Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[KAOSTAR]

you will only get use to playing fox vs people. but you can at least practice offense.

so its worth it, I promise its better than nothing.

 

[genkaku]

I should know this, but do you have to full-press L/R for an L cancel, or is a light-press enough?

 

[Geist]

You just have to press it lightly. You can even mash it, it's not like teching where you have a 20 frame wait before you can do it again.

 

[lorddoomXD]

How many frames do you get to L cancel after Falco shorthops, uses his nair/dair/fair/uair/bair, and finally fast falls?
I'm having problems doing L cancels (rarely more than 3 consecutive hits in training mode). I can pillar around 50% of the time and wave dash around 80%/90% but cannot shffl properly.

 

[Kanelol]

I think most L-cancel windows are like 6 frames upon landing or something

it's really just about button mashing when you're about to hit the ground

practice practice practice

 

[something_good]

i need to know how to properly ledge-hop because when i try it sometimes i don't pop up high enough to land back on the edge so i fall to my death.

and sometimes when i press away from the stage and jump link ends up doing some sort of backflip making it impossible to do something like a dair or rang toss and survive.

any help?

 

[L__]

practice makes perfect

 

[Seikend]

i need to know how to properly ledge-hop because when i try it sometimes i don't pop up high enough to land back on the edge so i fall to my death.

and sometimes when i press away from the stage and jump link ends up doing some sort of backflip making it impossible to do something like a dair or rang toss and survive.

any help?

Well to ledgehop there's no delay between when you let go of the ledge and when you can jump. So you basically want to press jump as soon as you can. Don't bother trying to learn to get onto the stage to start with, just try letting go, and jumping on the spot so you regrab the ledge. Once you've got the timing so you can do it consistently, add the movement towards the stage so you land on the stage.

Also, you can let go of the ledge by tapping the cstick away. For some people it's easier, and it makes sure you can't do the backflip.

So experiment with the C stick and control stick, see what one works for you.

 

[something_good]

Well to ledgehop there's no delay between when you let go of the ledge and when you can jump. So you basically want to press jump as soon as you can. Don't bother trying to learn to get onto the stage to start with, just try letting go, and jumping on the spot so you regrab the ledge. Once you've got the timing so you can do it consistently, add the movement towards the stage so you land on the stage.

Also, you can let go of the ledge by tapping the cstick away. For some people it's easier, and it makes sure you can't do the backflip.

So experiment with the C stick and control stick, see what one works for you.

wow thanks! before i wasn't pressing the jump immidiatly after i dropped but i am now understanding it. i do like using the c stick then jumping with the control stick but i unno i will keep trying these in training and then try them in a battle to see what feels more natural

anyways thanks a bunch i looked everywhere to try to find something like that lol

 

[Sraigux]

If you use the c-stick to possibly ASDI into the ground and DI upwards in case the knockback is too high what happens? Does the c-stick also control DI? Or would you hit the ground and then DI?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

That is the perfect example of when to double stick DI. Cstick overrides the ASDI so you can ASDI down and tech. By DIing with the control stick you also are safe if you don't CC tech.

To answer your questions directly: Cstick only controls ASDI. Technically, you would hit the ground and then DI, but since you hit the ground you won't be negatively effected by the DI input

 

[KAOSTAR]

If you are planning on just ASDI, and then trying normal DI then its ok. But if you plan on SDI then you have to make a choice.[COLLAPSE=with SDI]Dont do it! Its one or the other. I dont reccomend playing guessing games with your DI, either you learn to DI, or you die.

If you DI up and towards Im assuming since u want to tech, must be attempting to survive. ASDI is a single 1/2 input of SDI prioritized by the C-stick, If you get just 1 SDI input then you have already ****ed up because all you did was cut your survival DI in half.

Most likely you still wont tech because instead of putting all your eggz in 1 basket, aka Down into the ground attempting to tech, you moved .6 up, and .3 down. Its just a waste.

Id much rather take my chances with .9 survival DI then try to stick tech with .3 survival 0.o


You move .3 the width of jiggz with ASDI, and .6 that width with a SDI input.[/COLLAPSE]

 

[biolizard89]

This may be a common knowledge question here, so I'll post in the FAQ thread.

I'm looking at the 6-player mode in Melee USA v1.0 which can be accessed by an AR or Ocarina code. I'm trying to find the controller data for P5 and P6 when they are set to human-controlled. P5 was easy to find; I'm able to control P5 by poking addresses. P6, however, behaves strangely. It seems that the game seems to have two sets of variables using the same location in memory. One set of variables is P6's analog data (Control Stick, C Stick, and L/R analogs), while the other set of variables seems to contain some pointers to some data that appears unrelated.

This is visible in-game because when those pointers are read as analog data, they cause Player 6 to appear to be constantly shielding for minutes at a time. (Poking those variables cause the game to crash due to accessing an invalid memory location.)

So, my question is: has anyone else observed that Player 6 when human seems to be constantly shielding? Does the version of Melee have any relation to this behavior, or maybe the exact Debug mode settings?

If anyone remembers me from a few years ago, yes, I was involved in the GCARS-CS / ControlSim project, and yes, this work may result in some fun tools being developed using similar technology to ControlSim. If tools are developed, they will be Wii-compatible.

(If you would prefer I post this in a separate topic, let me know. I really have no clue whether this is common knowledge in the SmashBoards community.)

Thanks!

 

[spider_sense]

I have a question about SDI and ASDI. Can anybody give me a full explanation on both, what's the difference and how to do them? Thanks in advance; I appreciate it.

 

[Pi]

I have a question about SDI and ASDI. Can anybody give me a full explanation on both, what's the difference and how to do them? Thanks in advance; I appreciate it.

ASDI takes place on the frame immediately after hitlag
hitlag being the time when you are 'stuck' in the 'getting hit' animation
ASDI can be influenced by both the control stick, and the Cstick, with the Cstick having priority
To perform ASDI, all you need to do is be holding a direction on either the Cstick or the control stick when hitlag ends

SDI can take place on every frame of hitlag (except for maybe the first frame? not sure)
it can only be influenced by the control stick
and since it's measured on a frame to frame basis, you cannot sdi in the same direction twice, the control stick must register a different direction before you can repeat a direction of SDI

I believe there are 4? points on the control stick through which you can move without resetting to neutral to input a change in direction, but you can SDI theoretically in many, many directions.

iirc, both SDI and ASDI move you the same ammount of space see below

to add onto that, regular survival/escape DI can only be influenced by the control stick

 

[mers]

ASDI only moves you half as far as one SDI input.

 

[X1-12]

After you powershield a projectile, can you do the same things right away as you could if you PS'ed a physical attack? Like normally you can cancel a PS lag into any attack, can you do that after PS'ing a projectile?

Also which of these, if any, can you do out of a Powershield:

Run
Walk
Jump

 

[KAOSTAR]

Rock crock posted this: can you confirm or deny? I was just a bit confused when I read your .6 w of Jiggs for SDI and .3 for ASDI

"Smash DI in the corner directions moves you farther than in cardinal directions. That's just the way it is. Weird."
"the corners move you both farther horizontally and farther vertically than do the cardinal directions. If you're using the c-stick for ASDI, it should be in the corners."

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/516492-super-smash-bros-melee?search=tech

He may have gotten that impression from TAS things that sometimes do a SDI each frame by alternating between diagonals, but that's done to satisfy the stick movement needed between each SDI rather then each one actually going further that way. If you want to go to the right you can't SDI full right every frame or you'd just be holding it, and going full right and skipping every other frame is less distance than alternating diagonals. Alternating between like 10 degrees above full right to 10 below full right would actually get you further to the right than either of those.

But yeah, I'm pretty certain a diagonal SDI doesn't cover any more total distance than a cardinal one, and it definitely doesn't cover more distance in that cardinal direction (it would in fact be less effective if you want to move in a cardinal direction).

Lol yea I didnt think about SDI the same direction every frame is holding it. You still need that 1 frame to input the button. but yes thank you makes perfect sense.

Do you know how many directions the GC controller has on its stick? I guess more importantly is 10 degrees how far you need to move to get a seperate input?

There are more than you'd want to try counting really. You basically move at the near exact angle you are pointing the stick when it is triggered (same with the very beginning part of an airdodge's movement). It's not limited to a small number of directions like aimable up-Bs.

The 10 degrees thing just comes from where SDIs can trigger from rotation. It's based on 4 specific points located very close to each cardinal direction for clockwise, and another 4 opposite of those for counterclockwise. To trigger a SDI by rotating along the outside you need to cross over an arrow for that particular direction.

The difference between them is much smaller if you're trying to go in an overall cardinal direction (about 20 degrees) and can go closer to a straight line with the SDIs, but it's much greater if you want to move diagonally (about 70 degrees).

Oh, very interesting. So are you saying that Rotating from straight up to straight down will get you the initial up, + 2 arrow points=3 SDI or do the 8 ways count also = a total of 7 SDI inputs?

And if it were frame perfect could you still SDI in ANY direction neutral and do another input, or are those 16 points the only ones in which you can SDI at all?

Meaning its just harder to SDI diagonally just in general, and the best way to SDI to the right most would be smashing right, and alternate your movement to each arrow?

sorry its so many questions

Yeah, if you smash up, then rotate to straight down you can get 3 SDIs (the actual directions you go on the 2nd/3rd SDIs will depend on where it's pointing on the frame the game sees you've gone past an arrow point).

If you go neutral inbetween you can SDI in any of the like 9001+ directions. Going from neutral you will be able to trigger a SDI by moving the stick into any part of the orange area. Also the distance you are pointing the stick doesn't change the distance (there's no slight SDI); it just takes the overall angle/slope. You can SDI in tons of directions through rotation as well, just not those that are within the same quadrant you're currently in. Entering a different quadrant is essentially what you're doing by passing over those arrows, which might be easier to understand/visualize than the arrows.

It's harder to move in a diagonal direction with multiple SDIs because it's the farthest away from the quadrants' borders/arrows which you need to go to to get another SDI without going back to neutral, so the directions you end up getting out of those SDIs every frame are far off from the direction you actually want to go in (going up, right, up, right... compared to right&slightly down, right&slightly up, right&slightly down... when trying to go to the right).

Some **** about SDI and rotational DI

 

[Pi]

After you powershield a projectile, can you do the same things right away as you could if you PS'ed a physical attack? Like normally you can cancel a PS lag into any attack, can you do that after PS'ing a projectile?

Also which of these, if any, can you do out of a Powershield:

Run
Walk
Jump

Powershielding a projectile does nothing but reflect that projectile

so no

And I'm fairly certain that when you powershield a physical attack, the only thing that it activates is that you are then able to cancel your shield drop animation (because it will still take effect if you choose not to cancel it)

As far as jumping goes, you can always jump out of your shield drop animation so nothing changes there
but powershielding will allow you to grab out of your shield drop animation, but you could just hold your shield and press A any way

You can't walk/run out of your shield drop animation after a powershield

you can tilt, side B, etc

but powershielding does not reduce shield hit stun, so the only reason to powershield would be to essentially counter attack them


Hm
Just tested a bit
The window for cancelling your shield drop animation with an attack stays open for 3 frames (as in you drop your shield after the 3rd frame) after your shield comes out (visibly) after the powershield

i only tested with mario & links jabs, but i did test with powershielding on both the 1st frame, and the last frame (of the window for powershielding), and was able to cancel the SDA no more than 3 frames after my shield became visible AFTER the powershield

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

are you sure you can't drop your shield after powershielding a projectile? then how does peach powershield fox's lasers repeatedly and also move during this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdUeaC7M3oo#t=1m36

edit- or is peach powershielding into jump and using double jump to land immediately then powershield again?


edit2- Off topic, but i remember reading that you must take the control stick off of up in order to meteor cancel, but BigD said you could just hold it and me and kels tested and thats true. What bothers me is i thought it was magus himself that said you must return it to neutral in order to meteor cancel....

 

[Pi]

yea that video always bothered me...let me go test some things

fox's blaster shoots every 10 frames

peach's airborne on frame 6, can DJ on frame 6, lands with no landing lag on frame 7, can act on frame 8, Pshield comes out first frame, reflects for two frames

so basically peach can pshield every 8 frames
._.

i'm guessing he's jumping then since lasers give no hitlag/shieldhitstun (i think? pretty sure)

 

[KAOSTAR]

I thought she was just SDI(shield DI), all the lasers towards fox and also walking a lil when the shield drops or something like that 0.o

idk tho, Ill try to run some tests as well

 

[Pi]

shield dropping and then walking would be too slow, i think it's around or exactly at 14 frames for most/all characters
not sure
and i don't thing lasers have shieldhitstun, not foxes at least

 

[KAOSTAR]

You can 100% for sure shield DI them tho, maybe like 1 frame or something idk.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

its not shield DI, you can clearly see its her jump animation.

 

[mers]

You can definitely shield DI Fox's lasers. There's an Armada video that starts off with him shielding some Fox's rapid blaster, and he slides like a quarter of the way across FD before he releases his shield. I wish I could find that video.

 

[KAOSTAR]

in that case peach is most likely shielding and djc her jump oos.

but shield and take fox lasers u can slide left or right at will. infinite shield code says high.

there would be no reason for less in a perfect control video.

 

[linkoninja]

Sup guys I'm a new player. Hoping to start coming to tournaments soon.
My name is SeeJ
I main Falcon, and my secondary is Marth.
I play some other characters but just for the lulz.

 

[Ocho(*8*)]

after you miss a tech on the ground, how long do you have to lay there before you can start to roll/ stand up?

 

[Kanelol]

there's a bouncing animation, but if i had to guess (which is all i ever do)


17 frames

 

[KAOSTAR]

after you miss a tech on the ground, how long do you have to lay there before you can start to roll/ stand up?

If 0 is when u hit the ground.

you cant input anything until frame 25, which means u can start an action on frame 26. More importantly if you do a get up attack or something that when your invincibility will start.

 

[Ocho(*8*)]

thanks, thats good to know.

so just under half a second

 

[Pi]

don't getup attacks buffer for xx frames though

 

[KAOSTAR]

Yea, I do remember that things like getup attacks, and jumps out of stun or something like that would buffer for like 10 frames or something..idr the actual number.

But when I tested this I hit the ground frame by frame..on frame 0 I was grounded and some frames went by and I bounced up etc etc.

But I alternated on every frame pushing A and then B, which means I input the getup attack on every single frame without holding a button tho, and it wouldnt start until 26. Ill find out how to buffer or whatever tho, I dont think it does it any faster, just u can do it as soon as its available without having to time it

All I know is that you hit the ground which is a process including the bounce and after you land again u are in ground wait...thats when u can action rolls, getups, etc.

When u get thunders or jab reset, u get hit and then bounce again cuz its not strong enough to knock you off the ground, so its like missing a tech all over again. Then u go bak into ground wait, which is where u still input getup attack etc, but it doesnt last very long and it forces u into stand if u dont input anything. Im gonna practice rolling out of thunders.

 

[TemPesT-]

Question regarding Doraki Jumping..

I can't seem to Doraki with Falco and Samus, but every other wall jumping character i can manage to do first try. is it impossible for these 2 to Doraki jump? is there a reason why they can't?

Edit: i didn't try falcon either, but i am pretty sure i HAVE done it with him before using his upb... and i can do his mash away and instantly jump method that causes you to lose your dbl jump... but

 

[Pi]

^ wat

 

[Kanelol]

i feel like some people aren't sure what Doraki jumping is exactly

 

[TemPesT-]

i feel like some people aren't sure what Doraki jumping is exactly

well lets inform them...

if you double jump so that at the peak of your jump with certain characters (mostly anyone who can wall jump) on FD, and then tap/mash away from the edge, your character will do a wall jump, and save their double jump..

captain falcon is kind of an exception, he MIGHT be able to Doraki, as i think i have done it on accident a few times, but idk how to consistently. He's an exception however, because he can mash away and hit jump at the same time, and get a pseudo Doraki jump thing, but does not preserve his double jump when he does it.

The characters I CAN do Doraki's with...

Fox, Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Falcon (pseudo way).

but i CAN'T do it with Falco, Samus, or Falcon (the way to preserve his jump).

Is there a reason some characters can't do it? Is there a secret to falcons, and does it relate to a reverse upb (i was told thats the only way to even come close to a "sweet spot" which i think is what is needed for a true Doraki)?

 

[Doval]

well lets inform them...

if you double jump so that at the peak of your jump with certain characters (mostly anyone who can wall jump) on FD, and then tap/mash away from the edge, your character will do a wall jump, and save their double jump..

Fascinating. I've been playing Melee competitively since 2005 and I've seen this happen a couple of times with Fox, but I could never for the life of me figure out what triggers it.

Anyhow, fooling around in Action Replay to see the FD's real surfaces and having free reign with the camera, I noticed the problem. Samus and Falcon have long enough arms that when they let go of the edge at Final Destination, their bodies start freefalling from below the edge wall instead of next to it - there's no surface to wallkick. But if you take them to a stage like Fourside, where the edge wall continues downwards indefinitely, both of them can Doraki just fine.

I was able to Doraki with Falcon just fine in Fourside - I'm not sure how you're getting this fake Doraki that doesn't restore your jump. Also, apparently Captain Falcon is so awesome that he can actually Doraki Jump regardless of whether he latched on at the peak of his jump - I've been able to get him to Doraki in Fourside simply by hugging the edge while falling from above. It's probably because his ledgegrabbing box is positioned unusually high (it starts from his helmet up) while he's jumping, and being so tall, his body makes good contact with the side of the stage before he grabs the edge.

Falco doesn't seem to be able to Doraki at all, even in Fourside, which is baffling, because the height at which he lets go of the edge, and his double jump animations, are practically identical to Fox's.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i want to know the reasons behind banning stages such as mute city and poke floats so i was wondering if their is a thread that someone can direct me to so i can see the reasons behind this.