneath the platform is controlling the stage. A majority of the time will probably be spent on the moving platform anyways. I find the fact that you can travel through the center stage's platform annoying as many characters can get marth from his weakest point while recovering....below. It's nothing to worry about in terms of getting hit really, but played right it can force you to give up a strategically sound position. That's bad.
When the platform lands(oh god random stage interferences lol) it's like final d, only a laser fires off every so often. To my experience the BEST way to hook some characters into the laser is grab releasing at mid/high percents. I will not lie, I've grabbed released an MK into this(took some good timing, and it feels great and they mash buttons to get out before the laser gets off, only to get K.O.'d because he's so light. Other than that, play it like Final D with shorter off-stage edges and no way to go under the stage(how often do people actually do this minus the occasional MK that up+b's a little too low).
10. Rainbow Cruise
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201287
Rating: 5/10
My Summary: This is a bad stage for Marth in general, but it can be quite good against some characters. This should be banned against MK, he destroys you on this stage. If you like this stage, you should only use it against Snake, IC's, Olimar, Diddy, and Falco, for they do worse on this stage then you do. Only CP this stage if you like it, and it should most definitely not be used against MK.
11. Luigi's Mansion
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5658063#post5658063
Rating: 7/10
My Summary: This is pretty good for Marth, but it doesn't help against any of Marth's disadvantages so defeats the purpose of a counter pick (ZMT said this). DON'T USE AGAINST MK! Other than that, boundaries make it annoying to kill from the stage, so gimping is the best way to kill quickly.
12. Pokemon Stadium 1 (Melee)
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201879
Rating: 7/10
My Summary: You have multiple Dtilt locks here, but you can't recover well at all and it isn't that great for Marth in general. That's really about it for this stage... I like it.
13. Corneria
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202796
Rating: 6.5/10
Nightshine's Summary:
This stage is average for Marth, it's not one of his best but it's not one of his worst either. The lower area on the tail end of the Great Fox is where Marth is good. You can get low percentage kills with tipped hits towards the right. It's the lowest part other than the breakable gun so getting killed upwards is harder. The tail of the Great Fox provides a possibility of a Dtilt infinite for Marth. The Arwings have a possibility of shooting you and they can mess up what you're doing but that also goes for whoever your fighting. Don't go breaking the front guns. You might end up killing yourself and then your down by a stock. Snakes Utilt+low ceiling+Marth not being good against people below him = very bad for Marth. Beware of Snake. Advantages for Marth may mean advantages for others as well, because others, like Diddy with his Ftilt, can have infinites under the tail.
14. Norfair
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5764237#post5764237
Rating: 6/10
Summary; Taken From a Post by VietGeek:
Serious: Everything here is a platform. This gives you a lot of room to recover, ledgestall (planking anyone?), and to control the stage. You'd probably want to practice tilting your control stick properly to do Dtilts on the platforms without doing dairs. Don't CP this against MK...ever.
Choose this for characters that really only kill well off the top (it has a high ceiling) or for D3.
The cold truth: Dude, it's ****ing called Norfair. <_<
15. Brinstar
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5795297#post5795297
Rating: 6/10
Summary; Taken From a Post by Nightshine:
SOLIDEDIT: [PIERCE]Eh...[/PIERCE] I don't mind the stage but I don't play on it that much. You can get stuck on this stage. If you try dashing to the left on the spot where you can break the stage in two you'll get stuck. That being said splitting the stage is somewhat tempting. Breaking the parts that hold the platforms down is also sorta tempting. The lava always rising makes for interesting fighting SOLIDEDIT: because it can force you to go to the top platform, where you can kill pretty easily. Good music I love the Brinstar Depths song.
For Marth its goodish I guess =/.
16. Frigate Orpheon
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5821314#post5821314
Rating: 6/10
Summary; Taken From a Post by Feardragon64:
****ing
Stage
Rotation.
Other than that and moving platforms that never seem to help me when I need them to, it's a fairly normal stage. Take each stage set-up as it is and adjust accordingly. Also, whenever either I'm at a high percent or I'm going for a kill, I always try to stay on the left and keep my opponent on the right just because the right side's furthest platform doesn't have an edge. That makes for easier gimps for Marth and a much harder recovery.
I'm editing this sorta.
Marth Stage Tier List (Cuz I’m bored)
Ballin Tier
Battlefield
Delfino Plaza
S Tier
Halberd
A Tier
Smashville
Lylat
Siege
FD
PS1
Mansion
B Tier
Corneria
Brinstar
Frigate
Norfair
C Tier
Yoshi’s
RC
D Tier
Japes
CREDITZ:
Everyone who posted in my threads, especially all the people I quoted, I hope that was OK!
NEUTRALS:
1. Battlefield
Link: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197658
Rating: 9.99/10
My Summary: This is one of Marth's best stages. the platforms can really help him out against campers because he can stay above them on the platforms. It doesn't really have a super high ceiling or anything so that is not a problem. If an opponent is on the top platform and you hit them with a tipper Uair, it can kill pretty early on most characters (I can test this later). This doesn't gimp your recovery either, so use this a lot. It doesn't really hurt you against any characters, so this is one is a very solid (pun definitely intended) stage for Marth.
Steel:
This is basically Marth's home. Because it is an overall small stage Marth can maintain control of it the entire time. Because it is small it can also make it anti-camper, not that Marth really has much of a problem with it anyway.
Platforms. If Marth gets his opponent in the air he can make it VERY hard for them to get back down because he can control the platforms so well. Up tilts, ftilts, fsmashes, up smashes, and all of his aerials will easily hit his opponent when above him. This is normally a good CP for any opponent and his best neutral, abuse this stage.
2. Final Destination
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197831
Rating: 7/10
My Summary:
This is a pretty good stage for Marth, but the main reason that is is worse for him than Battlefield is the lack of platforms. There a few people you shouldn't play here against (the main one being Diddy, you should probably ban it against him) and the lip is annoying, but once you get used to avoiding hitting it, it is fine, just don't get careless while recovering and you will be fine. The ceiling is pretty high, and other than that it's pretty basic, so this isn't great for Marth, but it isn't bad either.
3. Smashville
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198054
Rating: 7.5/10
My Summary:
This stage is pretty neutral for Marth, the platform doesn't help you that much, but it can help people like Ike with bad horizontal recoveries by letting them camp on the side where it is so they can use it to recover on if they get hit offstage, so try to stop this.. If you personally like this stage, go to town on it, but it won't give Marth any big advantages.
4. Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198228
Rating: 5/10
My Summary: This stage is weird. I don't like it a lot, and the middle platform tilting can get very annoying as it can put people out of range for attacks that you could hit with there earlier in a match. It is very unpredictable, and therefore it isn't the best thing to CP. Also, the random rising ghost platform can be a very big help for you or your opponent, and is pretty much random, all you know is that it comes up once per season iirc. I don't recommend CP'ing it unless you personally like it. This is a neutral unfortunately so you are going to have to play here occasionally, unless you strike it all the time (which I do lol).
COUNTERPICKS
5. Delfino Plaza
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198303
Rating: 9/10
My Summary:
This stage is great for Marth. You can recover up from under the stage if you want to, and you have multiple spots for a potential Dtilt infinite once off the transporter. The ceiling from the top platform of the flying thing that you start on is low, so tipper Uairs can get you some early kills on lighter characters. DB near the edge of some of the walk-offs once off the transporter can be deadly at mid to high percentages as well.
Taken from a post by Pierce7D:
TBH, you're most advantageous when you land. Always try and fall off the traveler prematurely to land on whatever section of the plaza is below before your opponent, to initiate free juggling. Use the walls to wall release. Remember at the area with the shine sprite bell, there are no ledges, but you can rise through the floor. The stage shifts are supposedly random (I gotta check this). Don't try too many floor attack tricks, but remember that a Dancing Blade will allow you to re-land on the stage from under the floor without using Dolphin Slash sometimes. Spike people that fall in the water, or try to attack you from under the floor of the traveler. Don't fight Samus here. Caution against D3.
6. Lylat Cruise
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198742
Rating: 7/10
Summary:
Taken from a post by Dr Peepee:
The high ceiling and (at least fairly) wide edges would seem good for Marth to recover, but I find myself struggling much more to get kills here, especially against D3 and Snake, who are pretty tough to kill anyway. In my opinion, Marth needs to get some of those characters off and keep them off early, before the tide turns (such as MK, Snake or D3). If those characters can survive longer, that just means that Marth may end up having to work and get more hits in before both Marth and his opponent are at equal opportunities to kill each other.
Against pretty much everyone else, I would say that Marth is good here due to platform control and being able to use the tilt of the stage to his advantage when edgeguarding (and maybe recovering).
So...in summary: stage is too big vs characters you need to kill early, but it's good vs pretty much everyone else, SOLID edit: especially spacies.
7. Jungle Japes
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199613
Rating: 4/10
Summary: Taken from a post by Crazn137:
Ridiculously high ceiling. Makes killing off the top almost impossible, but I guess that's fine against characters that kill primarily off the top. The middle platform is nice for uair/tilt/smash. Fthrow > Fsmash is going to be killing at ridiculously low percents if you can manage it off the sides. Neutral Dancing Blades is also a nice move off the sides at somewhat higher percents. The water isn't too much of a problem off the left side of the screen. Just double jump out and dolphin slash onto a ledge. Something kind of nice I like to do when my opponent has complete control of the match...If I'm on the left side of the screen, I'll try and get myself into the water to reset the match with me on the right side of the screen. Doable closer to the middle, but risky. Marth is going to be dieing pretty low of the sides, but try and monopolize on the water and platform as much as you can.
Not a very reliable CP against people that kill off the side, but I enjoy the stage SOLID Edit: because I am a n00b. <.<
8. Castle Siege
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199812
Rating: 7/10
My Summary: I really like this stage, and it is pretty good for Marth. One the second transformation, watch out near the ledge or you will be killed at as low as 0%. You can use this to your advantage as well, but be careful. This is a good CP against people who like to recover under the stage, like Pit, because they cannot go under on any transformation. Be careful during when the stage is transforming from the third back to the first, because if you don't stay towards the middle, you can end up off the ledge by a lot.
I found a weird glitch here a few days ago as well: after the first starting place on the castle, I was on the ledge and the stage transformed, and I got stuck under the place where you stand during transformations and I lost a stock. Be careful of this as well.
Don't take D3 here, you're dead second place.
9. Halberd
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200298
Rating: 8/10
Summary: Taken From a Post by Feardragon64:
As said before, characters with glide do better here than I'd like. The edges are a bit too far so it gets annoying at times since Marth can't utilize it to his own recovery. IT also makes K.O.'s more difficult. Star K.O.'ing is also annoying since the top of the stage is high(not ridiculously high, but enough to give Marth next to no reliable kill moves).
As always, controlling underneath the platform is controlling the stage. A majority of the time will probably be spent on the moving platform anyways. I find the fact that you can travel through the center stage's platform annoying as many characters can get marth from his weakest point while recovering....below. It's nothing to worry about in terms of getting hit really, but played right it can force you to give up a strategically sound position. That's bad.
When the platform lands(oh god random stage interferences lol) it's like final d, only a laser fires off every so often. To my experience the BEST way to hook some characters into the laser is grab releasing at mid/high percents. I will not lie, I've grabbed released an MK into this(took some good timing, and it feels great and they mash buttons to get out before the laser gets off, only to get K.O.'d because he's so light. Other than that, play it like Final D with shorter off-stage edges and no way to go under the stage(how often do people actually do this minus the occasional MK that up+b's a little too low).
10. Rainbow Cruise
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201287
Rating: 5/10
My Summary: This is a bad stage for Marth in general, but it can be quite good against some characters. This should be banned against MK, he destroys you on this stage. If you like this stage, you should only use it against Snake, IC's, Olimar, Diddy, and Falco, for they do worse on this stage then you do. Only CP this stage if you like it, and it should most definitely not be used against MK.
11. Luigi's Mansion
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5658063#post5658063
Rating: 7/10
My Summary: This is pretty good for Marth, but it doesn't help against any of Marth's disadvantages so defeats the purpose of a counter pick (ZMT said this). DON'T USE AGAINST MK! Other than that, boundaries make it annoying to kill from the stage, so gimping is the best way to kill quickly.
12. Pokemon Stadium 1 (Melee)
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201879
Rating: 7/10
My Summary: You have multiple Dtilt locks here, but you can't recover well at all and it isn't that great for Marth in general. That's really about it for this stage... I like it.
13. Corneria
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202796
Rating: 6.5/10
Nightshine's Summary:
This stage is average for Marth, it's not one of his best but it's not one of his worst either. The lower area on the tail end of the Great Fox is where Marth is good. You can get low percentage kills with tipped hits towards the right. It's the lowest part other than the breakable gun so getting killed upwards is harder. The tail of the Great Fox provides a possibility of a Dtilt infinite for Marth. The Arwings have a possibility of shooting you and they can mess up what you're doing but that also goes for whoever your fighting. Don't go breaking the front guns. You might end up killing yourself and then your down by a stock. Snakes Utilt+low ceiling+Marth not being good against people below him = very bad for Marth. Beware of Snake. Advantages for Marth may mean advantages for others as well, because others, like Diddy with his Ftilt, can have infinites under the tail.
14. Norfair
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5764237#post5764237
Rating: 6/10
Summary; Taken From a Post by VietGeek:
Serious: Everything here is a platform. This gives you a lot of room to recover, ledgestall (planking anyone?), and to control the stage. You'd probably want to practice tilting your control stick properly to do Dtilts on the platforms without doing dairs. Don't CP this against MK...ever.
Choose this for characters that really only kill well off the top (it has a high ceiling) or for D3.
The cold truth: Dude, it's ****ing called Norfair. <_<
15. Brinstar
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5795297#post5795297
Rating: 6/10
Summary; Taken From a Post by Nightshine:
SOLIDEDIT: [PIERCE]Eh...[/PIERCE] I don't mind the stage but I don't play on it that much. You can get stuck on this stage. If you try dashing to the left on the spot where you can break the stage in two you'll get stuck. That being said splitting the stage is somewhat tempting. Breaking the parts that hold the platforms down is also sorta tempting. The lava always rising makes for interesting fighting SOLIDEDIT: because it can force you to go to the top platform, where you can kill pretty easily. Good music I love the Brinstar Depths song.
For Marth its goodish I guess =/.
16. Frigate Orpheon
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5821314#post5821314
Rating: 6/10
Summary; Taken From a Post by Feardragon64:
****ing
Stage
Rotation.
Other than that and moving platforms that never seem to help me when I need them to, it's a fairly normal stage. Take each stage set-up as it is and adjust accordingly. Also, whenever either I'm at a high percent or I'm going for a kill, I always try to stay on the left and keep my opponent on the right just because the right side's furthest platform doesn't have an edge. That makes for easier gimps for Marth and a much harder recovery.
I'm editing this sorta.
Marth Stage Tier List (Cuz I’m bored)
Ballin Tier
Battlefield
Delfino Plaza
S Tier
Halberd
A Tier
Smashville
Lylat
Siege
FD
PS1
Mansion
B Tier
Corneria
Brinstar
Frigate
Norfair
C Tier
Yoshi’s
RC
D Tier
Japes
CREDITZ:
Everyone who posted in my threads, especially all the people I quoted, I hope that was OK!
! lol I love spear pillar for that challenge yet its banned because of it >.> seriously someone should have a banned stages tourny and see how many of the people who are pros live on them. Its in the game use it, practice on it, LIVE ON IT!! In melee Brinstar Depths was my home lol