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[Pi]

can't grounded shine OoS

 

[Strong Badam]

What do you mean by that?

 

[Pi]

uhhh
you can't cancel ur jump animation with shine
so ur shine is always going to be aerial

 

[Bl@ckChris]

...then how does double shine work?

i'm pretty sure you can grounded shine oos...

 

[Dark Hart]

yea lol you can def grounded shine oos

 

[Pi]

you jump
then you shine in the air
then you fall and touch the ground
then you jump OoS

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i've heard stories that eggm only knows how to grounded shine oos, so he can't shine->bair oos cause he's always grounded lol.

 

[Xyzz]

@Pi:
It's possible to jump twice after a grounded shine out of shield. That is only possible by starting from the ground; if the shine was midair we'd use the doublejump to cancel it and didn't have another avaible.
If you can't get it to work, ask StrongBad or someother AR / General frame stuff Guru

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Pi is trolling you guys so hard right now lololol

 

[Bl@ckChris]

hmm...so you can shine so low to the ground that it puts you back on the ground...

is there some sort of landing lag associated with a shine oos then? i guess that's what makes waveshine oos so hard?

edit: looool sorta got me.

 

[Xyzz]

Well played, sir. Well played.

I usually don't fall for that stuff, so should I ever get to America, you're invited to a beer

 

[john!]

is this the part where pi realizes that he's wrong and pretends to have been trolling the whole time?

is he even wrong, by the way? has someone tested that you can shine on the frames before you jump?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Pi is technically right. You can't cancel your jump with the shine. Instead you shine on the first frame you are airborne, before any momentum has been applied, and you are then immediately grounded. A similar thing happens with a perfect wavedash. You never appear to be in the air, though the game technically thinks you are since you can't cancel the jump animation with an airdodge.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

...then my question still applies...like i thought it might...

is there some sort of landing lag associated with a shine oos then? i guess that's what makes waveshine oos so hard?

 

[Pi]

i wasn't trolling, i was right
but i'll still take that beer
i don't even troll ever


process for multi shine:

Fox:
Jump
Jump
Jump
Shine
Shine-Land
Jump
Jump
Jump
Shine
Shine-land

or something like that if u do it frame perfect

the shine is technically airborne though, read as an aerial attack, because you can only do it from the air in this instance

idk about the landing lag question, if you know how 'shine landing' works then it's probably the same thing

i'm gonna say no though, cause that would make multi shining way more usless if u had to go through 4 frames of landing lag, then 3 frames of jump back to back

 

[Bl@ckChris]

so i guess if you input the shine too early, you'll just jump...makes sense.

does anyone know if there's multiple frames that an apparent grounded shine oos can happen, or does it have to be frame perfect? cause eventually i want to be able to waveshine oos consistently, cause that just seems like an amazing way to break a combo and start your own, but if that initial "grounded" shine oos has to be perfect then guhhhhh i'll need practice lol

 

[Xyzz]

Frame perfect. You can't input before, since you'd just jump (as you pointed out), and if you are one frame later, you aren't grounded anymore.

@Pi: Fair enough, you seem like a cool person anyways

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i wasn't trolling, i was right
but i'll still take that beer
i don't even troll ever

yeah but it still did make me laugh

 

[sirlaser]

The Brawl forums has an interesting thread. Does any of what they described there apply to Melee? Thanks.

 

[Pi]

yeah but it still did make me laugh

=|
too bad i can't get laughs when i'm actually going for them

 

[Strong Badam]

lol yeah you land on the frame you leave the ground much like wavedashing so it's kind of pointless to say you enter the air if you do a shine on frame 4

 

[Pi]

the main thing i was thinking about was that it wouldn't be able to clank?
since aerials can't clank ? or is shine unique in that regard?

 

[Strong Badam]

Specials aren't considered aerials.

 

[Pi]

buuuut i know shine clanksss but i don't think i've ever seen it clank w/ something while it's aerial

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

hmm that is actually a really good question. I dont have my external set up yet, maybe i'll check tomorrow. My hypothesis is that no, it won't clank.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i've seen doubleshines clank though...wouldn't the second one have to be "aerial"?

or maybe they only clank with other shines...

 

[Italis]

Random question. im trying to be a better pikachu player lol and was wondering if pikachu's dair was any good

 

[Xyzz]

For questions like this, you're usually better off in the character specific subforums, higher concentration of people really knowing stuff about your character there (especially since Pikachu mains aren't too common ), even Axe posts there!

 

[Xebenkeck]

So can someone tell how to correctly usmash OoS, i've been trying to figure it out by myself but can figure it out.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

up on control stick, up on cstick.

thats how i do it.

 

[mers]

Grounded shine can clank. Aerial shine cannot, which means shine OOS (even perfect) cannot clank.

However, aerial shine can appear to clank because it gives one frame of invincibility. This requires that the hitbox that hits you be disjointed, otherwise the shine will protect you while hitting the opponent.

Interestingly enough, since shine does so little damage and also is usually fairly stale, many of the times that shine is clanking on the ground it's really losing a trade (as it does 7/8/9/whatever percent less than the other move), it's just that even though it loses, the shine invincibility prevents you from being hit.

(When two moves that differ by more than 7/8/9/whatever percent clank, the clank noise still happens but the stronger move wins. But you already knew that).

 

[Xyzz]

So can someone tell how to correctly usmash OoS, i've been trying to figure it out by myself but can figure it out.

If doing double stick upsmash oos is somehow not appealing to you (I think almost everybody does it that way, since the following way will usually just add a chance to screw up), you'll have to be careful to let go of shield after you jump and before you hit a, else you will cancel the jump with a grab.
Summing it up: a) move control stick upwards, b) release L / R Trigger, c) hit a before you leave the ground.

 

[Pachinkosam]

up on control stick, up on cstick.

thats how i do it.

you said it

 

[john!]

looks like i'm the only one that uses a instead of the c-stick to usmash oos

 

[Geenareeno]

I do double stick for OoS but Up+A for running U-Smash.

 

[S l o X]

can you buffer get up attack?

the falcon boards are terrible. someone answer this question, thanks (:

 

[Pi]

from the ledge or from a missed tech? missed tech i think buffers for a small window, or if you mean from a jab reset or something u can just hold A during the jab if it's not true

 

[S l o X]

the same way you can buffer role from techs. (and how*)

 

[Warhawk]

I use a for up-smash OoS too, up on both sticks just feels weird to me for up-smash OoS even if it is better.

 

[Pi]

the same way you can buffer role from techs. (and how*)

well afaik you can't buffer rolls from missed techs any other way than pre-positioning the control stick for the roll

in which case the same would be true for getup attacks

but i also am fairly certain that getup attacks will buffer for a small window before you actually perform the roll/getup attack/standup normally action

so that's why if you're trying to do something that involvest he a or b button, and you get forced into a tech scenerio, you'll get up attack instead of the action you most recently presseed