King5280
Smash Journeyman
i would assume ledgehop. so down or back and then jump to the stage. for grounded options waveland.
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Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!
- Thread starter DtJ Jungle
- Start date
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
depends on your character i think. but with most, it's probably just a ledge hop (let go of the edge, use your double jump to get on stage).
zneffy
Smash Cadet
Looking for people to play smash melee with in ny...!
King5280
Smash Journeyman
head to the regional boards
_eternal
Smash Apprentice
Are the frames for techrolls/missed techs different for each character and/or do we have that data anywhere? Don't think I saw it in the character frame data threads.
Also, how long does it take for Pokemon Stadium to transform?
Also, how long does it take for Pokemon Stadium to transform?
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Super doodle man has a listings of a lot of stuff http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/frames.html
Including the times for rolls:
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/Frames_-_Roll.xls
Including the times for rolls:
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/Frames_-_Roll.xls
_eternal
Smash Apprentice
Thanks. Are tech rolls the same as regular rolls then? What about teching in place?
stelzig
Smash Lord
Techs & Getups Frame Data: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5896012
_eternal
Smash Apprentice
Ah, thanks! You also unintentionally answered questions I forgot I had about throws and weight 
Just continuing http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=318064 thread in here regarding wave dash/ shrine/land
Gea:
Luigi is just mentioned because his goes the farthest, not because his timing is the best. Don't mash the L button, time it.
1. Pick a jump button you like. X or Y. I prefer Y.
2. Press jump
3. Almost immediately after press R/L. I highly recommend making it the shoulder button you don't use to shield.
You aren't hitting them at the exact same time, just right after each other. Think about the time it takes to blink between the presses for most characters. Falco's is sliiiightly longer.
Also mix up what you practice. Try wavedashing for a bit, then move on to practicing short hopping consistently. Then practice SHL. Then practice short hop fast falls. Then back to wavedashing. Etc. Always try to L-cancel every aerial attack you do. If you miss it, try to repeat it again a few times to get a feeling for it. From full jumps, from short hops. Fastfalling, not fast falling. Hitting someone, not hitting someone. It just takes practice practice practice.
Edit: If you can do Fox but not Falco, then yes, you are hitting L too quickly.
Response:
I use X for jumping, easier on the hand + its what Im used to. I also use use the joystick at times, but mostly X. SH +FF has become a lot easier for me now, as I have 70-75% accuracy. When doing SH + FF+ laser I noticed Im a few frames too fast on the FF, as I'll hear Falco bring out his gun, but doesnt fire.
Should I continue to practice other characters? Or aim to perfect Falco for now? I noticed when I play I have to tell myself "short jump" as its not a reflex of mine yet.
I dont know when I actually hit the L-cancel. Hard for me to notice it. Is there a specific move/character that makes it more obvious?
Thanks in advance.
Also, the wavedashing guide at the following link is dead . Does anybody have another one?
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=42749
Thanks again
Gea:
Luigi is just mentioned because his goes the farthest, not because his timing is the best. Don't mash the L button, time it.
1. Pick a jump button you like. X or Y. I prefer Y.
2. Press jump
3. Almost immediately after press R/L. I highly recommend making it the shoulder button you don't use to shield.
You aren't hitting them at the exact same time, just right after each other. Think about the time it takes to blink between the presses for most characters. Falco's is sliiiightly longer.
Also mix up what you practice. Try wavedashing for a bit, then move on to practicing short hopping consistently. Then practice SHL. Then practice short hop fast falls. Then back to wavedashing. Etc. Always try to L-cancel every aerial attack you do. If you miss it, try to repeat it again a few times to get a feeling for it. From full jumps, from short hops. Fastfalling, not fast falling. Hitting someone, not hitting someone. It just takes practice practice practice.
Edit: If you can do Fox but not Falco, then yes, you are hitting L too quickly.
Response:
I use X for jumping, easier on the hand + its what Im used to. I also use use the joystick at times, but mostly X. SH +FF has become a lot easier for me now, as I have 70-75% accuracy. When doing SH + FF+ laser I noticed Im a few frames too fast on the FF, as I'll hear Falco bring out his gun, but doesnt fire.
Should I continue to practice other characters? Or aim to perfect Falco for now? I noticed when I play I have to tell myself "short jump" as its not a reflex of mine yet.
I dont know when I actually hit the L-cancel. Hard for me to notice it. Is there a specific move/character that makes it more obvious?
Thanks in advance.
Also, the wavedashing guide at the following link is dead . Does anybody have another one?
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=42749
Thanks again
so I've been practicing with Falco, and I noticed it is 10x easier to wave when you are short jumping. I started taking Gea's advice about mixing it up, and I started doing short jumps and trying the same thing.
something I noticed is sometimes Im sliding on the ground, while other times it looks as though Falco did a very tiny jump before sliding. Different moves? or same.
something I noticed is sometimes Im sliding on the ground, while other times it looks as though Falco did a very tiny jump before sliding. Different moves? or same.
Gea
Smash Master
Any really slow aerial is obvious when you L-cancel. Link's dair (downwards aerial) is pretty much the standard example. When you get the L-cancel down he pulls out his sword from the ground much faster. Also bowser's bair (back air) is really noticeable too. Eventually even moves that are sort of hard to tell will be easy for you to see. It's quite a big difference. Another trick is to just shield after the L cancel. Compare how fast it comes out to when you miss it. Better yet, try doing a shine (down B) after doing an aerial with Falco. You should be able to immediately do it if you L-canceled. If not, it is likely you missed the L-cancel. The more you play, the more obvious missing them becomes.
I would say don't feel too strange practicing basic tech (l cancels, wavelands, sh ffs) with other characters. This is especially useful for things like shffls (short hop, fast fall, L-cancels) because you need to be able to start the fastfall and l cancel from any height, so different characters can force you to consider this. Once it starts to solidify, focus more exclusively on Falco.
For short hopping, most people find it easier if they slide their finger off of the edge of the button. I really suggest learning to sh consistently with Fox since he has the hardest jump to. If you can with him, you can with anyone.
Also since you are fresh learning, it's time to think ahead and if you want to make any changes to what button you use for what, NOW is the time. Sure you can relearn later but it's much easier to get down what you like. Here are a few things to consider:
- It is useful to use a different trigger for shielding than wavedashing. Sometimes you want to be able to wavedash out of your shield without dropping it, and using separate triggers makes this easier.
- You can L-cancel with R, L, and Z.
- You can do aerials with A, Z, and the C stick. Most people recommend learning the C-stick for most aerials, upairs in particular. This will help you be able to fastfall and uair (up air) at the same time and cut the risk of using your double jump.
- If you want to get REALLY technical later on, it will require getting from B to a jump pretty fast. This is doable by all methods of jumping (X, Y, control stick) but some are seen as slightly easier than others. Just keep it in mind if you feel like getting from X to B is really awkward. There is nothing wrong with using X if it is comfortable to you.
Edit: Those are the same moves. What you are seeing is you doing the wavedash slightly too slowly, so you are actually leaving the ground then airdodging back into it. This is pretty normal when starting out, so just try to keep at it. Do them forward and backwards. Eventually you'll be able to control how far you'll go. Then you can start dashing then immediately doing them for even more distance. How long you hold the jump button down has no bearing on wavedashes. Fullhop or shorthops make no difference since you are immediately canceling the jump into the airdodge.
I would say don't feel too strange practicing basic tech (l cancels, wavelands, sh ffs) with other characters. This is especially useful for things like shffls (short hop, fast fall, L-cancels) because you need to be able to start the fastfall and l cancel from any height, so different characters can force you to consider this. Once it starts to solidify, focus more exclusively on Falco.
For short hopping, most people find it easier if they slide their finger off of the edge of the button. I really suggest learning to sh consistently with Fox since he has the hardest jump to. If you can with him, you can with anyone.
Also since you are fresh learning, it's time to think ahead and if you want to make any changes to what button you use for what, NOW is the time. Sure you can relearn later but it's much easier to get down what you like. Here are a few things to consider:
- It is useful to use a different trigger for shielding than wavedashing. Sometimes you want to be able to wavedash out of your shield without dropping it, and using separate triggers makes this easier.
- You can L-cancel with R, L, and Z.
- You can do aerials with A, Z, and the C stick. Most people recommend learning the C-stick for most aerials, upairs in particular. This will help you be able to fastfall and uair (up air) at the same time and cut the risk of using your double jump.
- If you want to get REALLY technical later on, it will require getting from B to a jump pretty fast. This is doable by all methods of jumping (X, Y, control stick) but some are seen as slightly easier than others. Just keep it in mind if you feel like getting from X to B is really awkward. There is nothing wrong with using X if it is comfortable to you.
Edit: Those are the same moves. What you are seeing is you doing the wavedash slightly too slowly, so you are actually leaving the ground then airdodging back into it. This is pretty normal when starting out, so just try to keep at it. Do them forward and backwards. Eventually you'll be able to control how far you'll go. Then you can start dashing then immediately doing them for even more distance. How long you hold the jump button down has no bearing on wavedashes. Fullhop or shorthops make no difference since you are immediately canceling the jump into the airdodge.
I read my timing is supposed to be within the last 14frames of landing. Any preferred spot? ( L-cancel)
L-cancelling is also supposed to decrease lagtime after attacks right? I cant just cancel a move at the beginning/midway through it can I?
shield and Lcancel are the same button. I noticed when Lmashing I was throwing a lot, and I was spinning in ways Ive never seen Falco spin before (after getting hit and while getting hit)
How does height affect the L-cancel? Im timing it against the floor no? FF Im just pressing down, so that shouldnt be affected by height either.. unless Im missing something?
Thats exactly what I was doing in regards to SH. I was using the left side of the X button.
How do I change my buttons? Am I allowed to have different button setup for tournys (assuming I ever get to that level). I would set L-cancel to L, shield set to R and Z as throw. I already use them like this, even though they are not exclusively set.
I actually rarely use the C stick. My reflexes are pretty decent with A, and I enjoy being able to control how long Im holding the smash for. My Marth opponent on the other hand does the opposite. He had no idea that he could smash with the A button until 2weeks ago, as he has always been using the Cstick
Im not following this post:
- If you want to get REALLY technical later on, it will require getting from B to a jump pretty fast. This is doable by all methods of jumping (X, Y, control stick) but some are seen as slightly easier than others. Just keep it in mind if you feel like getting from X to B is really awkward. There is nothing wrong with using X if it is comfortable to you.
Do you mean changing the jump button? When I was learning SH I was thinking about using L/R as it would be easier to control if you could SH to different heights. However I think Im getting the hang of it
I think for people beginning advanced techniques doing SH is easier since your finger is getting off the jump button quicker and your reflexes say to do something else. In the first 10-20min of learning about the SH, I was doing Falco's down B attack more often than anything else. It was getting annoying so I had to slow down. Finding the right pace is key.
L-cancelling is also supposed to decrease lagtime after attacks right? I cant just cancel a move at the beginning/midway through it can I?
shield and Lcancel are the same button. I noticed when Lmashing I was throwing a lot, and I was spinning in ways Ive never seen Falco spin before (after getting hit and while getting hit)
How does height affect the L-cancel? Im timing it against the floor no? FF Im just pressing down, so that shouldnt be affected by height either.. unless Im missing something?
Thats exactly what I was doing in regards to SH. I was using the left side of the X button.
How do I change my buttons? Am I allowed to have different button setup for tournys (assuming I ever get to that level). I would set L-cancel to L, shield set to R and Z as throw. I already use them like this, even though they are not exclusively set.
I actually rarely use the C stick. My reflexes are pretty decent with A, and I enjoy being able to control how long Im holding the smash for. My Marth opponent on the other hand does the opposite. He had no idea that he could smash with the A button until 2weeks ago, as he has always been using the Cstick
Im not following this post:
- If you want to get REALLY technical later on, it will require getting from B to a jump pretty fast. This is doable by all methods of jumping (X, Y, control stick) but some are seen as slightly easier than others. Just keep it in mind if you feel like getting from X to B is really awkward. There is nothing wrong with using X if it is comfortable to you.
Do you mean changing the jump button? When I was learning SH I was thinking about using L/R as it would be easier to control if you could SH to different heights. However I think Im getting the hang of it
I think for people beginning advanced techniques doing SH is easier since your finger is getting off the jump button quicker and your reflexes say to do something else. In the first 10-20min of learning about the SH, I was doing Falco's down B attack more often than anything else. It was getting annoying so I had to slow down. Finding the right pace is key.
Gea
Smash Master
Angle of the joystick. Rolls and wavedashes are used for different things. You should never roll just to move around, and you can be hit out of a wavedash.
Also, uair = up aerial, dair = down, nair = neutral, uair = up, fair = forward. B moves cannot be l-canceled and people will usually call B moves by what they are (or just direction + B). So like up B to get back to the stage, side b. Or they will say firebird / illusion.
As for the rest of your questions, you have some misconceptions...
If you don't know what something means here is a pretty good list of smash lingo, along with some links to a few other tutorials or explanations.
Also, uair = up aerial, dair = down, nair = neutral, uair = up, fair = forward. B moves cannot be l-canceled and people will usually call B moves by what they are (or just direction + B). So like up B to get back to the stage, side b. Or they will say firebird / illusion.
As for the rest of your questions, you have some misconceptions...
- You l-cancel right before hitting the ground. You can l-cancel any time during an aerial's animation, but you have to be at the ground to do so.
- L-canceling does decrease lag after doing an attack.
- You cannot change what buttons do on the face of your controller. However, many buttons overlap in functionality. I am saying that it is a good idea to not use the same button for both shielding and wavedashing. As in if you use L to shield, use R to wavedash. You don't have to set any options to be able to do this, it is just a good habit to keep.
- You cannot fastfall until you are at the apex of your jump. So at the height of either your fullhop or shorthop, press down. You can press down during an aerial to fastfall; the only requirement is that you have reached the apex of your jump.
- When referring previously to learning the c-stick, I meant for aerials. Using the C-stick in the air allows you to move forward while attacking backwards, or fastfall while doing an uair more easily. It also allows you to do a dair without accidentally fastfalling. The C-stick should be used for certain smashes when you don't want to charge AT ALL, otherwise using A is fine.
- I meant that you can choose between using X, Y, or the control stick for jumping. They all jump. Later on you'll be doing things like multi-shines, which requires some fairly quick movement from jump to B back to jump. While any control method can be used, it is worth keeping in mind that this will one day be relevant, so pick whatever method of jumping is most comfortable for you.
If you don't know what something means here is a pretty good list of smash lingo, along with some links to a few other tutorials or explanations.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
you stick tech during asdi not sdi. sdi gets you close to the floor, but you can't collide with it until you start flying. not the case for wall and ceilings tho.
edit: I meant sdi in the last post, sorry.
Mr Wizzrobe
Smash Journeyman
What's the best way to practice ledge-teching on your own? I've been trying with Link and a bomb but it hasn't been working out.
Maybe I'm just doing it wrong.
Maybe I'm just doing it wrong.
Fortress | Sveet
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go into training mode and place proxy mines on the edge and upb into it
Mr Wizzrobe
Smash Journeyman
And in order to ledgetech you have to SDI toward the ledge and then press R/L right?
Fortress | Sveet
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Usually you press L/R before you're hit, as an option select, and no SDI isn't mandatory but it helps to make you touch the wall.
Mr Wizzrobe
Smash Journeyman
Alright thanks
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
Random and asked for no other reason than curiosity, but if you were to pause during a match when the opponent is flying towards a star KO; do you have to forfeit that stock? First of all, would the opponent to be able to say you must and if so, would most people do it if it were to not effect the actual game in the slightest.
I wouldn't do this but when I'm playing alone I like to pause half way through jiggs' taunt during a star ko to have a close up of her derp face if you time it right after she winks.
I wouldn't do this but when I'm playing alone I like to pause half way through jiggs' taunt during a star ko to have a close up of her derp face if you time it right after she winks.
In a small tournament, it won't happen. Because not even your opponent gives a **** then.
In a large tournament, TO has the power to DQ you, sure. But they won't, and if they try to, likely some sort of crowd riot would occur and then they would literally be murdered in their beds the next night
In a large tournament, TO has the power to DQ you, sure. But they won't, and if they try to, likely some sort of crowd riot would occur and then they would literally be murdered in their beds the next night
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
If i'm correct the penalty for pausing the first time is just a stock right? So theoretically, if you're both on your 3rd stock, you're at 140% and he's offstage at 5%, you could pause to kill him (probably only work on Ness) and even the playing field. Pausing OP.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
iirc, it happened in brawl at a tournament. logic vs judo i believe. it was a situation in which judo paused, but he couldn't have even killed himself in time to lose the match. he was still DQ'd for pausing. either that, or they replayed the match, instead of letting judo win the match. and then logic won the replay lol.
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
I'm taking about during a Star KO, where they are already dead and can't respawn until they fly all the way into the horizon. So it's really nothing other than a nuisance/time waster.
That sucks, I can understand him having ot lose a stock fo rit, that's the rule...but if he was going to win inevitably then DQing him is just a ***** move. How did it happen, did he do it while th eother was trying to recover and messed them up or was there literally no way for them to return while on their last stock while judo still had 2 or more stocks?
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Final response:
Yes the rule can be enforced and you can be forced to lose a stock no matter when or why you paused. To my knowledge nobody in the melee community has ever enforced this (except maybe in teams).
Yes the rule can be enforced and you can be forced to lose a stock no matter when or why you paused. To my knowledge nobody in the melee community has ever enforced this (except maybe in teams).
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
all i know is that judo got a sheiks tippered usmash, and before logic died, judo paused. i think they were both last stock.
_eternal
Smash Apprentice
How do people pronounce IASA? It's a long acronym but "eye-***-ah" sounds kinda weird.
EDIT: kinda obvious what the bleep is supposed to be lol
EDIT: kinda obvious what the bleep is supposed to be lol
Fortress | Sveet
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i just say interrupt frames if im talking 1-1
Gea
Smash Master
I just say "Isai frames" because why not.
Pyronic_Star
Smash Champion
courtesy of name search
i was hit with he first hit of tippered up-smash (it's a 2 hit move) he pressed pause, we were both at last stock. he unpaused, i got hit with the 2nd hit and preceded to die but since he paused he lost a stock and i won. the controversy came from people sayig that i would not have sdi'd the first hit to avoid the 2nd and people saying your guaranteed to die at i believe 93% is what i was at.
i was hit with he first hit of tippered up-smash (it's a 2 hit move) he pressed pause, we were both at last stock. he unpaused, i got hit with the 2nd hit and preceded to die but since he paused he lost a stock and i won. the controversy came from people sayig that i would not have sdi'd the first hit to avoid the 2nd and people saying your guaranteed to die at i believe 93% is what i was at.
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
Nah, that kind of pausing is definitely wrong. I thought it was like what I was asking, pausing when there is a 100% chance of losing a stock, if it's even possible to sdi no mater the chances it's wrong to pause. I was thinking the dilemma was more along the lines of being to far to recover and he paused.
v4extreme
Smash Journeyman
Can fox tech falco's down throw?
_eternal
Smash Apprentice
Is there a drawing of the borders of the tournament-legal stages? Borders meaning the part at which you'd die, not just the part that's normally visible to the camera. I feel like I've seen a set of pictures like this before but I don't remember where.
Or, failing that, do any of the stages have weird off-screen shapes that you wouldn't expect, like how FoD apparently has a really high ceiling even though its horizontal borders are normal?
Or, failing that, do any of the stages have weird off-screen shapes that you wouldn't expect, like how FoD apparently has a really high ceiling even though its horizontal borders are normal?
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
all I know is that they are called blast zones.
at higher percents you can asdi down the lasers from the throw and they will knock you down, in which you can tech. normally fox recovers first tho, u can punish with shine if ur still close enough.
at higher percents you can asdi down the lasers from the throw and they will knock you down, in which you can tech. normally fox recovers first tho, u can punish with shine if ur still close enough.
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
I don't think you'll see anything other than a box or rectangle. Game would be broken with diamond shaped blast zones lol